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In the Name of God بسم الله
Ali Mahdi

British Shi'ism Exposed | The Shirazis, "Imam" Taw

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dividing politics from religion is the yazeed way of doing things.. did Imam Ali a.s seperate politics from religion? politics is part of the religion. Islam is a way of governance as well as a spiritual guide.. 

since 1979 after the US puppet shah was booted... the US supported saddam that rained chemical weapons and scud missles at Iran (shias). after that, the USA has implemented sanction after sanction suffocating every aspect of iranian life.. not to mention israel... saudi or isis...

so fo those that say cursing is wajib yet dont curse the usa have no idea what is the benefit of cursing..

 

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On 3/25/2018 at 5:28 AM, IbnSina said:

Islam is not a religion between you and you in the privacy of your home, its a religion between you and all of society, it encompasses all layers and functions of the world we live in

Yes, I know Islam is a social contract between Man and Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى but you are missing the point of I am trying to say,  there is a certain etiquette or urf to living in the West. Everyone follows a different religion in United States, I don't have a choice to but keep Islam in the privacy  of my home. Yes, I  try to apply fiqh in my interactions and everyday life but I don't rub my beliefs in people's faces; If they are interested, they will ask me.

Now going back to topic of what I was saying before ,  does it makes sense from your perspective, if a group of Iranians  shout"Marg bar Amerika" in streets of Tehran, Qom or Bandar-e-Abbas  and it gets filmed by some alarmist news reporter (e.g. Fox News),  goes on  the 24/7 news,  Americans watch it, get a skewed vision of Iranian culture and Shia Islam, they call the politicians  and the politicians put more sanctions on Iran which will effect trade,  ziyarat and tourism.  Maybe even a permanent ban....

Meanwhile,  I had  been planning to go to Mashhad and pay my respects to Imam Ridha (as) Now, I have to change plans, frustrating but such is the way of  life. If it is a permanent ban, then I am not frustrated, I am devastated that I will never go to Iran Then I go downstairs for dinner and as I am eating , I am subjected to the parroting and ranting about how "violent"and "backwards" the Iranians and Muslims are. I know you would get emotional and defensive if you heard what goes on this "conversation" but I endure it because I have to pick my fights and arguing with family is not a battle worth battling and un-Islamic in some instances.

Then I go on SC and you say :

On 3/25/2018 at 5:28 AM, IbnSina said:

does not render the slogan incorrect or wrong islamically to say.

And I am thinking "I am not a scholar but that has to be makruh" , Muslims should be extremely mindful of what we say in this era, lest we inadvertently affect the quality of life for our brothers and sisters in places where Muslims are demonized or portrayed as the other on the media . Tell me, what is the benefit of saying "Marg bar amerika" knowing the scenario I present and a glimpse of my home life...  I don't disagree with the message, America has done many evil things in the Middle East and put her nose where it doesn't belong in Iran and foolishly backed the Shah. If you can't answer this, don't worry about  it . I will ask my marja and post the answer here but  please think about what I  said.  If WF condones saying such slogans as a religious duty, then I need to rethink my views on WF.  Living in the West may be hard, but it is a good, safe place to be Shia. We can build masjids, we have the freedom to practice our beliefs, we can use this forum, good jobs, good education, no terrorists, etc.  Whereas in Pakistan, we are killed daily, mosques blown up,  the jobs suck, SC is banned and terrorist groups like Sipah-e-Sahaba  have political power and go after Shias.

On 3/25/2018 at 5:28 AM, IbnSina said:

What do you base this conclusion on exactly? 

I base my conclusion on the abject failures of the Catholic Church as a state government, as well as the oppression of Al-Saud . I am skeptical of religion and politics being inseparable because politics taints anything it touches.  You would think Wilayat  al-Faqih would have caught on in Bahrain, Iraq , Syria and Lebanon but no, it is a system that only works in Iran and that's fine to me. No problem. However,  I believe  that unless ruled by an infallible, politics are naturally going to corrupt government and anyone involved.  I think it would be best if scholars took on advisory roles and advised the politicians, instead of  holding offices and being directly involved. The scholars should guide us  spiritually and in our everyday lives instead of being politicians. Or at least political advisers, seeing as Islam is a political religion in some regards...

On 3/25/2018 at 5:28 AM, IbnSina said:

The learnt people have made it clear regarding the good/bad aspect of this slogan and that is all I need to consider when building my personal opinion on it.

I respect your decision but you do realize the slogans can be divisive and misunderstood right? With all due respect, the learnt people are still fallible. Clearly they haven't looked into every aspect of these slogans. Every time, there is a demonstration in Iran, the media constantly drills into the people, a perverse and twisted image of Islam as a barbaric, "freedom-hating" and  violent religion. Why give them more ammunition to poison people's minds with?  I may be a "fool" but I know when I see a problem...

On 3/25/2018 at 6:08 AM, kirtc said:

so fo those that say cursing is wajib yet dont curse the usa have no idea what is the benefit of cursing..

@kirtc That is clearly not I am saying, I am saying and if anyone has been taking the time to read, I said what is the benefit of cursing  when affects the livelihood of those living in the West?  The tongue is a lion,  unleashed it can severely wound and oppress people.

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12 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Now going back to topic of what I was saying before ,  does it makes sense from your perspective, if a group of Iranians  shout"Marg bar Amerika" in streets of Tehran, Qom or Bandar-e-Abbas  and it gets filmed by some alarmist news reporter (e.g. Fox News),  goes on  the 24/7 news,  Americans watch it, get a skewed vision of Iranian culture and Shia Islam, they call the politicians  and the politicians put more sanctions on Iran which will effect trade,  ziyarat and tourism.  Maybe even a permanent ban....

Meanwhile,  I had  been planning to go to Mashhad and pay my respects to Imam Ridha (as) Now, I have to change plans, frustrating but such is the way of  life. If it is a permanent ban, then I am not frustrated, I am devastated that I will never go to Iran Then I go downstairs for dinner and as I am eating , I am subjected to the parroting and ranting about how "violent"and "backwards" the Iranians and Muslims are. I know you would get emotional and defensive if you heard what goes on this "conversation" but I endure it because I have to pick my fights and arguing with family is not a battle worth battling and un-Islamic in some instances.

Then I go on SC and you say :

And I am thinking "I am not a scholar but that has to be makruh" , Muslims should be extremely mindful of what we say in this era, lest we inadvertently affect the quality of life for our brothers and sisters in places where Muslims are demonized or portrayed as the other on the media . Tell me, what is the benefit of saying "Marg bar amerika" knowing the scenario I present and a glimpse of my home life...  I don't disagree with the message, America has done many evil things in the Middle East and put her nose where it doesn't belong in Iran and foolishly backed the Shah. If you can't answer this, don't worry about  it . I will ask my marja and post the answer here but  please think about what I  said.  If WF condones saying such slogans as a religious duty, then I need to rethink my views on WF.  Living in the West may be hard, but it is a good, safe place to be Shia. We can build masjids, we have the freedom to practice our beliefs, we can use this forum, good jobs, good education, no terrorists, etc. 

So let me ask you honestly, if Iranians did stop the slogan, will the media suddenly potray a different image of Iran? Or will they simply move on to the next thing?

More than this slogan, Iran is being criticized for sponsoring extremism in the ME. Does that mean Iran should stop defending the shrine of Seyida Zaynab, or stop helping lebanese people defend themselves, so that it pleases america?

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29 minutes ago, shiasoldier786 said:

So let me ask you honestly, if Iranians did stop the slogan, will the media suddenly potray a different image of Iran? Or will they simply move on to the next thing?

I would hope so, but we both know that's very unlikely. Knowing the media, they would move on to the next thing.  However,  if Iran were seek a better method of calling the US on it's nonsense; A part of me thinks better diplomacy between the US will spell the end of Zionist influence because Israel doesn't want the US to have better relations with Iran. I want better US- Iran relations, so ziyarat is guaranteed no matter what. I don't like the Zionist lobbies in Washington either, that's another reason why. Theoretically speaking , there should be no foreign interests involved in American politics at all, especially in the form of lobbies.

If better relations ensure, I feel America will break free from the Zionist yoke, insha'Allah.

Quote

so that it pleases america?

29 minutes ago, shiasoldier786 said:

More than this slogan, Iran is being criticized for sponsoring extremism in the ME. Does that mean Iran should stop defending the shrine of Seyida Zaynab, or stop helping lebanese people defend themselves

No, to me, it means that Iran needs to seek better methods of defending the Lebanese people and shrine of Sayedna Zainab (as)

Also, I never said anything about pleasing America,  I am just tired of the blatant lies about Iran and Muslims from media (Fox,  CNN, etc.) and it influencing my family.

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar

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On 3/25/2018 at 3:53 PM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

rtc That is clearly not I am saying, I am saying and if anyone has been taking the time to read, I said what is the benefit of cursing  when affects the livelihood of those living in the West?  The tongue is a lion,  unleashed it can serevely wound and oppress people.

Sometimes cursing is necessary with all negative view of cursing USA & Israel gov Iran Gov could achieve its current power ,when you look at rest of Islamic countries you see that them became puppets of USA &only countries could stand against them were Iran ,Iraq & Syria just by cursing the Yazid’s of their times one of differences of Shias with other Muslim is that we use cursing as a weapon against tyrants not like as Wahabis which they use lol of their energy for cursing shia Muslims instead of fighting with enemies of Islam.

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On 3/20/2018 at 2:50 PM, Ali Mahdi said:

Thank you!!

Though I was aware of the 4 but failed to draw the line with Ammars agenda. I recall a lecture during the days of Muharram, where Ammar was clearly on one side praising the Mujtahids and at the same time leaving bomb shells questioning their integrity. It was masterfully produced, well thought out and almost perfectly clandestine....almost a perfect inkling to give the audience some post-sour taste. During those 10 days of lectures several times Ammar attacked the process of these Learned men acquiring Khums and as to what purpose with eyebrows raised with a probing smile. He, several times, questioned the system of WF as a theoretic shade of islamic derailing, questioned students in the Hauza being scripted to return to their homes to produce chunks of donations for the expansion of the WF, etc etc etc. 

Those lectures for me were sufficient to place Ammar in the list of ''possible threats". Worst of, the very unity Ammar subscribes to, he goes to lengths to highlight and revive what disunites the Muslim ummah, to the extent, in one lecture he heavily focused on minor differences amongst the great Shia Aalims with facial impressions and loud absconding bellows, leaving strong impressions as if these were major obstructions.

Besides his words, his arrogance, facial impressions, lack of humbleness and this fashionable trait to please the audience with dangerous humour and bigotry, I admit I was drawn to him, seeking hope for a better and more refined speaker.....FAILED!! My heart never trusted him and I'm glad others express the same/similar views!

Thank you for a great insight!!

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Lets all consider whether we should be talking bad about Ammar. It's not always good to form an opinion so quickly, I know the way he dresses might influence people to do so, which is wrong.

I do hope that he stays away from the British Shirazi circle and gets inspired by respectable scholars such as Mohammad Shomali.

imgonline-com-ua-CompressToSize-iwkKmu0AdxSbm.jpg

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On 24/03/2018 at 5:46 PM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Politics should not be burdened on the scholars. That's what a President/Prime Minister is for.

So you prefer someone uneducated in religion to govern the nation?

I think we should not think of WF as a dictorship or one person rule, but rather a system, a meretricious system then ensures a safe successful state.

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36 minutes ago, iraqi_shia said:

So you prefer someone uneducated in religion to govern the nation?

No, I didn't imply that. I would prefer someone who is a skilled statesman and politician to govern the  nation, who is or is willing to be guided by the religious principles and scholars of the Jafari madhab.  

43 minutes ago, iraqi_shia said:

I think we should not think of WF as a dictorship or one person rule, but rather a system, a meretricious system then ensures a safe successful state.

Yet so many seen to think it is a one person rule, which isn't true but I do think there should be a Supreme Council, instead of a Supreme Leader.  Which makes me sound like a Shirazi supporter, I am not.

I just question if the slogans are supposed to be a integral part of WF,  if they are;  I either need to rethink my views or read more about it. What I am trying to get at is this: I believe there are better ways to denounce the government of the US, without alienating and instilling in the American people and making life harder for the Shias that live there.

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On 3/25/2018 at 7:04 PM, Ashvazdanghe said:

Sometimes cursing is necessary with all negative view of cursing USA & Israel gov Iran Gov could achieve its current power ,when you look at rest of Islamic countries you see that them became puppets of USA &only countries could stand against them were Iran ,Iraq & Syria just by cursing the Yazdi’s of their times one of differences of Shias with other Muslim is that we use cursing as a weapon against tyrants not like as Wahabis which they use lol of their energy for cursing shia Muslims instead of fighting with enemies of Islam.

But is there a better way?   Two of these enemies are beyond reasoning (Israel and Saudi Arabia), America  has a very dark history with the Middle East and rightly shouldn't be trusted, but people are beginning to wake up with the reality of Zionism and they are not pleased with the government boot-licking  towards Saudi and  Israel. 

https://www.adl.org/blog/anti-israel-and-anti-semitic-protests-in-us-and-major-international-cities-in-response-to

http://www.nukeresister.org/2017/12/12/protesting-u-s-supported-saudi-led-war-on-yemen-at-u-s-mission-to-the-u-n-leads-to-14-arrests/

Remember, these people give power to the representatives they vote for. These people will vote after protesting and they will vote the Zionists out of position if they vote. 

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Some people attach Syed Sadiq Shirazi as the leader of the group comprised of Yasir Habib, Allahyari, Tawhidi, Mujtaba Shirazi and the whole Mi6 nexus accused of defaming shiasm and active in Britain. Is that true? 

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On 3/27/2018 at 2:29 AM, Ibn al-Hussain said:

Thirdly, the main team of Islamic Pulse in Qom is not interested in studying the Islamic sciences in depth or intensively. In fact not only have one or two of their team members expressed this to me explicitly, or those who previously worked there and then left for the very same reason (i.e. the work demand are a lot and do not allow you to study as much as a student should be if there is any intent on becoming a scholar), but more than one individual can affirm that their primary agenda in Qom is not to study, but rather to engage in a soft-war with the enemies of the Islamic government, the system of Wilayat al-Faqih and the Wali al-Faqih. While this may be a noble cause, their lack of studies and depth of the Islamic sciences and understanding of the history or context in which some of these discussions take place is blatantly obvious in some of these videos (whether it is this specific one or some of the Biskit ones or any other ones where they themselves decide to engage their audience on an Islamic topic). In other words, the number of mistakes they make in these type of videos is far more than the amount they can pinpoint from speeches of Ammar Nakshwani (who most seminarians in Qom will say makes a lot of mistakes off the pulpit - and I agree that he does, but who doesn't).

And you think they publish videos without the approval and review of those more religiously knowledgeable?

Its good we have knowledgeable hawza brothers like you who can use their knowledge to discredit others but not to do better themselves. The world needs more of those.

[Mod Note: Inappropriate image was removed.]

Edited by Hameedeh
Mod Note

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1 hour ago, IbnSina said:

And you think they publish videos without the approval and review of those more religiously knowledgeable?

Its good we have knowledgeable hawza brothers like you who can use their knowledge to discredit others but not to do better themselves. The world needs more of those.

2

Firstly, stopping the less knowledgeable among us from being misguided is a good deed by itself, no? Why, then, are you sarcastically condemning him?

Secondly, just because he isn't posting videos on the matter doesn't mean he's not doing his part. He may not have the time to do so. He did make a post about it, did he not? How about instead of responding to an intellectual criticism of a topic with ad hominem attacks, you respond with your own intellectual argument (like the first sentence of your post) or keep quiet?

Edited by Khadim uz Zahra

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8 hours ago, Ibn al-Hussain said:

Anyone in Qom can find the approval of any teacher of their liking - you will find dozens of opinions and frameworks upon completely different worldviews are based. This is even easier to do if you came to Qom with preconceived notions and with an agenda to begin with. It isn't that difficult to find some teachers approving of their videos (you should perhaps ask them which of the Western scholars who are more religiously knowledgeable - whatever your criteria for that is - agree with their videos, especially the one shared on this thread). People in communities back home need to work on much better standards of accepting what is coming from the students and scholars in Qom and put scholars to task to ensure only the best quality, well-researched material is being spread (not some half-baked political videos).

Anyways, I personally have issues with students getting 'approvals' of Iranian teachers who have never lived in the West, nor engaged in a serious study of occidentology, with respect to what a student's responsibility is in the West. I can cite examples from the communities of England and North America where blunders took place simply because some 'approval' was coming through some teacher sitting in Iran. This whole mentality needs to be seriously reconsidered.

Wasalam

I agree with you on one point and that is that it can be hard for scholars from the other side of earth to understand this side of the earth.

However, I also see that the western raised people that go to hawzas that are funded by the ummah to study for years, come back and do not gap the difference between the generations of muslims, rather they go back to life as "usual". I think this is an even bigger problem, that nobody is picking up the torch, which leads to new problems being addressed in old ways.

As far as this video goes, the essence of what the brothers said was not wrong. There are foreign sponsored scholars within the shia community that are creating fitna, the brothers pointed this out and high lighted it, which is very important to do in these kinds of soft wars against the shias, to create clarity. Yes, maybe it could have been presented in a better way and manner but to remain silent during confusion like this can create even more damage in my opinion.

I remember a brother in my own mosque that used to lead a youth group, this youth group later got disbanded because one of the events received negative publicity from outside the mosque. This brother was more or less the one running the youth group and nobody ells seemed interested in participating in the planning and administration of the group, everyone said they did not have time. Yet when the negative publicity came, everyone that did not have time to help now had all the time to condemn him and time to give their opinions on the matter and how much smarter they are themselves and how much differently they would have done it.

Now there is no more youth group and subsequently some youth disappeared from the mosque, mainly reverts not fluent in arabic or farsi, and the ones that are left are the ones too busy to create something but not too busy to criticize others work. That is truly sad.

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13 hours ago, Ibn al-Hussain said:

 

Allow me to give a simple example regarding how complicated even just the theoretical discussion on "unity" is (let alone practical and how we are to implement it), just so people on here can think about it from a different perspective. The notion of interfaith or interreligious dialogue or unity is a modern phenomenon that sprung out of the modern secular state. For much of human history, there was no concept of interfaith or interreligious unity, because it made no sense to be on good terms with someone you fundamentally and theologically disagreed with and considered them to be hell-bound. The mainstream Shi'i theological view is no different. You can pick up any scholar from the classical period, up until recently with the likes of Sayyid al-Khu'i and Imam Khomeini, and you will find that everyone (minus perhaps a few reformist scholars in contemporary times) believed that Sunnis, in reality, are like disbelievers and polytheists, whose actions are not accepted and we only treat them as Muslims apparently in this world. In fact, Shaykh Yusuf al-Bahrani went as far as to say that Sunnis are Najis even apparently. This was a basic theological premise that scholars of a religion had regarding others (including Sunni scholars towards us). This theological premise then, of course, begins to show in your jurisprudence when it is allowed to backbite the Sunnis because they are not considered our brothers and believers - mu'min (many jurists believe this ruling to be from the necessities of our Fiqh - the only major jurist who was against it, as far as I know, was Muqaddis Ardebelli and he was pretty much a Sayyid Kamal al-Haydari of his time and jurists like Sahib al-Jawahir critiqued Ardebelli very harshly), it tells you to not physically defend them in a jihad if they are being attacked (because it will result in you in aiding misguidance), it allows you to accuse them falsely and condemn or curse them, and as a matter of fact it leaves no room for you to discuss "unity" with them.

I personally suggest - those who are interested in the topic of Shia-Sunni unity - to really investigate the matter in more depth. What is the nature of unity that we keep bringing up? Is it a real unity or is it temporary and only apparent? Can unity even be achieved through an internalist perspective of religion, or do we need to base it on something outside of religion (for example the ethical principle of nobility that all humans enjoy)? If it can be achieved through an internalist perspective, do we need to do ijtihad in our theological stance - something some scholars have pushed for in order to make sense of unity and proximity? On the tongues of an average Shia, if unity means to come together on common grounds to fight against the enemies, what happens once this goal is achieved? Does unity lose its relevance at that point since an external enemy no longer exists and the only enemy now is an internal one who you fundamentally disagree with and believe is hell-bound? Often times the problem is rooted in the words we use themselves. For example, unity is a very vague word and I assure you it is a lot more complicated than just saying, it is to unite on common grounds without compromising our beliefs. Research into the history of when the discourse on unity and proximity in the Islamic world began (you don't have to look too far, maybe maximum a 100-150 years ago). Look into the socio-political factors that pushed some scholars to bring this discussion up, who these scholars were (Sunni and Shi'a) and help yourself get a better understanding of the arguments of those who are pro and anti-unity. After all that, then try to understand the notion in the context of global politics and Iran's role as a representative of Twelver-Imami Shi'ism.

Unfortunately, I do not have the time to expound on this any further, but those who can read Arabic, this might be a good start for them: http://hobbollah.com/articles/التعدّدية-المذهبية-مشروع-التقريب-وإش/

Wasalam

:salam:

The fact interfaith dialogue was left aside by the marja`iya for centuries, and that fellow muslims were treated as kafirs does not mean that it is not an important topic, 1/ because of the example our Imams gave us on how to deal with them, and 2/ taking into consideration the corruptions our books and even our marja`iya underwent throughout history and subsequent dynasties. 

 

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I think some of us are neglecting the dangerous and detrimental characteristics of the Shirazi movement/British Shia (whatever its name is). I am going to list some of these dangerous behaviors and characteristics:

1. They are using Ahlulbayt against Ahlulbayt:

While it’s clear that Imam Ali corporated with Caliphs, while we know in many cases he helped and even defended them, while we know our Imams asked us to respect Sunnis, pray along with their tribe, visit their sick people, attend their funerals, so on and so forth (Read the contents in this link to see how wide the extent of Islamic Unity is), we are seeing people in this movement saying: ” there is no unity between us and the followers of X and Y who oppressed Ahlulbayt”, “Unity with Sunnis is a political scam”, “Unity doesn’t make sense, unless they follow the path of Ahlulbayt” etc. Clearly these are against what Ahlulbayt did and what Ahlulbayt want us to do.

The same can be said about their behaviors regarding disrespecting Sunnis’ respected symbols.

Yes, we too know what they did to Ahlulbayt. We too know who deserves to be cursed. But...

2. They have a habit of creating controversy over differences:

Differences between scholars are natural. Scholars have various differences over several issues and or individuals – Irfan, tatbir, Rumi, Wahdat Wojoud, Ibn Arabi, fiqhi issues etc. But you rarely see them making a big deal out of it or make takfir on others. However, you see people in this movement making differences political and even make takfir on other scholars – which comes from their takfiri ideology. They even don’t call Iran, Islamic Republic, but Republic of Iran. This is ridiculous.

w2c_shirazi-banner-1.jpg

3. They are castrating Shia and making it safe to the oppressors:

While we are asked to be “اشدا علی الکفار” and “للظالم خصم”, oppressors don’t regard this movement as a danger to them. Shia is identified with its special characteristics in fighting tawaghit and oppressors. Emerging a group among us that is acting against these characteristics is there to distort this identity.

This is one example, out of many (it's about Shirazis' hussayniah in London):

Quote

Zionists back Golders Green mosque after discovering it doesn’t like Iran and isn’t obsessed with Israel:

Zionist approval

The Israel Advocacy Movement posted on their Facebook page: “So this evening we were shown around the ‘Golders Green Mega Mosque’, turns out it isn’t even a mosque (never mind a mega mosque – what an anticlimax  ) – it’s a community centre. There has been a lot of talk about this amongst the followers of this page. So even though it has nothing to do with Israel we thought we’d update you with what we discovered.

– The mosque is affiliated with Ayatollah Shirazi, not Ayatollah Khomeini
– Consequently it doesn’t have anything to do with the al-Quds march
– The people that showed us around were incredibly warm and welcoming
– Those of you that are involved in campaigning against this mosque/commmunity centre, please don’t rush to judgement do your own research.

https://5pillarsuk.com/2017/10/25/zionists-back-golders-green-mosque-after-discovering-it-doesnt-like-iran-and-isnt-obsessed-with-israel/

It’s not just that. Not only are they benign toward our enemies, but also:

4. They are regarded as hope for enemies to pursue their goals:

Quote

The followers of Imam Shirazi have already demonstrated an ability to utilize the internet and new media to disseminate the teachings of their revered teacher. These voices could be amplified and situated in the narrative context of Karbala through new media. This may maximize its use as a counter-narrative against the regime and its claims to represent the Twelver Shi'ite Muslims of the world, including populations in Lebanon, Iraq, and Pakistan, among others. The use of online video to depict Shirazi and Khamenei in these archetypal roles is one method of doing so. 

The State Department may be able to facilitate such efforts, especially among university students, through books, leaflets, radio broadcasts (e.g. Voice of America, Radio Free Asia), television (e.g. Al-Hurra) or previously mentioned web-based assets such as blogs.

The United States would also do well to cultivate relationships with the Shiraziyyin at home and abroad, and encourage improved freedoms for their communities in eastern Saudi Arabia by using its influence with the Saudi monarchy. The United States needs allies in the Muslim world who believe in coexistence and democracy. The Shiraziyyin appear to be a natural fit.

https://csc.asu.edu/wp-content/uploads/pdf/125.pdf

Fit for enemy's agenda...

Maybe now we can know where these so many media tool they have come from, can't we?

We are also seeing them doing what enemies seek in regard to Ummah unity -- a good tool for enemies to add fuel the fire of differences among us and Sunnis.

5. They, willingly or unwillingly, are endangering the lives of Shias:

For some Sunnis, being a Shia is a crime -- an unforgivable crime which allows them to kill you. That’s why we are being killed since the very beginning just for being Shia. But there is an important “but” here. For many other Sunnis, being a Shia alone is not considered a crime, but if you disrespect their holy figures then yes, you must be killed.

I translate remarks by head of a terrorist group in Eastern Iran, named Abdul-Malik Rigi (more than 150 Iranian citizen were killed and more than 300 were injured by this group – let’s not talk about how he was being supported by the US and how he was arrested):

Quote

If you insult hazrat Aisha –this is Allah’s verdict- or [other] Rasullah’s wives, then in this case you are disbeliever in Him and choose kufr. So what is Shia?

Audience: Kafir

And everyone who disrespects hazrat Aishsa sediqah must be killed.

Also we should not forget when Daeshis were killing Shias in Speicher mass killing, they were shouting “ثار لام المومنین عایشه (blood/revenge for mother of believers Aisha)”

ثار لام المومنین عایشه” is a natural respond to “عایشه فی النار’’. Do those who are promoting the ceremonies where these things are being said know the consequences of their activity? Does Sadiq Shirazi know this? Do his sons know this? Do his followers know this?

If only you knew Persian:

http://www.ansarclip.ir/video/6582/مستندی-گویا-از-نقش-شیعه-انگلیسی-در-کشتار-شیعیان/

Add to the list how they are playing with the marjaiaiah position (remember they even advertised for their marja on this very site, does a marja need to be advertised in this way), the picture of Shia they are presenting and …

Although many other things left to be said about this movement (maybe in another time), its goal, its agenda and its activity, aren’t these things enough for all of us to see this movement as a danger to Islam and Shia?

Edited by kamyar

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13 hours ago, IbnSina said:

I agree with you on one point and that is that it can be hard for scholars from the other side of earth to understand this side of the earth.

However, I also see that the western raised people that go to hawzas that are funded by the ummah to study for years, come back and do not gap the difference between the generations of muslims, rather they go back to life as "usual". I think this is an even bigger problem, that nobody is picking up the torch, which leads to new problems being addressed in old ways.

As far as this video goes, the essence of what the brothers said was not wrong. There are foreign sponsored scholars within the shia community that are creating fitna, the brothers pointed this out and high lighted it, which is very important to do in these kinds of soft wars against the shias, to create clarity. Yes, maybe it could have been presented in a better way and manner but to remain silent during confusion like this can create even more damage in my opinion.

I remember a brother in my own mosque that used to lead a youth group, this youth group later got disbanded because one of the events received negative publicity from outside the mosque. This brother was more or less the one running the youth group and nobody ells seemed interested in participating in the planning and administration of the group, everyone said they did not have time. Yet when the negative publicity came, everyone that did not have time to help now had all the time to condemn him and time to give their opinions on the matter and how much smarter they are themselves and how much differently they would have done it.

Now there is no more youth group and subsequently some youth disappeared from the mosque, mainly reverts not fluent in arabic or farsi, and the ones that are left are the ones too busy to create something but not too busy to criticize others work. That is truly sad.

At masjids in the US, there are several layers of problems. These problems and issues are not the same ones in say, for example Pakistan or Iraq, which is the main reason why ulema who are 'parachuted in' to the US from other countries usually have no clue what the problems are or how to address them. They are also usually unfamiliar with the language or culture of the wider community they are in, which compounds the issue. So what ends up happening is that they become insular and only do the things which are done in every masjid (salat, funerals, etc). Although these are necessary, they are not sufficient in order to fulfill the needs of the members of the masjid (not most of the members anyway). Then you have the big donors, i.e. the 'bosses' of the masjid who probably are the ones who 'parachuted in' the scholar so they have a vested interest in only looking at the positive things he is doing and ignoring everything else. These are the main reasons why you see, especially youth and reverts, leaving the masjids in droves. They don't feel that they belong there or that the place can help them in any way with the issues that they are dealing with. Since these are the 'new generation' and will be the decision makers in the future, it is really scary to think about what will happen in the next 20 years or so because of this. 

The main problem is that the 'bosses' think of the masjid as their personal property which they and only they have the right to control. This, of course, is completely the opposite of what Islam says regarding the masjids. In Islam, there are rules regarding the masjid, which are outlined clearly in the books of fiqh(nothing najis should enter a masjid, mosque should be clean, etc) but except when activities conflict with one of these rules, masjids should be a place of open dialog and discussion and a place of various kinds of activities which benefit the people of the community and a place to address the needs of the community, whatever those needs are at the time. 

 

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On 3/28/2018 at 5:26 AM, Abu Hadi said:

At masjids in the US, there are several layers of problems. These problems and issues are not the same ones in say, for example Pakistan or Iraq, which is the main reason why ulema who are 'parachuted in' to the US from other countries usually have no clue what the problems are or how to address them. They are also usually unfamiliar with the language or culture of the wider community they are in, which compounds the issue. So what ends up happening is that they become insular and only do the things which are done in every masjid (salat, funerals, etc). Although these are necessary, they are not sufficient in order to fulfill the needs of the members of the masjid (not most of the members anyway). Then you have the big donors, i.e. the 'bosses' of the masjid who probably are the ones who 'parachuted in' the scholar so they have a vested interest in only looking at the positive things he is doing and ignoring everything else. These are the main reasons why you see, especially youth and reverts, leaving the masjids in droves. They don't feel that they belong there or that the place can help them in any way with the issues that they are dealing with. Since these are the 'new generation' and will be the decision makers in the future, it is really scary to think about what will happen in the next 20 years or so because of this. 

The main problem is that the 'bosses' think of the masjid as their personal property which they and only they have the right to control. This, of course, is completely the opposite of what Islam says regarding the masjids. In Islam, there are rules regarding the masjid, which are outlined clearly in the books of fiqh(nothing najis should enter a masjid, mosque should be clean, etc) but except when activities conflict with one of these rules, masjids should be a place of open dialog and discussion and a place of various kinds of activities which benefit the people of the community and a place to address the needs of the community, whatever those needs are at the time. 

And what responsibility would you say returning hawza students that have been raised in west have with regards to this and would you say they fulfill that responsibility?

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The responsibility of these students is to see what is actually going on in the communities where they live and attempt to address those issues from an Islamic perspective based on the knowledge they have gained and not let themselves be overly influenced by the 'bosses' or 'big shots' of the community to focus on things which are not important or ignore things which are important. That is basically it. 

They should not go in with 'preconceived' or 'pre-baked' ideas in their head about what the community is and what the problem are or are not. Every community is different. They should have open and detailed conversations and keep their eyes and ears open and let that guide their actions. Also, they should spend time having conversations and doing activities with those groups which are ignored by the traditional institutions. 

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I have seen this video. He seems to be referring to Iran as those "muslim countries" who are promoting fitna. Its very disheartening to see how followers of Ahlulbayt (as) are indulging in such infighting. Surely they have the best examples to look up to. 

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