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In the Name of God بسم الله

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:bismillah:

A hadith came in my sight and I am surprised to see its chain:

‘It was narrated to us by Ali Bin Musa Al-Reza (asws), from his father Musa Bin Ja’far (asws), from his father Ja’far Bin Muhammad (asws), from his father Muhammad Bin Ali (asws), from his father Ali Bin Al-Husayn (asws) , from his father Al-Husayn Bin Ali, from his father Ali Bin Abu Talib (asws), from the Prophet (saww), from Jibraeel (as), from Mikaeel (as), from Israfeel (as), from Allah (azwj), Majestic is His Majesty, that He (azwj), Glorious is He, Said: I Will not Accept a deed of a performer from them except with the acknowledgement of his (asws) Wilayah along with the Prophet-hood of Ahmad (saww) My Rasool.

(Bashaarat Al Mustafa (saww) Li Shia Al Murtaza (asws) - P 1 H 44 (Extract)

I am surprised to see Jibraeel (as) listened it from Mikaeel (as) and he from Israfeel (as). 

Here is the chain of narrators:

He said, ‘And by the chain, from Al Hassan Bin Muhammad Al Hashimy Al Kufy, from Furat Bin Ibrahim Bin Furat Al Kufy, from Muhammad Bin Zaheer, from Al Hassan Bin Muhammad Bin Al Husayn Bin Akhy Yunus Al Baghdady at Baghdad, from Muhammad Bin Yaqoub Al Nahshaly who said:

I request brother @Qa'im to share with us his thoughts about the chain.

Another narration from "Al Ihtijaj Al Tabarsi – V 1 P 230" mentions the command of Imam Sadiq (asws) without quoting the chain:

"And there has come an order from the Imam Ja’far Al Sadiq (asws) that one who says, ‘There is no god except Allah (azwj), Muhammad (saww) is a Rasool of Allah (azwj)’, so let him immediately say, ‘Ali (asws) is Amir Al-Momineen’. 

There is also a hadith in Bihar – V 37 Ch 54 H 10 mentioning the command of Allah (s.w.t):

"It has been reported from the Imam Al-Sadiq (asws) that he said: ‘When Allah (azwj) Created the skies and the earth, He Commanded a caller, so he called out: ‘I testify that there is no god except Allah (azwj)’ – three times (and), ‘I testify that Muhammad (saww) is a Rasool of Allah’ – three times, (and), ‘I testify that Ali (asws) is Emir of the Momineen truly’ – three times’’.

Are these the ahadith with us as a daleel to recite the third testimony (with the niyat of qurbat) in azan & iqamah?

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20 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

 

Brother @Hassan-, any thoughts on that??

The issue of adding the third testimony requires a lot of research and analysis, and as of yet I have not seen any clear cut reliable hadith that makes it permissible. The only daleel we have is the maraji's opinion on it, in which they say it is permissible without the intention of being a wajib act. It would be nice if our maraji' today talked about this issue more and explain to us laymen why they allow it despite our ahadith and classical scholars being against it.

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23 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

:bismillah:

A hadith came in my sight and I am surprised to see its chain:

‘It was narrated to us by Ali Bin Musa Al-Reza (asws), from his father Musa Bin Ja’far (asws), from his father Ja’far Bin Muhammad (asws), from his father Muhammad Bin Ali (asws), from his father Ali Bin Al-Husayn (asws) , from his father Al-Husayn Bin Ali, from his father Ali Bin Abu Talib (asws), from the Prophet (saww), from Jibraeel (as), from Mikaeel (as), from Israfeel (as), from Allah (azwj), Majestic is His Majesty, that He (azwj), Glorious is He, Said: I Will not Accept a deed of a performer from them except with the acknowledgement of his (asws) Wilayah along with the Prophet-hood of Ahmad (saww) My Rasool.

(Bashaarat Al Mustafa (saww) Li Shia Al Murtaza (asws) - P 1 H 44 (Extract)

I am surprised to see Jibraeel (as) listened it from Mikaeel (as) and he from Israfeel (as). 

Here is the chain of narrators:

He said, ‘And by the chain, from Al Hassan Bin Muhammad Al Hashimy Al Kufy, from Furat Bin Ibrahim Bin Furat Al Kufy, from Muhammad Bin Zaheer, from Al Hassan Bin Muhammad Bin Al Husayn Bin Akhy Yunus Al Baghdady at Baghdad, from Muhammad Bin Yaqoub Al Nahshaly who said:

I request brother @Qa'im to share with us his thoughts about the chain.

Another narration from "Al Ihtijaj Al Tabarsi – V 1 P 230" mentions the command of Imam Sadiq (asws) without quoting the chain:

"And there has come an order from the Imam Ja’far Al Sadiq (asws) that one who says, ‘There is no god except Allah (azwj), Muhammad (saww) is a Rasool of Allah (azwj)’, so let him immediately say, ‘Ali (asws) is Amir Al-Momineen’. 

There is also a hadith in Bihar – V 37 Ch 54 H 10 mentioning the command of Allah (s.w.t):

"It has been reported from the Imam Al-Sadiq (asws) that he said: ‘When Allah (azwj) Created the skies and the earth, He Commanded a caller, so he called out: ‘I testify that there is no god except Allah (azwj)’ – three times (and), ‘I testify that Muhammad (saww) is a Rasool of Allah’ – three times, (and), ‘I testify that Ali (asws) is Emir of the Momineen truly’ – three times’’.

Are these the ahadith with us as a daleel to recite the third testimony (with the niyat of qurbat) in azan & iqamah?

Wa aleykumsalaam,

All those above hadeeth are weak in terms of chain of narrators and we have plenty of authentic hadeeth where Imam has taught us Adhan with out Aliayan wali ullah, Even present scholar like Ayatullah Sistani (May Allah prolong his life) does not consider Third Shahada as a part of Adhan or Iqamah, rather he deemed it Mustahab. 

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11 hours ago, Hassan- said:

The only daleel we have is the maraji's opinion on it, in which they say it is permissible without the intention of being a wajib act.

I am looking for the daleel with our maraji karam. Thought that may be the ahadith quoted by me are the reason.

On 4/10/2018 at 11:30 AM, Salsabeel said:

Are these the ahadith with us as a daleel to recite the third testimony (with the niyat of qurbat) in azan & iqamah?

 

8 hours ago, Aquib Rizvi said:

All those above hadeeth are weak in terms of chain of narrators and we have plenty of authentic hadeeth where Imam has taught us Adhan with out Aliayan wali ullah,

If we have AUTHENTIC & MUTAWATIR ahadith about Azan & Iqamah without mentioning the third testimony, I am unable to understand why we say it? Even with the intention of qurbat, not being the intention of part of Azan & iqamah, there is no reason to do that.

8 hours ago, Aquib Rizvi said:

Ayatullah Sistani (May Allah prolong his life) does not consider Third Shahada as a part of Adhan or Iqamah, rather he deemed it Mustahab. 

Do you know what daleel he has infront of authentic ahadith, for allowing the saying of third  shahadah as mustahab? 

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4 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

 

If we have AUTHENTIC & MUTAWATIR ahadith about Azan & Iqamah without mentioning the third testimony, I am unable to understand why we say it? Even with the intention of qurbat, not being the intention of part of Azan & iqamah, there is no reason to do that.

Do you know what daleel he has infront of authentic ahadith, for allowing the saying of third  shahadah as mustahab? 

This is the crux of the problem. 

There is really no doubt about the athan and iqama, it is without third testimony, that is clear.

What is confusing is that how can we say the 3rd athan "alongside" the athan, but say sunnis are wrong by saying extra things?

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16 minutes ago, iraqi_shia said:

This is the crux of the problem. 

There is really no doubt about the athan and iqama, it is without third testimony, that is clear.

What is confusing is that how can we say the 3rd athan "alongside" the athan, but say sunnis are wrong by saying extra things?

we don't say sunnis are wrong in adding "as salat khair minannaum". We say they are are wrong because they feel they can add optional lines to adhan but we can't.

4 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

I am looking for the daleel with our maraji karam. Thought that may be the ahadith quoted by me are the reason.

 

If we have AUTHENTIC & MUTAWATIR ahadith about Azan & Iqamah without mentioning the third testimony, I am unable to understand why we say it? Even with the intention of qurbat, not being the intention of part of Azan & iqamah, there is no reason to do that.

Do you know what daleel he has infront of authentic ahadith, for allowing the saying of third  shahadah as mustahab? 

Brother - you should email his office and let us all know the response.

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Not all maraji mention all their views publically. Why? We can't really know. It's best to take precaution in our actions fiqh-wise and also remember husn dhan when we talk about our scholars. I also can't comprehend why despite all the proof maraji would allow this though. There was a thread which showed an article by Shia Reformist or whatever and although I usually don't like people like them it did raise good points and quote the views of our early ulama. Though maybe I'm wrong, anyone found a defense from pro-3rd shahada scholars??

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9 hours ago, iraqi_shia said:

There is really no doubt about the athan and iqama, it is without third testimony, that is clear.

So it is still. We don't understand third testimony a part of athan & iqama. 

I was questioning as to why Maraji allow to say it with the intention of qurbat? Problem is that we are divided into 3 types of Shia's in this matter:

a) Those who dont say third shahadah at all. 
b) Those who say third shahadah, but don't make it a part of Azan & Iqama.
c) Those who say third shahadah & make it a part of Azan & Iqama. They understand saying third shahadah is wajib & they say it even in the tashahud. 
 

9 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Brother - you should email his office and let us all know the response.

I think I know what answer he will give me. 
Its like saying the other athkaar which we say after Allaho Akbar (Jalle Jalahu) or after Ashhado an la ilaha illallah (wahdahu la shareeka lah) etc. 
Neither "Jalle Jalahu" nor "Wahdahu la shareeka lah" is a part of azan or iqama but answering the azan & iqamah is mustahab. Similar is the case with third shahadah, after listening the second shahadah, it is mustahab to say third shahadah to mention the righful successor of Holy Prophet (PBUH) and to express that we have heard his call of "man kunto mowla".

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10 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

I think I know what answer he will give me. 
Its like saying the other athkaar which we say after Allaho Akbar (Jalle Jalahu) or after Ashhado an la ilaha illallah (wahdahu la shareeka lah) etc. 
Neither "Jalle Jalahu" nor "Wahdahu la shareeka lah" is a part of azan or iqama but answering the azan & iqamah is mustahab. Similar is the case with third shahadah, after listening the second shahadah, it is mustahab to say third shahadah to mention the righful successor of Holy Prophet (PBUH) and to express that we have heard his call of "man kunto mowla".

So problem solved then. You've answered your own question.

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Neither Shias nor Sunnis are wrong because adhan and Iqama are not wajib nor are they a kind of rukn,

This (like anything else) only becomes a big deal if we make them a big deal.  If you focus too much on anything it will become bigger and bigger.  

So just forget about it.

 

:)

 

Edited by eThErEaL

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