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GreatOne

Why do shias regard Hussain as a martyr?

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This is very puzzling. In fact it is illogical. A martyr is someone who dies for someone else's cause. Because they believe in that cause.

Hussain died to become caliph... was this martyrdom or vain egotism?

I wonder if dying to become caliph is the central message of shiaism?

But on the other hand, hypocritically, shias don't want Sunnis to support caliphs.

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Imam Hussain did not die to become caliph. In fact none of the imams fought to take back their rightful caliphate. 

 Yazid ibn Muawiya demanded allegience from Hussain, which he refused saying ‘a person like me cannot pledge allegiance to a person like you’. For this reason Hussain gave his life to protect the sanctity and message of prophets and imams before him, hence he was a martyr. 

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2 hours ago, GreatOne said:

This is very puzzling. In fact it is illogical. A martyr is someone who dies for someone else's cause. Because they believe in that cause.

Hussain died to become caliph... was this martyrdom or vain egotism?

I wonder if dying to become caliph is the central message of shiaism?

But on the other hand, hypocritically, shias don't want Sunnis to support caliphs.

"Great one" Next time just ask the question. Don't come and post a question that features an insult directed toward Imam Hussain (as) and criticize Shia beliefs. I assume you're an insane Wahhabi because only those people would be stupid enough to attack the integrity of the Prophet's family. :angry::ranting:

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20 hours ago, Kaptsyed said:

Yazid ibn Muawiya demanded allegience from Hussain, which he refused saying ‘a person like me cannot pledge allegiance to a person like you’. For this reason Hussain gave his life to protect the sanctity and message of prophets and imams before him, hence he was a martyr. 

 

22 hours ago, GreatOne said:

Hussain died to become caliph... was this martyrdom or vain egotism?

I would like to add few points in what brother @Kaptsyed said. 

Why Hussain (asws) said that "a person like me cannot pledge allegiance to a person like you"? You need to see the famous hadith unanimously narrated by the Sunni & Shia i.e., "Hussaino minni wa ana min Hussain" (Hussain is from me and I am from Hussain). A fasiq & fajir caliph demanding allegiance from a pure soul like Hussain who is representing the Prophet (pbuh), who is the hujjat of Allah on Earth, that demand of Yazeed (Laeen) itself was disgusting. And now lets see what Allah commands us regarding with this matter

 "and do not follow him whose heart We have made unmindful to Our remembrance, and he follows his low desires and his case is one in which due bounds are exceeded." (18:28)

"Therefore wait patiently for the command of your Lord, and obey not from among them a sinner or an ungrateful one." (76:24)

I also add here that the Laeen-e-Sham (Muawiayah) who gave the caliphate to his son Yazeed (Laeen) is equally responsible for the crimes committed by his son. How is that the Sunni revere the person who fought wars with Imam Ali, who plot to kill Imam Ali, Imam Hassan & lastly gave the caliphate to his son to kill the beloved grandson of Prophet (pbuh)!  Shame on those who love Muawiyah (Laeen) and his son (Laeen) and try to obscure the great sacrifice of Imam e Mazloom (asws). Such persons are nothing but blinds, neither their sight is in tact nor are their hearts. 

وَمَن كَانَ فِي هَـذِهِ أَعْمَى فَهُوَ فِي الآخِرَةِ أَعْمَى وَأَضَلُّ سَبِيلاً

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Imam Hussain (AS) died so that all muslim ummah would know that he was imam (AS), who serves only Allah, and fears only Allah.

Yazid(LA) demanded that Imam Hussain (AS) should have submitted to his rule and declare yazid (LA) as a rightfull imam of muslims. 

Imam Hussain (AS) was forced to fight, because he can not give something that Allah has forbidden to someone.

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First of all:

Salam aleykum,

Brother it is good that you ask these questions and that you are reflecting on it but will all due respect I believe you have misunderstood what happened and I believe this is because you have not acquired enough information regarding the history of the matter nor the personality of Imam Hussain(as) nor the personality of yazeed(la) but if you heart is sincere and you wish to know for the sake of finding the truth of matters, here is some more information:

A very nice speech about Karbala and what happened there:

Information regarding the biography of Imam Hussein(as):

Information regarding the history and persona of Imam Hussein(as):

 

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4 hours ago, GreatOne said:

This is very puzzling. In fact it is illogical. A martyr is someone who dies for someone else's cause. Because they believe in that cause.

Hussain died to become caliph... was this martyrdom or vain egotism?

I wonder if dying to become caliph is the central message of shiaism?

But on the other hand, hypocritically, shias don't want Sunnis to support caliphs.

If you know anything about the tragedy of Karbalaa you wouldnt even think of that question. And by the way, I've met loads of sunnis who acknoweledge that Imam Hussein  (as) fought rightfully. A lot of them even condemn shimr and muawiya etc because they know the side opposing Imam Hussein (as)  were wrong and unjust. In fact nor often than not, sunnis and shias agree on the tragedy Karbalaa (from my experiences of debating with sunnis). The root of sunni-shia disagreements lie elsewhere. 

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OP read for yourself, form non muslims, non shias and shias

https://www.al-islam.org/articles/personalities-what-non-muslims-say-about-husayn-third-successor-prophet-muhammad

Quote

Imam Husayn was the grandson of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon them both, who was martyred by the evil forces of despotism. This is a collection of short quotations about him from a wide variety of Non-Muslim notables from around the world.

Peter J. Chelkowski

Peter J. Chelkowski Professor of Middle Eastern Studies, New York University.

• "Hussein accepted and set out from Mecca with his family and an entourage of about seventy followers. But on the plain of Kerbela they were caught in an ambush set by the … caliph, Yazid. Though defeat was certain, Hussein refused to pay homage to him. Surrounded by a great enemy force, Hussein and his company existed without water for ten days in the burning desert of Kerbela. Finally Hussein, the adults and some male children of his family and his companions were cut to bits by the arrows and swords of Yazid's army; his women and remaining children were taken as captives to Yazid in Damascus. The renowned historian Abu Reyhan al-Biruni states; "… then fire was set to their camp and the bodies were trampled by the hoofs of the horses; nobody in the history of the human kind has seen such atrocities." [Ta'ziyeh: Ritual and Drama in Iran, New York, 1979, p. 2]

Simon Ockley

Simon Ockley (1678-1720) Professor of Arabic at the University of Cambridge.

• "Then Hosein mounted his horse, and took the Koran and laid it before him, and, coming up to the people, invited them to the performances of their duty: adding, 'O God, thou art my confidence in every trouble, and my hope in all adversity!'… He next reminded them of his excellency, the nobility of his birth, the greatness of his power, and his high descent, and said, 'Consider with yourselves whether or not such a man as I am is not better than you; I who am the son of your prophet's daughter, besides whom there is no other upon the face of the earth.

Ali was my father; Jaafar and Hamza, the chief of the martyrs, were both my uncles; and the apostle of God, upon whom be peace, said both of me and my brother, that we were the chief of the youth of paradise. If you will believe me, what I say is true, for by God, I never told a lie in earnest since I had my understanding; for God hates a lie. If you do not believe me, ask the companions of the apostle of God [here he named them], and they will tell you the same. Let me go back to what I have.' They asked, 'What hindered him from being ruled by the rest of his relations.' He answered, 'God forbid that I should set my hand to the resignation of my right after a slavish manner. I have recourse to God from every tyrant that doth not believe in the day of account.'" [The History of the Saracens, London, 1894, pp. 404-5]

Reynold Alleyne Nicholson

Reynold Alleyne Nicholson (1868-1945) Sir Thomas Adams Professor of Arabic at the University of Cambridge.

• "Husayn fell, pierced by an arrow, and his brave followers were cut down beside him to the last man. Muhammadan tradition, which with rare exceptions is uniformly hostile to the Umayyad dynasty, regards Husayn as a martyr and Yazid as his murderer." [A Literary History of the Arabs, Cambridge, 1930, p. 197 ]

Robert Durey Osborn

Robert Durey Osborn (1835-1889) Major of the Bengal Staff Corps.

• "Hosain had a child named Abdallah, only a year old. He had accompanied his father in this terrible march. Touched by its cries, he took the infant in his arms and wept. At that instant, a shaft from the hostile ranks pierced the child's ear, and it expired in his father's arms. Hosain placed the little corpse upon the ground. 'We come from God, and we return to Him!' he cried; 'O Lord, give me strength to bear these misfortunes!' …

Faint with thirst, and exhausted with wounds, he fought with desperate courage, slaying several of his antagonists. At last he was cut down from behind; at the same instance a lance was thrust through his back and bore him to the ground; as the dealer of this last blow withdrew his weapon, the ill-fated son of Ali rolled over a corpse. The head was severed from the trunk; the trunk was trampled under the hoofs of the victors' horses; and the next morning the women and a surviving infant son were carried away to Koufa. The bodies of Hosain and his followers were left unburied on the spot where they fell. For three days they remained exposed to the sun and the night dews, the vultures and the prowling animals of the waste; but then the inhabitants of a neighbouring village, struck with horror that the body of a grandson of the Prophet should be thus shamefully abandoned to the unclean beasts of the field, dared the anger of Obaidallah, and interred the body of the martyr and those of his heroic friends. [Islam Under the Arabs, Delaware, 1976, pp. 126-7]

Sir William Muir

Sir William Muir (1819-1905) Scottish scholar and statesman. Held the post of Foreign Secretary to the Indian government as well as Lieutenant Governor of the Northwestern Provinces.

• "The tragedy of Karbala decided not only the fate of the caliphate, but of the Mohammedan kingdoms long after the Caliphate had waned and disappeared." [Annals of the Early Caliphate, London, 1883, pp. 441-2]

Edward G. Brown

Edward G. Brown Sir Thomas Adams Professor of Arabic and oriental studies at the University of Cambridge.

• "… a reminder of the blood-stained field of Kerbela, where the grandson of the Apostle of God fell at length, tortured by thirst and surrounded by the bodies of his murdered kinsmen, has been at anytime since then sufficient to evoke, even in the most lukewarm and heedless, the deepest emotions, the most frantic grief, and an exaltation of spirit before which pain, danger and death shrink to unconsidered trifles." [A Literary History of Persia, London, 1919, p. 227]

Ignaz Goldziher

Ignaz Goldziher (1850-1921) Famous Hungarian orientalist scholar.

• "Ever since the black day of Karbala, the history of this family … has been a continuous series of sufferings and persecutions. These are narrated in poetry and prose, in a richly cultivated literature of martyrologies - a Shi'i specialty - and form the theme of Shi'i gatherings in the first third of the month of Muharram, whose tenth day ('ashura) is kept as the anniversary of the tragedy at Karbala. Scenes of that tragedy are also presented on this day of commemoration in dramatic form (ta'ziya). 'Our feast days are our assemblies of mourning.' So concludes a poem by a prince of Shi'i disposition recalling the many mihan of the Prophet's family. Weeping and lamentation over the evils and persecutions suffered by the 'Alid family, and mourning for its martyrs: these are things from which loyal supporters of the cause cannot cease. 'More touching than the tears of the Shi'is' has even become an Arabic proverb." [Introduction to Islamic Theology and Law, Princeton, 1981, p. 179]

Edward Gibbon

Edward Gibbon (1737-1794) Considered the greatest British historian of his time.

• "In a distant age and climate the tragic scene of the death of Hosein will awaken the sympathy of the coldest reader." [The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, London, 1911, volume 5, pp. 391-2]

*****

The well-known Sunni English translator and commentator of the Qur'an, Abdullah Yusuf ‘Ali, who died in 1952 in England.

https://www.al-islam.org/articles/imam-husayn-and-his-martyrdom-abdullah-yusuf-ali

*****

The Event of Taff, The Earliest Historical Account of the Tragedy of Karbala’

https://www.al-islam.org/event-taff-earliest-historical-account-tragedy-karbala-abu-mikhnaf

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22 hours ago, GreatOne said:

This is very puzzling. In fact it is illogical. A martyr is someone who dies for someone else's cause. Because they believe in that cause.

Hussain died to become caliph... was this martyrdom or vain egotism?

I wonder if dying to become caliph is the central message of shiaism?

But on the other hand, hypocritically, shias don't want Sunnis to support caliphs.

Important question is, How did you come to this conclusion? 

What sources did you consult, what is your source of information and why do you believe it.

Basic info has been provided for you or any one else who wants to study and understand. Now Instead of us playing fetch,

You need to logically prove your claim? 

If you can't do that, your claim is hollow and will be disregarded as illogical and frivolous etc..basically a drive by ....

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21 hours ago, GreatOne said:

This is very puzzling. In fact it is illogical. A martyr is someone who dies for someone else's cause. Because they believe in that cause.

Hussain died to become caliph... was this martyrdom or vain egotism?

I wonder if dying to become caliph is the central message of shiaism?

But on the other hand, hypocritically, shias don't want Sunnis to support caliphs.

You're just a Troll. No Sunni with a modicum of valid knowledge would ask such an ignorant question. You don't have to give a care about Shia or our beliefs but don't lower yourself to asking such a pathetic question in the hopes of illiciting responses from Shia.

Learn some respect for Husain ibn Ali (AS) before you do anything else. 

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I'm very proud of our Shia members here, who, instead of responding to an incendiary question in kind, provided intelligent and thoughtful responses.  Thanks, shiachat people.  You've done well.

I think we should let the OP read and understand the provided answers.  As Imam Ali(as) said, "There is enough light for those who wish to see."

If anyone disagrees and thinks I should reopen this topic for further discussion, please PM me.  Again, great job guys.  :)

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