Questions About the Verse of Purification

[Follower of Ahlulbayt]

How does ayat tatheer prove the infallibility of the imams if 'rijs' does not mean sin. Now if we look at the qur'an, no where does it indicated that rijs means sin. Also, in our books it mentions in that the imam said 'rijs' means doubt. How can we prove ayat tatheer proves infallibility if rijs does not mean sin? 

In surah 8:11, very similar words that are used in ayat tatheer are used for the companions. Does this mean that the companions are infallible. Specifically, the ayat uses 'Ankum' which we often bring up about ayat tatheer to say that they were always purified. Using this logic, does that mean the sahaba were also always purified?

Final question is why does the event of kisa have to happen if the ayat was already revealed for the five?

[Muslim2010]

On 3/22/2018 at 11:17 AM, Follower of Ahlulbayt said:

How does ayat tatheer prove the infallibility of the imams if 'rijs' does not mean sin. Now if we look at the qur'an, no where does it indicated that rijs means sin. Also, in our books it mentions in that the imam said 'rijs' means doubt. How can we prove ayat tatheer proves infallibility if rijs does not mean sin? 

https://shiasunniinfo.wordpress.com/2013/06/09/shias-belief-about-infallibility-of-the-imams/

http://www.revivingalislam.com/2010/10/saheeh-hadeeth-on-infallibility-of.html

https://www.al-islam.org/shia-rebuts-sayyid-rida-husayni-nasab/question-6-why-do-you-regard-your-imams-as-infallible-masum

The following link provides the meaning of Rijs as described in the verses of quran:

wasalam

[Follower of Ahlulbayt]

12 minutes ago, skyweb1987 said:

https://shiasunniinfo.wordpress.com/2013/06/09/shias-belief-about-infallibility-of-the-imams/

http://www.revivingalislam.com/2010/10/saheeh-hadeeth-on-infallibility-of.html

https://www.al-islam.org/shia-rebuts-sayyid-rida-husayni-nasab/question-6-why-do-you-regard-your-imams-as-infallible-masum

The following link provides the meaning of Rijs as described in the verses of quran:

wasalam

brother in al kafi imam says rijs means shak. Yes there is a deeper meaning but do not deny the words of the imam

[Muslim2010]

10 minutes ago, Follower of Ahlulbayt said:

brother in al kafi imam says rijs means shak. Yes there is a deeper meaning but do not deny the words of the imam

You are just mentioning one meaning out of many defined in the quran and other hadiths  by Imams. How i can neglect the other meaning of Rijs as described in the quran and hadith and take one particular only to suit some one conjecture??

This is illogical, 

Can you please quote the text of that hadith with reference  please?

Edited March 23, 2018 by skyweb1987

[Follower of Ahlulbayt]

1 minute ago, skyweb1987 said:

You are just mentioning one meaning out of many defined in the quran and other hadiths  by Imams. How i can neglect the other meaning of Rijs as described in the quran and hadith and take one particular only to suit some one conjecture??

This is illogical, One

ok give me authentic ahadith that says rijs means sin

[Muslim2010]

4 minutes ago, Follower of Ahlulbayt said:

ok give me authentic ahadith that says rijs means sin

I have already quoted the verses of quran at the link mentioned earlier that provide the all the menacing of Rijs as described in quran.

Have you seen a content of single  link i have mentioned? Please.

Edited March 23, 2018 by skyweb1987

[Follower of Ahlulbayt]

1 minute ago, skyweb1987 said:

I have already quoted the verses of quran at the link mentioned earlier that provide the all the menacing of Rijs as described in quran.

Have you seen a content of single  link i have mentioned?

yes im pretty sure no where in the quran does rijs refer to sin. Please provide evidence

[Muslim2010]

3 minutes ago, Follower of Ahlulbayt said:

yes im pretty sure no where in the quran does rijs refer to sin. Please provide evidence

The verse of purification has mentioned in Arabic text that all Rijs are kept away from the Ahl Albayat AS of the prophet saww. not the doubt ie "Shak". This word "Shak" has not been used in the verse of purification..

Moreover, the word "Rijs" has been used in quran in many verses to describe the kinds of Rijs:

The verse of purification has mentioned in Arabic text that all Rijs are kept away from the Ahl Albayat AS of the prophet saww. not the doubt ie "Shak". This word "Shak" has not been used in the verse of purification..
Moreover, the word "Rijs" has been used in quran in many verses to describe the kinds of Rijs:

٥_٩٠    يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوٓا۟ إِنَّمَا ٱلْخَمْرُ وَٱلْمَيْسِرُ وَٱلْأَنصَابُ وَٱلْأَزْلَٰمُ رِجْسٌۭ مِّنْ عَمَلِ ٱلشَّيْطَٰنِ فَٱجْتَنِبُوهُ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ
005:090 O you who have faith! Indeed wine, gambling, idols, and the divining arrows are abominations of Satan’s doing, so avoid them, so that you may be felicitous.

٦_١٤٥    قُل لَّآ أَجِدُ فِى مَآ أُوحِىَ إِلَىَّ مُحَرَّمًا عَلَىٰ طَاعِمٍۢ يَطْعَمُهُۥٓ إِلَّآ أَن يَكُونَ مَيْتَةً أَوْ دَمًۭا مَّسْفُوحًا أَوْ لَحْمَ خِنزِيرٍۢ فَإِنَّهُۥ رِجْسٌ أَوْ فِسْقًا أُهِلَّ لِغَيْرِ ٱللَّهِ بِهِۦ ۚ فَمَنِ ٱضْطُرَّ غَيْرَ بَاغٍۢ وَلَا عَادٍۢ فَإِنَّ رَبَّكَ غَفُورٌۭ رَّحِيمٌۭ
006:145 Say, ‘I do not find in what has been revealed to me that anyone be forbidden to eat anything except carrion or spilt blood, or the flesh of swine—for that is indeed unclean—or an impiety offered to other than Allah.’ But should someone be compelled, without being rebellious or aggressive, indeed your Lord is all-forgiving, all-merciful.

٧_٧١    قَالَ قَدْ وَقَعَ عَلَيْكُم مِّن رَّبِّكُمْ رِجْسٌۭ وَغَضَبٌ ۖ أَتُجَٰدِلُونَنِى فِىٓ أَسْمَآءٍۢ سَمَّيْتُمُوهَآ أَنتُمْ وَءَابَآؤُكُم مَّا نَزَّلَ ٱللَّهُ بِهَا مِن سُلْطَٰنٍۢ ۚ فَٱنتَظِرُوٓا۟ إِنِّى مَعَكُم مِّنَ ٱلْمُنتَظِرِينَ
007:071 He said, ‘Punishment and wrath from your Lord has become due against you. Do you dispute with me regarding names, which you have named—you and your fathers—for which Allah has not sent down any authority? So wait! I too am waiting along with you.’

٩_٩٥    سَيَحْلِفُونَ بِٱللَّهِ لَكُمْ إِذَا ٱنقَلَبْتُمْ إِلَيْهِمْ لِتُعْرِضُوا۟ عَنْهُمْ ۖ فَأَعْرِضُوا۟ عَنْهُمْ ۖ إِنَّهُمْ رِجْسٌۭ ۖ وَمَأْوَىٰهُمْ جَهَنَّمُ جَزَآءًۢ بِمَا كَانُوا۟ يَكْسِبُونَ
009:095 They will swear to you by Allah when you return to them, that you may leave them alone. So leave them alone. They are indeed filth, and their refuge shall be hell, a requital for what they used to earn.

٦_١٢٥    فَمَن يُرِدِ ٱللَّهُ أَن يَهْدِيَهُۥ يَشْرَحْ صَدْرَهُۥ لِلْإِسْلَٰمِ ۖ وَمَن يُرِدْ أَن يُضِلَّهُۥ يَجْعَلْ صَدْرَهُۥ ضَيِّقًا حَرَجًۭا كَأَنَّمَا يَصَّعَّدُ فِى ٱلسَّمَآءِ ۚ كَذَٰلِكَ يَجْعَلُ ٱللَّهُ ٱلرِّجْسَ عَلَى ٱلَّذِينَ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ
006:125 Whomever Allah desires to guide, He opens his breast to Islam, and whomever He desires to lead astray, He makes his breast narrow and straitened as if he were climbing to a height. Thus does Allah lay [spiritual] defilement on those who do not have faith.

١٠_١٠٠    وَمَا كَانَ لِنَفْسٍ أَن تُؤْمِنَ إِلَّا بِإِذْنِ ٱللَّهِ ۚ وَيَجْعَلُ ٱلرِّجْسَ عَلَى ٱلَّذِينَ لَا يَعْقِلُونَ
010:100 No soul may have faith except by Allah’s leave, and He lays defilement on those who do not exercise their reason.

٢٢_٣٠    ذَٰلِكَ وَمَن يُعَظِّمْ حُرُمَٰتِ ٱللَّهِ فَهُوَ خَيْرٌۭ لَّهُۥ عِندَ رَبِّهِۦ ۗ وَأُحِلَّتْ لَكُمُ ٱلْأَنْعَٰمُ إِلَّا مَا يُتْلَىٰ عَلَيْكُمْ ۖ فَٱجْتَنِبُوا۟ ٱلرِّجْسَ مِنَ ٱلْأَوْثَٰنِ وَٱجْتَنِبُوا۟ قَوْلَ ٱلزُّورِ
022:030 That, and whoever venerates the sacraments of Allah, that is better for him with his Lord. You are permitted [animals of] grazing livestock except for what will be recited to you. So avoid the abomination of idols, and avoid false speech,

٩_١٢٥    وَأَمَّا ٱلَّذِينَ فِى قُلُوبِهِم مَّرَضٌۭ فَزَادَتْهُمْ رِجْسًا إِلَىٰ رِجْسِهِمْ وَمَاتُوا۟ وَهُمْ كَٰفِرُونَ
009:125 But as for those in whose heart is a sickness, it only adds defilement to their defilement, and they die while they are faithless.
 

إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ ٱللَّهُ لِيُذْهِبَ عَنكُمُ ٱلرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ ٱلْبَيْتِ وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيرًۭا

033:033  Indeed Allah desires to repel all impurity from you, O People of the Household, and purify you with a thorough purification.

The meaning is quite clear from the above verses of quran.

[Follower of Ahlulbayt]

3 minutes ago, skyweb1987 said:

 

إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ ٱللَّهُ لِيُذْهِبَ عَنكُمُ ٱلرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ ٱلْبَيْتِ وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيرًۭا

033:033  Indeed Allah desires to repel all impurity from you, O People of the Household, and purify you with a thorough purification.

The meaning is quite clear from the above verses of quran.

which verse mentions rijs as sin? 

[Muslim2010]

On 3/23/2018 at 6:45 AM, Follower of Ahlulbayt said:

which verse mentions rijs as sin? 

The above verses describe 7 types of Rijs so all these Rijs are kept away from the pure progeny of the prophet saaw.

How do you consider these meninges of Rijs are not sins or uncleanliness?

regards

[Follower of Ahlulbayt]

On 3/23/2018 at 6:50 AM, skyweb1987 said:

The above verses describe 7 types of Rijs so all these Rijs are kept away from the pure progeny of the prophet saaw.

How do you consider these meninges of Rijs are not sins?

regards

sorry brother but not all of these verses refer to 'sin'. In most of these verses, rijs means physical filth and others mean major sins. I do not see rijs meaning sin in any lf these verses. Please bring a authentic hadith that says rijs means sin

[Muslim2010]

9 minutes ago, Follower of Ahlulbayt said:

sorry brother but not all of these verses refer to 'sin'. In most of these verses, rijs means physical filth and others mean major sins. I do not see rijs meaning sin in any lf these verses. Please bring a authentic hadith that says rijs means sin

You are just neglecting the meaning mentioned by the verses of Quran for kinds of Rijs  The verse of purification mentions that the following Rijs are kept away from the prophet and his pure progeny:

٥_٩٠    يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوٓا۟ إِنَّمَا ٱلْخَمْرُ وَٱلْمَيْسِرُ وَٱلْأَنصَابُ وَٱلْأَزْلَٰمُ رِجْسٌۭ مِّنْ عَمَلِ ٱلشَّيْطَٰنِ فَٱجْتَنِبُوهُ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ
005:090 O you who have faith! Indeed wine, gambling, idols, and the divining arrows are abominations of Satan’s doing, so avoid them, so that you may be felicitous.

All these Rijs are kept away from the progeny of the prophet saaw.

How Do you consider these  Rijs are not sins? No answer i see to justify your claim that these are not  sisns. I may like to see your answer before i move further on other verses or hadith  please.

Edited March 23, 2018 by skyweb1987

[Follower of Ahlulbayt]

1 minute ago, skyweb1987 said:

You are just neglecting the meaning mentioned by the verses of Quran for kinds of Rijs  The verse of purification mentions that the following Rijs are kept away from the prophet and his pure progeny:

٥_٩٠    يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوٓا۟ إِنَّمَا ٱلْخَمْرُ وَٱلْمَيْسِرُ وَٱلْأَنصَابُ وَٱلْأَزْلَٰمُ رِجْسٌۭ مِّنْ عَمَلِ ٱلشَّيْطَٰنِ فَٱجْتَنِبُوهُ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ
005:090 O you who have faith! Indeed wine, gambling, idols, and the divining arrows are abominations of Satan’s doing, so avoid them, so that you may be felicitous.

All these Rijs are kept away from the progeny of the prophet saaw. How Do you consider these  Rijs are not sins? No answer i see to justify your claim that these are not  sisns.

I may see your answer before i move further on other verses please.

brother i am trying to ask where does rijs say 'sin'. Not wine, or gambling bc sunnis can reply 'oh so your imam is purified from wine and gambling but not all sins' 

[Muslim2010]

6 minutes ago, Follower of Ahlulbayt said:

brother i am trying to ask where does rijs say 'sin'. Not wine, or gambling bc sunnis can reply 'oh so your imam is purified from wine and gambling but not all sins' 

Our Imams  are purified from all such sins the example from quran i have quoted. And you are not able to differentiate  or  substantiate that these Rijs are not sins.

All such Rijs are kept away from the pure progeny of the prophet saaw. And they are declared  infallible. Verse  of purification is solid evidence.

wasalam

Edited March 23, 2018 by skyweb1987

[Muslim2010]

The following sunni hadith i add to my response given above: confirming that the progeny of the prophet saaw is clear of sins:

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 9.306

Narrated Abu Sa’id al-Khudri:

The Prophet said, "Allah never sends a prophet or gives the Caliphate to a Caliph but that he (the Prophet or the Caliph) has two groups of advisors: A group advising him to do good and exhorts him to do it, and the other group advising him to do evil and exhorts him to do it. But the protected person (Ma’soom) is the one who is protected by Allah.’"

فالمعصوم من عصم الله تعالى

In fact, the Prophet (S) himself testified that he and his Ahlul-Bayt are sinless. Interesting to see that Messenger of Allah used the purification verse of Qur’an to prove his point. Ibn Abbas Narrated that:

The Messenger of Allah recited "Verily Allah intends to keep off from you every kind of uncleanness O’ People of the House (Ahlul-Bayt), and purify you a perfect purification". (Qur’an, the last sentence of Verse 33:33) and then the Messenger of Allah said: "Thus Me and my Ahlul-Bayt are clear from sins."

فأنا و أهل بيتي مطهرون من الذنوب

Sunni reference:

• al-Durr al-Manthoor, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, v5, pp 605-606,198 under the commentary of Verse 33:33 of Qur’an

• Dala’il al-Nabawiyyah, by al-Bayhaqi

• Others such as al-Tabarani, Ibn Mardawayh, Abu Nu’aym, etc.

[elite]

On 22/03/2018 at 11:47 AM, Follower of Ahlulbayt said:

How does ayat tatheer prove the infallibility of the imams if 'rijs' does not mean sin. Now if we look at the qur'an, no where does it indicated that rijs means sin. Also, in our books it mentions in that the imam said 'rijs' means doubt. How can we prove ayat tatheer proves infallibility if rijs does not mean sin? 

In surah 8:11, very similar words that are used in ayat tatheer are used for the companions. Does this mean that the companions are infallible. Specifically, the ayat uses 'Ankum' which we often bring up about ayat tatheer to say that they were always purified. Using this logic, does that mean the sahaba were also always purified?

Final question is why does the event of kisa have to happen if the ayat was already revealed for the five?

In the hadith we find   الرجس هوالشك   Rijs that is Doubt

we also find in hadith no 14 of al kafi  out of the long hadith on page 22  in the chapter of intelligence which is talking about intelligence and its army and ignorance and its army.

والتسليم وضده الشك   "and Submission and its opposite is Doubt." That means Ahl Al Bayt were kept away from the disobedience. They were always submissive to Allah.

as for the verse 8:11   وَيُنَزِّلُ عَلَيْكُمْ مِنَ السَّمَاءِ مَاءً لِيُطَهِّرَكُمْ بِهِ   "and sent down water from the sky upon you, that thereby He might purify you". is talking about the purification of Body.

[Urwatul Wuthqa]

On 3/22/2018 at 1:17 AM, Follower of Ahlulbayt said:

How does ayat tatheer prove the infallibility of the imams if 'rijs' does not mean sin.

 how can they sin who are pure of having doubts? how can they sin who are pure of having deviation & disease of the hearts? how can they sin who are pure of being misguided? 

The verse of purification introducing the "Mukhlas" servants of Allah (s.w.t). 

قَالَ رَبِّ بِمَا أَغْوَيْتَنِي لَأُزَيِّنَنَّ لَهُمْ فِي الْأَرْضِ وَلَأُغْوِيَنَّهُمْ أَجْمَعِينَ
إِلَّا عِبَادَكَ مِنْهُمُ الْمُخْلَصِينَ

(15:39-40)

On 3/22/2018 at 1:17 AM, Follower of Ahlulbayt said:

In surah 8:11, very similar words that are used in ayat tatheer are used for the companions. Does this mean that the companions are infallible. Specifically, the ayat uses 'Ankum' which we often bring up about ayat tatheer to say that they were always purified. Using this logic, does that mean the sahaba were also always purified?

إِذْ يُغَشِّيكُمُ النُّعَاسَ أَمَنَةً مِنْهُ وَيُنَزِّلُ عَلَيْكُمْ مِنَ السَّمَاءِ مَاءً لِيُطَهِّرَكُمْ بِهِ وَيُذْهِبَ عَنْكُمْ رِجْزَ الشَّيْطَانِ وَلِيَرْبِطَ عَلَىٰ قُلُوبِكُمْ وَيُثَبِّتَ بِهِ الْأَقْدَامَ
8:11

The above is the Arabic text of verse 8:11, can you advise as to why & how you are drawing the conclusion that sahaba are purified like those mentioned in 33:33? 
Does Allah mentioned the nazool of water for purifying the Ahlul Bayt? Does Allah mentioned "Rijz of Shaytan" in 33:33? 

[Follower of Ahlulbayt]

23 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

وَلِيَرْبِطَ عَلَىٰ قُلُوبِكُمْ وَيُثَبِّتَ بِهِ الْأَقْدَامَ
8:11

The above is the Arabic text of verse 8:11, can you advise as to why & how you are drawing the conclusion that sahaba are purified like those mentioned in 33:33? 
Does Allah mentioned the nazool of water for purifying the Ahlul Bayt? Does Allah mentioned "Rijz of Shaytan" in 33:33? 

I am saying that similar wording is used in ayat 8:11 like 33:33. Many of us argue that in ayat 33;33, the use of 'Ankum' makes the meaning that ahlulbayt was always purified. Does that mean in this verse 8:11, the sahaba were always physically purified?

[Urwatul Wuthqa]

11 minutes ago, Follower of Ahlulbayt said:

I am saying that similar wording is used in ayat 8:11 like 33:33. Many of us argue that in ayat 33;33, the use of 'Ankum' makes the meaning that ahlulbayt was always purified. Does that mean in this verse 8:11, the sahaba were always physically purified?

I think I have to quote the Arabic text of both the verses now:

 وَيُنَزِّلُ عَلَيْكُمْ مِنَ السَّمَاءِ مَاءً لِيُطَهِّرَكُمْ بِهِ وَيُذْهِبَ عَنْكُمْ رِجْزَ الشَّيْطَانِ وَلِيَرْبِطَ عَلَىٰ قُلُوبِكُمْ وَيُثَبِّتَ بِهِ الْأَقْدَامَ
8:11

 إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ لِيُذْهِبَ عَنْكُمُ الرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيرًا
33:33

Can you understand the difference between "Rijz-ash-Shaytan" mentioned in 8:11 & "Rijs" mentioned in 33:33? 

[Shakir 8:11] When He caused calm to fall on you as a security from Him and sent down upon you water from the cloud that He might thereby purify you, and take away from you the uncleanness of the Shaitan, and that He might fortify your hearts and steady (your) footsteps thereby.

Edited March 24, 2018 by Salsabeel

[Muslim2010]

33 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

I think I have to quote the Arabic text of both the verses now:

 وَيُنَزِّلُ عَلَيْكُمْ مِنَ السَّمَاءِ مَاءً لِيُطَهِّرَكُمْ بِهِ وَيُذْهِبَ عَنْكُمْ رِجْزَ الشَّيْطَانِ وَلِيَرْبِطَ عَلَىٰ قُلُوبِكُمْ وَيُثَبِّتَ بِهِ الْأَقْدَامَ
8:11

 إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ لِيُذْهِبَ عَنْكُمُ الرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيرًا
33:33

Can you understand the difference between "Rijz-ash-Shaytan" mentioned in 8:11 & "Rijs" mentioned in 33:33? 

[Shakir 8:11] When He caused calm to fall on you as a security from Him and sent down upon you water from the cloud that He might thereby purify you, and take away from you the uncleanness of the Shaitan, and that He might fortify your hearts and steady (your) footsteps thereby.

 إِذۡ يُغَشِّيكُمُ ٱلنُّعَاسَ أَمَنَةً۬ مِّنۡهُ وَيُنَزِّلُ عَلَيۡكُم مِّنَ ٱلسَّمَآءِ مَآءً۬ لِّيُطَهِّرَكُم بِهِۦ وَيُذۡهِبَ عَنكُمۡ رِجۡزَ ٱلشَّيۡطَـٰنِ وَلِيَرۡبِطَ عَلَىٰ قُلُوبِڪُمۡ وَيُثَبِّتَ بِهِ ٱلۡأَقۡدَامَ

(11. (Remember) when He covered you with a slumber as a security from Him, and He caused water (rain) to descend on you from the sky, to clean you thereby and to remove from you the Rijz (whispering or dirt) of Shaytan, and to strengthen your hearts, and make your feet firm thereby.)

Ine Kather mentions the following incident in Tafseer for this verse:

Allah said next,

﴿ وَيُنَزِّلُ عَلَيۡكُم مِّنَ ٱلسَّمَآءِ مَآءً۬ ﴾

(and He caused rain to descend on you from the sky.)

`Ali bin Abi Talhah reported that Ibn `Abbas said, "When the Prophet arrived at Badr, he made camp. At the time, there was a sandy piece of land between the idolators and the water (the wells at Badr). Muslims felt weak and the Shaytan cast frustration into their hearts. He whispered to them, `You claim that you are Allah's supporters and that His Messenger is among you! However, the idolators have taken over the water resource from you, while you pray needing purity.' Allah sent down heavy rain, allowing the Muslims to drink and use it for purity. Allah also removed Shaytan's whisper and made the sand firm when rain fell on it, and the Muslims walked on the sand along with their animals, until they reached the enemy. Allah supported His Prophet and the believers with a thousand angels on one side, five hundred under the command of Jibril and another five hundred under the command of Mika'il on another side.''

 

Allah swt removed the whisper of Shaytan from the hearts of the companions by rain, that has covered the hearts of companions.  This rains water example is the same as that of muslim making wudud prior to prayer / salaah. I further add the following verse:

﴿ يَـٰٓأَيُّہَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوٓاْ إِذَا قُمۡتُمۡ إِلَى ٱلصَّلَوٰةِ فَٱغۡسِلُواْ وُجُوهَكُمۡ وَأَيۡدِيَكُمۡ إِلَى ٱلۡمَرَافِقِ وَٱمۡسَحُواْ بِرُءُوسِكُمۡ وَأَرۡجُلَڪُمۡ إِلَى ٱلۡكَعۡبَيۡنِ‌ۚ وَإِن كُنتُمۡ جُنُبً۬ا فَٱطَّهَّرُواْ‌ۚ وَإِن كُنتُم مَّرۡضَىٰٓ أَوۡ عَلَىٰ سَفَرٍ أَوۡ جَآءَ أَحَدٌ۬ مِّنكُم مِّنَ ٱلۡغَآٮِٕطِ أَوۡ لَـٰمَسۡتُمُ ٱلنِّسَآءَ فَلَمۡ تَجِدُواْ مَآءً۬ فَتَيَمَّمُواْ صَعِيدً۬ا طَيِّبً۬ا فَٱمۡسَحُواْ بِوُجُوهِڪُمۡ وَأَيۡدِيكُم مِّنۡهُ‌ۚ مَا يُرِيدُ ٱللَّهُ لِيَجۡعَلَ عَلَيۡڪُم مِّنۡ حَرَجٍ۬ وَلَـٰكِن يُرِيدُ لِيُطَهِّرَكُمۡ وَلِيُتِمَّ نِعۡمَتَهُ ۥ عَلَيۡكُمۡ لَعَلَّڪُمۡ تَشۡكُرُونَ ﴾

(6. O you who believe! When you stand (intend) to offer the Salah (the prayer), then wash your faces and your hands (forearms) up to the elbows, rub (by passing wet hands over) your heads, and (wash) your feet up to the ankles. If you are in a state of Janaba, purify yourselves (bathe your whole body). But if you are ill or on a journey or any of you comes from the Gha'it (toilet) or you have touched women and you find no water, then perform Tayammum with clean earth and rub therewith your faces and hands. Allah does not want to place you in difficulty, but He wants to purify you, and to complete His Favor to you that you may be thankful.)

Ine Katheer mentions the following in his tafseer:

 مَا يُرِيدُ ٱللَّهُ لِيَجۡعَلَ عَلَيۡڪُم مِّنۡ حَرَجٍ۬ ﴾

(Allah does not want to place you in difficulty,) This is why He made things easy and lenient for you. This is why He allowed you to use Tayammum when you are ill and when you do not find water, to make things comfortable for you and as mercy for you. Allah made Tayammum in place of Wudu', and Allah made it the same as ablution with water for the one who it is legitimate for, except for certain things, as we mentioned before. For example; Tayammum only involves one strike with the hand on the sand and wiping the face and hands. Allah said,

﴿ وَلَـٰكِن يُرِيدُ لِيُطَهِّرَكُمۡ وَلِيُتِمَّ نِعۡمَتَهُ ۥ عَلَيۡكُمۡ لَعَلَّڪُمۡ تَشۡكُرُونَ ﴾

(but He wants to purify you, and to complete His favor on you that you may be thankful.) for His bounties on you, such as His easy, kind, merciful, comfortable and lenient legislation.

There is no such claim that by doing bath or wudu a muslim can attain the same level of purification as that of the prophet saaw or the same as that of his Ahl albaayt that has been mentioned in verse of purification. Such false assumptions are thus rejected.

Edited March 24, 2018 by skyweb1987

[Urwatul Wuthqa]

4 minutes ago, skyweb1987 said:

Allah swt removed the whisper of Shaytan from the hearts of the companions by rain, that has covered the hearts of companions.  This rains water example is the same as that of muslim making wudud prior to prayer / salaah.

Thank you brother for these valued words.

وَلِيَرْبِطَ عَلَىٰ قُلُوبِكُمْ وَيُثَبِّتَ بِهِ الْأَقْدَامَ

This indicates the limitations. Now I want to compare 8:11 & 10:2

 وَبَشِّرِ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَنَّ لَهُمْ قَدَمَ صِدْقٍ عِنْدَ رَبِّهِمْ

 

[Follower of Ahlulbayt]

1 hour ago, Salsabeel said:

I think I have to quote the Arabic text of both the verses now:

 وَيُنَزِّلُ عَلَيْكُمْ مِنَ السَّمَاءِ مَاءً لِيُطَهِّرَكُمْ بِهِ وَيُذْهِبَ عَنْكُمْ رِجْزَ الشَّيْطَانِ وَلِيَرْبِطَ عَلَىٰ قُلُوبِكُمْ وَيُثَبِّتَ بِهِ الْأَقْدَامَ
8:11

 إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ لِيُذْهِبَ عَنْكُمُ الرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيرًا
33:33

Can you understand the difference between "Rijz-ash-Shaytan" mentioned in 8:11 & "Rijs" mentioned in 33:33? 

[Shakir 8:11] When He caused calm to fall on you as a security from Him and sent down upon you water from the cloud that He might thereby purify you, and take away from you the uncleanness of the Shaitan, and that He might fortify your hearts and steady (your) footsteps thereby.

ok so your saying the in 8:11 'Ankum' cannot mean that the sahaba was ALWAYS purified from rijz shaytan  So then why do we say that 'ankum' in 33:33 means that ahlubayt was always purified from sins?

[Urwatul Wuthqa]

1 hour ago, Follower of Ahlulbayt said:

 So then why do we say that 'ankum' in 33:33 means that ahlubayt was always purified from sins?

It is not because of word "ankum" but because of words "innama" &  "yureedullah". The will mentioned in verse 33:33 is not the legislative will but an ontological will. 

https://www.al-islam.org/imamate-and-infallibility-imams-quran-ridha-kardan/chapter-6-imamate-quranic-verse-tatheer

[elite]

Prayer of Ibrahim(as) and Ismail(as)

 رَبَّنَا وَاجْعَلْنَا مُسْلِمَيْنِ لَكَ وَمِنْ ذُرِّيَّتِنَا أُمَّةً مُسْلِمَةً لَكَ وَأَرِنَا مَنَاسِكَنَا وَتُبْ عَلَيْنَا ۖ إِنَّكَ أَنْتَ التَّوَّابُ الرَّحِيمُ 

[Shakir 2:128] Our Lord! and make us both submissive to Thee and (raise) from our offspring a nation submitting to Thee, and show us our ways of devotion and turn to us (mercifully), surely Thou art the Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful.

and make us both submissive to Thee    وَاجْعَلْنَا مُسْلِمَيْنِ لَكَ

 That prayer is responded for both in the following word. There were being submissive to Allah is endorsed by the verse  37:103 of the quran.

 [Shakir 37:100] My Lord! grant me of the doers of good deeds.

[Shakir 37:101] So We gave him the good news of a boy, possessing forbearance.

[Shakir 37:102] And when he attained to working with him, he said: O my son! surely I have seen in a dream that I should sacrifice you; consider then what you see. He said: O my father! do what you are commanded; if Allah please, you will find me of the patient ones.

[Shakir 37:103] So when they both submitted and he threw him down upon his forehead,

[Shakir 37:104] And We called out to him saying: O Ibrahim!

[Shakir 37:105] You have indeed shown the truth of the vision; surely thus do We reward the doers of good:

 وَمِنْ ذُرِّيَّتِنَا أُمَّةً مُسْلِمَةً لَكَ

 and (raise) from our offspring a nation submitting to Thee

 This prayer is responded by the verse  of purification in the quran. Ahl Al Bayt are the nation submitting to Allah.

 Now we prove from the quran that Rijs means transgression or disobedience which is opposite of submission.

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا إِنَّمَا الْخَمْرُ وَالْمَيْسِرُ وَالْأَنْصَابُ وَالْأَزْلَامُ رِجْسٌ مِنْ عَمَلِ الشَّيْطَانِ فَاجْتَنِبُوهُ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ 

O you who believe! intoxicants and games of chance and (sacrificing to) stones set up and (dividing by) arrows are only a Rijs , from the act of the Shaitan; shun it therefore that you may be successful. 5:90

Rijs is mentioned as   "from the act of Shaitan"

What was the act of Shaitan quran says   فَفَسَقَ عَنْ أَمْرِ رَبِّهِ     “so he transgressed the commandment of his Lord.” 18:50  So rijs is  the act of transgression.

 قُلْ لَا أَجِدُ فِي مَا أُوحِيَ إِلَيَّ مُحَرَّمًا عَلَىٰ طَاعِمٍ يَطْعَمُهُ إِلَّا أَنْ يَكُونَ مَيْتَةً أَوْ دَمًا مَسْفُوحًا أَوْ لَحْمَ خِنْزِيرٍ فَإِنَّهُ رِجْسٌ أَوْ فِسْقًا أُهِلَّ لِغَيْرِ اللَّهِ بِهِ ۚ فَمَنِ اضْطُرَّ غَيْرَ بَاغٍ وَلَا عَادٍ فَإِنَّ رَبَّكَ غَفُورٌ رَحِيمٌ

 Say: I do not find in that which has been revealed to me anything forbidden for an eater to eat of except that it be what has died of itself, or blood poured forth, or flesh of swine-- for that surely is Rijs-- or that which is a transgression, other than (the name of) Allah having been invoked on it; but whoever is driven to necessity, not desiring nor exceeding the limit, then surely your Lord is Forgiving, Merciful. 6:145

فَإِنَّهُ رِجْسٌ أَوْ فِسْقًا   It is indeed Rijs or Transgression .  So rijs is nothing else but transgression

 فَمَنْ يُرِدِ اللَّهُ أَنْ يَهْدِيَهُ يَشْرَحْ صَدْرَهُ لِلْإِسْلَامِ ۖ وَمَنْ يُرِدْ أَنْ يُضِلَّهُ يَجْعَلْ صَدْرَهُ ضَيِّقًا حَرَجًا كَأَنَّمَا يَصَّعَّدُ فِي السَّمَاءِ ۚ كَذَٰلِكَ يَجْعَلُ اللَّهُ الرِّجْسَ عَلَى الَّذِينَ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ

Therefore (for) whomsoever Allah intends that He would guide him aright, He expands his breast for Islam, and (for) whomsoever He intends that He should cause him to err, He makes his breast strait and narrow as though he were ascending upwards; thus does Allah lay Rijs  on those who do not believe. 6:125

  Here Rijs comes  as  an opposite of Islam (submission).

 When we read the verses 9:95-96  they are talking about hypocrites and describes them as Rijs and Fasiq (transgressor)

 إِنَّهُمْ رِجْسٌ    They are Rijs 9:95    فَإِنْ تَرْضَوْا عَنْهُمْ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يَرْضَىٰ عَنِ الْقَوْمِ الْفَاسِقِينَ  certainly Allah is not pleased with the people who are Fasiqin 9:96

وَإِذَا مَا أُنْزِلَتْ سُورَةٌ فَمِنْهُمْ مَنْ يَقُولُ أَيُّكُمْ زَادَتْهُ هَٰذِهِ إِيمَانًا ۚ فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا فَزَادَتْهُمْ إِيمَانًا وَهُمْ يَسْتَبْشِرُونَ 

[Shakir 9:124] And whenever a chapter is revealed, there are some of them who say: Which of you has it strengthened in faith? Then as for those who believe, it strengthens them in faith and they rejoice.

وَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ فِي قُلُوبِهِمْ مَرَضٌ فَزَادَتْهُمْ رِجْسًا إِلَىٰ رِجْسِهِمْ وَمَاتُوا وَهُمْ كَافِرُونَ

 And as for those in whose hearts is a disease, it adds Rijs to their Rijs and they die while they are unbelievers. 9:125

 That means It adds transgression  to their transgression.

 وَيَجْعَلُ الرِّجْسَ عَلَى الَّذِينَ لَا يَعْقِلُونَ

He make the Rijs on those who do not use intelligence  10:100

 So Ahl Al Bayt were kept away from the Rijs means  kept away from transgression.They were made submissive to their Lord. In this way Prayer of Ibrahim(as) & Ismail (as) was answered.

Edited March 24, 2018 by elite

[Qa'im]

- في كتاب معاني الأخبار حدثنا أبي ومحمد بن الحسن بن أحمد بن الوليد رضي الله عنه قالا: حدثنا عبد الله بن جعفر الحميري عن محمد بن الحسين بن أبي الخطاب قال: حدثنا النضر بن شعيب عن عبد الغفار الخازن عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام في قول الله عز وجل: (انما يريد الله ليذهب عنكم الرجس أهل البيت ويطهركم تطهيرا) قال: الرجس هو الشك.

 

In Ma`ani al-Akhbar: My father and Muhammad b. al-Hasan b. Ahmad b. al-Waleed رضي الله عنه narrated to us. They said: `Abdullah b. Ja`far al-Himyari narrated to us from Muhammad b. al-Husayn b. Abu'l Khattab. He said: An-Nadr b. Shu`ayb narrated to us from `Abd al-Ghaffar al-Khazin from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام regarding the saying of Allah عز وجل, "Surely, Allah only wants to remove uncleanliness from you, O Ahl al-Bayt, and purify you with a thorough purification" (33:33).

He said: Uncleanliness is doubt.

 

- علي بن إبراهيم عن أبيه عن حماد عن ربعي عن زرارة عن أبي جعفر عليه السلام قال: سمعته يقول: انا لا نوصف وكيف يوصف قوم رفع الله عنهم الرجس وهو الشك، والحديث طويل أخذنا منه موضع الحاجة.

 

`Ali b. Ibrahim from his father from Hamad from Rabee` from Zurara from Abu Ja`far عليه السلام.

He said: I heard him say: We cannot described, for how can a people from whom Allah has removed uncleanliness, meaning doubt, be described?

 

---

The narrations above indicate that the uncleanliness is any form of doubt in Allah. Meaning, the Ahl al-Bayt do not have doubts about their religion, and always choose to do good, without the influence of Satan (15:40). Remember that the verse uses the word "yureed", from the word "irada", meaning will or wish. Allah's irada in the Quran is that which He does and enacts right away without any need for contemplation or planning. So in 33:33, Allah says that He is actively staving off all doubts from the Ahl al-Bayt and purifying them thoroughly.

This verse is saying that Allah is constantly warding off evil and doubt from the Ahlul Bayt, for whenever Allah wills (irada) a thing, He merely says to it "be" and it is. The verse expresses a constant willingness of Allah to stave off all doubt so long that they exist.

[Arminmo]

8:11 was “just for” remembrance of purification a night before battle of badr  , Not more than that!

33:33 is purification for always!

Edited March 25, 2018 by Arminmo

[Arminmo]

@ShiaChat Mod

@Hameedeh

This user @Follower of Ahlulbayt seems suspicious to me, if you look at all of his posts it's about differences between Shia and Sunni (mutah, infallibility, wives to be ahlulbait,..) 

He seems more like a sunni-intruder trying to prove sunnis point of view.

Even the username he is pretending to be is suspicious "follower of ahlulbayt" !!

If "mods" can put him under surveillance.

Look what he says here, "sahaba are pure!"

[Follower of Ahlulbayt]

1 hour ago, Arminmo said:

This user @Follower of Ahlulbayt seems suspicious to me, if you look at all of his posts it's about differences between Shia and Sunni (mutah, infallibility, wives to be ahlulbait,..) 

He seems more like a sunni-intruder trying to prove sunnis point of view.

Even the username he is pretending to be is suspicious "follower of ahlulbayt" !!

If "mods" can put him under surveillance.

Look what he says here, "sahaba are pure!"

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235056517-questions-about-the-verse-of-purification/?do=findComment&comment=3130148

no brother i am just asking some of the doubts i have come across

[Muslim2010]

1 hour ago, Arminmo said:

This user @Follower of Ahlulbayt seems suspicious to me, if you look at all of his posts it's about differences between Shia and Sunni (mutah, infallibility, wives to be ahlulbait,..) 

He seems more like a sunni-intruder trying to prove sunnis point of view.

Even the username he is pretending to be is suspicious "follower of ahlulbayt" !!

If "mods" can put him under surveillance.

Look what he says here, "sahaba are pure!"

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235056517-questions-about-the-verse-of-purification/?do=findComment&comment=3130148

Your observation seems quite valid, but we should permit him to continue with these threads as it is a part of healthy discussions for us ie the true followers of Ahl alabayt of the prophet saaw.

wasalam

[Follower of Ahlulbayt]

On 3/25/2018 at 1:58 AM, Arminmo said:

Look what he says here, "sahaba are pure!

No i never said the sahaba were pure you have taken this out of context when i was asking question

[Muslim2010]

On 3/24/2018 at 4:16 PM, Salsabeel said:

It is not because of word "ankum" but because of words "innama" &  "yureedullah". The will mentioned in verse 33:33 is not the legislative will but an ontological will. 

https://www.al-islam.org/imamate-and-infallibility-imams-quran-ridha-kardan/chapter-6-imamate-quranic-verse-tatheer

Marvelous interpretation of "Inama" and "Yureed Allah" as mentioned in verse of purification.

[Follower of Ahlulbayt]

On 3/25/2018 at 2:27 AM, Qa'im said:

The narrations above indicate that the uncleanliness is any form of doubt in Allah. Meaning, the Ahl al-Bayt do not have doubts about their religion, and always choose to do good, without the influence of Satan (15:40). Remember that the verse uses the word "yureed", from the word "irada", meaning will or wish. Allah's irada in the Quran is that which He does and enacts right away without any need for contemplation or planning. So in 33:33, Allah says that He is actively staving off all doubts from the Ahl al-Bayt and purifying them thoroughly.

This verse is saying that Allah is constantly warding off evil and doubt from the Ahlul Bayt, for whenever Allah wills (irada) a thing, He merely says to it "be" and it is. The verse expresses a constant willingness of Allah to stave off all doubt so long that they exist.

Sorry for replying late to this

I don't see how you've come to the conclusion that just because doubts are kept away from the Ahl al-Bayt, this means that they will always do good? How have you come to that conclusion. 

Yes doubts are kept away from them, but what has that got to do with them being infallible and sinless? Many people today can claim that they have no doubts about Islam right? Does that they are infallible as well?

[haideriam]

You calling yourself infallible and Allahسُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى calling someone infallible are two completely different things bro. 

[Qa'im]

On 10/1/2018 at 4:58 AM, Follower of Ahlulbayt said:

Sorry for replying late to this

I don't see how you've come to the conclusion that just because doubts are kept away from the Ahl al-Bayt, this means that they will always do good? How have you come to that conclusion. 

Yes doubts are kept away from them, but what has that got to do with them being infallible and sinless? Many people today can claim that they have no doubts about Islam right? Does that they are infallible as well?

If you have absolutely no doubt that touching a fire will burn you, then you will never choose to touch that fire.

Likewise, the Imams had complete faith in Allah, to the point where they knew the consequence of all sins. To them, committing a sin would be like eating a rotting piece of food on the road - there's no good reason to do it.

When people sin, the light of faith leaves their heart, and in that moment of sin they are not believers. The Imams never have any doubt or shakiness in their faith - they are mukhlas.