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MuslimahAK

Ayatollah Shirazi's Son is arrested

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Bismillah ir Arahman ir Rahim

Salamu Alaikum!

I was just reading that Iran wanted to arrest Ayatollah Shirazi for criticings Wilayat al-Faqih in a lecture. And after him and his son left the grave of Imam 'Ali Zain al-Abideen, they were stopped, his son was violentyly beaten and arrest and taking to an unknown destination. 

I am having a hard time understanding why this happened and what it all means in the big picture of things. 

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I'm agree with his arrest. The problem is not just criticism Wilayat Faqih his lectures & actions caused many death of Shia muslims in Iraq & Syria by Wahhabists & ISIS 

What the heck is Islamic Unity

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2 hours ago, MuslimahAK said:

I was just reading that Iran wanted to arrest Ayatollah Shirazi for criticings Wilayat al-Faqih in a lecture. And after him and his son left the grave of Imam 'Ali Zain al-Abideen, they were stopped, his son was violentyly beaten and arrest and taking to an unknown destination. 

Salam. The grave of the 4th Imam AS is not in Iran, so this story sounds completely fabricated.  No doubt the website where you read this is a fishy site. 

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1 minute ago, Mohamed1993 said:

It said his mosque not shrine.

The 4th Imam AS has no shrine. 

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3 hours ago, MuslimahAK said:

And after him and his son left the grave of Imam 'Ali Zain al-Abideen, they were stopped, his son was violentyly beaten and arrest and taking to an unknown destination. 

The grave of the 4th Imam (AS) is in Jannatul Baqi in Medina. 

Was he beaten by Saudi Wahabbi stooges? 

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7 minutes ago, Mohamed1993 said:

Happened in Qom. 

Thanks. The OP said the grave of the 4th Imam AS. Clearly what she said was incorrect. 

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On 3/6/2018 at 6:10 PM, Mohamed1993 said:

Happened in Qom. 

He called Imam Khamenei Far’oun based on this website http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2018/02/06/Iran-arrests-son-of-Shirazi-cleric-after-calling-Khamenei-a-pharaoh.html

If your going to do Gheeba to a marja’ behind his back, especially when you are wearing a ‘amaamah on your head, you deserve to be arrested.

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10 hours ago, MuslimahAK said:

Bismillah ir Arahman ir Rahim

Salamu Alaikum!

I was just reading that Iran wanted to arrest Ayatollah Shirazi for criticings Wilayat al-Faqih in a lecture. And after him and his son left the grave of Imam 'Ali Zain al-Abideen, they were stopped, his son was violentyly beaten and arrest and taking to an unknown destination. 

I am having a hard time understanding why this happened and what it all means in the big picture of things. 

Wa alaykum Salaam.

This information is nothing but a lie and it was aimed to cause confusion. It is important to note that the Islamic Republic of Iran does not operate in such a way. And above all, the grave of Imam Zain al-Abideen (AS) is not in Iran but in Baqi' cementary, Saudi Arabia!

Let be cautious on how we spread an unverified information because we shall be questioned by Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى. Thanks

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On 3/6/2018 at 7:11 PM, Hassan- said:

He called Imam Khamenei Far’oun based on this website http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2018/02/06/Iran-arrests-son-of-Shirazi-cleric-after-calling-Khamenei-a-pharaoh.html

If your going to do Gheeba to a marja’ behind his back, especially when you are wearing a ‘amaamah on your head, you deserve to be arrested.

its true that he is against Marja &was  increasing tensin in shia community from this Muharam specially at Arbaeen Walking like as Ahamd Al Hassan , but the source is also an anti shia site so it is not reliable & other links is from his supporting sites

http://imamhussein3.tv/news/iranian-auothorities-arrest-ayatollah-sayyid-hussein-al-shirazi/

http://shiawaves.com/english/marjaeyat/5403-ayatollah-sayyid-hussein-al-shirazi-summoned-and-arrested-by-iranian-intelligence

http://www.thebaghdadpost.com/en/story/24527/Protest-in-Karbala-against-Iran-detention-of-prominent-Shia-cleric

 

http://www.thebaghdadpost.com/en/story/23433/Iran-arrests-son-of-senior-cleric-after-calling-Khamenei-a-pharaoh

 

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On 3/6/2018 at 3:37 PM, MuslimahAK said:

oh wow. I

I did not even know that Shirazi was considered to be a bad scholar. I am new and this seems beyond my level. I just saw this news and didn't understand it's significance. 

He isn't a 'bad' scholar, but i don't agree with him on issues like the fact it is Mustahab to take knives and blades and cut ourselves, or that it is acceptable to abuse and revile revered symbols of Sunnis , and that no real emphasis should be placed on fostering brotherhood between Muslims. However i am respectful to him, and understand the need to be cognisant of the fact we must talk respectfully of scholars, even if they are in very different schools of thought (figuratively). 

People who tend to align to him are anti-establishment Iranians, a group among Iraqis who also float between Sayed Sistani , and the more extreme Indo-paks who like his justification for some ritualistic practices. I don't say this to offend any group, but it's what i've found.

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6 hours ago, Hassan- said:

If your going to do Gheeba to a marja’ behind his back, especially when you are wearing a ‘amaamah on your head, you deserve to be arrested.

I'm not sure the wording was the problem, because this is not the only case where clerics that are critical of the Iranian government without using that exact language have been reprimanded or punished. Look, I acknowledge that the Iranian government has done a great deal in helping fight the takfiri fanatics like ISIS and Al Qaeda, as well as fighting the Israelis in Lebanon, but that said, we don't do ourselves any favour when we shun any criticism of the Iranian government as enemy propaganda, fomenting chaos, empowering the enemy. How do we improve something if we don't even want to have a conversation about it because we will empower the enemy? These labels, Pro-Shirazi. anti-WF, Zionist/MI6/CIA agent are in my view not any different from when Americans refer to people as Pro-Putin bots, they are not helpful when people actually just want to see more accountability in a system they care about enough to question and criticise. We're worried about fomenting chaos and creating disunity, but we're already doing that through these labels, "Pro-Shirazi", "pro-Khamenei". It seems on some level, the Shiism aspect of everything gets lost and people create new labels to then just disregard others and accuse them with things that have no basis in reality. You end up accusing people of something you have no proof of, which if the tables were turned wouldn't be well received (like people saying something about Ayatollah Khamenei which isn't true), but people are all too happy to do it to the other side. 

Edited by Mohamed1993

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Wow

@MuslimahAK

Don’t listen to such Iranian propaganda. Though I have respect for Iran, some people in this Forum are hypocritical. They refuse to call the enemies of Ahlulbayt (asws) liars and bad people, yet call a marja taqleed. Call Abu Bakr and Umar a liar, and you’ll see the reaction of the mods.

12 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

I'm agree with his arrest. The problem is not just criticism Wilayat Faqih his lectures & actions caused many death of Shia muslims in Iraq & Syria by Wahhabists & ISIS 

What the heck is Islamic Unity

WaAllahi, Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى is patient with people like you. People who can’t even write properly English, try to spread “Islamic Pulse” videos, known for their roots. 

I have responded to such claims so many times, I’ll not bother responding anymore. I challenge anyone who has enmity towards Shirazi ulama to PM me.

Btw, as per your info, Absolute Wilayah al Faqih is part of the Shirazi theory of governance, except that they believe in the application of Shura i.e Shura al Fuqaha. Your ignorance exceeds the limits akhi.

Edited by SheikhAlHabib'fan

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30 minutes ago, Intellectual Resistance said:

He isn't a 'bad' scholar

People use their own personal biases to make judgements. I don't like everything that Shirazi says either. But I also don't appreciate the hypocrisy either where criticisms of Ayatollah Khamenei and the Iranian government's policies often get dismissed as propaganda, the enemy's work, yet many of these people making these claims criticise Shirazi and his fans, making accusations about them without backing them up. 

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7 minutes ago, Mohamed1993 said:

People use their own personal biases to make judgements. I don't like everything that Shirazi says either. But I also don't appreciate the hypocrisy either where criticisms of Ayatollah Khamenei and the Iranian government's policies often get dismissed as propaganda, the enemy's work, yet many of these people making these claims criticise Shirazi and his fans, making accusations about them without backing them up. 

Salam in Recent months he crossed red lines that was not more tolerable ,if sombody in a Wahabi Country like KSA acts like him he would beheaded by them as which they beheaded Sheikh Nimr & arrested his son for just critisising them .do a search in social media that his near persons to him how much spread hatred between all muslim & fuel Wahhabi propaganda against Shia Islam & Muslims.

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3 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam in Recent months he crossed red lines that was not more tolerable ,if sombody in a Wahabi Country like KSA acts like him he would beheaded by them as which they beheaded Sheikh Nimr & arrested his son for just critisising them .do a search in social media that his near persons to him how much spread hatred between all muslim & fuel Wahhabi propaganda against Shia Islam & Muslims.

From speaking to Shirazi fans myself, their argument usually is since the death of the prophet, no matter how nice the Shiite imams were, the Sunnis of the time always had issues with them, so what difference does it make whether or not we are loud in condemning Sunnis or not? We're disliked anyway. Iran's opinion in Sunni majority countries is awful even though it champions a pro-unity stance, mainly because of the war in Syria. A recent AJ poll showed in a war between Iran and Israel, Qataris supported Israel by 56-44% and in a war between Hezbollah and Israel, they would support Israel by 73-27%. 

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2 minutes ago, Mohamed1993 said:

From speaking to Shirazi fans myself, their argument usually is since the death of the prophet, no matter how nice the Shiite imams were, the Sunnis of the time always had issues with them, so what difference does it make whether or not we are loud in condemning Sunnis or not? We're disliked anyway. Iran's opinion in Sunni majority countries is awful even though it champions a pro-unity stance, mainly because of the war in Syria. A recent AJ poll showed in a war between Iran and Israel, Qataris supported Israel by 56-44% and in a war between Hezbollah and Israel, they would support Israel by 73-27%. 

We don't rely on them because we know their Coward & Betrayal  nature through these years but we don't need any more hatred among Shia Sunni Muslims. even if Sunni countries stay neutral  & don't do anything it is better for us. 

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2 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

We don't rely on them because we know their Coward & Betrayal  nature through these years but we don't need any more hatred among Shia Sunni Muslims. even if Sunni countries stay neutral  & don't do anything it is better for us. 

Nice logic tbh. 

We don’t need “Sunni”-Shi'a hatred. We need Shi'a-Shi'a hatred.

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4 hours ago, SheikhAlHabib'fan said:

Wow

@MuslimahAK

Don’t listen to such Iranian propaganda. Though I have respect for Iran, some people in this Forum are hypocritical. They refuse to call the enemies of Ahlulbayt (asws) liars and bad people, yet call a marja taqleed. Call Abu Bakr and Umar a liar, and you’ll see the reaction of the mods.

WaAllahi, Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى is patient with people like you. People who can’t even write properly English, try to spread “Islamic Pulse” videos, known for their roots. 

I have responded to such claims so many times, I’ll not bother responding anymore. I challenge anyone who has enmity towards Shirazi ulama to PM me.

Btw, as per your info, Absolute Wilayah al Faqih is part of the Shirazi theory of governance, except that they believe in the application of Shura i.e Shura al Fuqaha. Your ignorance exceeds the limits akhi.

the jealousy and hatred is strong with this one...

really no difference between shirazis and wahhabis.. 

WF is the only working shia govt resisting Zionism, and helping the oppressed. All shia who work against them are working against themselves.. you dont have to love WF, or be part of it.. no one is asking you to. It is a working, functioning govt. that has saved countries, and shias across the world. Imam Mahdi a.s is with us and one day will take the lead when the time is ready.

but with these type of shia we are not ready for the Imam.

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On 3/7/2018 at 2:39 AM, Mohamed1993 said:

From speaking to Shirazi fans myself, their argument usually is since the death of the prophet, no matter how nice the Shiite imams were, the Sunnis of the time always had issues with them, so what difference does it make whether or not we are loud in condemning Sunnis or not? We're disliked anyway. Iran's opinion in Sunni majority countries is awful even though it champions a pro-unity stance, mainly because of the war in Syria. A recent AJ poll showed in a war between Iran and Israel, Qataris supported Israel by 56-44% and in a war between Hezbollah and Israel, they would support Israel by 73-27%. 

do you really think the beef is about one fatwa allowing to curse or not.. 

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I don't know what happened and where it happened and if anything is happened at all. But, don't pay attention to these "he was arrested for criticizing the Leader" or "he was arrested for being a Christian" or "he was arrested for criticizing the Welayat Faqih" etc. etc. These are common things we hear in the media by anti-Iran individuals and sources. No one would be arrested for these things. Although majority of Ulama in Iran believe in the concept of Welayat Faqih, there are a few people who question it. Their debates also exist in the internet. No one is arrested for just being a critic of Welayat Faqih.

Don't trust in these things about Iran in the media. Don't trust anything you hear and see in the media against Iran at all.

16 hours ago, Mohamed1993 said:

Happened in Qom. 

 When his funny and Hollywood and Bollywodish story began with the "by the order of Iran's Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei" nothing more is needed at least for me to understand how Muawiah-like these liars are. May Allah give them what they deserve.

Their next news for the story?!:

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2 hours ago, kirtc said:

really no difference between shirazis and wahhabis.. 

Wow. I challenge you to say no difference between Abu Bakr and Abu Lahab.

WaAllahi the lie and hypocrisy is strong with this one.

2 hours ago, kirtc said:

WF is the only working shia govt resisting Zionism, and helping the oppressed. All shia who work against them are working against themselves.. you dont have to love WF, or be part of it.. no one is asking you to. It is a working, functioning govt. that has saved countries, and shias across the world.

I’m not against Wilayah al-Faqih (like I was before). Since you’re very knowledgeable, can you tell me the difference between Absolute Wilayatul Faqih and Shuratul Fuqaha? Akhi, you cannot have a Shuratul Fuqaha without having Absolute Wilayah al Faqih.

Smh. I clearly said that I respect the I.R of Iran.

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3 hours ago, kirtc said:

do you really think the beef is about one fatwa allowing to curse or not.. 

I was addressing @Ashvazdanghe when he said Shirazis are the cause of so much death of Shias in Iraq and Syria. To which my response is Iran champions a pro-unity stance but its opinion is dreadful in most Arab countries except in countries with larger Shiite populations. Whether you curse or not, it doesn't seem to make much of a difference.

Edited by Mohamed1993

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7 hours ago, SheikhAlHabib'fan said:

Nice logic tbh. 

We don’t need “Sunni”-Shi'a hatred. We need Shi'a-Shi'a hatred.

We don’t need none of them but Shirazis start spreading shia-shia hatred.

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Two:

9 hours ago, SheikhAlHabib'fan said:

Wow

@MuslimahAK

Don’t listen to such Iranian propaganda. Though I have respect for Iran, some people in this Forum are hypocritical. They refuse to call the enemies of Ahlulbayt (asws) liars and bad people, yet call a marja taqleed. Call Abu Bakr and Umar a liar, and you’ll see the reaction of the mods.

WaAllahi, Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى is patient with people like you. People who can’t even write properly English, try to spread “Islamic Pulse” videos, known for their roots. 

I have responded to such claims so many times, I’ll not bother responding anymore. I challenge anyone who has enmity towards Shirazi ulama to PM me.

Btw, as per your info, Absolute Wilayah al Faqih is part of the Shirazi theory of governance, except that they believe in the application of Shura i.e Shura al Fuqaha. Your ignorance exceeds the limits akhi.

Bro, l had viliyat-I-faqih in college taught by a Farsi specialist who focused on the religious aspects. But we didn't have "Shura-I-Shura al-Fuqaha". Can you give me a reference to read or study?

4 hours ago, kirtc said:

do you really think the beef is about one fatwa allowing to curse or not.. 

Cursing is something to be careful about. The two most applicable ayateen are 2:159 and 5:78. Please note that Allah-s.w.t. did these through Daood-a.s. and lsa-a.s. and not on their own authority.

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9 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

Bro, l had viliyat-I-faqih in college taught by a Farsi specialist who focused on the religious aspects. But we didn't have "Shura-I-Shura al-Fuqaha". Can you give me a reference to read or study?

Here akhi:

aspects_of_the_political.pdf

 

 

the_islamic_system.pdf

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7 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

Bro, l had viliyat-I-faqih in college taught by a Farsi specialist who focused on the religious aspects. But we didn't have "Shura-I-Shura al-Fuqaha". Can you give me a reference to read or study?

Salam it was just an idea between shia scholars after Iran revolution that is just mentioned in some rare speech’s the reviving of Idea of W F started by a book by Imam Khomeini (ra) as Islamic Government: Governance of the Jurist Book 

 

ولایت فقیه (کتاب)

 

ولایت فقیه یا نامه‌ای از امام موسوی کاشف‌الغطاء یا حکومت اسلامی[۱] مجموعه‌ای از ۱۳ درس‌گفتار روح‌الله خمینی در حوزه علمیه نجف در مبحث «ولایت فقیه» است که در بهمن ۱۳۴۸ ایراد شده‌اند. این کتاب در سال ۱۳۴۹ برای نخستین بار در بیروت چاپ و به ایران فرستاده شد و در سال ۱۳۵۶ با ضمیمه سخنرانی دیگری به نام <<Jahad Akbar>>was an attachment to it>>«جهاد اکبر» به طور رسمی در ایران چاپ و پس از آن نیز بارها تجدید چاپ شد. ترجمهٔ این کتاب اولین بار در سال ۱۹۷۰ به چاپ رسید و احتمالاً تأثیرگذارترین سند نوشتاری‌ای است که در دوران مدرن در حمایت از حکومت دینی نوشته شده.[۲]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Government:_Governance_of_the_Jurist

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8 hours ago, Mohamed1993 said:

From speaking to Shirazi fans myself, their argument usually is since the death of the prophet, no matter how nice the Shiite imams were, the Sunnis of the time always had issues with them, so what difference does it make whether or not we are loud in condemning Sunnis or not? We're disliked anyway. Iran's opinion in Sunni majority countries is awful even though it champions a pro-unity stance, mainly because of the war in Syria. A recent AJ poll showed in a war between Iran and Israel, Qataris supported Israel by 56-44% and in a war between Hezbollah and Israel, they would support Israel by 73-27%. 

As someone who is deeply entrenched in the Sunni community, who has extensive networks with Sunnis, and half of whose family are Sunnis, i would politely disagree with some of the things you have mentioned.

The Sunnis of the time of our Aimmah were a little different to the Sunnis we have today - not that it matters in what i am going to say, but i need to establish this. Those Sunnis were mostly ignorant of Shia Islam, fed a lot of lies, often were against the Banu-Hashim, and saw the Alids as a threat to their rule and authority. The enmity towards our Aimmah and their followers truly saw its root in very deep political and geographical divides.  However, with time we now have populations who claim to love our Aimmah. Even Ibn Taymiyyah himself regarded the first seven Aimmah as great scholars. Therefore we aren't truly discussing the same populations here. Even then, people like Imam Jaffer as Sadiq (as) were actually respected by people then, but their followers had bigger issues.

Now, to discuss your main point, let me tell you something my Salafi cousin recently told me.

He said (paraphrasing): "There is a way to go about discussing sensitive issues. Some so-called Salafi speakers call out people and claim they are Kuffar and revile and abuse them. You know if someone is an Atheist or a non-Muslim and rejects Islam out of arrogance, it may be that they will go to hell unless they reform. But you don't go to them and start saying 'You Kuffar, son of a Kuffar, you will enter hell where you will be tortured for your arrogance and deviance'. There's a hikmah in engaging with discussion. Similarly, extreme Shias often don't know that you can have a deviant belief, and people will be upset you may or may not hold it, but so long as you keep it to yourself, don't abuse or revile personalities, and discuss things in civil way, people will just deal with you on how you outwardly are. Now if you hold a deviant belief the problem becomes something between you and Allah. The moment you start to publicly abuse, revile, malign, talk in a disrespectful way, you now turn a deviant belief into a public Fitnah, and there is an enormous difference in that'.

Anti-Shiite views have actually come from the group that performs self-mutilation. You see gore and blood and even babies not spared and are abused by parents who take dirty butcher knives and cut their scalps. You then have the most foul-mouthed speakers and their followers online and offline who abuse, insult, revile and talk about sensitive issues in a manner that causes enormous furore and problems, goes viral, and is what people remember.  Of course , people will not look favourably upon Shias anyway, but you go from being tolerated and having a symbiotic and mutual respectful relationship, to one where you become enemies. 

I can tell you, from my experience, my extensive communication with Sunnis, and the like, it makes an enormous difference. Even a forum like Shiachat, when people started foolishly insulting Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman, comparing them to Donald Trump and reviling them in other ways, that thread made the rounds on Sunni forums, and i came on here and questioned how on earth a thread like that is even allowed. It caused damage, and people actually performed L'anah on the ones who were doing it. People don't realise that how you say something, how you talk, and what you bring into the public can have devastating consequences. 

Some people think that they're brave by abusing revered symbols of other schools, and i've often found many of such individuals couldn't write their name in Arabic, couldn't tell you the name of the first six Surahs of the Quran, and really have formed cults. 

Edited by Intellectual Resistance

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15 hours ago, Hassan- said:

First of all if they hahve arrested him based on this then i feel sorry for him. Islam doesn't allow you to arrest people because they said something about your leader. People use to stone Prophet PBUHP but he never arrested them. 

If they arrested him because he was spreading wrong information then they should give him fair chance to defend himself. 

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