Sharing expenses

[Almuslimah]

Assalaamu aleykom! This is just something that I have been thinking, so this following case is just example. I'll straight to the bisness:

There is a muslim woman and man, they are married and live together. Husband works and is financially stable. Couple is living in european country ,where the wife (since not working) , is receiving social benefit money that is notably smaller than husbands salary. They dont have children. They are living in rental apartment. 

Husband has a good salary from work. Husband has started to ask wife to pay from her social money half of rent. What do you think? Is it fair from husband to ask this? In my opinion it isnt since husband is obligated to provide and wife already might be buying from her own money some food and her own clothing. 

It would be nice to receive both men and women opinions here. Jazakallah khair

[2Timeless]

In my opinion, I think it's fair to a certain extent. 

Firstly, why is the wife not working? If she didn't want to work simply because She didn't want to and expected the husband to pay for all living expenses, I think that's very unfair. 

If the wife has a disability or illness hat prevents her from working, then maybe the husband should be a little more considerate. If the benefits the wife is receiving are more than enough for her to pay for necessities I think it's fair for the husband to ask the wife to contribute some of her allowance to the household.

[Abu Nur]

In our household we only have one income and we do not have any sharing. With the same money we pay the rent, buy food, baby stuff and clothing. 

[Abu Hadi]

From a Hukm Sharia point of view, no he cannot demand that his wife share the expenses with him. She is not obligated to do this under Sharia. He is obligated to provide for the family. At the same time, if she does this out of her own free will, with the niyyat(intention) of helping her husband and being generous to her family, there is no problem with it, Islamically. 

[Ani]

It is only the husbands duty to pay for all the expenses.it is his responsibility.The wife has the right to her husband's money and if the wife earns she doesn't owe anything to her husband.

If the wife doesn't wanna share her money and is saving then it's wrong if the husband orders her or even asks her to pay for anything if he is able to do everything on his own with his money.

But i think if there is love and understanding and the woman willingly wants to share every expense then it's all right. Because if it's a happy marriage then there is no such thing as my money or your money.

[Almuslimah]

I totally agree with you @Abu Hadi and @Ani.

[Ron_Burgundy]

On 4/21/2018 at 4:30 AM, Almuslimah said:

Couple is living in european country ,where the wife (since not working) , is receiving social benefit money that is notably smaller than husbands salary.

First of all why would you take money from government if your husband has decent income? Why?

[notme]

A husband is obligated to provide for his wife.  It's disgraceful that he's letting the government support her instead of doing it himself.  A man with dignity would support his wife so she doesn't need government assistance.

[Akbar673]

On 4/21/2018 at 3:30 AM, Almuslimah said:

There is a muslim woman and man, they are married and live together.

If they are married then the Husband has taken the wife in trust from her family. As such he is responsible for her and has to do his best to provide her with a respectable lifestyle. However, if the wife wishes to join in the expenses she may do so.

On 4/21/2018 at 3:30 AM, Almuslimah said:

Husband works and is financially stable.

Well, that's a broad definition. What one considers stable another might not. Do the wife and husband share the same definition?

On 4/21/2018 at 3:30 AM, Almuslimah said:

where the wife (since not working) , is receiving social benefit money that is notably smaller than husbands salary.

If the wife wishes then she may voluntarily contribute to the household expenses. She is not required to but practically speaking if the couple have some financial goals they wish to meet (i.e. buying property or saving for some other halal goal) then reasonably speaking her contributing to it would be a benefit to all. Its part of being a team as a married couple.

On 4/21/2018 at 3:30 AM, Almuslimah said:

Husband has a good salary from work. Husband has started to ask wife to pay from her social money half of rent. What do you think?

Again, see above. As her husband he is tasked with being the provider and being responsible for providing a respectable home and lifestyle. The wife can voluntarily offer the money if she wishes. This again ties back to what the definition being used for good salary is. It also depends on the lifestyle and spending habits of the couple. If he's earning well but the couple is spending more than they should then perhaps the wife (using a practical approach) could help with the expenses.

On 4/21/2018 at 3:30 AM, Almuslimah said:

Is it fair from husband to ask this?

He can not demand it from her. She can volunteer it if she so wishes.

In a nutshell this all comes down to teamwork. If both the husband and the wife have a practical approach to life and their expenses coupled with some financial goal in mind then for the woman to contribute would be of a benefit to everyone involved. However, if the husband is just asking her to pay half for no greater reason than other than the fact that she has money coming in then she is not obligated to contribute.

[حسين]

@Ron_Burgundy people who come from outside of the u.k. to live in the u.k. do this. Lots of people I knew in the United Kingdom do this. The husband is a tax evader, generally, so that the wife and kids can get extra money.

They generally call it "outsmarting the government."

[Ron_Burgundy]

44 minutes ago, حسين said:

They generally call it "outsmarting the government."

This is called cheating and it is haram.

[Ron_Burgundy]

47 minutes ago, حسين said:

@Ron_Burgundy people who come from outside of the u.k. to live in the u.k. do this. Lots of people I knew in the United Kingdom do this. The husband is a tax evader, generally, so that the wife and kids can get extra money.

They generally call it "outsmarting the government."

Q198: Is it permissible for a Muslim to provide incorrect information to government agencies in Europe to obtain through legal channels privileges and financial or non-financial facilities?

A: That is not permissible for it constitutes lying and for whatever has been mentioned, there is no justification for that.

[حسين]

@Ron_Burgundy I know it fully well is a form of lying.

You asked why is she getting money if her husband earns a lot, from experience and through the knowledge that I've gained. I gave the presumptuous answer based on experience, which may be a  logical answer to your question.

The Muslims who I questioned as to why they do what they do, they simply answered to me "It's not haram, we're only outsmarting the government to what is rightfully ours."

 

[Almuslimah]

Thanks for your opinions. Guys, this was just question. I just wanted to hear your opinions. I am not living in this kind of situation at all but someone I know is. 

In the country this is happening goverment is legally obligated to give monthly money for the one who is not working even his/her spouse would have salary, of course in that case the nonworking spouse gets smaller ammount of money since the government calcutates spouses income and their expenses together. That money is for ones basic needs. Its european country (non islamic country), so they dont fully expect ones spouse to alone pay from his/hers salary all familys living costs. Also if they would have children, those children also would receive own money starting from day they were born until they become 17 years old. This "childmoney" is norm here and is automatically provided to you no matter if you work or no. 

I didnt come here to talk about doing any haram or to upset anyone.  I just wanted to hear some opinions about case where husband doesnt want to provide fully for his wife even he could. 

I am sorry to hear about situation in uk and I totally agree it being haram to wrong use the system and lie. This Couple i was talking about is not telling lies to coverment since their marriage is registered and they officially live together. Also husband is officially working and pays tax and coverment knows about his salary and every month before they pay wife the money they want receipts from both of their bank accounts to calcutate does wife need financial support anymore. 

I havent asked her why she is every month applying for money from coverment. Maybe because her husband is demanting her to pay half of the rent and she doesnt know even language of the country (cant find job and dont have education --> has only income from government). I think husband is wrong because he is islamicly obligated to provide for her. Also if he would provide for her she wouldnt need to apply every month for government money.

[Almuslimah]

4 hours ago, notme said:

A husband is obligated to provide for his wife.  It's disgraceful that he's letting the government support her instead of doing it himself.  A man with dignity would support his wife so she doesn't need government assistance.

exactly!!

[Abu Hadi]

2 hours ago, Almuslimah said:

Thanks for your opinions. Guys, this was just question. I just wanted to hear your opinions. I am not living in this kind of situation at all but someone I know is. 

In the country this is happening goverment is legally obligated to give monthly money for the one who is not working even his/her spouse would have salary, of course in that case the nonworking spouse gets smaller ammount of money since the government calcutates spouses income and their expenses together. That money is for ones basic needs. Its european country (non islamic country), so they dont fully expect ones spouse to alone pay from his/hers salary all familys living costs. Also if they would have children, those children also would receive own money starting from day they were born until they become 17 years old. This "childmoney" is norm here and is automatically provided to you no matter if you work or no. 

I didnt come here to talk about doing any haram or to upset anyone.  I just wanted to hear some opinions about case where husband doesnt want to provide fully for his wife even he could. 

I am sorry to hear about situation in uk and I totally agree it being haram to wrong use the system and lie. This Couple i was talking about is not telling lies to coverment since their marriage is registered and they officially live together. Also husband is officially working and pays tax and coverment knows about his salary and every month before they pay wife the money they want receipts from both of their bank accounts to calcutate does wife need financial support anymore. 

I havent asked her why she is every month applying for money from coverment. Maybe because her husband is demanting her to pay half of the rent and she doesnt know even language of the country (cant find job and dont have education --> has only income from government). I think husband is wrong because he is islamicly obligated to provide for her. Also if he would provide for her she wouldnt need to apply every month for government money.

I don't know how it works in the country the couple is living in, but if they are taking money from the government beyond what they are entitled to by law, then they shouldn't do that unless they need it (i.e. they cannot meet their monthly expenses without it). If they do not need this money to pay their monthly expenses, then Allah(s.w.a) has blessed them in a big way and they should show their gratitude by allowing this money to go to those who really need it, because there are many people who really need it. 

If she receives money from the government, that she is entitled to by the laws of that country, and she is not lying to the government in order to get it, then that is her money which she can spend as she wishes. This is halal money. If she wants to spend some of it or all of it on her family that is her choice. If he receives money from the government that he is entitled to by law, he must spend it to support his wife and children. After he has done that, if there is money left over, then he can spend the leftover money as he wishes, in halal ways of course. 

Edited April 25, 2018 by Abu Hadi

[Be Human First]

11 hours ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

First of all why would you take money from government if your husband has decent income? Why?

Dont you know, this is what all ethnics does in western countries...or wherever 

[Ron_Burgundy]

9 hours ago, Be Human First said:

Dont you know, this is what all ethnics does in western countries...or wherever 

I don't. My wife doesn't work, and we don't beg government for money. 

[Be Human First]

9 hours ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

I don't. My wife doesn't work, and we don't beg government for money. 

1 or 2 in 100s would never be counted ...I'm glad that there are very few people who are not in to this filthy business of looting , and I see how such people (who ditch govt for money) speaks about haram halal hijab and hub e ahlulbayt a.s

Feeling good to know that you and your family are not in to this

 

[Abu Nur]

10 hours ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

I don't. My wife doesn't work, and we don't beg government for money. 

It is not a begging. It is final support to get, if there is no way to get or find a job. It is good that the one who works should pay all the bills and not take money from Government. There are actually even worse cases from foreigners who pretend to be sick or divorced so they can get more money from government. 

[Ron_Burgundy]

19 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

It is not a begging. It is final support to get, if there is no way to get or find a job. It is good that the one who works should pay all the bills and not take money from Government. There are actually even worse cases from foreigners who pretend to be sick or divorced so they can get more money from government. 

Brother, I make money and Allhamdulilah I make enough to support my family. And according to op, her husband makes decent money too. So why do they need to be on government assistance program? 

[Akbar673]

4 minutes ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

So why do they need to be on government assistance program? 

You'd be surprised how many Indo/Pak people would take the money with no qualms about it.

"Free Money, so lets take it" is the mentality.