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In the Name of God بسم الله
Mawdudi

ALI (RA) DIDN'T TAKE PART IN ANY CONQUESTS?

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2 hours ago, SIAR14 said:

:salam:

Brother do you have haidth to support this prophecy?

 https://www.al-islam.org/shiite-encyclopedia-ahlul-bayt-dilp-team/special-specifications-imam-al-mahdi

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3 hours ago, SIAR14 said:

Brother there is no topic in it which says Imam (A.S) will invite people towards Islam after His (A.Sl) arrival, before starting wars.

I think it is implied in :

"3.Imam al-Mahdi (as) will come as soon as people become ready for him. People throughout the history were NEVER ready. They killed prophets, and Imams one after the other. However Allah continued to send prophets till He finally sent Prophet Muhammad who brought the last message at the time when the evolution of the mind of human being reached its maturity, and thus Allah provided them with the most complete and final religion. After that there was no need to send a new message."

So the measure of readiness has to be a certain level for all human on earth. Are now all human on earth well informed of Imam Mahdi a.s., Islam, and the tenets/teaching/logic at certain level ?

I with my limitation see it as it is still far away. However, there must be someones who know better than me.

Edited by myouvial
putting quotation from reference

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3 hours ago, SIAR14 said:

Brother there is no topic in it which says Imam (A.S) will invite people towards Islam after His (A.Sl) arrival, before starting wars.

https://www.al-islam.org/life-imam-al-mahdi-baqir-shareef-al-qurashi

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/234954347-online-books-on-imam-mahdi-official-thread/

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On 4/7/2018 at 6:30 PM, Mawdudi said:

Asaalaamualaikum,

I'm a Hanafi Sunni and I have recently been researching the conquests conducted after the death of Rasoolullah (saw) and tbh this is quite a depressing subject to read about. Abu Bakr waged a war against Byzantium, Umar invaded Persia, Uthman invaded East Africa and Afghanistan, the Ummayads took the rest of North Africa and Spain and so on and so on... etc. But I think to myself... WHY?  to me... all of this sounds like ISIS ideology... just expansion on steroids. Is it really an Islamic belief that we should conquer the world and enforce sharia on everyone? Id likes to think not. 

However, one interesting thing that caught my attention is that Hazrat Ali (RA) didn't take part in any conquests after the death of Rasoolullah. My Question is that is this completely true and if so then why? Many sunnies would say that it was because he was a valuable asset to the ummah and therefore stayed in Madinah and helped the Khalifas with state affairs. But that just doesn't add up, because Ali (RA) fought in all the major battles (Badr, Uhud, Khaybar etc.) and indeed he was a great warrior. SO WHAT IS THE REAL REASON THAT ALI (RA) DIDNT TAKE PART IN THESE CONQUESTS???? PLEASE EXPLAIN (USING REFERENCES)

Salaam brother,

From a pure Islamic perspective, offensive wars are not permitted. Expansionism is not permitted for the sake of land grabbing. The battles fought during the time of the Prophet were either to defend Muslims or their properties.

On 4/7/2018 at 7:57 PM, Shi3i_jadeed said:

Walaykum Salam
Its a categorical mistake to compare the Muslim conquest to isis or the like. Conquest was simply a part of life back then, either they would conquer and spread their civilization or they would be conquered, there were fundamentally no other options. Islam was not forced upon the conquered people but submitting to the Muslim empire was, they could still practice their religion. The conquests were probably the best thing the three [caliphs] who preceded Ali (as) did. That being said imam Ali (as) was not pleased with the rule of those 3, he made that clear. He did not give bay'ah to abu bakr until at least 6 months after he became the 'caliph'.  Fatima (sa) died angry at Abu Bakr after Abu Bakr and his goons went to Imam Ali's house to coerce him into giving bay'ah. After the assassination of Umar there was a council that decided who the next caliph would be. Ali (as) refused the condition of following the sunnah of abu bakr and umar so uthman became the 'caliph'. 

Absolutely not. The conquests were the worst thing they did. It was the result of these conquests that Islam became associated with barbarism.

Furthermore, Imam Ali (as) didn't give bayah. He agreed to rescind his claim to the caliphate but that is not the same as giving bayah.

Lastly, Islam preaches "live and let live" not conquer or be conquered.

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Panzerwaffe said:

^ what evidence is there that Ali regarded conquests illegal ?

 

Only thing that I know that Imam Ali(as) just advised Umar for staying at Medina instead of going to battlefront & Salman (ra) in Kasra helped the Muslims Army to conquer it peacefully nothing more.

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On 4/8/2018 at 11:25 AM, Mawdudi said:

Thanks for the reply's brothers,

So here's a QUESTION: If the Ahlulybayt would have been in charge at the times of Abu bakr, Umar and uthman and so on...would they carry out the conquests of Persia and byzantine etc? And if so would they conduct them differently and HOW?

Yes for sure don't forget jaffar died fighting against Romans and mukhtars father against Persians  

Difference would be the leaders of the armies would be more from Ansar , banu hashim banu makhzum and their allies esp from yemen

The division of spoils would be more like how prophet and Abu bakr did , umar changed that to a graded system 

No fiefdoms unlike in times of uthman

More fiscal responsibility for governors like in umars time 

Less high positions to Jews and Christians unlike in muawiyah Syria 

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Only thing that I know that Imam Ali(as) just advised Umar for staying at Medina instead of going to battlefront & Salman (ra) in Kasra helped the Muslims Army to conquer it peacefully nothing more.

Brother that was strategic advice so Muslims don't lose their caliph 

Generally the early futuhat were not as bloody as in Iraq and Syria people were already sick of Roman and sassanian tax exploitation  and the big war between them just a few years earlier

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On 4/8/2018 at 8:33 AM, AbdusSibtayn said:

No brother, I think you've misunderstood what brother @Ashvazdanghe tried to say. He is saying that he did not use the stipends for himself despite accepting them, but spent them elsewhere on other tasks, such as freeing slaves. For his personal expenses, he had khums from his followers. This is the shi'i position.

Brother Id like to see how the poor impoverished followers of imam Ali paid Khums if it was not from the stipend they got from baytulmal or their own participation in wars 

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7 minutes ago, Panzerwaffe said:

Brother Id like to see how the poor impoverished followers of imam Ali paid Khums if it was not from the stipend they got from baytulmal or their own participation in wars 

At time of Imam Ali (as) only people that were participating in war would pay Khums and non of followers  of Imam Ali (as) participated in wars & during his caliphate he was paying equal amount of  money to everyone from poor or rich without any difference from baytulmal also during time of his caliphate muslims didnt have Jihad war so they didn't pay the khums.

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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16 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

Brother Id like to see how the poor impoverished followers of imam Ali paid Khums if it was not from the stipend they got from baytulmal or their own participation in wars 

I have not denied the fact that his followers were cooperating with the government, dear brother, and perhaps under his (as) own advice. I may be mistaken, but nor do I think that all his followers were impoverished, Salman (ra), Uthman ibn Hunayf (ra) and some others were working for the government in administrative capacity, plus the Imam(as) also earned his livelihood, I can't recall them at the moment, but I have read hadiths in Sunni Sihah that mention him caring for camels and tending to palm groves as late as the reign of Uthman ibn Affan, he had grown up sons who could support him, etc etc. As it is, his needs were very few, his lifestyle very frugal, so he could make do with little money.

Of course people are going to have different interpretations of history, and weigh different evidences differently; that's the reason why denominational differences exist in the first place. I admit that i don't know much about this issue, maybe someone more knowledgeable can answer your questions. :) 

Salam.

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On 4/9/2018 at 11:23 AM, ShiaMan14 said:

Salaam brother,

From a pure Islamic perspective, offensive wars are not permitted. Expansionism is not permitted for the sake of land grabbing. The battles fought during the time of the Prophet were either to defend Muslims or their properties.

Absolutely not. The conquests were the worst thing they did. It was the result of these conquests that Islam became associated with barbarism.

Furthermore, Imam Ali (as) didn't give bayah. He agreed to rescind his claim to the caliphate but that is not the same as giving bayah.

Lastly, Islam preaches "live and let live" not conquer or be conquered.

 

 

 

 

There are quite a few narrations that mention offensive jihad in our books. The expansions spread Islam, alhamdulillah. Those who associate Islam with barbarism because of the conquests know nothing about history, I remember reading how one Christian scholar was angry at the Muslim conquerors because he felt they gave the jews too many rights and treated them too well. There is no evidence that Imam Ali (as) opposed the conquests, on the contrary he advised Umar in the conquest of Persia. Not only that but the top companions of Ali (as) participated in the conquests. I don't know where you get the idea that Islam preaches "live and let live", do you know what our Master Al Hujjat Ibn Al Hassan (as) will do when he returns? I'll just say he isn't bringing flowers.

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