Omar ibn al Khattab and Abu Jahl

[Brahim]

Salam brothers and Sisters, I had a question. I have seen in a couple lectures by Sayed Ammar that Omar use to torture the early Muslims and he has said it's in the books of history. He's brought this up while talking about Ammar Ibn Yassir's parents. I don't doubt this about Omar, but can anyone show me proof? Shukran

[ShiaMan14]

1 hour ago, Brahim said:

Salam brothers and Sisters, I had a question. I have seen in a couple lectures by Sayed Ammar that Omar use to torture the early Muslims and he has said it's in the books of history. He's brought this up while talking about Ammar Ibn Yassir's parents. I don't doubt this about Omar, but can anyone show me proof? Shukran

Salaam,

You can watch the series "Umar" which is a biopic on Caliph Umar made in Saudi Arabia. He is shown to be one of the foremost in tormenting the Muslims.

Please be sure to read my blog on him as well. Link in my signature.

[Brahim]

Shukran akhi. Very good analysis. I look forward to reading your other blogs.

[Husayni]

Umar was known to be a violent man. Before becoming Muslim, he hit/beat his sister so much that she began bleeding, because she became Muslim and was reciting Qur'an with her husband. Umar also yelled, when the prophet died, "Anyone who says the prophet has passed away, will be beheaded by me! For verily he is alive, not dead."

Umar was also documented to have hit his female servants many times.

 

[Ashvazdanghe]

17 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

You can watch the series "Umar" which is a biopic on Caliph Umar made in Saudi Arabia

Salam in this serial they make a very positive Image of him ,in reality he was WORSER than that they shown .

[ShiaMan14]

9 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam in this serial they make a very positive Image of him ,in reality he was WORSER than that they shown .

I agree. But they do show how anti-Muslim he was. Read my blog brother.

Edited April 22, 2018 by ShiaMan14

[Panzerwaffe]

Hitting female servants ? Maybe they deserved it 

We don't know the context , God knows best 

[ShiaMan14]

49 minutes ago, Panzerwaffe said:

Hitting female servants ? Maybe they deserved it 

We don't know the context , God knows best 

Lol. I guess his sister deserved it too.

On 4/21/2018 at 8:14 PM, Hussaini624 said:

Umar was known to be a violent man. Before becoming Muslim, he hit/beat his sister so much that she began bleeding, because she became Muslim and was reciting Qur'an with her husband. Umar also yelled, when the prophet died, "Anyone who says the prophet has passed away, will be beheaded by me! For verily he is alive, not dead."

Umar was also documented to have hit his female servants many times.

 

Don't forget his vehement protest at the Peace Treaty of Hudaibiya and denying/questioning the Prophethood of Muhammad (saw).

[wmehar2]

why was he granted power and station in the prophets lifetime? 

If he was the way you describe ?  Why was he able to come into power or able to acquire it if he was not among the companions?

Nothing adds up 

[Husayni]

3 hours ago, wmehar2 said:

why was he granted power and station in the prophets lifetime? 

If he was the way you describe ?  Why was he able to come into power or able to acquire it if he was not among the companions?

Nothing adds up 

It's actually simple. Abu Bakr was the caliph, and before he died, he made Umar the caliph.

[Ashvazdanghe]

4 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

Hitting female servants ? Maybe they deserved it 

We don't know the context , God knows best 

Salam Umar was so terrifying person which recorded in history one time a pregnant woman when heard he comes to her house her unborn child died in her womb from his fear. 

[Ashvazdanghe]

3 hours ago, wmehar2 said:

why was he granted power and station in the prophets lifetime? 

If he was the way you describe ?  Why was he able to come into power or able to acquire it if he was not among the companions?

Nothing adds up 

Salam he was unpopular among people becuse of his rude behavior to the others but Abubakr was a popular person & by his support nobody except few people can't stands against them.

[wmehar2]

6 hours ago, Hussaini624 said:

It's actually simple. Abu Bakr was the caliph, and before he died, he made Umar the caliph.

stands to reason Abu Bakr wouldn't put someone unpopular as Caliph especially someone he's had disagreements with  (over Khalid ibn Walids crimes).

Still doesnt make sense. 

[Ashvazdanghe]

54 minutes ago, wmehar2 said:

stands to reason Abu Bakr wouldn't put someone unpopular as Caliph especially someone he's had disagreements with  (over Khalid ibn Walids crimes).

Still doesnt make sense. 

Salam because Abubakr was in debt to Umar for his caliphate also people afraid from Umar too much because of his brute rudeness thus after him the caliphate after him would remain intact but Khalid Ibn Walid had a group of enemies against himself & he wasn’t strong enough to stand against them.

Edited April 23, 2018 by Ashvazdanghe

[Brahim]

On 4/22/2018 at 9:11 PM, wmehar2 said:

why was he granted power and station in the prophets lifetime? 

If he was the way you describe ?  Why was he able to come into power or able to acquire it if he was not among the companions?

Nothing adds up 

What power was he granted in the prophet's lifetime? Were you asking how he actually came to power or are you asking why Allan سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى would permit a ruler like him from a pre- destination point of view? I know Sunnis have a different view of free will vs. pre destination than us. When I talked to Sunnis in the past, it's like they can't believe we disassociate from Omar because they believe Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى wouldn't of allowed him or the other caliphs to rule if it wasn't meant to be.

[DIYA-HAQUE]

Why must we Muslims per say talk ill about Companions of Prophet in the first place? Umar or who, during his caliphate, can anyone of us talking ill about him achieve what he has achieve for Islam. Why must we concentrate on certain issues when muslims in other part of the world is dying because of attacks. Must we not show love to each other. Why must we fold our legs and sit down and talk ill about companions and not talk much about Attacks on muslims in other part of the world? 

This is a shame on our part and Allah will judge each and everyone of us on that....

16 hours ago, Brahim said:

 

[Panzerwaffe]

Brothers 

I think umar was neither as awful a person as 12er shias claim neither a saint or pseudo prophet as Sunnis claim 

He had his pros and cons,  he was certainly 1000 times better than Othman 

Certainly a lot of merits are exaggerated by Sunnis as they had a vested interest  similarly later 12ers shias have presented him as the devil incarnate as he is perceived as the primary reason why Ali didn't get the caliphate 

Truth is most likely somewhere in between but since the most partisan sources are backed by the scholars on either side we will most likely never know 100 % truth  

Edited April 24, 2018 by Panzerwaffe

[Panzerwaffe]

On 4/23/2018 at 6:30 AM, wmehar2 said:

stands to reason Abu Bakr wouldn't put someone unpopular as Caliph especially someone he's had disagreements with  (over Khalid ibn Walids crimes).

Still doesnt make sense. 

More importantly abu bakr disagreed with umars policy of sabiqa and distribution of stipends 

[Panzerwaffe]

On 4/22/2018 at 9:04 PM, ShiaMan14 said:

Lol. I guess his sister deserved it too.

Don't forget his vehement protest at the Peace Treaty of Hudaibiya and denying/questioning the Prophethood of Muhammad (saw).

Its the same way hujr b adi protested against Hasan when armistice with muawiyah was reached 

I think umars greatest crime is his treatment of saad b ubadah

[ShiaMan14]

3 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

Its the same way hujr b adi protested against Hasan when armistice with muawiyah was reached 

I think umars greatest crime is his treatment of saad b ubadah

Hujr Bin Adi is irrelevant in the annals of history.

Caliph Umar openly questioned the Prophethood of Muhammad (saw).

[DIYA-HAQUE]

please Brother in Islam, What is your greatest crime? You

[Panzerwaffe]

5 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Hujr Bin Adi is irrelevant in the annals of history.

Caliph Umar openly questioned the Prophethood of Muhammad (saw).

Context is the same 

Hujr is not irrelevant,  it was his martyrdom that is one of the 4 top reasons why muawiyah and ummayyad are considered tyrants 

[Ashvazdanghe]

13 hours ago, DIYA-HAQUE said:

Why must we Muslims per say talk ill about Companions of Prophet in the first place? Umar or who, during his caliphate, can anyone of us talking ill about him achieve what he has achieve for Islam. Why must we concentrate on certain issues when muslims in other part of the world is dying because of attacks. Must we not show love to each other. Why must we fold our legs and sit down and talk ill about companions and not talk much about Attacks on muslims in other part of the world? 

This is a shame on our part and Allah will judge each and everyone of us on that....

We don’t have too much problem with Sunni Muslim bro & Sis it was mainly just was place of discussion between scholars but in recent years Wahabist by support of Saud Family make shias as boogeyman by make it a public issue in order to Muslim community doesn’t care about their corruption & their alliance with Zionists.

[ShiaMan14]

7 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

Context is the same 

Hujr is not irrelevant,  it was his martyrdom that is one of the 4 top reasons why muawiyah and ummayyad are considered tyrants 

Nope. They are considered tyrants because they were. Siffin, Kerbala???

[Brahim]

I'm sorry if my post made people angry. I just couldn't find the hadith he was one of the killers of Ammar Ibn Yassir's parents. I didn't call him any derogatory names or anything. however, I do not respect him at all, nor feel a need too. I'm not going to try hide any feelings I have especially when me and I'm sure 90 percent of my fellow brothers and sisters are constantly accused of using taqiya either to mock or discredit us. If you look up "Shia" on the internet they use muta and taqiya in articles as part of are main difference besides Imamate, which they can barely define right half the time.

[Panzerwaffe]

On 4/24/2018 at 9:17 PM, ShiaMan14 said:

Nope. They are considered tyrants because they were. Siffin, Kerbala???

Hujr is before karbala 

And his extra judicial murder explodes the myth that Jamal or within were in revenge of uthman murder