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In the Name of God بسم الله

When the women is jealous

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2 hours ago, lola20 said:

You have already said in PM there's no evidence that can convince you that the Prophet mistreated women, even when it's very clear he enslaved non Muslim women after they watched their husbands and fathers die at the hands of his own armies, even when he married (keeping in mind marriage means sex) a 9 year old girl, an undisputed fact in our history, even when the Quran says a woman's testimony is worth half that of a man's, even when the Quran says it's okay for men to beat up their wives, even when women are only granted 1/3 inheritance and the man is entitled to 2, even when Imam Ali stated women are deficient in faith, shares, and intelligence. 

This is just the historical evidence I can state off the top of my head. I'm sure there is a wealth of more evidence I can find, and even more so that I bet was edited out of history completely. 

It seems that you misunderstood Islamic teachings .prophet  (pbu) never fought for enslaving women & never mistreated them .his marriage with a 9 years old many times rejected by fact through shia Scholars .If Islam puts a law for women it's for their respect & comfort in Christianity & Judaism women have no right  & today western laws are man made rules after reneisance when Imam Ali (as) talks about women he talks with true reasoning but you read his worst by biased idea.

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Salam, 1. We being muslims follow rules of Allah and believe that there is goodness for us in every command of His, some of which might be obvious but others that we cannot readily see.A man havi

The complete IRONY is that in the other post about a man saying his wife had a male study buddy in her university and was showing obvious signs of emotional cheating, all of a sudden for you the OP sh

For the sisters that are refusing the perspective of islam about jealousy and who are talking about the members of their families and their husbands, you are not being objective and you're not allowin

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14 minutes ago, rkazmi33 said:

Doesn't Islam say that before you give advice to others, you should act upon your advice? The sisters who are telling women to not be jealous, are they part of polygamous marriages and are they proving that they are not jealous? When I was married, I was jealous of a lot of women, who were not my ex-husband's wives, but they did interfere in my life a lot. My ex-husband wanted me to invite them to our house and expected me to give gifts to them. He also constantly compared me to them and called me ugly and told me to become like them. That's why I was jealous of them. Now that I am divorced Alhamdulillah, no one compares me to other women or forces me to act like a slave to other women. That's why I don't get jealous of other women. Does this mean I can start lecturing all the married women to not become jealous? 

I'm really sorry you had to go through that rkazmi. I think you're really strong for leaving. 

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10 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

It seems that you misunderstood Islamic teachings .prophet  (pbu) never fought for enslaving women & never mistreated them .his marriage with a 9 years old many times rejected by fact through shia Scholars .If Islam puts a law for women it's for their respect & comfort in Christianity & Judaism women have no right  & today western laws are man made rules after reneisance when Imam Ali (as) talks about women he talks with true reasoning but you read his worst by biased idea.

What did I misunderstand? 

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10 hours ago, lola20 said:

You have already said in PM there's no evidence that can convince you that the Prophet mistreated women, even when it's very clear he enslaved non Muslim women after they watched their husbands and fathers die at the hands of his own armies, even when he married (keeping in mind marriage means sex) a 9 year old girl, an undisputed fact in our history, even when the Quran says a woman's testimony is worth half that of a man's, even when the Quran says it's okay for men to beat up their wives, even when women are only granted 1/3 inheritance and the man is entitled to 2, even when Imam Ali stated women are deficient in faith, shares, and intelligence. 

This is just the historical evidence I can state off the top of my head. I'm sure there is a wealth of more evidence I can find, and even more so that I bet was edited out of history completely. 

Sister, there is no evidence, or what you perceive as evidence regarding something negative about Islam that you can tell me or show me that I have not seen or been shown before.

Bear in mind, I was born and raised in a society that told me from day 1 that Islam was wrong and I was not forced by anyone to follow Islam, it was thru my own studies and those studies contain all the matters you are mentioning in your post.

I think the major concept that you need to reflect more upon when thinking of these things that you are mentioning is: Context.

I do not think you have reflected on the context of the matters.

Either way, you can say that both you and I have studied these subjects but the difference is that, while I did not get my religion forced upon me and could objectively study Islam and other religions before intellectually choosing my religion, you on the other hand most likely got Islam forced upon you by your parents, abused by your father, seen your mother get abused by him in the name of Islam, etc, etc. 

Could you judge everything you studied objectively and reflect on it objectively? Or did you seek justifications for blaming religion for everything your father did to you and your mother?

Its more easier to process everything if you just direct your anger on something instead of moving on, I understand. But you should not deceive yourself into making the world black and white like that.

If your father is a muslim and beats his wife based on doctrine and I am a muslim and I do not beat my wife based on doctrine, then the person who is right is the person who is following the sunnah of the holy Prophet(S) and the Imams(as).

You need to calm yourself down I think and if your going to study and judge your religion, take your own background and issues out of the equation because they are really not relevant and will only cloud your judgement from being objective.

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7 hours ago, lola20 said:

What did I misunderstand? 

In your last pm you misunderstood everything about Islam you misunderstood because falsehood of people that call themselves Muslims & fabricate their ideas as Islamic teachings .for what In Quran said & Imam Ali said there is logical reason behind it

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-80-o-people-women-are

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4 minutes ago, MuslimahAK said:

Wouldn't a man's jealousy still need to be rationed and controlled? Even in Islam? As I have seen many times how a man's jealousy can be unfounded and can become homicidal. 

But WE'RE the emotional ones!

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7 hours ago, IbnSina said:

Sister, there is no evidence, or what you perceive as evidence regarding something negative about Islam that you can tell me or show me that I have not seen or been shown before.

Bear in mind, I was born and raised in a society that told me from day 1 that Islam was wrong and I was not forced by anyone to follow Islam, it was thru my own studies and those studies contain all the matters you are mentioning in your post.

I think the major concept that you need to reflect more upon when thinking of these things that you are mentioning is: Context.

I do not think you have reflected on the context of the matters.

Either way, you can say that both you and I have studied these subjects but the difference is that, while I did not get my religion forced upon me and could objectively study Islam and other religions before intellectually choosing my religion, you on the other hand most likely got Islam forced upon you by your parents, abused by your father, seen your mother get abused by him in the name of Islam, etc, etc. 

Could you judge everything you studied objectively and reflect on it objectively? Or did you seek justifications for blaming religion for everything your father did to you and your mother?

Its more easier to process everything if you just direct your anger on something instead of moving on, I understand. But you should not deceive yourself into making the world black and white like that.

If your father is a muslim and beats his wife based on doctrine and I am a muslim and I do not beat my wife based on doctrine, then the person who is right is the person who is following the sunnah of the holy Prophet(S) and the Imams(as).

You need to calm yourself down I think and if your going to study and judge your religion, take your own background and issues out of the equation because they are really not relevant and will only cloud your judgement from being objective.

So your solution for victims of Islamic-related abuse is to "go study Islam more" rather than confront the violence in our community that stems from Islamic doctrine head on?

This is not just a personal issue, it is a political one.

Victims of abuse have an invaluable perspective, a perspective that is just as valid as that of our scholars or "learned" Muslims. We need to stop belittling and brushing off their experiences as having no validity. It's just a way of squashing out criticism of the very real connection between abuse and certain parts of Islam.

What's the context you're talking about? Did I get something wrong about the history of non Muslim women being taken as slaves after their men were conquered? What about the fact that even after converted, this did not mean they were free? Are you telling me they had a choice to say "I refuse to be a slave/concubine" and walk way with their lives? You're telling me they had a choice? Are you telling me there's absolutely NO chance that at least SOME of these women were taken by force?

What's the context for getting only 1/3 inheritance? The context of Islamic patriarchy? Where it's the man's "responsibility" to take care of women so you get to have more money and more rights than me? In the context where there's really only a few distinctions between women and slaves?

The thing is with Muslims is these things may have been practical centuries ago, in the context where women were not treated well and no one cared about their rights. These things are not practical in TODAY's context. Things have changed, and the "misconceptions" people have about women in the Middle East/Islam, are not entirely misconceptions. In comparison to the progress with women's rights in the rest of the world, we have not changed that much collectively in our sexist ways over the centuries.

And I just want to make one thing clear - I am not completely blaming Islamic doctrine, nor am I excusing it. I am saying there is a connection between certain interpretations of Islamic doctrine (yes even Shia interpretations) and sexism and violence against women.

Which brings me to this:

Quote

In your last pm you misunderstood everything about Islam you misunderstood because falsehood of people that call themselves Muslims & fabricate their ideas as Islamic teachings .for what In Quran said & Imam Ali said there is logical reason behind it

I read the interpretation you provided, and it just made everything worse:

Quote

O people! Women are deficient in Faith, deficient in shares and deficient in intelligence. As regards the deficiency in their Faith, it is their abstention from prayers and fasting during their menstrual period.

As regards deficiency in their intelligence it is because the evidence of two women is equal to that of one man. As for the deficiency of their shares that is because of their share in inheritance being half of men. So beware of the evils of women. Be on your guard even from those of them who are (reportedly) good. Do not obey them even in good things so that they may not attract you to evils.

مَعَاشِرَ النَّاسِ، إِنَّ النِّسَاءَ نَوَاقِصُ الاْيمَانِ، نَوَاقِصُ الْحُظُوظِ، نَوَاقِصُ الْعُقُولِ: فَأَمَّا نُقْصَانُ إِيمَانِهِنَّ فَقُعُودُهُنَّ عَنِ الصَّلاةِ وَالصِّيَامِ فِي أَيَّامِ حَيْضِهِنَّ، وَأَمَّا نُقْصَانُ عُقُولِهِنَّ فَشَهَادَةُ امْرَأَتَيْنِ مِنْهُنّ كَشَهَادَةِ الرَّجُلِ لْوَاحِدِ، وَأَمَّا نُقْصَانُ حُظُوظِهِنَّ فَمَوَارِيثُهُنَّ عَلَى الاْنْصَافِ مِنْ مَوارِيثِ الرِّجَالِ; فَاتَّقُوا شِرَارَ النِّسَاءِ، وَكُونُوا مِنْ خِيَارِهِنَّ عَلَى حَذَر، وَلاَتُطِيعُوهُنَّ فِي المَعْرُوفِ حَتَّى لاَ يَطْمَعْنَ فِي المُنكَرِ.

 

Quote

1. Amir al-mu'minin delivered this sermon after the devastation created by the Battle of Jamal. Since the devastation resulting from this battle was the outcome of blindly following a woman's command, in this sermon he has described women's physical defects and their causes and effects. Thus their first weakness is that for a few days in every month they have to abstain from prayer and fasting, and this abstention from worship is a proof of their deficiency in Faith. Although the real meaning of `iman (belief) is heart-felt testimony and inner conviction yet metaphorically it also applies to action and character. Since actions are the reflection of Belief they are also regarded as part of Belief. Thus, it is related from Imam `Ali ibn Musa ar-Rida (p.b.u.t.) that:
`iman (belief) is testimony at heart, admission by the tongue and action by the limbs.
The second weakness is that their natural propensities do not admit of full performance of their intelligence. Therefore, nature has given them the power of intelligence only in accordance with the scope of their activities which can guide them in pregnancy, delivery, child nursing, child care and house-hold affairs. On the basis of this weakness of mind and intelligence their evidence has not been accorded the status of man's evidence, as Allah says: . . . then call to witness two witnesses from among your men and if there not be two men then (take) a man and two women, of those ye approve of the witnesses, so that should one of the two (women) forget the (second) one of the two may remind the other... (Qur'an, 2:282)
The third weakness is that their share in inheritance is half of man's share in inheritance as the Qur'an says: Allah enjoineth you about your children. The male shall have the equal of the shares of two females...(4:11)
This shows woman's weakness because the reason for her share in inheritance being half is that the liability of her maintenance rests on man. When man's position is that of a maintainer and care taker the status of the weaker sex who is in need of maintenance and care-taking is evident.
After describing their natural weakness, Amir al-mu'minin points out the mischief of blindly following them and wrongly obeying them. He says that not to say of bad things but even if they say in regard to some good things it should not be done in a way that these should feel as if it is being done in pursuance of their wish, but rather in a way that they should realise that the good act has been performed because of its being good and that their pleasure or wish has nothing to do with it. If they have even the doubt that their pleasures has been kept in view in it they would slowly increase in their demands and would wish that they should be obeyed in all matters however evil, the inevitable consequence whereof will be destruction and ruin. ash-Shaykh Muhammad `Abduh writes about this view of Amir al-mu'minin as under: Amir al-mu'minin has said a thing which is corroborated by experiences of centuries.

I don't think I need to explain the hatred for women in this narration.

Anyway, I've derailed this thread enough. PM me if you want to debate some more.

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5 hours ago, lola20 said:

n when the Quran says it's okay for men to beat up their wives,

This is not true. 

This line in the Quran is related to the oddest of cases. The entire surah is dedicated to describing odd cases with regards to marriage.

This line is related to woman who are actively cheating on their husbands and proudly flaunt their sin of adultery. 

This does not mean that husbands are allowed to beat up their wives.

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19 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

This is not true. 

This line in the Quran is related to the oddest of cases. The entire surah is dedicated to describing odd cases with regards to marriage.

This line is related to woman who are actively cheating on their husbands and proudly flaunt their sin of adultery. 

This does not mean that husbands are allowed to beat up their wives.

Then why does it instruct them to do it in the Quran? Seriously, in what situation (other than self defense) is it ok for a man to beat up his wife? Even if she's cheating on him, even if she "flaunts her adultery" it is STILL not okay

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On 3/4/2018 at 11:17 PM, yasahebalzaman.313 said:

السلام عليكم

It is said that the jealousy of a man comes from protection, But the jealousy of a women is Kufr and comes from Envy. It is said by ahlulbayt (as) that Envy eats faith like the fire eats wood.

I believe that this is some kind of a Calamity especially for women that should be controlled, because no matter how much you evolve spiritually and religiously, if it comes a time and you feel a tiny bit of this deceitful emotions it will be as if all of your hard work is gone to the trash.

Even if your husband doesn't wanna get married to another women in your lifetime, this feeling is innate in ourselves and should be worked on. To be able to reach a higher stance we should eliminate this devious state of mind.

My question for you sisters is how you manage to control and overcome the feeling of jealousy when your husband for example decides to marry another women? Or when a women approaches your man... etc.

Back to the OP.

I don't see jealousy in and of itself being a bad thing necessarily.

I heard Dr. Phil say that the only difference between you and someone you're jealous of is you keep settling for less. In this context, jealousy can be a positive and motivating emotion to have.

Within THIS context, anger resulting from jealousy or betrayal can motivate you to leave a bad husband who keeps cheating on you or flirting with other women. Again, a positive and motivating emotion.

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1 hour ago, lola20 said:

النَّاسِ، إِنَّ النِّسَاءَ نَوَاقِصُ الاْيمَانِ، نَوَاقِصُ الْحُظُوظِ، نَوَاقِصُ الْعُقُولِ: فَأَمَّا نُقْصَانُ إِيمَانِهِنَّ فَقُعُودُهُنَّ عَنِ الصَّلاةِ وَالصِّيَامِ فِي أَيَّامِ حَيْضِهِنَّ، وَأَمَّا نُقْصَانُ عُقُولِهِنَّ فَشَهَادَةُ امْرَأَتَيْنِ مِنْهُنّ كَشَهَادَةِ الرَّجُلِ الْوَاحِدِ، وَأَمَّا نُقْصَانُ حُظُوظِهِنَّ فَمَوَارِيثُهُنَّ عَلَى الاْنْصَافِ مِنْ مَوارِيثِ الرِّجَالِ; فَاتَّقُوا شِرَارَ النِّسَاءِ، وَكُونُوا مِنْ خِيَارِهِنَّ عَلَى حَذَر، وَلاَتُطِيعُوهُنَّ فِي المَعْرُوفِ حَتَّى لاَ يَطْمَعْنَ فِي المُنكَرِ.

 

I've been told that imam ali(as) made this speech when aisha waged a war against him. And since it made sense to me i didnt do a research on it. Lol

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7 minutes ago, lola20 said:

Back to the OP.

I don't see jealousy in and of itself being a bad thing necessarily.

I heard Dr. Phil say that the only difference between you and someone you're jealous of is you keep settling for less. In this context, jealousy can be a positive and motivating emotion to have.

Within THIS context, anger resulting from jealousy or betrayal can motivate you to leave a bad husband who keeps cheating on you or flirting with other women. Again, a positive and motivating emotion.

You're Overlapping subjects sister. You might have had a bad experience with Islam. 

Who said it is even close to acceptable living with a bad husband and flirting around having no self respect and dignity?

I'm quoting imam ali and you're quoting Dr Phil? We're clearly not on the same level of arguments.

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The narration in sermon 80 in Nahj-al Balaqa about women's wisdom is not authentic (regarding its sanad).

If it was true, women and men would not be judged equally for their wrongdoings on the day of judgement for women didnt have enough wisdom!

1 hour ago, lola20 said:

As regards the deficiency in their Faith, it is their abstention from prayers and fasting during their menstrual period.

Women dont pray or fast during this time for it is God's order so how can obeying God mean deficiency in faith?

This also questions the accuracy and authenticity of this narration.

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31 minutes ago, lola20 said:

Then why does it instruct them to do it in the Quran? Seriously, in what situation (other than self defense) is it ok for a man to beat up his wife? Even if she's cheating on him, even if she "flaunts her adultery" it is STILL not okay

You obviously didn’t read the surah to understand the context. 

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22 minutes ago, yasahebalzaman.313 said:

You're Overlapping subjects sister. You might have had a bad experience with Islam. 

Who said it is even close to acceptable living with a bad husband and flirting around having no self respect and dignity?

I'm quoting imam ali and you're quoting Dr Phil? We're clearly not on the same level of arguments.

Yeah, I was just trying to say jealousy isn't always a negative thing like you've demonstrated. Take a step down from your high horse thinking your "argument" is somehow better (didn't even realize we were arguing?) just because you quoted Imam Ali.

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15 minutes ago, yasahebalzaman.313 said:

I've been told that imam ali(as) made this speech when aisha waged a war against him. And since it made sense to me i didnt do a research on it. Lol

The oldest books in which this narration is mentioned are:

1. Ikhtisas اختصاص and al-Khisal الخصال; the narration above in these 2 books are narrated by men some of whom are unreliable people.

2. المسترشد....which doesnt bring any sanad for this narration

3. الرسائل ....which is not available (it doesnt exist)

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25 minutes ago, yasahebalzaman.313 said:

You're Overlapping subjects sister. You might have had a bad experience with Islam. 

Who said it is even close to acceptable living with a bad husband and flirting around having no self respect and dignity?

I'm quoting imam ali and you're quoting Dr Phil? We're clearly not on the same level of arguments.

many men on this forum and many scholars have said it's acceptable and women who don't put up with it are prideful.

A scholar who came out of Najaf from studying under Ayotallah Sistani actually said this to me.

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31 minutes ago, yasahebalzaman.313 said:

I've been told that imam ali(as) made this speech when aisha waged a war against him. And since it made sense to me i didnt do a research on it. Lol

Yeah so if this is an authentic narration it means Imam Ali took one example of one woman in history and determined that all women are evil from it.

Sound familiar? Eve the original sinner.

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19 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

You obviously didn’t read the surah to understand the context. 

I have read this sura, surat an nisaa, in Arabic and in English, multiple times and exensively and have asked about these very specific verses I'm talking about and have only had scholars and family members reaffirm the inherent sexism in it.

Stop assuming I don't know anything about Islam or the "context." I know more than you think.

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4 minutes ago, lola20 said:

I have read this sura, surat an nisaa, in Arabic and in English, multiple times and exensively and have asked about these very specific verses I'm talking about and have only had scholars and family members reaffirm the inherent sexism in it.

Stop assuming I don't know anything about Islam or the "context." I know more than you think.

You are clouded by your negative experiences with men. You see Islam through your own negative experiences.

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2 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

You are clouded by your negative experiences with men. You see Islam through your own negative experiences.

You probably wouldn't be saying this if I was a Christian woman talking about Christianity.

Why does Islam get treated differently? Why is everyone so quick to shut down legitimate criticism of certain aspects of the doctrine perpetuating abuse?

My experiences alone say a lot about a pattern of using Islamic doctrine against women.

There's a problem and everyone immediately jumps to shut down criticism of Islam and brushing aside valid negative experiences.

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6 minutes ago, lola20 said:

You probably wouldn't be saying this if I was a Christian woman talking about Christianity.

Why does Islam get treated differently? Why is everyone so quick to shut down legitimate criticism of certain aspects of the doctrine perpetuating abuse?

My experiences alone say a lot about a pattern of using Islamic doctrine against women.

There's a problem and everyone immediately jumps to shut down criticism of Islam and brushing aside valid negative experiences.

No, I would be saying that even if you were a Christian talking about Christianity. 

You're confusing culture with religion. You're confusing Middle Eastern men with what Islam says men should be like. You're confusing abusive men with Islam, a religion that does not promote abuse, instead, insists to treat your spouse and family with the utmost respect. 

I'm not brushing aside negative experiences. Do not base Islam on negative experiences. Most people are not following Islam properly. It's not Islam's fault people treat others like crap - THEY, the people, decide how to treat others. 

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@lola20 My father has terrible akhlaq and treats us so abrasively and is emotionally and mentally abusive. Does that mean I should write off Islam based on how my father treats us? Of course not. 

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2 hours ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

@lola20 My father has terrible akhlaq and treats us so abrasively and is emotionally and mentally abusive. Does that mean I should write off Islam based on how my father treats us? Of course not. 

I understand what you are saying.

I haven't written off Islam (completely)

My point is things like this:

Quote

عن أبي جعفر ( عليه السلام ) قال : غيرة النساء الحسد والحسد هو أصل الكفر ، إن النساء إذا غرن غضبن واذا غضبن كفرن الا المسلمات منهن

.قال أمير المؤمنين ( عليه السلام ) غيرة المرأة كفر وغيرة الرجل ايمان

.عن أبي جعفر ( عليه السلام ) قال : ان الله لم يجعل الغيرة للنساء وانما جعل الغيرة للرجال... وانما تغار المنكرات منهن فأما المؤمنات فلا

And MANY other parts of Islam have been historically and CONTINUE to be weaponized against Muslim women today!!!!!

Everyone can stop pointing to just MY experiences now, I'm talking about a greater issue here.

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4 hours ago, lola20 said:

Then why does it instruct them to do it in the Quran? Seriously, in what situation (other than self defense) is it ok for a man to beat up his wife? Even if she's cheating on him, even if she "flaunts her adultery" it is STILL not okay

@lola20 I don't know what your on about. The wife beating verse in no way instruct any man to casually beat his wife up.

"And if you fear dissension between the two, send an arbitrator from his people and an arbitrator from her people. If they both desire reconciliation, Allah will cause it between them. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Acquainted [with all things]"(4:35)

This verse comes directly after the previous verse (not sure why Islamophobes never use this one). Allah knows that the best option is to appoint to judges to cause harmony between the husband and the wife - to avoid any potential trouble. This is the most civilized way which applies to all of us - if things are getting out of hand.

The verse before this one has a special context which doesn't apply to us, as clearly no Prophet(as) or any Imams(as) ever even showed glimpses of instances where they beat their wife or said "beating wife is okay".

We claim to follow the Sunnah or Imams(as) then why do we want to interpret this verse to our flawed desires?

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9 hours ago, lola20 said:

Yeah, I was just trying to say jealousy isn't always a negative thing like you've demonstrated. Take a step down from your high horse thinking your "argument" is somehow better (didn't even realize we were arguing?) just because you quoted Imam Ali.

If God states that jealousy is a bad thing for women then it is a bad thing. Try understanding the reasons behind this instead of rejecting it. I didn't say we're arguing, arguments can be facts or situations etc.. I do think imam ali knows perfectly well about the psychological state of human beings much much more than dr phill, I studied 5 years modern psychology, they are not even close to the psychology that ahlulbayt describes.

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16 hours ago, yasahebalzaman.313 said:

.

@andres There is a lot of reasons why a man can marry another women, but in our religion a man cannot marry a second wife unless he treats them justly. Meaning each of them get to have a car, a house, a cellphone, etc... Equally, and the quran states whoever doesn't do that is already making a sin. The other reasons can lessen the societal problems, for example if a women is widowed and doesn't have anyone, or if a women has children and her husband dies and she can't feed them, or if a one's wife can't have children for a reason that is only known by God, etc... And if you think about it this concept can be used as several motifs for a lot of things in a couples relationship.

Of course I'm not saying a man can abuse this ruling that God has placed in our religion, I do think that nowadays a man who appreciates his wife, have a healthy marriage life and who respects himself and the image of his wife, who is busy worshiping God and sustaining his family, he wouldn't have reasons to look elsewhere to find comfort and pleasure.

You are speaking about women who are totally economically dependent on their husband. Women that may be uneducated, does not work and in some families must wear Burka. Kind of slaves. Taleban land and some Arab and African cultures. Womens subordinate position in such societies may make sense, but it is not a healthy society.

In Iran women  today are well educated and capable of taking care of themself. So also in my country. I was actually wondering which reasons could make such women allow their hushand to take a second wife. Maybe you dont live in a "modern" nation?

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16 hours ago, yasahebalzaman.313 said:

 or if a one's wife can't have children for a reason that is only known by God, etc...

In old days women was believed to be the cause of infertility. Today we know it can just as well be husbands "fault". In infertile man can have no children no matter of number of wives he marries. The wives need another man

 

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9 minutes ago, andres said:

You are speaking about women who are totally economically dependent on their husband. Women that may be uneducated, does not work and in some families must wear Burka. Kind of slaves. Taleban land and some Arab and African cultures. Womens subordinate position in such societies may make sense, but it is not a healthy society.

In Iran women  today are well educated and capable of taking care of themself. So also in my country. I was actually wondering which reasons could make such women allow their hushand to take a second wife. Maybe you dont live in a "modern" nation?

I don't expect you to understand why a women would let her husband to marry some other women. You are very far from understanding the very fundamental principles of islam so of course you won't understand a much deeper issue.

So explain what's a modern nation to you? You do realize that almost all christian husbands cheat on their wives at some point in marriage life? To defend your point of view you took the situation i presented to the extreme so it could make sense. Yes there are women who don't wanna work and they are very well educated.

https://www.citi.io/2015/08/20/the-10-best-party-cities-in-the-world/

We're Number 6. Of course I'm not proud of my country being westernized more and more every year and becoming more and more dumb and driven by the shallowness of the societies in the west.

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45 minutes ago, andres said:

In old days women was believed to be the cause of infertility. Today we know it can just as well be husbands "fault". In infertile man can have no children no matter of number of wives he marries. The wives need another man

Some years back when I started working in ob/gyn there was a couple who used to come to us for antenatal checkups. It was their first baby. Always accompanying  the husband and wife was another woman roughly the same age as wife. She used to be very caring towards the pregnant lady helping her up etc. I assumed she would be a sister in law or cousin but I later came to know she was the first wife! After trying unsuccessfully to conceive for years(do not know the exact reason for the couple's infertility) she got her husband married to her best friend who due to certain family circumstances was facing difficulties in finding a good match. The two lived in the same house and got along well. The couple had their first child, a baby girl, which the second wife gave to the first to raise as her own.

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Jealousy is bad. All ahadith that go against the Quran are false. Even if it has a golden chain from all imams (as) up to the prophet (saws). Never once has jealousy been a good thing in the Quran, whatever gender. Peace.

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