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In the Name of God بسم الله
Mohammed-Mehdi

Climate change: causes, consequences and solutions

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Somewhere on SC a couple years back, l posted that Germany was disappointed in the Wind Farms out in the Baltic, not producing as much as 'predicted'.

Now, most of these 30,000 land based Wind-Eye-Sores will be replaced with larger models. :confused:"Uhhhh, lf the littler ones weren't efficient enough, how does a larger one be more efficient?"

Recycling the blades are a real problem, too.

https://www.dw.com/en/how-to-recycle-windturbines/av-44799544 

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39 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

The highest record temperature in Death Valley was record 134 degrees Fahrenheit on 10 July 1913.

So Algeria is another climate hoax.  Libya once had a known temperature near 130.

According to one teacher in the past climate change has been happening since " forever", way before humanity. If you zoom in, the changes may seem sudden and extreme.
But
Are you aware of what humans are doing on earth with pollution, energy, resources (etc.) ? How could these massive operations and activities ,24/7 for years now not have a impact on our climate, and other relevant subjects ? Look at the world population as well, with its demand, production, technology and history while it has been said that in next decades, the poorest people will get a smaller group, so I imagine and understood, the group with mobiles, tv's will get bigger ( as a % of all " classes " ). (saw this report on economic situation change of the world population on PressTV if not mistaken)

 

Edited by Mohammed-Mehdi

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58 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

How?

The terms are pretty much used interchangeably, but "Global Warming" seems to primarily refer to temperature trends since industrialization, while "Climate Change" is more general and includes average temperature increases, changes in wind and ocean current patterns, increase in frequency and severity of storm events and droughts, changes to wildlife migration, and many other things related to climate. 

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5 hours ago, notme said:

The terms are pretty much used interchangeably, but . . .

As l remember, "climate change" came into vogue when "global warming" was not selling to the public after record, harsh Winters.

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https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2018/07/31/569832/Noam-Chomsky-Israeli-intervention-US-presidential-election

Chomsky accuses Israel of ‘brazenly’ meddling in US elections
____________________________________

 


Global warming is what matters

The 89-year-old linguist also accused much of the US media of concentrating on “marginal” stories and ignoring issues such as the “existential threat” of climate change.

“Of all Trump’s policies, the one that is the most dangerous and destructive, in fact poses an existential threat, is his policies on climate change, on global warming,” Chomsky said.

“That’s really destructive. And we’re facing an imminent threat, not far removed, of enormous damage. The effects are already visible but nothing like what’s going to come,” he noted.

Chomsky further added that “these are the kinds of issues that should be under discussion. Instead…here is a focus on what I believe are marginalia.”

In 2015, countries signing the Paris Climate Accord set a goal of limiting a rise in average world surface temperatures to “well below” 2C (3.6F) and “pursuing efforts” to limit rising temperatures to 1.5C (2.7F).

Trump has vowed to pull out of the accord, which would make his country the only one to do so.

The US is the second largest emitter of carbon dioxide in the world and its withdrawal from the Paris agreement would be a blow to the accord, which was signed by nearly 200 countries in December 2015 to lower emissions.

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Possible severe economic consequences:

https://pilotonline.com/news/military/local/article_f2bc6da2-975a-11e8-8119-4368a84d4813.html

Norfolk Naval Base is huge. Without it, the local economy all the way up to Williamsburg would be trashed. The Department of Defense wants to shut down bases, but hasn't gotten Congressional authorization. Unless the surrounding communities take action to mitigate impending climate inflicted damage, this one is at the top of the closure list. 

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16 hours ago, notme said:

Possible severe economic consequences:

https://pilotonline.com/news/military/local/article_f2bc6da2-975a-11e8-8119-4368a84d4813.html

Norfolk Naval Base is huge. Without it, the local economy all the way up to Williamsburg would be trashed. The Department of Defense wants to shut down bases, but hasn't gotten Congressional authorization. Unless the surrounding communities take action to mitigate impending climate inflicted damage, this one is at the top of the closure list. 

l passingly thought, that since regional development is also a factor, then why not require this new development to water itself with de-sal ?

That way no extra water is pumped out of the ground.

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On 7/30/2018 at 4:06 PM, Mohammed-Mehdi said:

the poorest people will get a smaller group

in % out of all people this group/class will get a lower % out of 100. 

Dear brother @hasanhh I saw you disagreed with  my previous comment. I asked because I am interested and want to understand you(r view). If you like to, please respond to that comment. Thanks anyway !

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8 hours ago, Mohammed-Mehdi said:



Dear brother @hasanhh I saw you disagreed with  my previous comment. I asked because I am interested and want to understand you(r view). If you like to, please respond to that comment. Thanks anyway !

I disagree with the premise that humans are the principle driver of climatic shift.

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16 hours ago, hasanhh said:

 I disagree with the premise that humans are the principle driver of climatic shift.

if the sentence would be changed to, " of this climatic shift " , you would still stand behind that, correct ?


If yes, then what is a reason or are some reasons for this disagreement ? Also if you could involve what I said about immense human activities in your answer , that would be great.

 

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Correlation between human burning activity and temperature shift upward has been proven. Causation is predicted by theoretical models, but can not be proven by on-the-ground data, therefore people who chose to doubt can doubt.

However, every single thing which has been advocated as a way to reduce human impact on climate is also good for the environment in other ways and good for humanity. Therefore, even if you are skeptical of the results of the models, it makes sense to act as if climate change has been caused by human hydrocarbon consuming activity and to take steps to correct it, as much as possible. 

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7 hours ago, Mohammed-Mehdi said:

1] if the sentence would be changed to, " of this climatic shift " , you would still stand behind that, correct ?


2] lf yes, then what is a reason or are some reasons for this disagreement ? Also if you could involve what I said about immense human activities in your answer , that would be great.

 

Yes to 1]

Just like in grade school 60+ years ago, climate is always slowly changing. Greenland was Green a millennium ago.

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35 minutes ago, Mohammed-Mehdi said:

I said it before , climate is always changing.

But if you say the human influenced latests climate change, is not human influenced, or that claim is false, then you have to give us some proof.

You have contradicted yourself.

You wrote: "always changing" also says before humans; then write it-is/it-is-not changed without humans is not consistent.

The ancient Greek Strabo is the first known to write that Man is a geographic factor. Yet this cannot be extrapolated to global climate.

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On 8/18/2018 at 3:09 PM, hasanhh said:

 The ancient Greek Strabo is the first known to write that Man is a geographic factor. Yet this cannot be extrapolated to global climate.

Why not?

And when you say this, should I understand this as to global climate and it's change or about influencing it? or neither? (my question here might be not clear, sorry)
 

 

On 8/18/2018 at 3:09 PM, hasanhh said:

You have contradicted yourself.

 You wrote: "always changing" also says before humans; then write it-is/it-is-not changed without humans is not consistent.

 

If I said that it is not changed without humans , then this was a mistake and take it back.

_____________________________________________________________________________________
Does the following contradict? 
1. Climate has been changing throughout the history of the earth.


(( separate allow me to say: If you zoom out and look at the " chart ", you see it as fluid line something like this: ( and then ) and then ( and then ) (etc.) but then the ( and ) are horizontal. and it x and y are time and temperature. But if you zoom in you will see it is not so fluid, for example in a period of 1000 years. then the changes look much more sudden and people might hype and belief that hey! look, a sudden change in the statistics, so climate change by humans is happening. So I know this is not right and not claiming this logic.))

2. People with their major projects and " developments " and actions. from the factories, and energy uses and production and use of resources and change of state of materials to even the sheep eating the green in for example parts of Africa and Asia leading to more desertification, people are doing these things for some time now and let's say: this has a influence on the climate and/or changes the climate.

 

Why do these two contradict ? Thus, one their is a natural change and two also man with their actions and defects have a influence on climate change or even: are in fact changing the climate (as well. like an additional one)

 

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11 hours ago, Mohammed-Mehdi said:

2. People with their major projects and " developments " and actions. from the factories, and energy uses and production and use of resources and change of state of materials to even the sheep eating the green in for example parts of Africa and Asia leading to more desertification, people are doing these things for some time now and let's say: this has a influence on the climate and/or changes the climate.

Thermodynamic near-impossibilities is one reason "global warming" is cause by Man.

Example: ln 1991-1992 it took two major volcanic eruptions in addition to those already normally spewing ash to lower global temperatures 0.1 degrees C. Pinatubo was one of them.

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Hurricane FLORENCE  Sept2018

Here is an opinion piece whose them is "it's the weather":

 

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/09/14/hurricane-florence-climate-change-global-warming-weather-greenhouse-flood-column/1289272002/ 

Edited by hasanhh

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Is anyone still denying that climate change really is happening right now and there's nothing we can do to stop it? Brace yourselves - it's going to be a bumpy ride. Either we adapt, or we go extinct. 

https://orbitermag.com/a-new-kind-of-nature-california-wildfires-climate-change/

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Mankind has transformed this planet in countless ways. Mass deforestation, extensive pollution (including CO2 emissions which of course are green house gases), we've rendered countless species extinct transforming ecosystems, we've depleted resources such as lakes and streams worldwide and continue to pump down and deplete large scale aquifers, mass expanse of urban environments. With pollution, we've also altered the acidity of countless bodies of water, and killed off literally countless aquatic species and have transformed their ecosystems.

And somehow there are people who think that mankind has no role in climate change? We are transforming the planet.

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@iCenozoic  l disagreed because while a significant amount of poisoning and sewerification of the planet has been tackled, in the last fifty years we have choked Earth with plastic --something l see as more dangerous.  Natural salts and bacteria can clarify the first two, but not the third.

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Salam Alaykoom

I'm usually not one to voice my own opinion on matters but i'll say this: man-induced climate change is a hoax. There's a whole agenda to it: it mainly revolves around guilt (which is why it's so important to insist it's man-made), rousing people to fight against an imaginary phenomenon, spoiling innumerable amounts of ressources, while similar changes of such scales (and of sometimes even wilder variances) have been observed not so long ago (in the 1910s). All the data the "experts" in such fields show are of a very limited time frame, while earlier data is readily and reliably available and completely deconstructs their claims. The fact that some even falsified and faked their results towards supporting climate change tells tales of their own.

You can do the research yourself and compile meteorologic data from the past 100 years or so and you wouldn't notice a difference in the way the mean evolves over time. In fact here's actual data for you:

 

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Continued from last post (because i clicked on the wrong button)

unknown.png

 

This graph (from climate4you.com) shows that in the past 140~ years or so, the amount the average monthly temperature in the surface moved the most is around 1940 by... MINUS 0.18 degrees celsius.

It also shows you why data on climate change never includes the earlier decades of the past century: just like there is local variance in differences of temperature across years, there also is a local variance in the very same averages across centuries. That's just part of the natural and well-observed changes that occur spontaneously on Earth.

I'm not even going to mention the innumerable climate change related frauds that happened since this sleight of hand that is called man-made climate change was brought to public (the most scandalous of them being a 314 million dollar carbon tax fraud orchestrated by zionists) nor the fact that the biggest man-made generator of pollution and greenhouse gases, which is WAR, not only goes unchecked by the vast majority of green parties but is wholeheartedly supported and acclaimed by them, as if they were unaware of the dramatic effects it might have on the climate. If you doubt this, go and ask your local green party or organization what they think about the various wars in the Middle-East.

40 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

in the last fifty years we have choked Earth with plastic

This is however a very valid cause for concern, which is in complete disregard for the environment and will prove to be a massive headache to deal with in the future. Again, you'll sooner witness people horrified by the idea of getting warmer winters and milder summers than being drowned in tons of disgusting plastic waste.

Wa Salam.

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On 11/17/2018 at 7:48 PM, hasanhh said:

@iCenozoic  l disagreed because while a significant amount of poisoning and sewerification of the planet has been tackled, in the last fifty years we have choked Earth with plastic --something l see as more dangerous.  Natural salts and bacteria can clarify the first two, but not the third.

A decent amount of poisoning and sewerfication has been tackled?

I can't go down the street without running into a Superfund site or a county wide oil plume.

We are doing better than we were 50 years ago as far as raising awareness. But we have a long way to go before I'd consider our contamination "tackled". 

A major contaminant in the environmental world is tce, which is not tackled by natural bacterias and salts. And even oil releases which do naturally degrade are so prevelant that releases number in the thousands in each and every developed state. We are going to be dealing with our messes for decades to come.

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Also, natural salts aren't going to replenish depleted aquifers. Natural salts won't bring thousands of species back from extinction, nor will natural salts bring back wrecked forests and jungles.

I've never heard of anyone sprinkling a little salt in some acid mine drainage to make it go away. Or throwing salt into the air to absorb toxic vapors above contaminant plumes.

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Technical Summary

This is a good read. Notice the use of "convoluted" to describe difficulties in analyzing gas bubbles in ice, ice cores and snowpack(pre-ice).

lf you can draw pictures and graphs in your head while you read this paper is worth the time.

http://www.pnas.org/content/94/16/8343

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Has anyone ever wondered why "The Fertile Crescent", the origin of agriculture and modern civilization, is a dry, lifeless desert?  It's because humans changed it.  The land from Greece to Afghanistan used to be richly forested.  Forests were cleared for construction and agriculture.  Soils were irrigated and nutrients washed away.  Salts were left behind as the water evaporated.  Desertification was caused by civilization.  

How much more infeasible is it that humans, who now occupy the entire earth in some form of "civilization" are destroying the productivity and climate of the entire earth?  It has been happening for 13 thousand years.  What makes climate change deniers think it has stopped now?

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