More powerful: Iblees or Imams

[ShiaMan14]

Salaam,

This is somewhat of a cryptic post but do you believe our Imams to be more powerful or Shaytan (Iblees) to be more powerful?

Reason for either choice?

[Soldiers and Saffron]

Ws,

Powerful over who?

The Imams(as) are infallible so ibliss(la) is powerless against them.

[Arminmo]

Quran 38:82,83

[Iblees] said, "By your might, I will surely mislead them all

Except, among them, Your chosen servants."

 

[Sirius_Bright]

11 minutes ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Salaam,

This is somewhat of a cryptic post but do you believe our Imams to be more powerful or Shaytan (Iblees) to be more powerful?

Reason for either choice?

The answer is straightforward for any shia. It's the hujjate Khuda who is more powerful not the enemy of Allah.

One of the Proof: Imam Zainul Abedin (a.s.) didn't lose concentration in Salaah when Shaitan rajeem came and started chewing his toe.

[Arminmo]

 Quran 21:73

And We made them leaders (imams) guiding by Our command. And We inspired to them the doing of good deeds, establishment of prayer, and giving of zakah; and they were worshippers of Us.

[ShiaMan14]

34 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

Ws,

Powerful over who?

The Imams(as) are infallible so ibliss(la) is powerless against them.

More powerful than each other.

[Arminmo]

Whats the definition of power here ?

Power over deceiving people?

This is not the right way of comparison of them.

Edited April 9, 2018 by Arminmo

[ShiaMan14]

2 hours ago, Arminmo said:

Whats the definition of power here ?

Power over deceiving people?

This is not the right way of comparison of them.

over any and all ways that you can imagine.

[wolverine]

10 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

This is somewhat of a cryptic post but do you believe our Imams to be more powerful or Shaytan (Iblees) to be more powerful?

Salam. Is this a trick question? 

[Hameedeh]

12 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Salaam,

This is somewhat of a cryptic post but do you believe our Imams to be more powerful or Shaytan (Iblees) to be more powerful?

Reason for either choice?

Salam. The Imams AS have more power in everything that they do because Allah SWT guides them and helps them. Allah SWT does not guide or help Shaytan (Iblees) because he does wrong. 

[Urwatul Wuthqa]

On 4/9/2018 at 3:13 PM, ShiaMan14 said:

Salaam,

This is somewhat of a cryptic post but do you believe our Imams to be more powerful or Shaytan (Iblees) to be more powerful?

Reason for either choice?

Imams, because they are the Hizbullah and they are mentioned as "Ghaliboon" by Allah (s.w.t). 

وَمَن يَتَوَلَّ اللّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ فَإِنَّ حِزْبَ اللّهِ هُمُ الْغَالِبُونَ

[ShiaMan14]

Okay, so everyone agrees that Imams are more powerful than Iblees.

The Quran states:

[Shakir 38:75] He said: O Iblis! what prevented you that you should do obeisance to him whom I created with My two hands? Are you proud or are you of the exalted ones?
[Shakir 38:76] He said: I am better than he; Thou hast created me of fire, and him Thou didst create of dust.
[Shakir 38:77] He said: Then get out of it, for surely you are driven away:
[Shakir 38:78] And surely My curse is on you to the day of judgment.
[Shakir 38:79] He said: My Lord! then respite me to the day that they are raised.
[Shakir 38:80] He said: Surely you are of the respited ones,
[Shakir 38:81] Till the period of the time made known.
[Shakir 38:82] He said: Then by Thy Might I will surely make them live an evil life, all,
[Shakir 38:83] Except Thy servants from among them, the purified ones.

Are we in agreement that a person committing a sin in Asia, another in Africa, another in America AT THE SAME TIME are all misguided by Iblees?

[SIAR14]

2 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Are we in agreement that a person committing a sin in Asia, another in Africa, another in America AT THE SAME TIME are all misguided by Iblees?

Iblees has army of Satan, Jin and Human to misguide people. They work hand in hand :-).

On 4/9/2018 at 3:25 PM, Arminmo said:

Quran 38:82,83

[Iblees] said, "By your might, I will surely mislead them all

Except, among them, Your chosen servants."

Though all of us know Hujjats of Allah are more powerful than Iblees, but then why is that more people are misgudie and less are on right track?

[ShiaMan14]

20 minutes ago, SIAR14 said:

Iblees has army of Satan, Jin and Human to misguide people. They work hand in hand :-).

Though all of us know Hujjats of Allah are more powerful than Iblees, but then why is that more people are misgudie and less are on right track?

That is a valid point that I want to discuss next.

Okay so Iblees has an army. Is his army mentioned in the Quran?

If man conquers Mars or another planet in another galaxy, will man sin there? If so, then Iblees has inter-galactic powers. Correct?

[Islandsandmirrors]

Imams. Iblees is not even the dung off a person’s shoe.

[Ashvazdanghe]

3 hours ago, SIAR14 said:

Iblees has army of Satan, Jin and Human to misguide people. They work hand in hand :-).

Though all of us know Hujjats of Allah are more powerful than Iblees, but then why is that more people are misgudie and less are on right track?

Salam Iblees (la) knows a little about nature & soul of people so sometime help humans to activate their potential abilities which they think that receive power  from Iblees (la)  but it has no divine backup and when Imam Mahdi (aj) reappears he will activate all potential abilities in his followers with divine backup from from Allah that will destroy weak & fake power of followers of Iblees (la) like snow in front of Sun, because Allah (saw) knows the soul & nature of humans completly.

وَقُلْ جَاءَ الْحَقُّ وَزَهَقَ الْبَاطِلُ ۚ إِنَّ الْبَاطِلَ كَانَ زَهُوقًا ﴿٨١﴾ وَنُنَزِّلُ مِنَ الْقُرْآنِ مَا هُوَ شِفَاءٌ وَرَحْمَةٌ لِّلْمُؤْمِنِينَ ۙ وَلَا يَزِيدُ الظَّالِمِينَ إِلَّا خَسَارًا ﴿٨٢﴾ وَإِذَا أَنْعَمْنَا عَلَى الْإِنسَانِ أَعْرَضَ وَنَأَىٰ بِجَانِبِهِ ۖ وَإِذَا مَسَّهُ الشَّرُّ كَانَ يَئُوسًا ﴿٨٣﴾ قُلْ كُلٌّ يَعْمَلُ عَلَىٰ شَاكِلَتِهِ فَرَبُّكُمْ أَعْلَمُ بِمَنْ هُوَ أَهْدَىٰ سَبِيلًا ﴿

يَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنِ الرُّوحِ ۖ قُلِ الرُّوحُ مِنْ أَمْرِ رَبِّي وَمَا أُوتِيتُم مِّنَ الْعِلْمِ إِلَّا قَلِيلًا ﴿٨٥﴾٨٤﴾ 

And say: The truth has come and the falsehood has vanished; surely falsehood is a vanishing (thing). (81) And We reveal of the Quran that which is a healing and a mercy to the believers, and it adds only to the perdition of the unjust. (82)And when We bestow favor on man, he turns aside and behaves proudly, and when evil afflicts him, he is despairing. (83) Say: Every one acts according to his manner; but your Lord best knows who is best guided in the path. (84) And they ask you about the soul. Say: The soul is one of the commands of my Lord, and you are not given aught of knowledge but a little.

http://tanzil.net/#17:85

And this is the divine law that follows the right path to the hopeful, powerful, strong and enduring problems and gives us glory and strength in all our Islamic efforts. (3)

 

                                       (3) تفسير نمونه، ج ‏12، ص 235.

Tafseer Nemooneh  ,v12 p235

http://www.askquran.ir/thread34409.html#post586139

http://www.porsemanequran.com/node/25341

 

[Urwatul Wuthqa]

14 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Are we in agreement that a person committing a sin in Asia, another in Africa, another in America AT THE SAME TIME are all misguided by Iblees?

No, if you can see his capability you will find that he can only produce waswasah. He cannot hold our hands & throw us from the prayer mat. It is we who use our own will & power in obeying his whispers. 

Shaitan is not responsible for misguidance. It is we who buy the misguidance with our will & wish. 

I was helping my son in the preparation of his Physics test yesterday. What I was doing was, to try to confuse him in finding the correct answer. I was trying to misguide him for knowing how certain he is in his answer. If he has studied the subject, he would select the correct answer with certainty. 

Perhaps Allah (s.w.t) want to produce in us the same certainty in finding & following the truth. And that's why I see the creation of Iblis as "Lutf" of Allah (s.w.t).

Surah Al-Ankaboot, Verse 2:
أَحَسِبَ النَّاسُ أَن يُتْرَكُوا أَن يَقُولُوا آمَنَّا وَهُمْ لَا يُفْتَنُونَ

Do men think that they will be left alone on saying, We believe, and not be tried?
(English - Shakir)

Every human being possess the ability to defeat iblis. This is how weak iblis is!

Edited April 11, 2018 by Salsabeel

[ShiaMan14]

1 hour ago, Salsabeel said:

No, if you can see his capability you will find that he can only produce waswasah. He cannot hold our hands & throw us from the prayer mat. It is we who use our own will & power in obeying his whispers. 

Shaitan is not responsible for misguidance. It is we who buy the misguidance with our will & wish. 

I was helping my son in the preparation of his Physics test yesterday. What I was doing was, to try to confuse him in finding the correct answer. I was trying to misguide him for knowing how certain he is in his answer. If he has studied the subject, he would select the correct answer with certainty. 

Perhaps Allah (s.w.t) want to produce in us the same certainty in finding & following the truth. And that's why I see the creation of Iblis as "Lutf" of Allah (s.w.t).

Surah Al-Ankaboot, Verse 2:
أَحَسِبَ النَّاسُ أَن يُتْرَكُوا أَن يَقُولُوا آمَنَّا وَهُمْ لَا يُفْتَنُونَ

Do men think that they will be left alone on saying, We believe, and not be tried?
(English - Shakir)

Every human being possess the ability to defeat iblis. This is how weak iblis is!

okay, so Iblees can create waswasah in people across continents and time zones.

Can Iblees create waswasah in people living on Mars? Inter-galactic waswasah?

[Akbar673]

I think a more apt question should be "Which one has more people following their guidance?"

We all know about what the Ahle Bayt (AS) have taught as to what to avoid and what to engage in. We also know about what the Shaytan tries to decieve us with regarding what to do and what to avoid.

Which one has a greater proportionate following?

Do we follow in the footsteps of the Ahle Bayt (AS) or do we give in to the temptations of the Shaitan?

[Ashvazdanghe]

48 minutes ago, ShiaMan14 said:

okay, so Iblees can create waswasah in people across continents and time zones.

Can Iblees create waswasah in people living on Mars? Inter-galactic waswasah?

Yes he can ,he is from Jins so he can easily go everywhere in sky 1 but sky2to 7 is forbidden for all Jins from birth of Prophet (pbu) 

but Imams are stronger today is that day that Imam Ali (as) lifted gate of Khaybar that nobody except him doesn’t have such power even Marhab that was overpowered by Ibliss(la)

[Arminmo]

2 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Can Iblees create waswasah in people living on Mars? Inter-galactic waswasah?

 

1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

he is from Jins so he can easily go everywhere in sky 1 but sky2to 7 is forbidden for all Jins from birth of Prophet (pbu

The thing is, we dont know from where god has identified the 2nd sky !

But according to Quran, he cant do waswasa among chosen servants.

Edited April 11, 2018 by Arminmo

[ShiaMan14]

So we all believe that Iblees can misguide or at the very least create waswasah in us even if we were on Mars or another planet in another galaxy.

We also all agree that the Imams are more powerful than Iblees.

Does it not make sense then that our Imams hold dominion over the universe?

I am amazed at the shia who in reality believe Iblees to be the most powerful being after Allah because when I say these things about the Imam they completely deny and refute it but find it fully acceptable to believe in Iblees' super powers.

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 4/11/2018 at 4:02 PM, ShiaMan14 said:

am amazed at the shia who in reality believe Iblees to be the most powerful being after Allah because when I say these things about the Imam they completely deny and refute it but find it fully acceptable to believe in Iblees' super powers.

It is the first time  that I hear somebody claims that shia sbelive that Iblees (la) is a powerful being the belief to strengthen of Iblees (la) is very powerful being is popular among Christians not Shias.

who is Shaytan?

The whispers of Satan.

America the great shaytan

https://youtu.be/cdpwFVSmyZ8

[Ali_Hussain]

19 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

That is a valid point that I want to discuss next.

Okay so Iblees has an army. Is his army mentioned in the Quran?

If man conquers Mars or another planet in another galaxy, will man sin there? If so, then Iblees has inter-galactic powers. Correct?

That logic doesn't necessarily follow as Allah also says:

And I do not declare myself free, most surely (man's) self is wont to command (him to do) evil, except such as my Lord has had mercy on, surely my Lord is Forgiving, Merciful. 12:53

[hasanhh]

On ‎4‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 3:13 PM, ShiaMan14 said:

Salaam,

This is somewhat of a cryptic post but do you believe our Imams to be more powerful or Shaytan (Iblees) to be more powerful?

Reason for either choice?

Decoded: Ayat 2:165  There is no 'choice'.

l win 

[Urwatul Wuthqa]

12 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Inter-galactic waswasah?

 Yes, he can create inter-galactic waswasah.  Example is the case of Prophet Adam.

[Ali.Isa]

On 4/9/2018 at 11:43 PM, ShiaMan14 said:

Salaam,

This is somewhat of a cryptic post but do you believe our Imams to be more powerful or Shaytan (Iblees) to be more powerful?

Reason for either choice?

Alaikom as Salam, can we think around the question and say that what satan do, it does not matter for God in case that it does not affect God's perfection and all dominion is His. But if we put fire of satan Curse upon him against light of Ahl al Bayt Peace upon Them can it affect Them negative because ahl al Bayt is Allah creation after-all. For example Wilayat of Ahl al Bayt Peace upon Them changed from khalifat into kingdoms[PS. it could be because of people]. In these kind of cases a loss is upon Ahl al Bayt or not! Please mark God gives power to both but one use it for good of guidance and the other for good of misleading. Most of the society gets tricked and follows the devil with his 'obvious true promises' and make power for satan. Could this be the case?

Kelqat noori Ahl al abyt Peace upon Them is maybe safe from satan hurting[affecting] them in that realm, but when they came to earth for the reason of guiding people and if people do not follow them then any loss in the material world is upon people and society because Ahl al Bayt Peace upon Them are The Infallible ones and not create trouble for themselves.

On 4/11/2018 at 6:59 AM, SIAR14 said:

Though all of us know Hujjats of Allah are more powerful than Iblees, but then why is that more people are misguide and less are on right track?

11 hours ago, Akbar673 said:

I think a more apt question should be "Which one has more people following their guidance?"

 

11 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

but Imams are stronger today is that day that Imam Ali (as) lifted gate of Khaybar that nobody except him doesn’t have such power even Marhab that was overpowered by Ibliss(la)

What if one comes and say it is a lie and such thing has not happened; Amir al Muminin Peace upon Him lifting the gate of Khaybar!, can you than bring reference and take help from Islamic Scholars that have graduated History for example in Qom and Najaf.

[Husayni]

On 4/9/2018 at 3:27 PM, Sirius_Bright said:

The answer is straightforward for any shia. It's the hujjate Khuda who is more powerful not the enemy of Allah.

One of the Proof: Imam Zainul Abedin (a.s.) didn't lose concentration in Salaah when Shaitan rajeem came and started chewing his toe.

What do you mean?

[Ashvazdanghe]

15 hours ago, Ali.Isa said:

Alaikom as Salam, can we think around the question and say that what satan do, it does not matter for God in case that it does not affect God's perfection and all dominion is His. But if we put fire of satan Curse upon him against light of Ahl al Bayt Peace upon Them can it affect Them negative because ahl al Bayt is Allah creation after-all. For example Wilayat of Ahl al Bayt Peace upon Them changed from khalifat into kingdoms[PS. it could be because of people]. In these kind of cases a loss is upon Ahl al Bayt or not! Please mark God gives power to both but one use it for good of guidance and the other for good of misleading. Most of the society gets tricked and follows the devil with his 'obvious true promises' and make power for satan. Could this be the case?

Kelqat noori Ahl al abyt Peace upon Them is maybe safe from satan hurting[affecting] them in that realm, but when they came to earth for the reason of guiding people and if people do not follow them then any loss in the material world is upon people and society because Ahl al Bayt Peace upon Them are The Infallible ones and not create trouble for themselves.

What if one comes and say it is a lie and such thing has not happened; Amir al Muminin Peace upon Him lifting the gate of Khaybar!, can you than bring reference and take help from Islamic Scholars that have graduated History for example in Qom and Najaf.

The story of Khaybar completely accepted by both Sunni & Shia sources even enemies of Ahlulbayt (as) accepted it that is completely a true event.

[Sirius_Bright]

12 hours ago, Hussaini624 said:

What do you mean?

Salaam brother,

Not sure, what you didn't understood. Would you care to explain?

[ShiaMan14]

12 hours ago, Ali.Isa said:

Alaikom as Salam, can we think around the question and say that what satan do, it does not matter for God in case that it does not affect God's perfection and all dominion is His. But if we put fire of satan Curse upon him against light of Ahl al Bayt Peace upon Them can it affect Them negative because ahl al Bayt is Allah creation after-all. For example Wilayat of Ahl al Bayt Peace upon Them changed from khalifat into kingdoms[PS. it could be because of people]. In these kind of cases a loss is upon Ahl al Bayt or not! Please mark God gives power to both but one use it for good of guidance and the other for good of misleading. Most of the society gets tricked and follows the devil with his 'obvious true promises' and make power for satan. Could this be the case?

Salaam,

No brother, the loss is not for the AhlulBayt for they continue to be who they are. The loss is for the ummah who is left orphaned from their leadership. Imam Ali (as) was the Imam regardless of being caliph or not.

[ShiaMan14]

If I had created this topic with the angle of "Imam Mehdi could reach us if we were on Mars", several shia members on SC would jump on my case saying that the Imam is just an Imam and not super man, etc...Yet these same people have no qualms in believe in the super powers of Iblees.

These shias believe Prophet Sulaiman spoke to ants but if say that about an Imam they will scoff at the notion and say I am doing ghuluw
These shias believe the Prophet spoke to a tree or pebbles but if I say Imams are aware of Allah's creation, they will say I am doing ghuluw.

So I will say this again, some shias (a lot???) believe more in the power of Iblees than our Imams. This is why no Imam ever got the support they truly deserved.

Reflection time for us.

[Urwatul Wuthqa]

19 minutes ago, ShiaMan14 said:

but if I say Imams are aware of Allah's creation, they will say I am doing ghuluw.

Not pointing towards you, but lets be fair, are not there shia's who genuenly do the ghuluw? 

[Urwatul Wuthqa]

With reference to OP, here is a verse:

Surah Ibrahim, Verse 22:
وَقَالَ الشَّيْطَانُ لَمَّا قُضِيَ الْأَمْرُ إِنَّ اللَّهَ وَعَدَكُمْ وَعْدَ الْحَقِّ وَوَعَدتُّكُمْ فَأَخْلَفْتُكُمْ وَمَا كَانَ لِيَ عَلَيْكُم مِّن سُلْطَانٍ إِلَّا أَن دَعَوْتُكُمْ فَاسْتَجَبْتُمْ لِي فَلَا تَلُومُونِي وَلُومُوا أَنفُسَكُم مَّا أَنَا بِمُصْرِخِكُمْ وَمَا أَنتُم بِمُصْرِخِيَّ إِنِّي كَفَرْتُ بِمَا أَشْرَكْتُمُونِ مِن قَبْلُ إِنَّ الظَّالِمِينَ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ

And the Shaitan shall say after the affair is decided: Surely Allah promised you the promise of truth, and I gave you promises, then failed to keep them to you, and I had no authority over you, except that I called you and you obeyed me, therefore do not blame me but blame yourselves: I cannot be your aider (now) nor can you be my aiders; surely I disbelieved in your associating me with Allah before; surely it is the unjust that shall have the painful punishment.
(English - Shakir)

[ShiaMan14]

1 hour ago, Salsabeel said:

Not pointing towards you, but lets be fair, are not there shia's who genuenly do the ghuluw? 

There is a very small section that does; big majority does not.

1 hour ago, Salsabeel said:

With reference to OP, here is a verse:

Surah Ibrahim, Verse 22:
وَقَالَ الشَّيْطَانُ لَمَّا قُضِيَ الْأَمْرُ إِنَّ اللَّهَ وَعَدَكُمْ وَعْدَ الْحَقِّ وَوَعَدتُّكُمْ فَأَخْلَفْتُكُمْ وَمَا كَانَ لِيَ عَلَيْكُم مِّن سُلْطَانٍ إِلَّا أَن دَعَوْتُكُمْ فَاسْتَجَبْتُمْ لِي فَلَا تَلُومُونِي وَلُومُوا أَنفُسَكُم مَّا أَنَا بِمُصْرِخِكُمْ وَمَا أَنتُم بِمُصْرِخِيَّ إِنِّي كَفَرْتُ بِمَا أَشْرَكْتُمُونِ مِن قَبْلُ إِنَّ الظَّالِمِينَ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ

And the Shaitan shall say after the affair is decided: Surely Allah promised you the promise of truth, and I gave you promises, then failed to keep them to you, and I had no authority over you, except that I called you and you obeyed me, therefore do not blame me but blame yourselves: I cannot be your aider (now) nor can you be my aiders; surely I disbelieved in your associating me with Allah before; surely it is the unjust that shall have the painful punishment.
(English - Shakir)

Brother - the is not whether Iblees misguided us or not. The issue is there are shias who believe in the utmost power of Iblees but a complete lack of power of the Imams.