Jump to content
Waseem162

Would you befriend a Wahhabi?

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

I was telling a friend.. ignorance is the root of problems with the salafi world... 

he said it isnt ignorance.. it is God withholding guidance.. 

wahhabis are enemies to shia as much as zionists are.. saudi arabia is now another israel.

Edited by kirtc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, kirtc said:

it is God withholding guidance.. 

another comical apparition. Statements as such proclaim the motives of why atheism is so prevelant. That the thiestic God is playing a terrible game with its own creation, but appears like a tyrannical human and as such, the innate nature of mankind, expects a good God, saintly in that matter, however it doesnt seem so, therefore the belief in a creator is based on the premise that tyranny awaits if praise and appellation isnt given.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, monad said:

another comical apparition. Statements as such proclaim the motives of why atheism is so prevelant. That the thiestic God is playing a terrible game with its own creation, but appears like a tyrannical human and as such, the innate nature of mankind, expects a good God, saintly in that matter, however it doesnt seem so, therefore the belief in a creator is based on the premise that tyranny awaits if praise and appellation isnt given.

playing a terrible game?

God withholds guidance from those that dont want it.. the choice ofcourse is in the hands of the soul.. arrogance and fear prevail..

you misunderstood and derailed.. take it easy

Edited by kirtc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, kirtc said:

God withholds guidance from those that dont want it

Reflect upon this scentence of yours. You are practically stating that, If X state Y as being true, and I deny it, it implies it is my fault for my own demise. Considering humans comes in many intellectual forms added with personal motives. That is the dilemma of reality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, monad said:

Reflect upon this scentence of yours. You are practically stating that, If X state Y as being true, and I deny it, it implies it is my fault for my own demise. Considering humans comes in many intellectual forms added with personal motives. That is the dilemma of reality.

Surely those who disbelieve, it being alike to them whether you warn them, or do not warn them, will not believe. 

Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing and there is a covering over their eyes, and there is a great punishment for them. 

And there are some people who say: We believe in Allah and the last day; and they are not at all believers. 

They desire to deceive Allah and those who believe, and they deceive only themselves and they do not perceive. 

There is a disease in their hearts, so Allah added to their disease and they shall have a painful chastisement because they lied. 

And when it is said to them, Do not make mischief in the land, they say: We are but peace-makers. 

Now surely they themselves are the mischief makers, but they do not perceive.

- Quran [2 : 5-12]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Clearly you guys arent thinking about the dilemma. But the verses your used, outlines my point. It is either a forceful belief system or it isnt . Follow the rules or burn. The same ideology is then practiced by many factions through out the earth, be it democrazy, communism or whatever new system is conjured up. The pattern and rules are always the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/19/2018 at 2:45 AM, monad said:

Clearly you guys arent thinking about the dilemma. But the verses your used, outlines my point. It is either a forceful belief system or it isnt . Follow the rules or burn. The same ideology is then practiced by many factions through out the earth, be it democrazy, communism or whatever new system is conjured up. The pattern and rules are always the same.

- The father repeatedly tells his wayward son to mend his ways.

- The son disregards his warning each time.

- After a point of time, the father stops speaking to the son, and leaves him to his fate.

- The son, sometimes later, sadly discovers that his father had a valid point, and that his thoughtless and stubborn rejection  has brought him to his doom.

There were three consequent options for the father-

- To go on repeating himself, till his admonitions and opinions carry no value anymore.

- To endorse the son's waywardness as correct, and compromise with the actually correct course of life.

- To stop sounding like a broken record and emerge with his dignity intact.

Quote

It is either a forceful belief system or it isnt . Follow the rules or burn. The same ideology is then practiced by many factions through out the earth, be it democrazy, communism or whatever new system is conjured up. The pattern and rules are always the same.

Nowadays, any system which is not spinelessly relativist in its outlook runs the risk of being branded a 'forceful' belief system. Lacking a clear criterion of wrong or right itself, and being laden with hegemonic value-judgments that falsify its own original premise, the accusation doesn't really carry much weight for the Muslims, at least not for those ones who actually understand what their God and their religion demands of them.

As for 'following the rules or burning', the people ought to know in advance the belief system that they're signing up for. If the 'rules' don't appeal to them, they are at liberty to not sign up.

On 3/18/2018 at 10:27 PM, monad said:

another comical apparition. Statements as such proclaim the motives of why atheism is so prevelant. That the thiestic God is playing a terrible game with its own creation, but appears like a tyrannical human and as such, the innate nature of mankind, expects a good God, saintly in that matter, however it doesnt seem so, therefore the belief in a creator is based on the premise that tyranny awaits if praise and appellation isnt given.

Not actually. The comical argument of the atheists results from a normalization of stubborn rejection, and in the same breath,the desire to be given the benefit of doubt and escape from the consequences of the same rejection- a strange cocktail of overconfidence and under-confidence, both at once. It has already been made clear in the aforementioned verses that the 'withholding of guidance' follows the establishment of the conviction that  the individual concerned cannot be reasoned with any further. There's the element of responsibility for one's actions and free-will, rather than tyranny or high-handedness in the argument.

The 'follow the rules or burn' principle need not necessarily be seen in the framework of power-dynamics. We encounter it in our day to day lives. Drinking and driving? Meet with an accident. Excessive drinking? Be prepared for cancer/cirrhosis. Not studying? Fail the exams. Professional negligence? Get fired from your job. Neglecting health/hygiene? Fall sick. Administering an overdose of a drug to yourself? Die. Not following traffic rules? Meet with an accident.

The crucial line is, we are responsible for our actions at the end of the day. The principle is not necessarily evil.

I find this whole personalized/customized religion/ideology thing quite amusing. It normalizes stubbornness and egotism, and panders on to people's egos, giving them the hollow satisfaction of thinking that they possess a better understanding of their belief system than their creator, or in case of secular ideologies, the founding theorist(s), and also furnishing them with an opportunity to play the holy lamb and make martyrs out of themselves when they encounter opposition. Nonetheless, it is only to be expected in these times of consumer culture underwritten by 'unbound individual consciences', when individuals presume themselves to be the best judges and 'buy' whatever appeals to them.

When a mujtahid infers and reaches a correct decision, he is given a reward. When he infers and reaches the incorrect decision, he is still given half the reward for his sincerity and effort, but even he knows that there are red lines that he ought not to transgress, not for fear of punishment, but because him challenging them and trying to prove them wrong will falsify his claims of adhering to the belief system with which he associates, since he admittedly no longer identifies with those principles he is critiquing, and by extension, the belief system based on those principles, and hence be a logical absurdity. The point being, if I doubt the rule that 'labor creates value', or that matter is the ultimate reality upon which the ideational aspects of civilization are contingent, I doubt whether I would still remain within the fold of Marxism, or 'burn'(read expelled from the fold).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't dealt with any Wahhabi's in person yet, to my knowledge, so I cannot say until I experience it myself. I would like to think aside from religious differences, there's possibility of friendship. The Prophet (s) had good manners and respect towards others in general. I would rather try not to judge someone, before I know them. Shah was fine and I got on well with him and he was Wahhabi. The Muslims I have had the most problems with so far are culturally driven Muslims, who look down upon me because I'm a different nationality and a revert.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not generally, no. Maybe in an exceptional case. Wahhabis tend to be annoying on a personal level, and uninteresting. And one of the things I love talking about most -- `ilmu-l kalam -- they abhor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/16/2018 at 4:55 AM, Waseem162 said:

Salamun Alykum. I just had this question in my mind.

Keeping Islamic Ethics in mind, Would you like to befriend a Wahhabi just to establish a normalizing relationship with him? It may happen that his misconceptions about Shiism and Shias get cleared when he knows you better..?

What are your views on this?

PS : I am talking about a normal Wahhabi and not a Takfiri.

Yeah, it would be fun to have an Islamic conversation with them. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

Yeah, it would be fun to have an Islamic conversation with them. 

A single conversation is not a friendship. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a salafi friend, he was quite nice, I can't say he had any anti-shia feelings or if he did, he never displayed them openly. He was my roommate in university, he told me that after living with me, he realised the differences between us are not major, people just like to hate each other for no reason. At times, I felt he wasn't very religious though, for one I hardly saw him pray and then, as is common practice in the West for muslims to have a water can in the bathroom for washing, it didn't appear that he used one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a very good friend who comes from a very pro wahaabi family. We have never discussed religious issues but she is a very kind and considerate person overall. I have long time co-workers with strong ties to KSA. I don't have a problem being friends with wahaabis as long as they respect my faith. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×