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As salamu aleikoum,

Although the Qur'an has absolutly no issue with a round earth rotating around the sun, I found several weird hadiths from Sunni sources (the narrator is Abu Dharr) which seem to claim that it is the sun which is rotating, rotating around a flat earth:

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This hadîth is found in Sahîh al-Bukhârî (3199, 7424). Its text, as related by Abû Dharr al-Ghifârî, is as follows:

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said to me: “O Abû Dharr! Do you know where the Sun goes when it sets?”

I said: “Allah and His Messenger know best.”

He said: “
It goes until it prostrates beneath the Throne. Then it seeks permission and permission is granted to it. Soon it will prostrate and it will not be accepted from it, and seek permission and will not be granted permission. It will be said to it: ‘Go back where you came from.’ Then it will rise from its setting place. This is Allah’s statement: ‘And the Sun runs on to its place of settlement. That is the determination of the Mighty the Knowing. [Sûrah YâSîn: 38]’.”

It is also found in Sahîh Muslim (159,205). Its text, as related by Abû Dharr al-Ghifârî, is as follows:

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said one day: “Do you know where the Sun goes when it sets?”

They said: “Allah and His Messenger know best.”

He said: “It goes until it arrives at its place of settlement beneath the Throne. Then it falls down in prostration and remains like that until it is said to it: ‘Arise! Go back from whence you came.’ Then it goes back and rises from its place of rising. Then it goes until it arrives at its place of settlement beneath the Throne. Then it falls down in prostration and remains like that until it is said to it: ‘Arise! Go back from whence you came.’ Then it goes back and rises from its place of rising. Then it goes without people finding anything wrong with it until it arrives at that place of settlement it has beneath the throne. Then it will be told: ‘Arise! Enter upon the morning rising from your setting place’.”

Then Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him) said: “Do you know when that will be? It will be when ‘its faith will not avail a soul which had not believed before or earned some good from its faith. [Sûrah al-An`âm: 157]’.”

The hadîth is also found in Sahîh al-Bukhârî in a highly abridged form (4803, 7433). Its text reads:

I asked the Prophet (peace be upon him) about Allah’s statement: “And the Sun runs on to its place of settlement... [Sûrah YâSîn: 38]”.

He said: “Its place of settlement is beneath the throne (of Allah Almighty).”

I checked the references and they are correct, although I did not find such an hadith in Sahih Muslim 205.

According to some people, there is an hadith which says the earth is round:

I did not find the reference though. Is this a fabricated hadith or does it really exist? You can find everywhere. But according to a website, it is fabricated (https://islamqa.info/en/145202).

According to a shia hadith, the earth is round:

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From the traditions that have come to us through the sinless Imams (a.s.) we can understand that the earth is spherical. One of such tradition from Imam as-Sadiq (a.s.) is given below:
Imam as-Sadiq (a.s.) said:

In a journey, a man became a fellow traveler. He was habituated that he should pray the Evening Prayer in the darkness of the night, and pray the Morning Prayer in the complete darkness of the night (end of night).

But I was opposite to him. I used to pray the Evening Prayer when the sun set and perform the Morning Prayer at dawn break. He requested me to also pray in his manner and explained his act in this way: The sun before rising on our land rises on other places. And when it disappears from our land then too it shines on other places.

I told him: It is our practice that when the Sun disappears from our horizon, the Evening Prayer is prayed, and it is not necessary that we should wait for it to set in other places. And when the dawn breaks, we should pray the Morning Prayer, though the Sun may not have come out in other places. Because it is incumbent upon the people of all the places that they should offer their Prayers according to dawn and sunset of their horizons*

*Wasailush Shia, Vol. I, p. 237

Imam (a.s.) has described this fact in one more tradition:
It is upon you that you should have the foundation of your deeds on your logical East and West.
And all this is said on the basis of the earth being spherical.

There is no reference for the "logical East and West" hadith though. Does someone know the reference? Also, can someone check in Wasailush Shia, Vol.I to see if it's there (maybe here: https://books.rafed.net/view.php?type=c_fbook&b_id=280)? If possible, it would be better to find another book of hadith, since Wasailush Shia is a quite late compilation (17th century, after the heliocentrism theory was already famous I think)?

What do you think about those hadiths? Are they authentic? If they are authentic, how should they be interpreted (I did not read the arabic)? Are they any other hadith talking about the shape of the earth and/or helio-/geocentrism?

Jazak Allah khair.

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If the hadiths is true, then that would be the reality of how the Sun is doing prostration to Allah (swt);

“See you not that whoever is in the heavens and whoever is on the earth, and the sun, and the moon, and the stars, and the mountains, and the trees, and Ad-Dawaabb [moving (living) creatures, beasts], and many of mankind prostrate themselves to Allaah. But there are many (men) on whom the punishment is justified. And whomsoever Allaah disgraces, none can honour him. Verily, Allaah does what He wills” [al-Hajj 22:18] 

“The seven heavens and the earth and all that is therein, glorify Him and there is not a thing but glorifies His Praise. But you understand not their glorification. Truly, He is Ever Forbearing, Oft-Forgiving” [al-Isra’ 17:44] 

Edited by Abu Nur

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Sun rises everyday from one point and sets on the other. Therefore when we keep in mind the sum total of those Easts and Wests, then we should interpret them as the plural of easts and west. And when we keep in mind only the big northern inclination of sun to its last point (beginning of summer) and the big southern inclination's last point (beginning of winter), then we should interpret them as dual form of East and West.

http://www.alhassanain.com/english/show_articles.php?articles_id=1226&link_articles=ethics_and_supplication/ethics_articles/where_are_two_easts_and_two_wests

http://www.erfan.ir/english/50020.html

https://www.al-islam.org/philosophy-islamic-laws-nasir-makarim-shirazi-jafar-subhani/question-36-earth-being-spherical-and

 

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In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful, 

And after that He spread the earth.

بِسْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمنِ الرَّحِيمِ

وَالأرْضَ بَعْدَ ذَلِكَ دَحَاهَا

صَدَق الْلَّه الْعَظِيْم

the word 'دَحَاهَا' or 'دَحَو' in Arabic means: 

'دحا اللهُ الأرضَ بَسَطَها ومَدَّها ووَسَّعَها على هيئة بيضة للسُّكنى والإعمار :- دحا الخبَّازُ العجينةَ ، - { وَالأَرْضَ بَعْدَ ذَلِكَ دَحَاهَا'

'Allah spread the earth; spread it and extended it in the shape of an egg ــ Or, the baker spread (دَحَا) the kneading.' 

the egg of an ostrich is as rounded as the earth. Here it is: 

www-St-Takla-org___Eggs-01.jpg

 

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non english links

The Tafseer Nemooneh in the interpretation of the verse«کلُّ فِی فَلَک یَسْبَحُونَ» (یس/40) has the same probability that the purpose of this same motion of the sun, in terms of our sense or the apparent motion (false and error of vision), will bring that probability along with other probabilities. (See: Makarem Shirazi, Nasser, Same, v 18, p. 386-389)

http://www.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=13920130000597

http://www.islamquest.net/tr/archive/question/fa4232

http://www.islamquest.net/fa/archive/question/fa4232

http://www.askdin.com/showthread.php?t=49863

http://www.askquran.ir/showthread.php?t=31463

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On 01/04/2018 at 4:13 PM, Abu Nur said:

If the hadiths is true, then that would be the reality of how the Sun is doing prostration to Allah (swt);

“See you not that whoever is in the heavens and whoever is on the earth, and the sun, and the moon, and the stars, and the mountains, and the trees, and Ad-Dawaabb [moving (living) creatures, beasts], and many of mankind prostrate themselves to Allaah. But there are many (men) on whom the punishment is justified. And whomsoever Allaah disgraces, none can honour him. Verily, Allaah does what He wills” [al-Hajj 22:18] 

“The seven heavens and the earth and all that is therein, glorify Him and there is not a thing but glorifies His Praise. But you understand not their glorification. Truly, He is Ever Forbearing, Oft-Forgiving” [al-Isra’ 17:44] 

The prostration isn't a issue. As you pointed out, we cannot understand the way the sun prostrates, it is not like a human's prostration, with the head on the ground. 

The issue is rather when the hadith reports Allah swt command to the sun to go back where it came from. If the sun has to go back from where it came from, then it means that the sun is the one which is rotating around the earth. Unless there is another interpretation of course, like the sun going back from the point in the galaxy where it came from and that resulting in the sun rising from the West from Earth's perspective.

On 03/04/2018 at 9:12 AM, Iraqi_Gladiator said:

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful, 

And after that He spread the earth.

بِسْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمنِ الرَّحِيمِ

وَالأرْضَ بَعْدَ ذَلِكَ دَحَاهَا

صَدَق الْلَّه الْعَظِيْم

the word 'دَحَاهَا' or 'دَحَو' in Arabic means: 

'دحا اللهُ الأرضَ بَسَطَها ومَدَّها ووَسَّعَها على هيئة بيضة للسُّكنى والإعمار :- دحا الخبَّازُ العجينةَ ، - { وَالأَرْضَ بَعْدَ ذَلِكَ دَحَاهَا'

'Allah spread the earth; spread it and extended it in the shape of an egg ــ Or, the baker spread (دَحَا) the kneading.' 

the egg of an ostrich is as rounded as the earth. Here it is: 

www-St-Takla-org___Eggs-01.jpg

 

The verb which is used in the verse comes from a root which can indeed also refer to an ostrich egg (or the ostrich preparing its nest, I don't remember). But the verb itself simply means to spread. The reason the same root is used is probably because the ostrich spreads the earth in order to lay its eggs, it prepares the earth. 

This verse therefore likely means that Allah swt prepared the earth for us. Most likely, it refers to the earth one can see and not the globe in its entirety. That's also why the earth is sometimes refered to as a "bed" in the Quran. It means that the earth one can see and on which one lives (not the globe) has been prepared like a "bed". It does not mean that the Earth is flat or anything, as some may claim. 

That's why I say the Qur'an has no problem with the earth being a sphere. In my opinion, it does not mention the shape of the earth, although some verses, like the verse talking about the alternation of the day and the night, might be interpreted as meaning that the Earth is a sphere: http://www.speed-light.info/miracles_of_quran/earth.htm 

Especially the verse talking about God's challenge to jinns and humans to escape the اقطار (aqtar) of the heavens and the earth. The word used means either sides, regions or diamaters. And diameter is used to measure a circle. 

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The issue is rather when the hadith reports Allah swt command to the sun to go back where it came from. If the sun has to go back from where it came from, then it means that the sun is the one which is rotating around the earth. Unless there is another interpretation of course, like the sun going back from the point in the galaxy where it came from and that resulting in the sun rising from the West from Earth's perspective.

 

How did you come to conclusion that it means sun is rotating around the earth based on that Hadith? What I understand is that after setting, Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى make it to return to rise from it setting place.

Edited by Abu Nur

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19 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

How did you come to conclusion that it means sun is rotating around the earth based on that Hadith? What I understand is that after setting, Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى make it to return to rise from it setting place.

Because the hadith is only refering to the movement of the sun. The hadith even makes reference to "And the Sun runs on to its place of settlement. That is the determination of the Mighty the Knowing. [Sûrah YâSîn: 38]". It seems to indicate that the sun is the one which is moving and the earth is stationnary. 

I personnaly interpret the above mentionned verse as meaning that the Sun runs to its term but the hadith, to me at least, seems to go towards geocentrism and to interpret Yasin:38 accordingly. 

But again, maybe there is another interpretation, especially after reading the hadith in arabic.

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52 minutes ago, kashif.h said:

Because the hadith is only refering to the movement of the sun. The hadith even makes reference to "And the Sun runs on to its place of settlement. That is the determination of the Mighty the Knowing. [Sûrah YâSîn: 38]". It seems to indicate that the sun is the one which is moving and the earth is stationnary. 

I personnaly interpret the above mentionned verse as meaning that the Sun runs to its term but the hadith, to me at least, seems to go towards geocentrism and to interpret Yasin:38 accordingly. 

But again, maybe there is another interpretation, especially after reading the hadith in arabic.

The hadith have nothing to do with Geocentrism or Heliocentrism, it tries to give you an understanding of reality that is beyond of what our senses can observe. The movement is not even importance in hadith, and it is described us such because Human see the Sun always rise from east and sets to west, which is truth by itself.

Edited by Abu Nur

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On 07/04/2018 at 1:18 PM, Abu Nur said:

The hadith have nothing to do with Geocentrism or Heliocentrism, it tries to give you an understanding of reality that is beyond of what our senses can observe. The movement is not even importance in hadith, and it is described us such because Human see the Sun always rise from east and sets to west, which is truth by itself.

But there is this part in the hadith: It will be said to it: ‘Go back where you came from.’ Apparently, those are supposed to be Allah's swt words. Which would mean that God orders the sun (not the earth) to move to a certain place. Same thing with in this passage of the other version: Arise! Enter upon the morning rising from your setting place’. Here also, the order is given to the sun, not the earth.

I agree however that

1) it's possible that the Prophet saw just explained it that way to someone from the 7th century. The mission of Prophets are to guide people, not to explain to them the way the world works.

2) or that the words reported were not 100% identical to those mentionned in the hadiths. After all, there are several versions of this hadith, with different wordings. The narrator, with his understanding from the 7th century, may after all not remember the exact words which were used if they did not make sense to him. 

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