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In the Name of God بسم الله
Enlightened Follower

Men in the West are becoming Feminized

Reza

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The focus of this topic is men becoming effeminate. This is not a discussion of feminism or women's rights, or even of women becoming masculine. Please stay on topic.

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2 hours ago, Reza said:

You can’t alter the natural course...

Yes you can. 

Ever heard of a scientist by the name of Mendel? By selecting which characteristic you want to encourage, you can increase the incidence of that characteristic. 

Assuming dialogue works like genetics. 

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Men can be feminine, transgender, gay, I don't care as long as they are not abusive. I would love to live in a world where I don't have to live in fear for my safety and my sister's safety. Even if it means all men in that world are gay or married to few promiscuous women whom they LOVE. All promiscuous women deserve to be comfort brides for ALL the men they have affairs with. 

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23 hours ago, rkazmi33 said:

Men can be feminine, transgender, gay, I don't care as long as they are not abusive. I would love to live in a world where I don't have to live in fear for my safety and my sister's safety. Even if it means all men in that world are gay or married to few promiscuous women whom they LOVE. All promiscuous women deserve to be comfort brides for ALL the men they have affairs with. 

If men become transgender and gay they won’t be able to defend their country or women, also suprisingly women decide the sexual market. Shaming of other women has found to be more common among women as well as preferring men who are “experienced” or have been with many women.

Higher Testosterone is also linked to higher IQ and lower rates of depression:

https://psychcentral.com/news/2011/03/14/testosterone-hormone-linked-to-higher-iq/24379.html

 

Edited by Enlightened Follower

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On 4/19/2018 at 5:33 PM, Amira00 said:

I do agree that some radical feminists are going too far and have distorted the actuall meaning of feminism. Feminism means the equality between men and women. We know they are not the same physically, but feminism demands that men and women are treated equally, I.e they both have a right to education, to work, to earn the same etc. But some radical feminists have taken it too far and have ironically become sexist themselves against men. 

Linking back to the physical differences between men and women, it's only natural that men take the labor intensive jobs because they are better equipped for them physically. That doesn't mean that only men take the labour intensive jobs, it just that only a minority of women consider themselves fit enough to do them.  I don't understand where the unfairness is here. 

Also, being emotional is not a feeling restricted only to women. Men cry too, they get upset and angry too. Men go through the same emotions, but society has taught them to silence those emotions because it's "unmanly". Encouraging men to express their emotions can only be seen as right. I don't understand what you mean by "that advice doesn't work".

Assalamu'alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh,

A very interesting read....

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/warren-buffett-women-make-optimistic-country-120930431.html

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9 hours ago, Enlightened Follower said:

Okay... so what is it you suggest? 

Should we raise all girls with the idea that women can only be housewives and work to serve their husbands so they never know about the inequality and sexism they're living in? 

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7 hours ago, Amira00 said:

Okay... so what is it you suggest? 

Should we raise all girls with the idea that women can only be housewives and work to serve their husbands so they never know about the inequality and sexism they're living in? 

No but to treat men with respect and raise women with realistic expectations rather than raising women who don’t value life and bash men. A girl in America committed suicide because her parents would not allow her to go to a party, this is insanity. 

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8 hours ago, Amira00 said:

Okay... so ...

Should we raise all girls with the idea that women can only be housewives and work to serve their husbands so they never know about the inequality and sexism they're living in? 

Of course not. Every wife and mother needs a job outside the home. lt is not only goof or their emotional health, but they can earn some of the money they are always spending.

:grin:

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1 hour ago, Enlightened Follower said:

No but to treat men with respect and raise women with realistic expectations rather than raising women who don’t value life and bash men. A girl in America committed suicide because her parents would not allow her to go to a party, this is insanity. 

Firstly, this isn't a pro-life/pro-choice debate. So I won't  get into that. 

Secondly, what are the realistic expectations? In my opinion, telling girls they can get an education and have successful careers just like their male counterparts isn't unrealistic.

Finally, unless you somehow got into that girl's mind when she was committing suicide, I don't think it's fair to decide why she killed herself. Sure, with some  suicides you can assume certain factors that could've led to it happeneing, but you can never be 100% sure about the reasons behind that persons choice. Also, I don't get how that relates to your argument.

Edited by Amira00

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1 hour ago, Enlightened Follower said:

No but to treat men with respect and raise women with realistic expectations rather than raising women who don’t value life and bash men. A girl in America committed suicide because her parents would not allow her to go to a party, this is insanity. 

Suicide.

?

lnsensitive as this reads, "not much of a girl', then.

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41 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

Suicide.

?

lnsensitive as this reads, "not much of a girl', then.

Female Narcissism at its finest:

https://nypost.com/2018/04/19/teen-committed-suicide-after-parents-wouldnt-let-her-go-to-party/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Edited by Enlightened Follower

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1 hour ago, Amira00 said:

Firstly, this isn't a pro-life/pro-choice debate. So I won't  get into that. 

Secondly, what are the realistic expectations? In my opinion, telling girls they can get an education and have successful careers just like their male counterparts isn't unrealistic.

Finally, unless you somehow got into that girl's mind when she was committing suicide, I don't think it's fair to decide why she killed herself. Sure, with some  suicides you can assume certain factors that could've led to it happeneing, but you can never be 100% sure about the reasons behind that persons choice. Also, I don't get how that relates to your argument.

4

Assalamualaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh sister

"In my opinion, telling girls they can get an education and have successful careers just like their male counterparts isn't unrealistic" Looks like a typo? 

Islam teaches that in the sight of Allah Almighty, both women and men are equal.  However, I think the society / our upbringing does create the "realistic expectations" for both women and men.  

http://fortune.com/2018/02/28/black-history-month-black-ceos-fortune-500/

 

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1 hour ago, Amira00 said:

Secondly, what are the realistic expectations? In my opinion, telling girls they can get an education and have successful careers just like their male counterparts isn't unrealistic.

Feminism produces more gender inequality and less women in STEM:

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/02/the-more-gender-equality-the-fewer-women-in-stem/553592/

d099fa13a.png

 

Notice Muslim countries have more STEM graduates than Sweden or the US.

Edited by Enlightened Follower

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46 minutes ago, Enlightened Follower said:

Feminism leads to spoiled women who think they can have their cake and eat it too.

If it's done right, it leads to men and women who give and expect respect regardless of gender. Rather than worrying about labels, we should just treat everyone the way we would want to be treated. 

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On 4/19/2018 at 6:33 AM, Enlightened Follower said:

In the case of secular materialism and most women in the West don’t value relationships, men who are millionaires will marry poor women but a female doctor would never marry say a male plumber she would want someone who out earns her at least this is the case in Western culture.

Dude have you seen a pak or Indian doctor girl marry a plumber ?

Not if pigs fly higher than Himalayas

It's not just western culture that's screwed up our own culture is no better 

Reality is most people put religion aside when making choices...materialism trumps everything 

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1 hour ago, Enlightened Follower said:

Feminism leads to spoiled women who think they can have their cake and eat it too.

I'm lost here. Are you saying feminism leads to suicide which is "spoiled women who think they can have their cake and eat it too"?? 

When I asked you how it relates to your argument I was talking about the story about  the girl who committed suicide- it was quite randomly thrown in there. 

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2 hours ago, Amira00 said:

I'm lost here. Are you saying feminism leads to suicide which is "spoiled women who think they can have their cake and eat it too"?? 

When I asked you how it relates to your argument I was talking about the story about  the girl who committed suicide- it was quite randomly thrown in there. 

The point of that story was to point to the fact feminism fails to accomplish what it claims to do, I.e. female happiness and freedom.

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2 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

Dude have you seen a pak or Indian doctor girl marry a plumber ?

Not if pigs fly higher than Himalayas

It's not just western culture that's screwed up our own culture is no better 

Reality is most people put religion aside when making choices...materialism trumps everything 

Yes but in Pakistani, Indian society there are still girls that have less money than a plumber providing a relationship for everyone. In the West that’s not the case and women are now out earning men and even those earning equal pay want someone who out earns them.

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41 minutes ago, Enlightened Follower said:

Yes but in Pakistani, Indian society there are still girls that have less money than a plumber providing a relationship for everyone. In the West that’s not the case and women are now out earning men and even those earning equal pay want someone who out earns them.

True but in rural America lots of white women still marry for religious and family reasons regardless of money so let's not generalize 

What you are describing essentially is an urban phenomena

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On 4/24/2018 at 12:47 PM, Enlightened Follower said:

Feminism produces more gender inequality and less women in STEM:

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/02/the-more-gender-equality-the-fewer-women-in-stem/553592/

d099fa13a.png

 

Notice Muslim countries have more STEM graduates than Sweden or the US.

Of all STEM students in Muslim countries, a larger percentage are women than in Scandinavia. What has this to do with feminist movement? Is it a problem that girls have success? 

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On 4/24/2018 at 5:50 PM, andres said:

Of all STEM students in Muslim countries, a larger percentage are women than in Scandinavia. What has this to do with feminist movement? Is it a problem that girls have success? 

My point was countries that enforce gender equality such as Sweden actually promote more inequality in the STEM fields.

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By feminizing men and not allowing them to be themselves basic societal institutions breakdown it is within the nature of men to be certain way, new studies show men have certain behaviors because of how they are biologically, this has even been found in other species:

Male monkeys prefer boys toys

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13596-male-monkeys-prefer-boys-toys/

Edited by Enlightened Follower

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On 4/24/2018 at 5:50 PM, andres said:

Is it a problem that girls have success? 

hi feminism doesn't any relation to feminism , most of feminist groups looks like uneducated thugs with anti social behaviors.   

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6 hours ago, Enlightened Follower said:

My point was countries that enforce gender equality such as Sweden actually promote more inequality in the STEM fields.

Is your definition of "gender equality" that 50% if all taxidrivers, doctors, nurses, policemen must be women? 

Over here we say that equality means that women and men have the same possiibility to choose the carrear of their own choise. If this mean that there is an overweight of women in some jobs, and an overweight of men in others, this has nothing to do with equality.

When it comes to politics however, some see it as a problem that women only make up 30% of elected politicians. 

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3 hours ago, andres said:

Is your definition of "gender equality" that 50% if all taxidrivers, doctors, nurses, policemen must be women? 

Over here we say that equality means that women and men have the same possiibility to choose the carrear of their own choise. If this mean that there is an overweight of women in some jobs, and an overweight of men in others, this has nothing to do with equality.

When it comes to politics however, some see it as a problem that women only make up 30% of elected politicians. 

I agree, but society doesn't encourage women to go into politics or other male-dominated sectors. That's why some view it as a problem because we're being told that we have equal opportunities but we're still discriminated against and ridiculed if we chose to focus on more STEM related careers. The same goes for men, except they're ridiculed for choosing careers that lean more towards the arts. 

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On 4/24/2018 at 5:50 PM, andres said:

What has this to do with feminist movement? I

Feminism from a westerner Professor view 

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2 hours ago, Amira00 said:

I agree, but society doesn't encourage women to go into politics or other male-dominated sectors. That's why some view it as a problem because we're being told that we have equal opportunities but we're still discriminated against and ridiculed if we chose to focus on more STEM related careers. The same goes for men, except they're ridiculed for choosing careers that lean more towards the arts. 

Dont know where you live, but in Europe northern Europe women are generally accepted as equals and laws no longer discriminate women. That women and men tend to choose different educations is not an expression of discrimination. 

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Why are people so concerned about 'men getting feminized' as if it's destroying our planet. We need to stop creating our own complicated rules and definitions. Just let men live and don't pressure them to live up to the standards we set.

We should all direct our energy to something more useful. Women don't fear feminine men, they fear abusive men. 

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

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2 hours ago, andres said:

Dont know where you live, but in Europe northern Europe women are generally accepted as equals and laws no longer discriminate women.

Yes but many Swedish and Scandinavian men are avoiding their women and going to Eastern Europe or Asia to get married because of women’s attitude:

14. Swedish girls can’t handle reality. They are too sheltered within their gender neutral utopia. Any type of remark that references science or the real nature of men and women will get a negative response. What’s interesting is that I had way better conversations with Ukrainian women, who spoke bad English, than Swedish girls who spoke fluent English. Ukrainian women see the world as it is. They understand sexual economics and human attraction. They weren’t so politically correct that topics were off limits like in Sweden. It’s one of the more open countries in Scandinavia when it comes to free speech but I felt censored. Stick to travel, music, and movies, and you should be straight.

http://www.returnofkings.com/780/14-things-every-guy-should-know-about-swedish-girls

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On 4/25/2018 at 8:35 AM, andres said:

don’t know where you live, but in Europe northern Europe women are generally accepted as equals and laws no longer discriminate women. That women and men tend to choose different educations is not an expression of discrimination. 

From what studies I’ve seen Scandinavian countries are becoming more gender unequal in terms of personality and various tests:

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