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Aflower

Double Standards

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On 4/5/2018 at 7:06 PM, Ron_Burgundy said:

What is wrong with his dressing man. Share the image of him where you think he dressed inappropriately. Usually moulana dress their clothes imama that white dress. If he wares suit or pants and shirts. I don’t think that’s inappropriate.

Don’t forget he has other jobs as well. He is just not a regular moulana. He has other things going as well. 

In 2014, Nakshawani was included in the list of The 500 Most Influential Muslims (also known as The Muslim 500, an annual publication first published in 2009) in the "Preachers and Spiritual Guides" section.[5]

University of Cambridge

Nakshavani served as a Visiting Scholar of Islamic Studies and performed advanced research and academic analysis of Shia historic texts.

Hartford Seminary

Nakshawani served as the inaugural chair of the Imam Ali Chair in Shi'a Studies at Harftord Seminary.

Columbia University

In 2016, Columbia University announced that Dr. Nakshawani would serve as a Visiting Scholar.

Harvard University

Dr. Nakshawani is an Associate of the Iran Project at Harvard Kennedy School’s Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs. His focus is on Islamic political as well as conflict and peace building in the Middle East.

from wiki. 

@Ron_Burgundy

I think unfortunately a lot of things have got lost in translation here. Here is what I wrote on the Nakshwani post to Hussaini624:

I just saw yr message after I posted mine. I think we are both in agreement here with regards to the fact that his lectures have excellent content. There is no denying that. Alongside religion, he references theology, philosophy, human psychology, geography etc. and no doubt that takes a lot of research and hard work. Kudos to him for that. 

This topic is not about running Nakshwani down and hence it is most definitely not gheebat. We are discussing what is appropriate clothes for a man; especially one who sits on a pulpit and is in a position of influence. I am a Syed myself (I note you refer to him as Sayed) and I would not bring down a fellow brother who is doing so much good. 

I personally have no issues with his clothes as they are, but any tighter and he will quite literally be bursting out of them. I am sure that IN REALITY the men would not feel comfortable seeing a woman wearing skin tight clothes on the pulpit/whilst lecturing about Islam either and the same applies vice versa. 

FOR THE RECORD this post IS NOT ABOUT GHEEBAT but about 2 things:

1) Should religious scholars lead by example - especially when they are in a place of influence such as on the media.? What they do in their down time/personal time is of course their choice.

2) There are so many rulings about women dressing modestly; does the same not apply to men?"

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Hussaini624 responded "I see, Good points". 

@Ron_Burgundy Hussaini624 understood that I was NOT referring to Nakshwani, and I have reiterated this again. I have explained why I referenced his name too but if people want to drag this out so be it. 

If people have not read both threads PROPERLY they will not follow what has happened. 

I've shown both threads to someone else and they've said to me that both threads are intertwined and that is why people are getting confused. 

You have listed out Nakshwani's qualifications. I don't know why. I didn't question his credentials did I?

If anyone feels that my friend is make believe, then so be it. I'm not bothered.  

I have written:

1) Should religious scholars lead by example - especially when they are in a place of influence such as on the media.? What they do in their down time/personal time is of course their choice.

Scholars - NOT NAKSHWANI

Also, honestly I could find pictures but that really wouldn't be appropriate would it? With hindsight I get the point that I shouldn't have referred to him as an reference point on a public forum. BUT I've already acknowledged that myself at the beginning of the post however, some people conveniently ignore that so they can continue their rant. Whatever rocks someones boat I guess. 

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6 hours ago, Hamodiii said:

@Aflower

People tend to take what they enjoy for themselves, that is not what Islam is about. That goes for both genders, we tend to forget that women don't work for us, they don't belong to us, they are a gift from Allah, and we have to take care of them, like they were valuable things, not objects, just that they are precious. People say I will be happy if i get whatever I want in Jannah, when people don't realize that Allah already created Jannah on Earth, you just have to believe in him, and trust him with all your heart. Cause one day they will realize when women will fight back. The day you regret showing her a critical, and a hurtful fist, is the day you sit behind the resturang table, thinking of a new wife, still not knowning the value of women.... It is absurd.

Then again... We can have a list where men are attacked more than women, and If we got deeper in the dissucision, I tend to not understand them, cause women have the right, but blindly rush in to complain, when men tend to stay silent knowning that emotions of a man is not acceptable in this soceity. Actually the laws in both ways needs some a hit up, In today society is where a woman needs to collect her own savings, cause she can't trust her husband, and the man can't show emotions to not downgrade himself, It is absurd, and people call this justice. I rather see a trump wall in front of my face, a wall that is easily missed, cause It's always I... Who are you? Why are you even arrogant? What do you think you are? What made you better than her? Or what made you better than him? 

MashAllah brother @Hamodiii. Thank you so very much for your contribution, for staying on topic and not digressing. 

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5 hours ago, Aflower said:

Should religious scholars lead by example - especially when they are in a place of influence such as on the media.? What they do in their down time/personal time is of course their choice.

I think you're confused. I've said on your previous thread that "Ammar Nakashwani" is not a scholar to start with. Therefore why did you name this thread "Ammar Nakashwani" then talk about "Scholars" leading examples. 

There are plenty of Shiite scholars who wear a traditional attire like Mohammad Shomali, Shiekh Hamza Sodagar etc. And I personally consider them to be qualified worthy of having a scholar status.

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Just now, ali_fatheroforphans said:

I think your confused. I've said on your previous thread that "Ammar Nakashwani" is not a scholar to start with. Therefore why did you make the name of the thread "Ammar Nakashwani" then talk about "Scholars" leading examples. 

There are plenty of Shiite scholars who wear a traditional attire like Mohammad Shomali, Shiekh Hamza Sodagar etc. And I personally consider them to be qualified worthy of having a scholar status.

@ali_fatheroforphansThank you for your comment BUT please note that the Nakshwani thread has been officially closed. This thread is about Double Standards. Please kindly be civil, please don't pick a fight unnecessarily and please kindly limit yourself to discussing the topic of this thread. We are not in kindergarten to score points against one another. Please be mature. That post on Nakshwani is closed/dead/finito. Please only discuss the topic on hand. As the OP I am officially requesting no off topic discussions going forwards please. JazakAllah

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13 minutes ago, Aflower said:

BUT please note that the Nakshwani thread has been officially closed. This thread is about Double Standards. Please kindly be civil, please don't pick a fight unnecessarily and please kindly limit yourself to discussing the topic of this thread. We are not in kindergarten to score points against one another. Please be mature

Okay fair enough, lets forget about Ammar Nakashwani. I apologize If I offended you.

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6 hours ago, Aflower said:

So, is this how it works? We drag everything out. Ok... here we go again!

Yes, I know that the dress code for men and women are different. Luckily, I'd figured that out a while ago but thanks for the reminder. 

No question is a stupid question when you are learning. She asked me a question - I put it forward on the forum. For the record, she is learning about the usul-e-deen too. I am not going to alienate her by pointing out the obvious am I? Anyway, she may deem that as a subjective matter and argue something else. 

Is there any value in this post of yours brother? Seriously??? I am going to log off and read the Quran now rather than wasting my life on this. But please do continue posting if you wish... I just won't be here to respond.

Its quite funnny that you post a question and then get offended because you don't get the answers that you are looking for.

If you had figured out for yourself that men and women have a different dress code, then you wouldn't be complaining about double standards. 

The standards are different. So you can question why the dress codes are different and it would be valid but calling out double standard for different things is quite immature.

I eat apples with the skin; I peel oranges and eat the flesh - OMG I have double standards in consuming fruit. That is essentially what you are doing. I am just being blase & upfront and if you don't like my attitude then you have double standards.

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There unfortunately is double standards in every aspect of life but in our religious one it should be the duty of both men and women to remind one another of their obligations as Muslims. I would welcome any advice from a Muslim woman on any issue if it would make me a better Muslim. 

@Aflower @ali_fatheroforphans

Good display of resolve and brotherhood between you two, Masha'Allah. :grin:

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Apologetics...........

I think i'm having dyspepsia ........people seriously need to look into things rather than giving knee-jerk responses.

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There unfortunately is double standards in every aspect of life but in our religious one it should be the duty of both men and women to remind one another of their obligations as Muslims. I would welcome any advice from a Muslim woman on any issue if it would make me a better Muslim. 

@Aflower @ali_fatheroforphans

Good display of resolve and brotherhood between you two, Masha'Allah. :grin:

Thank you @Wholehearted Shi'a for always being a voice of reason. 

Edited by Aflower

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On 4/5/2018 at 6:04 PM, Saajida said:

I've been waiting for this post. 

There is indeed double standards in terms of hijab. It annoys me so much. First of all, Men shouldn't even be allowed to comment on a sister's dressing since its not his place to talk (i.e. he doesn't wear a head scarf so he doesn't understand the difficulties some ladies face with it so he should just be quiet). Also they say it bothers the so called 'religious men' or puts them in a difficult situation. If the man cares so much about hijab his gaze should be lowered to begin so it wont bother him. plus there are non muslims walking around without hijab too and plenty of skin on display so the men need to focus on preserving their own hijab. If they feel something by seeing a sister's ankles even though everyhing else is covered maybe he is the one who should turn to god for guidance. else he will have a hard time doing every day things. 

On the other hand, If a sister gives advice to another woman that she herself follows there is no problem since they are on the same journey and can relate to the difficulties. However to the men who sit there half naked and gaze at non religious women shamelessly and then tells a sister 'your hair is showing.' Just sit down brother.

HAAHA...SO True!!

The Men who get turned on by looking at female ankle or Whatever then he seriously got some issues HE MUST Consult his doctor and Religion. 

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28 minutes ago, Be Human First said:

HAAHA...SO True!!

The Men who get turned on by looking at female ankle or Whatever then he seriously got some issues HE MUST Consult his doctor and Religion. 

I agree with you. Some so called "religious men" get turned on by looking at 'female ankle' and they will shame a sister for not dressing a certain way. However they go to instagram and like the photos of non-Muslim girls who wear mini skirts etc. 

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Just now, ali_fatheroforphans said:

I agree with you. Some so called "religious men" get turned on by looking at 'female ankle' and they will shame a sister for not dressing a certain way. However they go to instagram and like the photos of non-Muslim girls who wear mini skirts etc. 

 

 

Indeed.

Life is so bautiful and simple when we stop judging others, I've been the nearly same (judgemental) as benig raised by strict religous family but sadly majority of times things taught through religious loud speakers are hidden with personal/tradiational customs or some unknown things which take years to realise.

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20 hours ago, yusur317 said:

Salam 

I think a lot of brothers here are misunderstanding the purpose of this topic. Ignoring the grave sin of using Nakshawani as an example, she asks why there is little attention paid to a man's dress code.

I will be digressing, but I just wanted to add some things. Because I don't think reflecting the treatment of women and projecting it onto men, will help either gender. I just wish for men to understand how difficult it is for a woman to accept or even love her hijab. We struggle a lot, ... we do. This is why I sometimes feel a little envious of men. So I just hope you come understand and empathise. Allow a woman to freely dissect, understand and develop her relationship with the hijab. 

We aggressively reinforce a female uniform, but there is none for a man to adhere to. A woman wears her religion like a banner, but a man is free to assimilate and even marry of different people (ahl alkitab). A man who is better/well received outside our community and with greater cultural freedoms within our community, can't begin to understand a woman's struggle. Wherever she turns, she is hurt. Hijab when forced, is no different to branding a girl. She won't associate it with worship. The Hijab will make her stand out among her peers, so she needs to posses confidence to tolerate that. If her skin colour didn't separate her, her hijab will forever remind her she is different. Her peers won't hesitate to help remind her either. Almost everything becomes about the hijab, the religion, politics and her culture. I see no problem for this if a mature teen/woman decides to wear the hijab, but a young girl of 9 years is still growing and barely understands. She still needs to establish her confidence and character without judgement from peers or society. If it's forced and she feels that isolation and discrimination, she will develop hate towards it and anger towards her parents. She hears mean comments from her peers and mean comments from her community. She's left stuck in-between pleasing neither and falling into a pit of spiralling confusion. Eventually she's left with one thought, "What's the point?" ... I think many of us have met women who have decided to remove the hijab. This is not a decision that would have been made over night. Hijab is a 'till death do us part' commitment. To remove it, is almost like a divorce; it's caused by a poor/dysfunctional relationship (with the hijab). Anyway.... I digress. I just wanted to voice some of my thoughts ...

I am former scarfy/Hijabi but it didnt help me in anyway rather i have been through discrimination, I was strong enough due to my speaking abilities to rationalise my reasoning. But later i got in to deep thinking of Hijab and its purpose. I intentionally removed it I roamed out on many streets of Western Country that i live in, and I have been welcomed, not a bloody single person asked me if i am muslim or christian or whatever. I have been in gatherings of men/women colleagues after work and few casual meetings with different religious groups and I dressed myself in modest western attire with skirts, heels, perfumed , glamourous. Not a bloody single person of western society gazed an lusturious sneak at me andand those who liked me they sent an decent proposal to my family. When we shared long conversations or instant or last minute gatherings they all enjoyed drink but before priotising their drinks and food, they kept my choices in concern. They aranged fruit juices and veg/halal food because i told them i dont drink as it drastically affects one's mental being. Why on earth never a bloody man of those gatherings asked me for a kiss, or a night or anything? Wheras when i few times visited my own society people in decent dressing and without a hijab (Intentionally) they deemed me a girl who has no religion in her heart , who is unacceptable in families, and they are not people who eat pork/bacon surprisingly they are those who organise majaalis/melads nazar niyaz and call people on path of Ahlulbayt or Islam. 

 

WHAT AN HYPOCRITES....

And all this self assessment/tests i have conducted was for 3years.... not 3 days...And the only result i got is.. Our Men are simply fearful of women over ruling him or taking equal control of this Earth & its Happenings. So how to control and get her soul/body under control is to PUT A BIG , Illogical , Unrationales, Disgusted, Distorted traditional and religious sayings and make her FEARFUL and WEAK And LIFE LESS FOREVER till the very last woman on this earth dies.

 

I Hate it , Hate it , Hate this Hypocrite community Who Abuse Ahlulbayt a.s everyday by quoting their own evil thoughts to Women.

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Salam sister, 

I understand the trouble you have experienced while wearing your hijab. I have faced some too, though fortunately none of them were aggressive. But I have friends and family who've had the misfortune of running into sick minded people. I think within our community the purpose of our hijab has been placed in a false frame. I think it often focuses on men- it hides a woman's beauty, it protects her from assault, it protects her from a perverted gaze etc. In reality, I think a woman develops her own purpose for her hijab. Personally, I believe the hijab was gifted to us by God. God chose the delicate, nurturing, patient and softer gender to represent Islam. Humans are far more likely to approach a woman than they are a man. Women are simply more appealing, attractive and approachable. Note how I mentioned that everything in my life has become about religion, culture and politics. It opens a doorway to introduce Islam to strangers who would otherwise never ask and never hear its message. It's an honourable task assigned to us by God. The reason I don't believe this to be a universal purpose for women is because, individual women -like men- live under different circumstances. For example, many Muslim women live in predominantly Muslim countries. Long ago, many women rarely left their homes or walked further than their local market. These women would have their hijab serving a different purpose.   

Related image  vs.  Image result for indian man flower field....who would you approach? 

 

There are always two sides to a coin. The hijab has its burdens, but it also comes with gifts. :muslima:

 

Edited by yusur317

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