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In the Name of God بسم الله
Aflower

Double Standards

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@Mods. Yes, I agree with @Nitidum for the first time in my life. This post needs to be closed down please because otherwise we will all be subjected to @Nitidum continued words of wisdom. Sarcasm intended.:hahaha: There is nothing more to add to this thread. 

 

Edited by Aflower

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@Aflower I hope you don't think I have double standards after I defended Ammar Nakashwani in the previous thread.

There are a lot of useless hijab threads where the male users bash women and discuss how a woman should dress, and I was clearly against those users (If you ever read those posts). Therefore don't generalize that everyone has double standards, just because your previous thread got locked.

Anyway I think it is inappropriate for you to discuss the outer appearance of Ammar Nakashwani.  I don't think Ammar Nakashwani is going against the Sharia to start with. 

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

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@Aflower

People tend to take what they enjoy for themselves, that is not what Islam is about. That goes for both genders, we tend to forget that women don't work for us, they don't belong to us, they are a gift from Allah, and we have to take care of them, like they were valuable things, not objects, just that they are precious. People say I will be happy if i get whatever I want in Jannah, when people don't realize that Allah already created Jannah on Earth, you just have to believe in him, and trust him with all your heart. Cause one day they will realize when women will fight back. The day you regret showing her a critical, and a hurtful fist, is the day you sit behind the resturang table, thinking of a new wife, still not knowning the value of women.... It is absurd.

Then again... We can have a list where men are attacked more than women, and If we got deeper in the dissucision, I tend to not understand them, cause women have the right, but blindly rush in to complain, when men tend to stay silent knowning that emotions of a man is not acceptable in this soceity. Actually the laws in both ways needs some a hit up, In today society is where a woman needs to collect her own savings, cause she can't trust her husband, and the man can't show emotions to not downgrade himself, It is absurd, and people call this justice. I rather see a trump wall in front of my face, a wall that is easily missed, cause It's always I... Who are you? Why are you even arrogant? What do you think you are? What made you better than her? Or what made you better than him? 

Edited by Hamodiii

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@ali_fatheroforphans

OK, did I say that I personally think that Nakshwani dresses inappropriately? I have not anywhere in the thread said it's my viewpoint have I? I've stated my friends viewpoint. I didn't say that Nakshwani is going against shariah did I? Why are you misquoting me? I have already explained all this above. 

People tend to make sweeping statements when they are posting a topic heading. Clearly the topic is up for discussion. Thank you for your contribution.

I think a lot of people are acting holier than thou at the moment just to make a point for the sake of making a point. Of course if a man says it its one thing.... @Ashvazdanghe said the following in the Nakshwani post:

1 hour ago, Aflower said:

"Salam but his outer appearance cause distraction , I prefer his Audios"

and

"Salam his dress code ruins affection of his speeches ,when for 1 hour I just see him with odd outer, I cant concentrate on his speech from middle of it,this is also for non shias specially  anti shias causes just joking about him and they dont listen to his lectures carefully."

Why didn't you address him? Is he not discussing Nakshwani's clothing? How come not one person is saying anything to him? 

ALSO, FOR THE RECORD AND AT THE EXPENSE OF REPEATING MYSELF - THE PREVIOUS POST WAS NOT INTENDED TO BE ABOUT NAKSHWANI.

@mods - may be the post should be locked? Sadly, it's turned into a rant rather than being an constructive, lucid discussion. 

Edited by Aflower

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I've been waiting for this post. 

There is indeed double standards in terms of hijab. It annoys me so much. First of all, Men shouldn't even be allowed to comment on a sister's dressing since its not his place to talk (i.e. he doesn't wear a head scarf so he doesn't understand the difficulties some ladies face with it so he should just be quiet). Also they say it bothers the so called 'religious men' or puts them in a difficult situation. If the man cares so much about hijab his gaze should be lowered to begin so it wont bother him. plus there are non muslims walking around without hijab too and plenty of skin on display so the men need to focus on preserving their own hijab. If they feel something by seeing a sister's ankles even though everyhing else is covered maybe he is the one who should turn to god for guidance. else he will have a hard time doing every day things. 

On the other hand, If a sister gives advice to another woman that she herself follows there is no problem since they are on the same journey and can relate to the difficulties. However to the men who sit there half naked and gaze at non religious women shamelessly and then tells a sister 'your hair is showing.' Just sit down brother.

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6 hours ago, Aflower said:

@ali_fatheroforphans

OK, did I say that I personally think that Nakshwani dresses inappropriately? I have not anywhere in the thread said it's my viewpoint have I? I've stated my friends viewpoint. I didn't say that Nakshwani is going against shariah did I? Why are you misquoting me? I have already explained all this above. 

People tend to make sweeping statements when they are posting a topic heading. Clearly the topic is up for discussion. Thank you for your contribution.

I think a lot of people are acting holier than thou at the moment just to make a point for the sake of making a point. Of course if a man says it its one thing.... @Ashvazdanghe said the following in the Nakshwani post:

Why didn't you address him? Is he not discussing Nakshwani's clothing? How come not one person is saying anything to him? 

ALSO, FOR THE RECORD AND AT THE EXPENSE OF REPEATING MYSELF - THE PREVIOUS POST WAS NOT INTENDED TO BE ABOUT NAKSHWANI.

@mods - may be the post should be locked? Sadly, it's turned into a rant rather than being an constructive, lucid discussion. 

I thought I was pretty constructive:

9 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Back to the topic - you can't say there are double standards because the Islamic dress code for men and women are different. What is wrong is applying the same standard to both when clearly they are different. The actual issue is not a double standard when it comes to dressing but man inherent nature to want to control woman.

Lastly in the interest of being blase and upfront, your friend should be concerned about the usul-e-deen rather than someone's dress code. I can assure you that Nakshwani's dress code is more acceptable and approachable for non-Muslims than a wahabi scholar's (shorts pants, long unkept beard, huge turban, etc).

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6 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:
  3 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Back to the topic - you can't say there are double standards because the Islamic dress code for men and women are different. What is wrong is applying the same standard to both when clearly they are different. The actual issue is not a double standard when it comes to dressing but man inherent nature to want to control woman.

Lastly in the interest of being blase and upfront, your friend should be concerned about the usul-e-deen rather than someone's dress code. I can assure you that Nakshwani's dress code is more acceptable and approachable for non-Muslims than a wahabi scholar's (shorts pants, long unkept beard, huge turban, etc).

So, is this how it works? We drag everything out. Ok... here we go again!

Yes, I know that the dress code for men and women are different. Luckily, I'd figured that out a while ago but thanks for the reminder. 

No question is a stupid question when you are learning. She asked me a question - I put it forward on the forum. For the record, she is learning about the usul-e-deen too. I am not going to alienate her by pointing out the obvious am I? Anyway, she may deem that as a subjective matter and argue something else. 

Is there any value in this post of yours brother? Seriously??? I am going to log off and read the Quran now rather than wasting my life on this. But please do continue posting if you wish... I just won't be here to respond.

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6 hours ago, Aflower said:

Why didn't you address him? Is he not discussing Nakshwani's clothing? How come not one person is saying anything to him? 

I actually didn't pay attention to it - but yeah I don't agree with ashvazdanghe at all.

Anyway, you can always make a point without a reference to a speaker, and Yes I think it is inappropriate to bring Ammar Nakashwani up, because a lot of keyboard warriors do judge him. You even named the thread "Ammar Nakashwani".

You wrote a question in a very smart when you said "my friend said", which suggested to me that you just wanted to not take the blame. The references made by your friends were not appropriate such as "eyebrows done" etc. Then what gives you a free ticket to use Ammar Nakashwani as an example to reinforce a point you wanna make? Can't you just make a general thread?

Also you said "But if a woman points out that a mans clothing is inappropriate or attempts to discuss what is appropriate clothing for men, then she is shamed and silenced!". 

Do you also realize that there was a hijab thread where a lot of male users got criticized for discussing how a woman should dress? 

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On 4/5/2018 at 1:20 PM, Aflower said:

Should religious scholars lead by example - especially when they are in a place of influence such as on the media.? What they do in their down time/personal time is of course their choice.

What is wrong with his dressing man. Share the image of him where you think he dressed inappropriately. Usually moulana dress their clothes imama that white dress. If he wares suit or pants and shirts. I don’t think that’s inappropriate.

Don’t forget he has other jobs as well. He is just not a regular moulana. He has other things going as well. 

In 2014, Nakshawani was included in the list of The 500 Most Influential Muslims (also known as The Muslim 500, an annual publication first published in 2009) in the "Preachers and Spiritual Guides" section.[5]

University of Cambridge

Nakshavani served as a Visiting Scholar of Islamic Studies and performed advanced research and academic analysis of Shia historic texts.

Hartford Seminary

Nakshawani served as the inaugural chair of the Imam Ali Chair in Shi'a Studies at Harftord Seminary.

Columbia University

In 2016, Columbia University announced that Dr. Nakshawani would serve as a Visiting Scholar.

Harvard University

Dr. Nakshawani is an Associate of the Iran Project at Harvard Kennedy School’s Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs. His focus is on Islamic political as well as conflict and peace building in the Middle East.

from wiki. 

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Double standards are everywhere in the world. 

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On 4/5/2018 at 7:06 PM, Ron_Burgundy said:

What is wrong with his dressing man. Share the image of him where you think he dressed inappropriately. Usually moulana dress their clothes imama that white dress. If he wares suit or pants and shirts. I don’t think that’s inappropriate.

Don’t forget he has other jobs as well. He is just not a regular moulana. He has other things going as well. 

In 2014, Nakshawani was included in the list of The 500 Most Influential Muslims (also known as The Muslim 500, an annual publication first published in 2009) in the "Preachers and Spiritual Guides" section.[5]

University of Cambridge

Nakshavani served as a Visiting Scholar of Islamic Studies and performed advanced research and academic analysis of Shia historic texts.

Hartford Seminary

Nakshawani served as the inaugural chair of the Imam Ali Chair in Shi'a Studies at Harftord Seminary.

Columbia University

In 2016, Columbia University announced that Dr. Nakshawani would serve as a Visiting Scholar.

Harvard University

Dr. Nakshawani is an Associate of the Iran Project at Harvard Kennedy School’s Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs. His focus is on Islamic political as well as conflict and peace building in the Middle East.

from wiki. 

@Ron_Burgundy

I think unfortunately a lot of things have got lost in translation here. Here is what I wrote on the Nakshwani post to Hussaini624:

I just saw yr message after I posted mine. I think we are both in agreement here with regards to the fact that his lectures have excellent content. There is no denying that. Alongside religion, he references theology, philosophy, human psychology, geography etc. and no doubt that takes a lot of research and hard work. Kudos to him for that. 

This topic is not about running Nakshwani down and hence it is most definitely not gheebat. We are discussing what is appropriate clothes for a man; especially one who sits on a pulpit and is in a position of influence. I am a Syed myself (I note you refer to him as Sayed) and I would not bring down a fellow brother who is doing so much good. 

I personally have no issues with his clothes as they are, but any tighter and he will quite literally be bursting out of them. I am sure that IN REALITY the men would not feel comfortable seeing a woman wearing skin tight clothes on the pulpit/whilst lecturing about Islam either and the same applies vice versa. 

FOR THE RECORD this post IS NOT ABOUT GHEEBAT but about 2 things:

1) Should religious scholars lead by example - especially when they are in a place of influence such as on the media.? What they do in their down time/personal time is of course their choice.

2) There are so many rulings about women dressing modestly; does the same not apply to men?"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hussaini624 responded "I see, Good points". 

@Ron_Burgundy Hussaini624 understood that I was NOT referring to Nakshwani, and I have reiterated this again. I have explained why I referenced his name too but if people want to drag this out so be it. 

If people have not read both threads PROPERLY they will not follow what has happened. 

I've shown both threads to someone else and they've said to me that both threads are intertwined and that is why people are getting confused. 

You have listed out Nakshwani's qualifications. I don't know why. I didn't question his credentials did I?

If anyone feels that my friend is make believe, then so be it. I'm not bothered.  

I have written:

1) Should religious scholars lead by example - especially when they are in a place of influence such as on the media.? What they do in their down time/personal time is of course their choice.

Scholars - NOT NAKSHWANI

Also, honestly I could find pictures but that really wouldn't be appropriate would it? With hindsight I get the point that I shouldn't have referred to him as an reference point on a public forum. BUT I've already acknowledged that myself at the beginning of the post however, some people conveniently ignore that so they can continue their rant. Whatever rocks someones boat I guess. 

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6 hours ago, Hamodiii said:

@Aflower

People tend to take what they enjoy for themselves, that is not what Islam is about. That goes for both genders, we tend to forget that women don't work for us, they don't belong to us, they are a gift from Allah, and we have to take care of them, like they were valuable things, not objects, just that they are precious. People say I will be happy if i get whatever I want in Jannah, when people don't realize that Allah already created Jannah on Earth, you just have to believe in him, and trust him with all your heart. Cause one day they will realize when women will fight back. The day you regret showing her a critical, and a hurtful fist, is the day you sit behind the resturang table, thinking of a new wife, still not knowning the value of women.... It is absurd.

Then again... We can have a list where men are attacked more than women, and If we got deeper in the dissucision, I tend to not understand them, cause women have the right, but blindly rush in to complain, when men tend to stay silent knowning that emotions of a man is not acceptable in this soceity. Actually the laws in both ways needs some a hit up, In today society is where a woman needs to collect her own savings, cause she can't trust her husband, and the man can't show emotions to not downgrade himself, It is absurd, and people call this justice. I rather see a trump wall in front of my face, a wall that is easily missed, cause It's always I... Who are you? Why are you even arrogant? What do you think you are? What made you better than her? Or what made you better than him? 

MashAllah brother @Hamodiii. Thank you so very much for your contribution, for staying on topic and not digressing. 

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5 hours ago, Aflower said:

Should religious scholars lead by example - especially when they are in a place of influence such as on the media.? What they do in their down time/personal time is of course their choice.

I think you're confused. I've said on your previous thread that "Ammar Nakashwani" is not a scholar to start with. Therefore why did you name this thread "Ammar Nakashwani" then talk about "Scholars" leading examples. 

There are plenty of Shiite scholars who wear a traditional attire like Mohammad Shomali, Shiekh Hamza Sodagar etc. And I personally consider them to be qualified worthy of having a scholar status.

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Just now, ali_fatheroforphans said:

I think your confused. I've said on your previous thread that "Ammar Nakashwani" is not a scholar to start with. Therefore why did you make the name of the thread "Ammar Nakashwani" then talk about "Scholars" leading examples. 

There are plenty of Shiite scholars who wear a traditional attire like Mohammad Shomali, Shiekh Hamza Sodagar etc. And I personally consider them to be qualified worthy of having a scholar status.

@ali_fatheroforphansThank you for your comment BUT please note that the Nakshwani thread has been officially closed. This thread is about Double Standards. Please kindly be civil, please don't pick a fight unnecessarily and please kindly limit yourself to discussing the topic of this thread. We are not in kindergarten to score points against one another. Please be mature. That post on Nakshwani is closed/dead/finito. Please only discuss the topic on hand. As the OP I am officially requesting no off topic discussions going forwards please. JazakAllah

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13 minutes ago, Aflower said:

BUT please note that the Nakshwani thread has been officially closed. This thread is about Double Standards. Please kindly be civil, please don't pick a fight unnecessarily and please kindly limit yourself to discussing the topic of this thread. We are not in kindergarten to score points against one another. Please be mature

Okay fair enough, lets forget about Ammar Nakashwani. I apologize If I offended you.

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