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In the Name of God بسم الله

Marriage

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Marriage is a certain thing in religion, and a very important thing.. but.

What character should a pious man have towards that certain woman who he shared his heart with?

What character should the pious woman have towards the man? What is her... We can say, duties? 

Is even marriage recommended in this curropt era, where people care about looks more, or what you have on the bank account?

Last time I remember Imam Ali (as) didn't have not anything, yet he got the most important woman in the world. 

The mother of all believer.

 

Edited by Hamodiii
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On 4/5/2018 at 5:45 PM, Hamodiii said:

Marriage is a certain thing in religion, and a very important thing.. but.

What character should a pious man have towards that certain woman who he shared his heart with?

What character should the pious woman have towards the man? What is her... We can say, duties? 

Is even marriage recommended in this curropt era, where people care about looks more, or what you have on the bank account?

Last time I remember Imam Ali (as) didn't have not anything, yet he got the most important woman in the world. 

The mother of all believer.

MashAllah. Beautiful topic. Will be following with interest.

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On 4/5/2018 at 5:45 PM, Hamodiii said:

Is even marriage recommended in this curropt era,

Yes, absolutely

Read this: https://www.al-islam.org/youth-and-spouse-selection-ali-akbar-mazaheri

And this: https://www.al-islam.org/islamic-marriage-handbook-syed-athar-husayn-sh-rizvi

On 4/5/2018 at 5:45 PM, Hamodiii said:

What character should a pious man have towards that certain woman who he shared his heart with?

Quote

The rights of a husband over his wife are numerous. The most important among them is related to having physical relationship with her. The duty of a wife is to submit herself physically before her husband. This right of the husband i.e. of having a physical relationship with his wife, as and when he wants, is obviously a reciprocation of her feelings. In absence of her husband the duties of the wife include the protection of his rights, status, wealth and respect. She must not spend his wealth without his permission nor must she reveal his secrets. Rather she should be his closest confidante.
She must not let anybody inside the house without his permission in his absence. For, doing so would lead to a lot of misunderstandings which would have drastic repercussions on the sacred contract of marriage. She must value his ideas, plans and provisions that he has prepared for her and other family members and obey him under all circumstances. She must not disobey him come what may nor must she do any such thing which detracts him. Rather she must try her best to attract his attention towards herself by which both of them can lead a life of harmony.8
Imam Baqir (A.S.) says that once a lady inquired from the Holy Prophet (S) regarding the rights a husband enjoys over his wife. He (S) said,
“First and foremost is that she should obey him and refrain from disobedience. She must not donate anything from his house without his permission nor can she keep recommended fasts without his approval. She must NEVER deny him his physical rights nor deprive him of its pleasures. If she steps out of the house without his permission, the angels of the heaven and the earth, of wrath and mercy, curse her till she returns to her house.” 9

 

On 4/5/2018 at 5:45 PM, Hamodiii said:

What character should the pious woman have towards the man? What is her... We can say, duties? 

Quote

The rights of a husband over his wife are numerous. The most important among them is related to having physical relationship with her. The duty of a wife is to submit herself physically before her husband. This right of the husband i.e. of having a physical relationship with his wife, as and when he wants, is obviously a reciprocation of her feelings. In absence of her husband the duties of the wife include the protection of his rights, status, wealth and respect. She must not spend his wealth without his permission nor must she reveal his secrets. Rather she should be his closest confidante.
She must not let anybody inside the house without his permission in his absence. For, doing so would lead to a lot of misunderstandings which would have drastic repercussions on the sacred contract of marriage. She must value his ideas, plans and provisions that he has prepared for her and other family members and obey him under all circumstances. She must not disobey him come what may nor must she do any such thing which detracts him. Rather she must try her best to attract his attention towards herself by which both of them can lead a life of harmony.8
Imam Baqir (A.S.) says that once a lady inquired from the Holy Prophet (S) regarding the rights a husband enjoys over his wife. He (S) said,
“First and foremost is that she should obey him and refrain from disobedience. She must not donate anything from his house without his permission nor can she keep recommended fasts without his approval. She must NEVER deny him his physical rights nor deprive him of its pleasures. If she steps out of the house without his permission, the angels of the heaven and the earth, of wrath and mercy, curse her till she returns to her house.” 9

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On 4/5/2018 at 5:45 PM, Hamodiii said:

Marriage is a certain thing in religion, and a very important thing.. but.

What character should a pious man have towards that certain woman who he shared his heart with?

What character should the pious woman have towards the man? What is her... We can say, duties? 

Is even marriage recommended in this curropt era, where people care about looks more, or what you have on the bank account?

Last time I remember Imam Ali (as) didn't have not anything, yet he got the most important woman in the world. 

The mother of all believer.

U sure ppl care about looks more? I mean ppl have changed but we r still humankind. N I guess everyone knows looks doesnt matter!

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On 4/5/2018 at 5:45 PM, Hamodiii said:

Last time I remember Imam Ali (as) didn't have not anything, yet he got the most important woman in the world. 

You sure he had nothing?

He had the best of akhlaqs, the deepest of imans, the first to sacrafice everything he had fisabilillah, the first to do amr bil maroof wa nahi anil munkar, it terms of deeds he had the best ones, do we have all of this?

If not, what good will the looks and money do for us and what kind of a women will be attracted to man that has poor akhlaq, weak iman, is selfish, egoistic and with bad deeds and all he has going is looks and money?

Imam Ali(as) was the richest poor person of his time and his moral perfection and servitude towards Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى and His religion made his face shine brighter than any other man.

It is said that Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى created Imam Ali(as) for seyyeda Fatima(as) for no other man would be worthy to marry her otherwise.

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2 hours ago, IbnSina said:

You sure he had nothing?

He had the best of akhlaqs, the deepest of imans, the first to sacrafice everything he had fisabilillah, the first to do amr bil maroof wa nahi anil munkar, it terms of deeds he had the best ones, do we have all of this?

If not, what good will the looks and money do for us and what kind of a women will be attracted to man that has poor akhlaq, weak iman, is selfish, egoistic and with bad deeds and all he has going is looks and money?

Imam Ali(as) was the richest poor person of his time and his moral perfection and servitude towards Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى and His religion made his face shine brighter than any other man.

It is said that Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى created Imam Ali(as) for seyyeda Fatima(as) for no other man would be worthy to marry her otherwise.

I meant as in material things, I think you already knew that, aklaaq means nothing these days, brother.

Your income buy your wife, not your aklaaq, then again, the fact I compared me with Imam Ali (as)... I should have not. I feel ashamed for claiming that.

You are right.

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On 4/5/2018 at 5:45 PM, Hamodiii said:

Marriage is a certain thing in religion, and a very important thing.. but.

What character should a pious man have towards that certain woman who he shared his heart with?

What character should the pious woman have towards the man? What is her... We can say, duties? 

Is even marriage recommended in this curropt era, where people care about looks more, or what you have on the bank account?

Last time I remember Imam Ali (as) didn't have not anything, yet he got the most important woman in the world. 

The mother of all believer.

Since you live in Sweden you shall follow Swedish customs, which may be difficult when you are brought up in Iraq. Man and wife has equal rights. You cannot decide what your wife shall do, and she cannot decide what you shall do. If you love and care for eachother you can work that out. Life quality not only dependent on how you look or how much money you have got on your bank account. Maybe even less than in Iraq. A good education and interesting job for both of you is a good start.

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On 4/6/2018 at 5:55 PM, Hamodiii said:

I meant as in material things, I think you already knew that, aklaaq means nothing these days, brother.

Your income buy your wife, not your aklaaq, then again, the fact I compared me with Imam Ali (as)... I should have not. I feel ashamed for claiming that.

You are right.

Dont misunderstand me brother, It is good you think of Imam Ali(as) when trying to understand who to be going into marriage.

However even in a material sense, he had enough to provide for his family and children, they did not die out of starvation and they had a roof over their heads.

Anyways, I know for a fact that there are women who are very happy and satisfied with a simple life without extravagance, as long as the husband is a good and caring man. Akhlaq does mean something, trust me, you dont want a wife that dont appreciate the value of akhlaq to begin with.  Finding a good pious women for marriage is not easy so you need to start looking, most you will meet will not be matching for you.

Also sometimes marriage can be Allahsسُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى trial on you, whether it is finding it or being in one. It is not always paradise on earth. What will you do and who will you become when Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى tests you with a trial?

To answer your original question:

On 4/5/2018 at 5:45 PM, Hamodiii said:

What character should a pious man have towards that certain woman who he shared his heart with?

What character should the pious woman have towards the man? What is her... We can say, duties? 

We should strive towards achieving the perfect marriage and that is the marriage of Imam Ali(as) and Seyyeda Fatima(as).

As for the characteristics of a pious man towards his wife, one should strive to achieve the characteristics of Abu Turab(as).

As for the characteristics of a pious women towards her husband, one should strive to achieve the characteristics of Seyyeda Fatima(as).

But in order to strive towards reaching those characteristics, those characteristics must first be defined and we will only be able to define them by increasing our knowledge of them:

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10 hours ago, andres said:

Since you live in Sweden you shall follow Swedish customs

He shall follow the Swedish customs? 

That does not really sound like an option to me, what happened to Sweden being a free country?

I think a more accurate commandment, given that the country is supposedly free, is that:

You shall accept that people have different customs when living in a free country.

Edited by IbnSina
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2 hours ago, IbnSina said:

He shall follow the Swedish customs? 

That does not really sound like an option to me, what happened to Sweden being a free country?

I think a more accurate commandment, given that the country is supposedly free, is that:

You shall accept that people have different customs when living in a free country.

Not always so. Treating your wife according to Muslim tradition is not advisable when you live in Sweden.

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4 hours ago, andres said:

Not always so. Treating your wife according to Muslim tradition is not advisable when you live in Sweden.

So Sweden is not land of Democracy & brutally dictates its totalitarian doctrine as Democracy.

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6 hours ago, andres said:

Not always so. Treating your wife according to Muslim tradition is not advisable when you live in Sweden.

And what do you know about muslim traditions? What are you even referring to when speaking of muslim traditions?

Edited by IbnSina
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36 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

And what do you know about muslim traditions? What are you even referring to when speaking of muslim traditions?

Traditions like Man is the head of the family and the wife must be obedient. Traditions vary, womens rights are better in some Muslim nations than in others.. 

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2 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

So Sweden is not land of Democracy & brutally dictates its totalitarian doctrine as Democracy.

Sweden is democratic. Swedes can through democratic procedures change laws in Sweden. The Quran is not democratic.The laws of the Quran cannot be changed. 

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2 minutes ago, andres said:

Sweden is democratic. Swedes can through democratic procedures change laws in Sweden. The Quran is not democratic.The laws of the Quran cannot be changed. 

Neither can't the laws of the Torah or Bible be changed by democratic means. Are those books incompatible with Swedish life? Again, it is a bad analogy.

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9 minutes ago, andres said:

Sweden is democratic. Swedes can through democratic procedures change laws in Sweden. The Quran is not democratic.The laws of the Quran cannot be changed. 

democratic rules are not perfect & can’t have answer for all situations thus when you dictate & change the rules to somebody it becomes dictatorship with mask of democracy but Quran laws are prefect so it is show true democracy.

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10 minutes ago, andres said:

Traditions like Man is the head of the family and the wife must be obedient. Traditions vary, womens rights are better in some Muslim nations than in others.. 

Well, take it from someone who travels for a living, thats how it is in the absolute majority of countries around the world, whether muslim or not and from my observations both the males and females are happier in those countries because the roles suits their natural inclination better. What you are talking about are conservative gender roles so not necessarily "muslim traditions" as you call it. Are you saying that people who wish to live with conservative gender roles are not welcomed to live in "free" Sweden? 

One more questions: why would you say old and divorced Swedish men go to thailand or east europe and get wives? Its quite common actually.

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2 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Not too long ago, these were traditions in Sweden, Germany, Britain, USA. This isn't some foreign, Eastern  concept.

True, but today we are supposed to treat womens as equals.

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2 hours ago, IbnSina said:

Well, take it from someone who travels for a living, thats how it is in the absolute majority of countries around the world, whether muslim or not and from my observations both the males and females are happier in those countries because the roles suits their natural inclination better. What you are talking about are conservative gender roles so not necessarily "muslim traditions" as you call it. Are you saying that people who wish to live with conservative gender roles are not welcomed to live in "free" Sweden? 

One more questions: why would you say old and divorced Swedish men go to thailand or east europe and get wives? Its quite common actually.

There are many reasons for men to find wives in Thailand. Besides for true love, many are being suspected to do for sexual reasons. Kind of prostitution. Swedish women earn their own money, and have better possibilitues to chose their futurem

I am saying immigrants should try to adapt to the customs in the country they choose to move to. No matter which country this is. Also if that means dressing in Burka, thou very few western girls would move to such a place.

Edited by andres
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On 4/7/2018 at 3:28 PM, Ashvazdanghe said:

democratic rules are not perfect & can’t have answer for all situations thus when you dictate & change the rules to somebody it becomes dictatorship with mask of democracy but Quran laws are prefect so it is show true democracy.

Laws can not be the same today as they were 2.000 years ago. There is no such country as to have perfect laws. Swedush laws are agreed on throu democratic processes. As long as almost no Swedes find Quranic law apropiate or even fair or ethical, we are not going to implement it.

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On 4/7/2018 at 3:22 PM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Neither can't the laws of the Torah or Bible be changed by democratic means. Are those books incompatible with Swedish life? Again, it is a bad analogy.

Yes, many laws of the Torah are incompatible with modern life. Israel understood this from the very establishment of the state. 

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i have no idea about what you know. But know that men and women are equal in islam, even though they are not created equally they remain complimentary: men can't carry babies in their stomach.

Know that each gender have their rights protected, and you can have a marriage that satisfies both civil and religious law. Thank you for your attention.

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5 hours ago, andres said:

True, but today we are supposed to treat womens as equals.

Not necessarily  we are suppose to treat women with respect and decency Something disturbingly lacking in our Ummah.

Man and woman will never be equal, you don't have to look at people to know this. Look at nature and the various role differences, size and hierarchies between the genders of different animals throughout the world.

5 hours ago, andres said:

Yes, many laws of the Torah are incompatible with modern life. Israel understood this from the very establishment of the state. 

But attacking a religion revealed 1400 years  before modern democracy is a strawman fallacy. Of course it's not going to be compatible with modern democracy. 

 

On 4/6/2018 at 7:55 PM, andres said:

Since you live in Sweden you shall follow Swedish customs, which may be difficult when you are brought up in Iraq. Man and wife has equal rights. You cannot decide what your wife shall do, and she cannot decide what you shall do. If you love and care for eachother you can work that out. Life quality not only dependent on how you look or how much money you have got on your bank account. Maybe even less than in Iraq. A good education and interesting job for both of you is a good start.

Quote

Marriage is a certain thing in religion, and a very important thing.. but.

What character should a pious man have towards that certain woman who he shared his heart with?

What character should the pious woman have towards the man? What is her... We can say, duties? 

Is even marriage recommended in this curropt era, where people care about looks more, or what you have on the bank account?

Last time I remember Imam Ali (as) didn't have not anything, yet he got the most important woman in the world. 

The mother of all believer.

^Where did you get emboldened part from the OP's question? 

He wanted religious advice on what to do about marriage,  not some  snarky putdown following Swedish culture and some strawman fallacy about Islam being incompatible with democracy.

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar
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4 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

^Where did you get emboldened part from the OP's question? 

He wanted religious advice on what to do about marriage,  not some  snarky putdown following Swedish culture and some strawman fallacy about Islam being incompatible with democracy.

One of your advices was:

"The rights of a husband over his wife are numerous. The most important among them is related to having physical relationship with her. The duty of a wife is to submit herself physically before her husband. This right of the husband i.e. of having a physical relationship with his wife, as and when he wants, is obviously a reciprocation of her feelings. In absence of her husband the duties of the wife include the protection of his rights, status, wealth and respect. She must not spend his wealth without his permission nor must she reveal his secrets. Rather she should be his closest confidante.
She must not let anybody inside the house without his permission in his absence. For, doing so would lead to a lot of misunderstandings which would have drastic repercussions on the sacred contract of marriage. She must value his ideas, plans and provisions that he has prepared for her and other family members and obey him under all circumstances. She must not disobey him come what may nor must she do any such thing which detracts him. Rather she must try her best to attract his attention towards herself by which both of them can lead a life of harmony"

Most important in marriage is the husbands right to have sex?? This may be wise in many Muslim countries, but certainly not in modern democrasies where this will be regarded as a master-slave relationship. Hamodii is an Iraqi living in Sweden, therefore my advice as a counterweight to yours. 

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On 4/7/2018 at 5:32 AM, IbnSina said:

Anyways, I know for a fact that there are women who are very happy and satisfied with a simple life without extravagance, as long as the husband is a good and caring man. Akhlaq does mean something, trust me, you dont want a wife that dont appreciate the value of akhlaq to begin with.  Finding a good pious women for marriage is not easy so you need to start looking, most you will meet will not be matching for you.

That is the problem, the society creates a hungry pixel where people chase this donya, and perfection. Where is that girl that does not care about these kind of things, for what I know, she is sitting home, and we don't know what she is or what she was, I think we need to make a move, from both sides. Allah said he is by our side, but he doesn't help someone who does not help himself/herself.

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6 hours ago, andres said:

Most important in marriage is the husbands right to have sex?? This may be wise in many Muslim countries, but certainly not in modern democrasies where this will be regarded as a master-slave relationship. Hamodii is an Iraqi living in Sweden, therefore my advice as a counterweight to yours. 

He might be interested in it, I personally am not. There is more life than just sex but on the other hand denial of sex is what kills marriages or causes people to go to look at porn. Once you get into porn, it is very hard to quit, not to mention if you look at the wrong thing, you could into serious legal trouble. Therefore, I think it is important not to deny sex for both man and woman equally. 

The important thing you need to understand is, as long as Muslims abide by Swedish legal rules and respect Swedish customs, Sweden will always protect the freedom of religion and our right to live and how we live, within reason of course. Even if our gender roles disgust the average Swede. 

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2 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

He might be interested in it, I personally am not. There is more life than just sex but on the other hand denial of sex is what kills marriages or causes people to go to look at porn. Once you get into porn, it is very hard to quit, not to mention if you look at the wrong thing, you could into serious legal trouble. Therefore, I think it is important not to deny sex for both man and woman equally. 

The important thing you need to understand is, as long as Muslims abide by Swedish legal rules and respect Swedish customs, Sweden will always protect the freedom of religion and our right to live and how we live, within reason of course. Even if our gender roles disgust the average Swede. 

 A good sexual relationship comes from mutual love, not the other way around. A wife that does not feel attracted to her husband, but has got the duty to have sex with him whenever he demands is in a miserable situation. Maybe we cannot expect a Book from the 7th century to agree with this, but Swedish Muslims living today ought to understand. If she refuses sex, and he forces her to, it is rape according to Swedish law. Even when within marriage it is punishable. Swedish women will most likely not accept such treatment. Many Muslim women born in Sweden will also not. 

Edited by andres
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14 hours ago, andres said:

One of your advices was:

"The rights of a husband over his wife are numerous. The most important among them is related to having physical relationship with her. The duty of a wife is to submit herself physically before her husband. This right of the husband i.e. of having a physical relationship with his wife, as and when he wants, is obviously a reciprocation of her feelings. In absence of her husband the duties of the wife include the protection of his rights, status, wealth and respect. She must not spend his wealth without his permission nor must she reveal his secrets. Rather she should be his closest confidante.
She must not let anybody inside the house without his permission in his absence. For, doing so would lead to a lot of misunderstandings which would have drastic repercussions on the sacred contract of marriage. She must value his ideas, plans and provisions that he has prepared for her and other family members and obey him under all circumstances. She must not disobey him come what may nor must she do any such thing which detracts him. Rather she must try her best to attract his attention towards herself by which both of them can lead a life of harmony"

Most important in marriage is the husbands right to have sex?? This may be wise in many Muslim countries, but certainly not in modern democrasies where this will be regarded as a master-slave relationship. Hamodii is an Iraqi living in Sweden, therefore my advice as a counterweight to yours. 

Timeless laws of Islam

https://youtu.be/KSorDu1Cgo0

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2 minutes ago, andres said:

A good sexual relationship comes from mutual love, not the other way around. A wife that does not feel attracted to her husband, but has got the duty to have sex with him whenever he demands is in a miserable situation. If she refuses, and he forces her to, it is rape according to Swedish law

Hence, I said I wasn't terribly interested in the advice because I had friends in such situations. Even with that in mind, most Muslims observe the culture of the country we live in.  By the way,  a good marriage involves mutual respect which comes before mutual love.

Now, looking back at my post, I realize how irresponsible it was of me to quote that book. 

@Hamodiii Don't follow that advice I gave you, you could get in serious trouble. 

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5 hours ago, andres said:

 A good sexual relationship comes from mutual love, not the other way around. A wife that does not feel attracted to her husband, but has got the duty to have sex with him whenever he demands is in a miserable situation. Maybe we cannot expect a Book from the 7th century to agree with this, but Swedish Muslims living today ought to understand. If she refuses sex, and he forces her to, it is rape according to Swedish law. Even when within marriage it is punishable. Swedish women will most likely not accept such treatment. Many Muslim women born in Sweden will also not. 

I think your perception of how muslim are and how muslims actually are is quite different and I think most of the times you speak of muslims or islam in general you dont actually have a clue of what your talking about. Much how you think you know what Iranian people think and feel without actually knowing anything about Iran nor its people.

I do not think any muslim man would force sex on his wife when she refuses, we are humans too, did you know?

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