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In the Name of God بسم الله
Ali Mahdi

British Shi'ism Exposed | The Shirazis, "Imam" Taw

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1 hour ago, shiaman14 said:

That's the thing. The much respected WF wants shias to stop tatbir because of the image it portrays but in turn continue with the "Death to America" chants. I can say from personal that more people have asked me about these chants and slogans than about tatbir.

So if we are concerned about our image, then these chants should stop first before tatbir.

I agreed with you about one aspect of this in my previous post, but i have to disagree with you that the chants do more harm than Tatbir. There is not a shadow of doubt Tatbir does significant more harm. Let us put aside the image problem also, one is a legitimate chant that might not be the best thing to say as it gets twisted, but still it is in line with Islam, whereas we argue Tatbir goes against much of what Islam stands for.Obviously i don't want to turn this thread into one about Tatbir.

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2 minutes ago, Intellectual Resistance said:

I don't think he knows about Tawhidi to be fair to him. Tawhidi has pictures with a lot of people, including scholars. On the surface he looks like a humble, educated and sensible individual, wearing that garment and looking as he does. Obviously he isn't. This doesn't absolve Sayed Ammar of the need to perform background checking, but if he knew and he might do now, he wouldn't associate with him.

Thanks.

I've read he's pro-Shirazi and pro-tatbir. Is this all correct?

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11 minutes ago, Hussaini624 said:

Thanks.

I've read he's pro-Shirazi and pro-tatbir. Is this all correct?

He is, but again, i don't think he has any legitimate connection to him, in anything other than the Anti-Iran rhetoric. 

EDIT: I can't confirm the pro-Tatbir part though as i have no evidence. 

Edited by Intellectual Resistance

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On 3/20/2018 at 10:08 PM, shiaman14 said:

The Islamic Pulse folks are staunch WF supporters to the point that they consider non-WFers to be non-shias...almost

WF is something that scholars agree on as far as i am aware, even Sayed Sistani and Sayed Khui', but the problem is they disagree on the extent of it. Someone can correct me if i am wrong however. So it isn't really just a theory that has no solid religious basis, but scholars might differ on the application of it and to what extent that is. Even Sayed Sistani differed with Sayed Khui' on that. 

In my view, i don't think their problem is people who don't buy into what Iran is doing with it, but people hostile to it and abusive.

I am quoting brother Jafar al-Shilbi:

"This is what Sayed Alī al-Khāminīy said in his: Taḥrīr al-Masā'il:

(Taken from my personal copy al-Khāminīy's Taḥrīr al-Masā'il, pg. 22, Question. 41, Dār al-Nabā’ Kuwait, 3rd edition)

post-180327-0-50786700-1434366306_thumb.

"(and) those who do not profess (/believe) in the Wilāyat al-Faqīh al-Muṭlaqah, whether that be from ijtihād (diligence) or Taqlīd (imitation of a scholar) in the time of occultation (Ghaybah) of the [imām al-] Ḥujjah (May Allāh hasten his reappearance), it does not obligate (/affirm) apostasy and the disembarkation from Islām. And whomever is lead by evidence and indications to not profess (/believe) in it, then he is excused, however it is not permissible for him propagate sectarianism and disagreements between the Muslims".

See, the version of Wilayah al-Faqih discussed here is the al-Mutlaqah version, rather than WF in and of itself. 

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Man, where do you begin? Ammar is somehow linked to the Iraq war in this video and that's used to tarnish his reputation, but you know who else supported that war? Iran. Iran worked with the US on Afghanistan to overthrow the Taliban, and if you listen to this guy's videos on the Iran protests, he says 9/11 was a false-flag, which would make the invasion of Afghanistan that Iran worked with the US on even more illegal than it was (it was still illegal btw, because there were diplomatic alternatives that weren't exhausted and the security council never authorised the war). So, his argument falls apart because using the logic he uses, it would make Iran a tool of the CIA and MI6 too (which it obviously isn't). As muslims in the West, we need to understand that yes the UK/US governments are tyrannical in many ways, but we can't just sit and complain that won't change anything, we need to engage politically in every which way we can. I'll give you an example of my own case, I contacted my state senator to support a resolution which would end US involvement in Yemen and end military aid to Saudi because of the war in Yemen, I didn't expect a response, but not only did he respond, he voted for the resolution which unfortunately was blocked today because too many republican senators voted no. He even stated many constituents had expressed similar concerns. Politics is tough, and you don't end up getting the results you need but I firmly believe if we want to fight for causes that we deem important in the West, we need to be involved politically, develop a relationship with your senator, talk to them on issues, not just Middle East issues but also domestic issues, make your voice heard. You won't always get what you want but political engagement can enable you to build groups, put more pressure and attempt to sway opinion. Also, be sure to have discussions on issues, share stuff on social media, use twitter, get the word out to people, many will make the effort to support you if they know the truth and that'll only aid your cause. We can sit in mosques, say death to America and stuff, but what's that going to change? I think SAN recognises this too. I can understand why Iranians use it given their history, but we live in the West not in Iran, so our approach has to be different. There have been cases in history where political pressure has forced change like with the civil rights movement for example. It wasn't easy, it took years and years of struggle but it paid off. I think we have a few Shiite lobby groups in the US, but I think their focus is exclusively on gulf states and Pakistan. If any of you know any other groups apart from ShiaPAC, let me know because I've been looking up different groups with no real luck. 

Edited by Mohamed1993

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There are several men being discussed here, so do not use the word he when you reply. If you use the name Shirazi, please do us a favor by letting us know which one you are referring to. Thanks. 

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4 hours ago, Intellectual Resistance said:

Yes, he is definitely not in that group. I really think this was an error of the brothers at Islamic Pulse to lump him in with that crowd, even if he has been doing somethings one would regard as questionable. 

Syed Ammar has actually done videos condemning Yasser Habib

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7 hours ago, Intellectual Resistance said:

Yes, he is definitely not in that group. I really think this was an error of the brothers at Islamic Pulse to lump him in with that crowd, even if he has been doing somethings one would regard as questionable. 

The problem of people like Nakhshawani is that he mixs  right & wrong together & make separating of these two from each other difficult if he was directly insulting it wasn't hard but he mix these two types by academic language .

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8 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

While we know what the chant "Death to America" means, it is naive to imagine that all Americans know what that means. All they see are millions shouting this slogan at the top of their voices. 

If they wish to know what it means, it is easy to find out. If they wish to make assumptions, even if there is a answer, it wont matter. This does not mean that denouncing oppressors, putting historical perspective and having clear basira regarding todays world/politics should be stopped.

Or should we stop being muslims because they think muslims hate them?

Furthermore to compare tatbir to this slogan is really absurd in my opinion. Tatbir has no basis in islam, opposing yazeeds(la) in a clear matter does. Especially in this day and age were media twists everything, it is even more important, for our own youths at least, to be very clear.

 

8 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

Actually Ammar has become more politically active now than before which is reflected in his speeches.

He is (was) promoting the shia agenda in the US.

I do not know what he is doing on the side all I can say from my own personal observations is that he used to be a better speaker, much better. Maybe he would do more good for the ummah focusing on religious speeches rather than mixing in politics and creating internal rifts.

 

7 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

The Islamic Pulse folks are staunch WF supporters to the point that they consider non-WFers to be non-shias...almost

Come one brother, is it really wise to use this kind of rhetoric?

This is the kind of rhetoric that will cause a shia-shia split. Instead of making these kind of extreme exaggeration regarding what WF followers think of shias who do not follow WF, why dont you ask the leader of WF what they think?

And it is not relevant what that one indo-pak shia WF follower told you in a discussion you had with him in your imam bargah, its better to go to the source and find out the truth of the matter if you have the opportunity and in this case you do.

To say or even hint at that WF followers might even consider non WF followers non shias is a GRAVE exaggeration that only causes hatred and fitna, dont be like that brother. 

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I would say that I have some disagreement about this video. I mean for exemple they criticized Ammar nashkawani for saying that some personalities venerated by sunnis were actually murderers. But even if that don't please the sunnis is it not true? We can't criticize them academically ? Same about the issue of cursing the first caliphs. 

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Just now, Laayla said:

Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum 

Never was comfortable with Nakshawani from the very beginning.  My gut feeling was right.

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah 

British Shi'ism Exposed | The Shirazis, "Imam" Tawhidi, Yassir Habib, Allayari | BACKFIRE 

A new twisted brand of British “Shiaism” now threatens to break apart the Islamic Ummah. Have you ever wondered why Takfiri Wahhabis - or even some Sunni brothers who have unfortunately fallen into the Takfiri mindset - hate you the moment they find out you’re Shia? That’s because there is a corrupted shade of Shia Islam which has been painted by British policies in order to taint the image of the noble Shia School of Thought.

Islamic Pulse breaks down the main figureheads of the Shirazi Cult. As well as individuals like Mujtaba Shirazi, Yassir Habib, Brother Tawhidi, Husayn Shirazi, Allayari - Muslims must be aware that there is a corrupt "Marja" who is fanning the flames of sectarianism. Muslims must be cautious of any public speakers who endorse this corrupt Marja, including individuals like Ammar Nakshawani.

The corruption being created by British Shiaism goes deeper than you can imagine and things can be confusing at times. Understand the dynamics and follow the principles taught to us by the Ahlulbayt (A). This video is just an introduction. We will bring you more in-depth background of this British-driven cult and how they are creating fitna within the Muslim Ummah. Stay tuned! Insha'Allah.

Duration: 29:37

islamicpulse.tv
fb.com/islamicpulse
twitter.com/islamic_pulse
telegram.me/islamicpulse
 instagram.com/islamicpulse
 shiatv.net/user/islamicpulse

Alhamdulillah. The driving forces behind the devisions within shiism are known been exposed

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Just now, ali_fatheroforphans said:

@shiaman14 Tatbir and "Death to America" chant are completely different areas which we shouldn't compare.

The "Death to America" chant is a political chant which has history associated with it - something which means a lot to the Irannians who fought for freedom. I think we as foreigners never understand what Irannians went through and as long as America continues to be evil, then the "Death to America" chant is totally understandable.

Tatbir is something Sadiq Al Shirazi labels as "recommended" meaning he is linking it to religion with no basis - we are to be rewarded if we engage in tatbir. Majority of our great scholars have a strong stand against it and it surely sets a bad image for Shias, as people think it has a religious basis.

The death to America chants is understandable because isn't pro iran its Pro human freedom and justice for all. America and Israel are the evil countries that had revealed it self so far Using sa'udi Arabia to black paint islam and muslims. if America is Pro human rights where are the So called Human rights when Yemen Genocide is taking place????

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Just now, Follower of Ahlulbayt said:

Syed Ammar has actually done videos condemning Yasser Habib

I watched that too but its a mistake to back shirazis in thier movement against the waliyul faqih 

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Just now, Hussaini624 said:

Sayed Ammar sure has good intentions, slips here and there but that's not the main thing.

Him taking a picture with Imam Tawhidi, is this acceptable?

Why would he EVER associate with the likes of him?

Never acceptable, Imam Ali is saying he who ever place hes self in a place to be suspected should never blame those who suspects him. So Ammar Nakshawani is at fault.

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20 hours ago, Ali Mahdi said:

Salam, 

The main problem with this video is that it presents a false dichotomy. 

It reflects the intellectal laziness of people. 

People tend to divide everything to black and white and not care for the vast gray area. 

In this video, one group/side was labelled evil, while the other group was labelled as righteous. However, these aren't the only two options available. 

Perhaps both group are deviants. Or perhaps each group is correct on some issues and incorrect on some other issues. 

At the end of the day, it is up to each individual to study the ahadith of Ahlul Bayt (as), distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable ahadith, then determine what Ahlul Bayt (as) have taught us. 

As much I liked this video for the information that it provided, I disliked it for simplifying the issue and paiting a false dischotomy. It only perpetuates the intellectual laziness of the Umma. 

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On 3/21/2018 at 11:50 AM, SoRoUsH said:

Salam, 

The main problem with this video is that it presents a false dichotomy. 

It reflects the intellectal laziness of people. 

People tend to divide everything to black and white and not care for the vast gray area. 

In this video, one group/side was labelled evil, while the other group was labelled as righteous. However, these aren't the only two options available. 

Perhaps both group are deviants. Or perhaps each group is correct on some issues and incorrect on some other issues. 

At the end of the day, it is up to each individual to study the ahadith of Ahlul Bayt (as), distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable ahadith, then determine what Ahlul Bayt (as) have taught us. 

As much I liked this video for the information that it provided, I disliked it for simplifying the issue and paiting a false dischotomy. It only perpetuates the intellectual laziness of the Umma. 

Any call for fitna causing shia vs shia is a deviant call.

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20 hours ago, Intellectual Resistance said:

I agreed with you about one aspect of this in my previous post, but i have to disagree with you that the chants do more harm than Tatbir. There is not a shadow of doubt Tatbir does significant more harm. Let us put aside the image problem also, one is a legitimate chant that might not be the best thing to say as it gets twisted, but still it is in line with Islam, whereas we argue Tatbir goes against much of what Islam stands for.Obviously i don't want to turn this thread into one about Tatbir.

While you theorize this, I can 100% confirm that in my 20 years of living in the US, only 1 person has asked me about tatbir and over 20 have asked me about the "Death to America" chants.

20 hours ago, Mohamed1993 said:

Man, where do you begin? Ammar is somehow linked to the Iraq war in this video and that's used to tarnish his reputation, but you know who else supported that war? Iran. Iran worked with the US on Afghanistan to overthrow the Taliban, and if you listen to this guy's videos on the Iran protests, he says 9/11 was a false-flag, which would make the invasion of Afghanistan that Iran worked with the US on even more illegal than it was (it was still illegal btw, because there were diplomatic alternatives that weren't exhausted and the security council never authorised the war). So, his argument falls apart because using the logic he uses, it would make Iran a tool of the CIA and MI6 too (which it obviously isn't). As muslims in the West, we need to understand that yes the UK/US governments are tyrannical in many ways, but we can't just sit and complain that won't change anything, we need to engage politically in every which way we can. I'll give you an example of my own case, I contacted my state senator to support a resolution which would end US involvement in Yemen and end military aid to Saudi because of the war in Yemen, I didn't expect a response, but not only did he respond, he voted for the resolution which unfortunately was blocked today because too many republican senators voted no. He even stated many constituents had expressed similar concerns. Politics is tough, and you don't end up getting the results you need but I firmly believe if we want to fight for causes that we deem important in the West, we need to be involved politically, develop a relationship with your senator, talk to them on issues, not just Middle East issues but also domestic issues, make your voice heard. You won't always get what you want but political engagement can enable you to build groups, put more pressure and attempt to sway opinion. Also, be sure to have discussions on issues, share stuff on social media, use twitter, get the word out to people, many will make the effort to support you if they know the truth and that'll only aid your cause. We can sit in mosques, say death to America and stuff, but what's that going to change? I think SAN recognises this too. I can understand why Iranians use it given their history, but we live in the West not in Iran, so our approach has to be different. There have been cases in history where political pressure has forced change like with the civil rights movement for example. It wasn't easy, it took years and years of struggle but it paid off. I think we have a few Shiite lobby groups in the US, but I think their focus is exclusively on gulf states and Pakistan. If any of you know any other groups apart from ShiaPAC, let me know because I've been looking up different groups with no real luck. 

Agreed. Ammar had become politically active in the US. I think there is another PAC called UMMAH or something. That is the one he was associated with.

15 hours ago, IbnSina said:

If they wish to know what it means, it is easy to find out. If they wish to make assumptions, even if there is a answer, it wont matter. This does not mean that denouncing oppressors, putting historical perspective and having clear basira regarding todays world/politics should be stopped.

Or should we stop being muslims because they think muslims hate them?

You entire statement is predicated on "If they wish to know what it means...". All they see on TV is some foreign country hates us. Very few people dig into why.

15 hours ago, IbnSina said:

Furthermore to compare tatbir to this slogan is really absurd in my opinion. Tatbir has no basis in islam, opposing yazeeds(la) in a clear matter does. Especially in this day and age were media twists everything, it is even more important, for our own youths at least, to be very clear.

Tatbir and "Death to America" were mentioned in the video. With regards to tatbir, they even mentioned how negative it portrays us. So my argument is simple. If we are stop everything that makes us looks bad, then let's stop with the chants first. And as I told IR, I can 100% confirm that in my 20 years of living in the US, only 1 person has asked me about tatbir and over 20 have asked me about the "Death to America" chants.

15 hours ago, IbnSina said:

Come one brother, is it really wise to use this kind of rhetoric?

This is the kind of rhetoric that will cause a shia-shia split. Instead of making these kind of extreme exaggeration regarding what WF followers think of shias who do not follow WF, why dont you ask the leader of WF what they think?

And it is not relevant what that one indo-pak shia WF follower told you in a discussion you had with him in your imam bargah, its better to go to the source and find out the truth of the matter if you have the opportunity and in this case you do.

To say or even hint at that WF followers might even consider non WF followers non shias is a GRAVE exaggeration that only causes hatred and fitna, dont be like that brother. 

I have nothing but respect for Ayatollah Khamenei. I was talking about the Islamic Pulse folks. I have dealt with some of them. That's all.

Lumping SAN in the same group as Shirazi, Al-Habib is ample evidence brother...

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BTW, there is nothing new here.

It has always been British policy to divide and conquer. So they have created these fake mullahs to divide us. I firmly believe as long as we stay true to our marajae and our azadari, they will never be able to divide us.

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Ammar is not pro Tatbir and has spoken against it if I am correct. Hi is not a Shirazi and is a Sistani if I am correct again or now probably does tabeed.

The Islamic Pulse people do not call non WF shias an non shias. 

Wilayat e Faqih is not just a theory anymore, it is being implemented in IRI.  It is our natural progression from a Marja to ruling a state. People will take time to understand this and that is fine. Not everyone is at the same level of understanding.

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3 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

Ammar had become politically active in the US. I think there is another PAC called UMMAH or something. That is the one he was associated with.

Ammar Nakashwani even met Imran Khan, so yeah he does have a vision and therefore is trying to be politically active.

Also, in a lot of his lectures he encourages the youth to persue a degree in politics.

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

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1 hour ago, Mohamed1993 said:

It makes perfect sense tbh, how else do you change things? Burn flags and yell death to UK/US yet continue to live there? That won't lead you anywhere. If you're an Iranian living in Iran it's a diff story, but if you're a Shia in Britain or America, those places are your home, you should work to change them. 

Exactly. At least in the US, there is no policy that can't be influenced via politics by lobbying. And Ammar was very active.

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On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 3:15 AM, shiaman14 said:

Salaam.

As someone who knows Ammar personally, I think he was mis-characterized in the video. He has always said that there is a difference between abusing someone and re-telling history. Abu Bakr did in fact have his henchmen go out and kill people who refused to pay zakat. Ammar did not curse or swear at them - he re-told the story.

Secondly, the concept of wali-e-faqih is a theory because not all marajae subscribe to it in Iran and Iraq. There is a famous video of Ayatollah Basheer Al-Najafi saying he is wali-e-faqih as well.

I would definitely not characterize Ammar as being similar to Yassir Al-Habib, Allahyari, Tawhidi and Shirazi.

Allah is best judge. 

But when me too came across the lectures of Ammar Nakashwani, I suspected him .

His presentation and core aim of  lectures gives feeling that he intends to hurt others. Now weather he does it deliberately or just otherwise it happens. Allah knows best . 

I feel his lectures are not serving the true shia islam rather it has negative effect and negative image. 

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Bismshe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum 

When 9/11 happened the number one book purchased after the attacks was the Holy Quran.  People were curious to know what was inside the book of what the terrorists professed they were following Islam.  People who read and understood some converted, some knew they were doing it based on a political cause, and others remained bigoted and hateful.  

As for Iran, if Iranians want to continue with their slogan, they have every right to.  They know their history and they do not want imperialists to force them to follow a certain political line.  If Americans want to stay ignorant and not bother finding out why Iranians chant marg bar, that's not the Iranians problem.  Libraries exist and so does the internet.  If you want to know ask and stop crying the "why do they hate us" line.  You don't want to read subscribe on YouTube The Real News Network

@Sumerian wanted to share with you these two videos below, not about the topic I'm discussing.  Since you opened a thread about bin salman visiting Iraq.

 

 Let them continue watching Hollywood movies from the very beginning of the Revolution where they portrayed them as barbarians with the movie  "Not without My Daughter" and other junk films to persuade them as Iranians are evil.  

List of anti-Iranian movies.

http://www.imdb.com/list/ls000052578/

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah 

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2 hours ago, Sirius_Bright said:

These guys criticized Sayed Ammar Nakhshawani because he touched on sensitive feelings of their 'brothers in Islam' and called terrorists, a terrorist but 'Marg bar Amrika' (I know what it means) is fine because Amrika is Iran's enemy. Enemies of Iran > Enemies of Ahlulbait (ams) ?

How these guys criticize those not in favour of shia-sunni unity but themselves makes such videos to fracture shia-shia unity.

Here is the thing. When Imam Ali defeated Ayesha in the battle of Jamal, what did he do? He had the chance to chop off her head, but did he do that? 

What Iran are doing right now is simply following the path of Imam Ali when it comes to shia-sunni unity and looking at the wider picture. I am just as furious as you are about the injustices that the ahlul bayt faced, but Imam Ali showed us the path to follow. If we consider him our leader, surely we should be following the same path

When it comes to intra-shia unity, most of the abuse has been coming from the side opposed to Iran. Have you heard what Mujtaba Shirazi, Yasir Habib & Tawhidi are saying about the leadership? On the other hand, Sadeq Shirazi is even allowed to preach in Iran. So which side is really pro unity?

Edited by shiasoldier786

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1 hour ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

@Ashvazdanghe @IbnSina @shiasoldier786

Not only are they really general but "marg bar" doesn't translate in English, the closest thing to it is "Death to". 

Again,  most Americans don't know history well and all they see is a bunch of angry people in some third world country screaming death to their homes, friends and family.

It's not mind-blowing, it makes from their perspective, what's mind-blowing is Ibn Sina thinking that the average American would know what "marg bar amerika" means or bother to read Iranian history like shiasoldier suggested.  

First they'll ask that Iranians stop saying 'marg bar amerika'. Than they ll say Iran should stop developing its missiles. Than they ll ask Iran to stop helping the oppressed in the world. So where exactly do you draw the line? 

You think if Iranians stop the slogan the media will change its portrayal of Iran as the enemy. They will simply move on the next thing. 'Why are Iranians deveoping ICBM's'? 'Why are they supporting Hezbollah'? We can never please these people, and we all know it.

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3 hours ago, Laayla said:

Bismshe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum 

When 9/11 happened the number one book purchased after the attacks was the Holy Quran.  People were curious to know what was inside the book of what the terrorists professed they were following Islam.  People who read and understood some converted, some knew they were doing it based on a political cause, and others remained bigoted and hateful.  

As for Iran, if Iranians want to continue with their slogan, they have every right to.  They know their history and they do not want imperialists to force them to follow a certain political line.  If Americans want to stay ignorant and not bother finding out why Iranians chant marg bar, that's not the Iranians problem.  Libraries exist and so does the internet.  If you want to know ask and stop crying the "why do they hate us" line.  You don't want to read subscribe on YouTube The Real News Network

 Let them continue watching Hollywood movies from the very beginning of the Revolution where they portrayed them as barbarians with the movie  "Not without My Daughter" and other junk films to persuade them as Iranians are evil.  

List of anti-Iranian movies.

http://www.imdb.com/list/ls000052578/

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah 

Salaam alai kum,

Absolutely Iran has the right to their slogan or any slogan but at the same time, let's not act surprised that the same slogan is used negatively across America.

And there is plenty of ignorance on both sides. One such example is of the friends we made on our trip to Iran who were surprised that my wife can go to the supermarket by herself during the day or night and not get harassed, molested, etc.

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1 hour ago, shiasoldier786 said:

First they'll ask that Iranians stop saying 'marg bar amerika'. Than they ll say Iran should stop developing its missiles. Than they ll ask Iran to stop helping the oppressed in the world. So where exactly do you draw the line? 

You think if Iranians stop the slogan the media will change its portrayal of Iran as the enemy. They will simply move on the next thing. 'Why are Iranians deveoping ICBM's'? 'Why are they supporting Hezbollah'? We can never please these people, and we all know it.

If the average American  bothered to read, they would know the answer. I am not saying Iran should stop the slogans but "marg bar Amerika" is definitely worsening the situation. Why be surprised? Our education has been weakening and dumbed down the past 40  years.

 Iran shouldn't draw lines but understand the American people and adjust in such a way doesn't cause misunderstanding. If talking to ignorant, you would adjust your language, so you  can be understood clearly But arguing with ignorant people is a losing game,  as Ali (as) said. 

I agree with @shiaman14 there is a lot of ignorance on both sides.

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On 21/03/2018 at 10:17 PM, shiaman14 said:

While you theorize this, I can 100% confirm that in my 20 years of living in the US, only 1 person has asked me about tatbir and over 20 have asked me about the "Death to America" chants.

 

:salam:

I doubt any Muslim would question you about the anti USA chants, but I know the answer when it would come to tatbir.

Which unity is the priority ? Unity amongst Muslims -which according to the holy Qur'an are all brothers- or unity with the rest of the world ?

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4 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

It's not mind-blowing, it makes from their perspective, what's mind-blowing is Ibn Sina thinking that the average American would know what "marg bar amerika" means or bother to read Iranian history like shiasoldier suggested.

Yeah i guess its mind blowing to expect american people not to be ignorant.

When it comes to the right and wrong of this slogan, I put my trust in learnt scholars before I put my trust in non scholars.

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