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Pilgrim

Walking Between Worlds

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With respect, Greetings.

Firstly, I would say hello to you, and ask your forgiveness and understanding, should I ask foolish or impertinent questions.  Please feel free to correct me, in manner or technique, as required.

I come before you, to ask for direction, and clarity.

First, if I may, I would describe who I am, and why I've come before you.  I am Australian, and have lived in both Australia, and Great Britain.  Raised Christian.  One must admit to not being devout in that observance of Christianity though, and I considered myself atheist for some time.  This changed, because I never stopped questioning the narrative you are aware is presented, and found it... disquieting.

Over the last decade, I have become extremely disillusioned with our society.  We once were a Christian culture, but now, *appear* atheist.  What presents itself though as atheist, which in itself is bad enough, in fact is (I believe) a shield for Satanic forces.  I find myself opposed to this.  But I had learned much in my time wandering, and could no longer call myself 'Anglican'.  All Christian sects have been subverted.  With intention of observing the commandments as they had been given me, I felt that to observe the Sabbath, I had to do so in the Jewish manner, for I was aware that the use of Sunday as a Holy Day was subversion.  There are no answers within the Christian churches I've spoken with that even seem to a show a memory of why they do this.  As such, I had become an apostate Christian, selecting for myself those instructions I considered devout, appropriate and wholesome.

I do this because I wish to see a change within my, our society.  A return to God is an absolute must, for this, the people who I considered mine, do not consider me theirs, nor do they consider anyone so.  I have held this conviction for some time now.

I briefly pondered conversion to Russian (Serbian) Orthodox, considering it to be 'less corrupt' than Western Protestantism, and considerably more sound than the entirely corrupt Catholic church.  Seeing though that they, too, did not observe the Sabbath as instructed gave me pause.

I had briefly considered Islam.  Having spent time in Britain, I had come to know Muslims of a variety of characters.  This made me (I hope) less prejudiced than most Australians seem to be.  But... I admit, I felt that this was being dishonest to who I was (despite knowing that Muslim means 'to prostrate before God', and that therefore, I was already in some measure a Muslim).  

I have been back in Australia seven years.  In the last two years, I had the chance to converse with a Sunni Jordanian.  He and I enjoyed discourse.  I affirmed being Christian to him, and he and I both were aware how Western governments are agitating for war, and division.  Understanding that, it was strange to admit that I could well engage with him and his brethren as a New Crusader in the war being fomented. 

I wish to stand for God, against those who would elevate themselves to such a position.

Searching for understanding on the Sabbath led me to your site.   I would thank your member, SpIzo, for a very informative post that provided me with all the answers I required on that matter.

Until now, one had never understood the reason for the schism between Shia and Sunni.  I was aware of the primary difference (elected leaders, versus a Leader related to the Prophet) but why one should choose one over the other, I did not know.  Until I see that it was due to one converted Jew who it would appear led the Sunni astray.  This is not an uncommon tale...

I have long held respect for Iran.  Aware of it's long and treasured history, it's honesty in word, and the injustices committed against it since 1953 which we as Westerners must dig to discover.

And this brings me to a place where I wish to know more.  Australia does not appear to have a strong Shia community.  I will admit, it is hard to find trust in my heart for the Sunni.  This may well be due to the incessant propaganda we are subjected to, but I am aware of the Wahabis, how the British had a hand in their formulation, and how it appears to be their hand behind many of the actions which are used to defame Islam in this day.

Which finally brings me to my questions.

What is the best way to learn more at this time?
Where and how would someone observe Shia Islam in country Australia?
Does being a baptized Christian have any impact?

I have read the Holy Qur'an, once, though it was a version which the books had been presented out of order, and of course in English.
Which books and teachings should one look upon?

Please be aware, as my name says, I am still in a state of pilgrimage, and have not yet arrived at my destination.

I thank you all for your time, and I hope that you might learn as much providing wisdom as I might from the receipt thereof.

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9 hours ago, Pilgrim said:

With respect, Greetings.

Firstly, I would say hello to you, and ask your forgiveness and understanding, should I ask foolish or impertinent questions.  Please feel free to correct me, in manner or technique, as required.

I come before you, to ask for direction, and clarity.

First, if I may, I would describe who I am, and why I've come before you.  I am Australian, and have lived in both Australia, and Great Britain.  Raised Christian.  One must admit to not being devout in that observance of Christianity though, and I considered myself atheist for some time.  This changed, because I never stopped questioning the narrative you are aware is presented, and found it... disquieting.

Over the last decade, I have become extremely disillusioned with our society.  We once were a Christian culture, but now, *appear* atheist.  What presents itself though as atheist, which in itself is bad enough, in fact is (I believe) a shield for Satanic forces.  I find myself opposed to this.  But I had learned much in my time wandering, and could no longer call myself 'Anglican'.  All Christian sects have been subverted.  With intention of observing the commandments as they had been given me, I felt that to observe the Sabbath, I had to do so in the Jewish manner, for I was aware that the use of Sunday as a Holy Day was subversion.  There are no answers within the Christian churches I've spoken with that even seem to a show a memory of why they do this.  As such, I had become an apostate Christian, selecting for myself those instructions I considered devout, appropriate and wholesome.

I do this because I wish to see a change within my, our society.  A return to God is an absolute must, for this, the people who I considered mine, do not consider me theirs, nor do they consider anyone so.  I have held this conviction for some time now.

I briefly pondered conversion to Russian (Serbian) Orthodox, considering it to be 'less corrupt' than Western Protestantism, and considerably more sound than the entirely corrupt Catholic church.  Seeing though that they, too, did not observe the Sabbath as instructed gave me pause.

I had briefly considered Islam.  Having spent time in Britain, I had come to know Muslims of a variety of characters.  This made me (I hope) less prejudiced than most Australians seem to be.  But... I admit, I felt that this was being dishonest to who I was (despite knowing that Muslim means 'to prostrate before God', and that therefore, I was already in some measure a Muslim).  

I have been back in Australia seven years.  In the last two years, I had the chance to converse with a Sunni Jordanian.  He and I enjoyed discourse.  I affirmed being Christian to him, and he and I both were aware how Western governments are agitating for war, and division.  Understanding that, it was strange to admit that I could well engage with him and his brethren as a New Crusader in the war being fomented. 

I wish to stand for God, against those who would elevate themselves to such a position.

Searching for understanding on the Sabbath led me to your site.   I would thank your member, SpIzo, for a very informative post that provided me with all the answers I required on that matter.

Until now, one had never understood the reason for the schism between Shia and Sunni.  I was aware of the primary difference (elected leaders, versus a Leader related to the Prophet) but why one should choose one over the other, I did not know.  Until I see that it was due to one converted Jew who it would appear led the Sunni astray.  This is not an uncommon tale...

I have long held respect for Iran.  Aware of it's long and treasured history, it's honesty in word, and the injustices committed against it since 1953 which we as Westerners must dig to discover.

And this brings me to a place where I wish to know more.  Australia does not appear to have a strong Shia community.  I will admit, it is hard to find trust in my heart for the Sunni.  This may well be due to the incessant propaganda we are subjected to, but I am aware of the Wahabis, how the British had a hand in their formulation, and how it appears to be their hand behind many of the actions which are used to defame Islam in this day.

Peace and greetings brother. Welcome to ShiaChat.

The successor of the Prophet Muhammad (saw), Imam Ali said, "Man is either your brother in faith or your brother in humanity"

9 hours ago, Pilgrim said:

Which finally brings me to my questions.

What is the best way to learn more at this time?
Where and how would someone observe Shia Islam in country Australia?
Does being a baptized Christian have any impact?

I have read the Holy Qur'an, once, though it was a version which the books had been presented out of order, and of course in English.
Which books and teachings should one look upon?

Please be aware, as my name says, I am still in a state of pilgrimage, and have not yet arrived at my destination.

I thank you all for your time, and I hope that you might learn as much providing wisdom as I might from the receipt thereof.

Shia Islam is not as prevalent in Australia but there are Shia centers there. I think br. @Sumerian and some other members of SC reside in Australia. They can help you in terms of local places to learn about shia islam.

You being baptized makes no difference to becoming a Muslim.

There is a plethora of information available about the Shia. I would suggest start with the core beliefs, namely:

  • Tawheed - belief in the Oneness of Allah (God)
  • Adl - belief in the justice of Allah
  • ProphetHood - belief in the prophets of Allah out of which Prophet Muhammad (saw) is the last and final prophet.
  • Leadership (Imamah) - belief that the Prophet (saw) chose his successor to be Imam Ali (as) and then there were 11 subsequent to him
  • Day of Judgement (Qiyamah) - belief in a final day of judgement for all mankind.

A good starting guide is this book Elements of Islamic Studies. Ch 9 - 13 talk about the above core beliefs (usul-e-deen).

Good luck in your pilgrimage.

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Salam  @Pilgrim welcome to shiachat:cuddle:the classic way of understanding of Shia Islam is first reading of "then I was Guided"by Tijany

https://www.al-islam.org/then-i-was-guided-muhammad-al-tijani-al-samawi

https://www.al-islam.org/peshawar-nights-sultan-al-waadhim-sayyid-muhammad-al-musawi-ash-shirazi

Also brother @MustafaMc has same situation &way & intention as you that you can ask him for better instructions :book:

Also @Wholehearted Shi'a is also an Australian that you can ask your questions from him.:discussion:

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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@Pilgrim  السلام عليكم

I was in your situation once in 2014, then i started reading about islam and God lead me to shia committed and knowledgeable people, I started asking them questions and they guided me all the way. When i said the shahada at first i felt overwhelmed because i realized i have so much to grasp. I guess what i'm trying to say is don't worry you can understand the fundamentals of shia islam one step at a time and we're here for you to answer you in whatever you need.

I know some shias in australia.They are indeed very sweet, I hope this location is near you so you will be able to attend it.

28576913_10154825468904058_5635998864125206996_n.jpg

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Peace be upon you, Pilgrim. This is something I had written on another thread.

"I was not "looking into becoming a Muslim", but what brought me into the fold of Islam was reading in the Qur'an about Jesus and Mary. I found it interesting that they were mentioned so prominently in the Qur'an, but at first I disbelieved because it was so insistent upon denying that Jesus was the Son of God. I kept reading anyway and then like a light switch was flipped and I saw that the Qur'an made more sense than what I believed as a Christian.

I went many years without truly loving Muhammad (saaws) for I knew little about his life. Then I happened upon the book, The Sealed Nectar, and I saw the nobility of his character and the struggles he endured to establish the worship of One God and to abolish the worship of idols. One cannot love what one does not know.

I had long been troubled by the conflict between Ali and Muawiyah even to the point of asking the (Sunni) Imam of my 2010 Hajj group about this matter to which he gave an evasive answer. I then started understanding the conflict when a few years ago I read the book "Destiny Disrupted: A History of the World through Islamic Eyes". Then the matter of the very private night burial of Fatima came up in a discussion and I was given an article about Fadak that led me to read several books by Muhammad al-Tijani al-Samawi and then others such as Peshawar Nights. These books have led me to have a different view of early Islamic history and they have resolved the deep lingering questions that had long bothered me. However, I went through a brief period of doubt where I was so troubled that this issue of usurpation of Ali's right of Imamate leadership took place so soon after the death of Muhammad (saaws)."

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I recommend these books:

A good English translation of the Qur'an - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1904063209/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

A biography of Muhammad https://www.amazon.com/Sealed-Nectar-Biography-Nobel-Prophet/dp/159144070X/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1520490892&sr=8-6&keywords=the+sealed+nectar

Sunni perspective on beliefs and practices of Islam - https://www.amazon.com/Islam-Beliefs-Teachings-Ghulam-Sarwar/dp/0907261388/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1520490928&sr=8-1&keywords=islam+beliefs+and+teachings+by+ghulam+sarwar

Islamic history https://www.amazon.com/Destiny-Disrupted-History-through-Islamic/dp/B00282MRLS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1520491265&sr=8-1&keywords=destiny+disrupted+a+history+of+the+world+through+islamic+eyes

A history of the Sunni-Shi'a split from the perspective of a Jewess - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0385523947/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Various books by Muhammad at-Tijani https://www.amazon.com/Then-Guided-Muhammad-Tijani-Samawi/dp/1519168764/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1520491456&sr=8-1&keywords=then+i+was+guided

https://www.amazon.com/Shias-al-Sunnah-Muhammad-al-Tijani-al-Samawi/dp/1508536554/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1520491492&sr=8-1&keywords=Muhammad+al-Tijani

https://www.amazon.com/Be-Truthful-Muhammad-al-Tijani-al-Samawi/dp/1985678950/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1520491492&sr=8-4&keywords=Muhammad+al-Tijani

Other book from Shi'a perspective on Sunni - Shi'a split

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1542321131/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1519112386/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The Path of Eloquence - believed to be derived from sermons or sayings of Ali ibn Abu Talib https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1481712632/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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Darwin's Doubt is a very good book to read relative to the existence of God per the theory of Intelligent Design in opposition to the atheistic view of naturalistic Theory of Evolution https://www.amazon.com/Darwins-Doubt-Explosive-Origin-Intelligent/dp/0062071483/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1520512296&sr=8-1&keywords=darwin's+doubt+stephen+meyer

I am presently reading this book about the Shi'a beliefs and the One God http://mtrust.org.uk/shop/books/a-shiite-anthology-new-edition/
PDF version http://www.files.shiamultimedia.com/data/05-books/english/A Shi'ite Anthology.pdf

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نَحْنُ نَقُصُّ عَلَيْكَ نَبَأَهُمْ بِالْحَقِّ ۚ إِنَّهُمْ فِتْيَةٌ آمَنُوا بِرَبِّهِمْ وَزِدْنَاهُمْ هُدًى {13}

[Pickthal 18:13] We narrate unto thee their story with truth. Lo! they were young men who believed in their Lord, and We increased them in guidance.

*****

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235034962-is-fatima-as-the-proof-of-Allah-swt-over-the-imams-as/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-3126029

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/35348-sayyida-fatima-al-zahra-as-official-thread/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-3126030

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