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In the Name of God بسم الله
حسين

"Scared to get kicked out of the country"

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 Salam,

Just watched the latest video by Islamic Pulse and I felt the need to share this specific clip from the video. The clip is from 16:18 to 16:45~. He makes a very phenomenal point which is whyI'd like to hear what people think about the point he's made and educate me their views. He makes a lot of good points in the video but this one was directed at the Muslim scholars and Muslim people.

The video should start at 16:18 if not, just skip to 16:18, it's a short clip

Also, re-watched it and I'd like you to watch from the same video; 20:33 - 20:46

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I'd say just watch the whole video when you have time. It's a very important message. My family and I were just talking about this very thing in regards to our own center. Tired of hearing about a watered down Islam. 

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Just now, ireallywannaknow said:

I'd say just watch the whole video when you have time. It's a very important message. My family and I were just talking about this very thing in regards to our own center. Tired of hearing about a watered down Islam. 

I wanted to point out that the entire video deserves a watch because he makes a huge amount of major points in the entirety of the video, but then I realize most people can't be bothered to watch a 30-minute video about truth, so I noted 2 clips in the video which hits home. In all honesty,  there's more than 2, but the ones I noted for those to watch, can be relatable to most people who may or may not decide to watch it.

As he says in the video; "most people just want to  wait and do nothing whilst living spiritually and just wait for Imam Mahdi AJFS"

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The clip is from 16:18 to 16:45~. He makes a very phenomenal point which is whyI'd like to hear what people think about the point he's made and educate me their views. 

Simple. You follow country laws that are in harmony with Islamic laws. If they contradict each other, then you don't take the country law.

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As he says in the video; "most people just want to  wait and do nothing whilst living spiritually and just wait for Imam Mahdi AJFS"

What is living spiritually but following the commandments of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى and sincerely worship Him? If people can't help the oppressed physically or going out and protest, they can give charity and do dua's for them which is also enough.

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Just now, Abu Nur said:

Simple. You follow country laws that are in harmony with Islamic laws. If they contradict each other, then you don't take the country law.

And here's why I respectfully disagree:  20:33-20:48

"...Where will your solidarity be when the little girl is raised on the day of judgment and asks 'what did I do to deserve to die by the bullets your taxes paid for, whilst you did next to nothing to defend my rights'.... "

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No one is forcing you to live in a country where you are supporting that country via taxes, the world is ours made by Allah SWT. You are making the choices to live in a certain country for your own personal gain. You are making the choices to live by their laws and pay their taxes, which are used against your brothers and sisters. That is where I respectfully disagree. 

Edited by حسين
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11 minutes ago, حسين said:

And here's why I respectfully disagree:  20:33-20:48

"...Where will your solidarity be when the little girl is raised on the day of judgment and asks 'what did I do to deserve to die by the bullets your taxes paid for, whilst you did next to nothing to defend my rights'.... "

Really if that is the case then why the Ulemas allow to live in these same countries? By paying taxes, how exactly we know it goes to military, or Schooling, or fixing the roads and how it is our own concern of what the kuffar government is going to do with the money? Also some Western countries include the taxes in products and other services, so if we don't want to pay any taxes it means we can't buy any products at all.

Edited by Abu Nur

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No one is forcing you to live in a country where you are supporting that country via taxes, the world is ours made by Allah SWT. You are making the choices to live in a certain country for your own personal gain. You are making the choices to live by their laws and pay their taxes, which are used against your brothers and sisters. That is where I respectfully disagree. 

Where do you want people to live when the only home and family they have is in western country? Nor do they have enough money or power to move out from it.

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Based on this Islamic principle, it is forbidden to pay taxes that translate into oppression and cause bloodshed. However, many scholars argue that it is allowed to pay taxes because refusing to do so will inflict harm on the person and cause trouble for him or her. Up to my knowledge, in many cases, the one who refuses to pay taxes in the U.S. is taken to jail. Thus, in order to avoid such measurable harm, it is allowed to pay taxes. There are other means by much a U.S. citizen can pressure the officials to abstain from squandering the nation's money by funding unjust missions and governments.

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Just now, Abu Nur said:

Where do you want people to live when the only home and family they have is in western country? Nor do they have enough money or power to move out from it.

Brother, I'm not a judge so please do not take my words in a manner where you may feel I am slandering you. I'm merely spreading what I consider important.

I do not know who you are, nor do I know what state your life is in or your background, I only put this video up as a way to help people who may understand the message this video is spreading. I was born in the U.K. and I enjoyed my past until I realized living in that country was wrong, and I made the move to a less polluted country. It's difficult to move from a country I knew like my body, 24 years is how long I lived in the U.K. and in a heart beat after understanding what was right. I begun to disregard the respect and love I had for it.

Change takes time, and as the English say "If there is a will, there is always a way."

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4 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

how it is our own concern of what the kuffar government is going to do with the money?

It is very much our concern. If we are going to continue to live in these countries the least we can do is speak out against it and hate itwith our words and in our hearts. If everyone has the mentality "how is it our concern" and they stay quiet, the oppression is allowed to continue. Silence is consent. 

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3 minutes ago, حسين said:

Brother, I'm not a judge so please do not take my words in a manner where you may feel I am slandering you. I'm merely spreading what I consider important.

I do not know who you are, nor do I know what state your life is in or your background, I only put this video up as a way to help people who may understand the message this video is spreading. I was born in the U.K. and I enjoyed my past until I realized living in that country was wrong, and I made the move to a less polluted country. It's difficult to move from a country I knew like my body, 24 years is how long I lived in the U.K. and in a heart beat after understanding what was right. I begun to disregard the respect and love I had for it.

Change takes time, and as the English say "If there is a will, there is always a way."

Brother, I understand and you did not slandering me. Sometimes I write in way that it may sound harsh but that is not my intention.

I read from Ayotullah Sistani this law concerning living in west:

'Ubaydullah bin Zurarah narrates that he asked Imam as-Sadiq (a.s.) about the major sins. The Imam said, "In the book of [Imam] 'Ali, they are seven: disbelieving in Allah; killing a person; causing distress to one's parents; dabbling in usury; unlawfully confiscating the property of the orphan; running away from the battle-field in jihad; at-ta'arrub ba'd al-hijra." Then he asked, "So these are the most major of sins?" The Imam replied, "Yes." (4)
Imam ar-Rida (a.s.) explained the prohibition of at-ta'arrub ba'd al-hijra as follows: "Since there is the danger that because of at-ta'arrub, he [the immigrant] might abandon [Islamic] knowledge, get involved with the ignorant people, and drift away" (5)
This, however, does not mean that entering non-Muslim countries is always forbidden. Other ahadith had described for us the reward of one who visits non-Muslim lands, the reward that every Muslim longs for. Hammad al-Sindi narrates that he asked Imam as-Sadiq (a.s.), "I visit the cities of polytheism [i.e., of the polytheists]; and there are some among us who say that 'if you die over there, you will be raised [in the Hereafter] along with them.'" The Imam asked me, "O Hammad, when you are over there do you talk about our affair [i.e., our truth] and call [people] to it?" I replied, "Yes." The Imam asked me, "When you are in these cities, the cities of Islam, do you talk about our affair and call [people] to it?" I replied, "No." The Imam said, "If you die over there [in the land of the non-Muslims], you will be raised as an ummah by yourself, and there will be light in front of you!" (6)

---

Unfortunate many Muslims who are living in Western Country are living in haram way, thus staying in such a country is actually haram if they can't change their way. For them it will become wajib to migrate to Islamic country. But there are Muslims who live better and following all Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى commandments even in Western countries, these people are fine to stay in such a countries.

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It is very much our concern. If we are going to continue to live in these countries the least we can do is speak out against it and hate itwith our words and in our hearts. If everyone has the mentality "how is it our concern" and they stay quiet, the oppression is allowed to continue. Silence is consent. 

You are right, Hating actions, principles and laws of government of Kuffar that goes against Islamic laws and values will be and should be our concern minimum in our hearts. 

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36 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

What is living spiritually but following the commandments of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى and sincerely worship Him? If people can't help the oppressed physically or going out and protest, they can give charity and do dua's for them which is also enough.

Salam Everything is that everyone do it to support oppressed people must be done ,the best of them is knowing Imam Hussain (as) & fixing ourselves that we deserve to that Imam Mahdi (aj) reappears for us ,we must try our best in every work that we can even just by hating oppressors just in your heart.

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I lost my job by saying some stuff against the terrorists supporters Saudia and Israel and soon my work place was fish in troubled water. But iknow that these little monsters are giving me rizq rather Allah and his 14 masoomeen are the reason and i got another job with 4 days :) 

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2 hours ago, Raza313 said:

I lost my job by saying some stuff against the terrorists supporters Saudia and Israel and soon my work place was fish in troubled water. But iknow that these little monsters are giving me rizq rather Allah and his 14 masoomeen are the reason and i got another job with 4 days :) 

Assalamun Alaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh 

"And [remember, O Muhammad], when those who disbelieved plotted against you to restrain you or kill you or evict you [from Makkah]. But they plan, and Allah plans. And Allah is the best of planners" (Surah 8:30). 

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3 hours ago, حسين said:

No one is forcing you to live in a country where you are supporting that country via taxes, the world is ours made by Allah SWT. You are making the choices to live in a certain country for your own personal gain. You are making the choices to live by their laws and pay their taxes, which are used against your brothers and sisters. That is where I respectfully disagree. 

Assalamun Alaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh.

Mashallah.

"And He will provide him from [sources] he could never imagine. And whoever puts their trust in Allāh, then He will suffice him. Verily, Allāh will accomplish His purpose. Indeed, Allāh has set a measure for all things" (65:3). 

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And for those muslims who support the US Government, you should remember or you should know if you haven't been told that 

The two greatest crimes that ever happened in all of human history were done by the same US Government

1) The Genocide of the Native American tribes who inhabited the continent of North America

There has never been another instance in human history of an entire population spanning a whole continent that has been systematically wiped off the face of the earth except for this instance. This was carried out with the full support and under the supervision of the same US Government.

Although the Spanish Conquistadors in South America were brutal, there was a limit to their brutality. Once they took over the political state, they lived with and intermarried with the Native Tribes in , for example Mexico, which is why the current Mexican population is a mix of Spanish and Native Mexican, called Mestiso. In the US, it was much different. Once the area was politically conquered, the Native population was wiped out, and this was done by the order of the US Government. The few that were left were imprisoned on reservations. Which is why in places like Kansas, Nebraska, Minnesota, etc, you have majority populations which are almost 100% genetically European, although a little more than 100 years ago these areas were overwhelmingly Native American and the current population has virtually no traces of this population. 

2) The capture and enslavement of the Africans who were brought to the US. 

Although slavery existed at the time, the systematic and brutal way this was done under the supervision of and supported by the US government is a crime that can never be wiped away and will echo thru the pages of time. 

These two crimes have never been fully acknowledged or apologized for and no serious effort has been made to compensate the victims. These crimes were so large and so heinous, I don't think there is actually a way to compensate the victims in this life. The killing of the Jewish population in WWII (which some call the Holocaust) pales in comparison to the above two crimes as far as length of time, numbers killed, and cultures and ways of life that were completely destroyed. 

If anyone doubts this, I would be glad to open a thread about either one of these topics or both. 

If there were only these two crimes and nothing else, these should be sufficient for anyone who believes in justice not to support or trust the US Government at all. 

 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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9 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

At the same time, we have a duty to speak up whenever we can. Which is why I regularly go to demonstrations, and also announce them. 

Salam Abu Hadi,

I respect that whole heartedly, this post isn't about getting people to move but more or less a wake up call and stop being afraid.

@Abu Nur

You may have your riz3 (place where Allah SWT has allowed you to find good work) in America, but you are also forefilling your duty as a Muslim. You aren't afraid to speak up and help other Muslims, assuming from the responses you have given. 

Some Muslim people who, i.e. me for instance, I not only used to pay tax to help the government and not pay charity to useful Muslim orginasitions, I was well off living a luxurious life in the west. Paying for luxury in the west, goes to businesses in the west ( in most cases) and those business pay tax, therefore I was supporting the government even more. 

Whichin reality, in my own opinion made me a bad human being before it made me a bad Muslim.

Allah SWT provides for all who deserve to work all over the world. Its our durty as Muslims to care for one another and support each other against the oppressors.

Thank you all for the responses so far, genuinely opening up my mind, Alhamdullah.

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You may have your riz3 (place where Allah SWT has allowed you to find good work) in America, but you are also forefilling your duty as a Muslim. You aren't afraid to speak up and help other Muslims, assuming from the responses you have given. 

Brother I live somewhere in Europe :) Here every product include taxes. I don't support the government and it's laws. I live in such way that I always check what is Halal and Haram from Islamic laws before doing anything here or condemn anything. I can practice my religion very well here.

If it makes you feel bad and you have opportunity to move to Islamic country, then it is good if you can practice well in Islamic country.

Edited by Abu Nur

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l take issue with Hussani's video.

Ayat 6:70  "take their religion as ... amusement ..."

Which is what most people do.  The person in the video talks as if every so-called Muslim is a believer.

Ayats 7:51 and 29:64 are similar.

Ask yourself this question: Reference to when the black flag is in Khorasan. Why such a relatively small area? When the number of self-saying Shahadies is so large?

 

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1 hour ago, hasanhh said:

l take issue with Hussani's video.

Ayat 6:70  "take their religion as ... amusement 

You're taking their religion a amusement, but you're supporting their government to; bomb your Islamic brothers and sisters, you're supporting the government by paying for their weapons and there military.

The people choosing to continue living in the west are the people making the west stronger than yesterday. 

Yes, you take their religion as amusement, but they're killing your Muslim brothers and sisters whilst you only take their religion into amusement. 

You work in their countries, whilst there are other countries which could use your man power or your mind to improve on. But you choose to live in another because it's easier for you, whilst causing hardship on others. 

It's easy to live in the west because it's already developed, it's hard to move out of the west because of the addictions and lavish lifestyle one has acquired there.

You will probably say, it's not only Muslims who work and pay taxes, but the U.K for example holds 16.7% Muslims out of the entire U.K population, and if you think realistically, a huge majority of big successful businesses are owned by Muslims. I could just write a dissertation on this subject, but I'll stop here as it's turning into a huge post.

Edited by حسين

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43 minutes ago, حسين said:

It's easy to live in the west because it's already developed, it's hard to move out of the west because of the addictions and lavish lifestyle one has acquired there.

That is false. It is same where ever you live as mu'min, its always going to be hard. 

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13 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

That is false. It is same where ever you live as mu'min, its always going to be hard. 

Im using the U.K as a reference due to experience and knowledge.

I know, living as a mu'min it's hard, but living in a general sense, it's easier. You've got the government supporting you if you aren't financially able to live to the standard. You do not have to think about things in the west that you may struggle with in non Western countries. Water, do you think about obtaining clean water to drink on a regular basis, or is that just there? Do you worry about if you fall sick, should you not be able to pay the entry fee to go into hospital and be hospitalized? Because in some places, they won't allow you to be hospitalized if you're unable to pay.

The government in the U.K has it's faults and has it's cons. In my very own opinion, it's faults as a country out weigh the pros the government has.

First thing I hated from the U.K is homeless people, none of my business, but now the area I live in the community as a whole take care of ensuring there are no homeless people. Yes you will see beggers and poor people, but I've not once seen a man nor woman sleep on the streets here. In the U.K a rich country, I saw it ever night and morning I left for work and came back from work.

Again, I'm stating this is how, one feels about the country. I'm not enforcing my feelings upon any, I'm just putting how I think and feel out there. If you feel like you can give me a constructive educated responce to educate me that would be helpful.

Edited by حسين
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11 hours ago, حسين said:

Im using the U.K as a reference due to experience and knowledge.

I know, living as a mu'min it's hard, but living in a general sense, it's easier. You've got the government supporting you if you aren't financially able to live to the standard. You do not have to think about things in the west that you may struggle with in non Western countries. Water, do you think about obtaining clean water to drink on a regular basis, or is that just there? Do you worry about if you fall sick, should you not be able to pay the entry fee to go into hospital and be hospitalized? Because in some places, they won't allow you to be hospitalized if you're unable to pay.

The government in the U.K has it's faults and has it's cons. In my very own opinion, it's faults as a country out weigh the pros the government has.

First thing I hated from the U.K is homeless people, none of my business, but now the area I live in the community as a whole take care of ensuring there are no homeless people. Yes you will see beggers and poor people, but I've not once seen a man nor woman sleep on the streets here. In the U.K a rich country, I saw it ever night and morning I left for work and came back from work.

Again, I'm stating this is how, one feels about the country. I'm not enforcing my feelings upon any, I'm just putting how I think and feel out there. If you feel like you can give me a constructive educated responce to educate me that would be helpful.

Mostly these people who are no religious who live in the easier country want's to stay with it and enjoy it because they truly chooses worldly life instead of Hereafter. For the believer, he/she find the way to be thankful and obeying Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى, and they truly don't care anything about easier or lavish lifestyle, they just want to live as how they live as long they can remember Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى and obey Him.

When the Prophet ascended the heavens, he asked, "O Lord, what is the status of the believer to You?"

Allah said, "O Muhammad, whoever insults any of My friends has declared war against Me. I am the quickest to help My friends. I have not hesitated in doing good to them like My hesitation to cause the death of a believer who dislikes death - I dislike to disappoint him.

Of My believing servants, there are those who do not perform well without wealth, and if I change his condition, he is destroyed. Also among My believing servants are those who do not perform well unless they are poor, and if I change their condition to something else, they are destroyed.

(al-Kafi, Volume 2, Chapter 145, Hadith #8)

---------

A man wrote to Imam ar-Rida (as) to complain about the bitterness of the people of Wasit, their aggression towards him, and the harm caused by a group of Uthmanis against him.

So the Imam replied in his handwriting, "Allah has taken a covenant with our supporters that they remain patient in an evil state. So patiently await the judgment of your Lord. When the Master of the Creation rises, they will say, 'O woe to us! Who has raised us up from our sleeping place?' [The reply will be], 'This is what the Most Merciful had promised, and the messengers told the truth.'" (36:52) (al-Kafi)

Edited by Abu Nur

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14 hours ago, حسين said:

The people choosing to continue living in the west are the people making the west stronger than yesterday. 

All Muslim countries ( Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Egypt,..) are paying (with taxes! ) buying , consuming western products. Non of the Maraji have declared the trade with the western world to be haram ! because there is a difference between “living someone’s life” vs. “direct support of the government” .

unless you are claiming to be a new Marja!

“It is recorded in history that the Prophet of Allah bought a shaman from a Jewish man. Historians also wrote: The Prophet (peace be upon him) had مزارعه و مساقات with the Jews.”

source:

ابن‌قیم الجوزی، احکام اهل الذمه، ج۱، ص۲۶۹.

Edited by Arminmo

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@Arminmo If you're going to choose to pick out specific things I said without reading the entire post, and then coming to a conclusion. That's your problem, not mine, I never stated that I was a marja, I made it clear. It's my opinion. If you have a problem with another human beings opinion. Your problem.

Also, you said Iran does trades with the western countries. That seems to be a falsified fact you're attempting to use to prove a point. I've just done a tiny search, and it's apparent the U.S. and most Western countries, do not have any trade deals with Iran because of sanctions. China does have deals but I wouldn't consider China a western country, would you?

Source- 

1. http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2122435/china-pumps-billions-iranian-economy-western-firms-hold

2. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/12/29/u-s-sanction-iran-china-seizes-opportunity/989571001/

3. http://www.mei.edu/content/map/defying-expectations-china’s-iran-trade-investments

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8 minutes ago, حسين said:

Also, you said Iran does trades with the western countries. That seems to be a falsified fact you're attempting to use to prove a point.

France bombed Syria last week and Iran is buying airplanes from them !

so my point is right , yours not.

Edited by Arminmo

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