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yasahebalzaman.313

When the women is jealous

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السلام عليكم

It is said that the jealousy of a man comes from protection, But the jealousy of a women is Kufr and comes from Envy. It is said by ahlulbayt (as) that Envy eats faith like the fire eats wood.

I believe that this is some kind of a Calamity especially for women that should be controlled, because no matter how much you evolve spiritually and religiously, if it comes a time and you feel a tiny bit of this deceitful emotions it will be as if all of your hard work is gone to the trash.

Even if your husband doesn't wanna get married to another women in your lifetime, this feeling is innate in ourselves and should be worked on. To be able to reach a higher stance we should eliminate this devious state of mind.

My question for you sisters is how you manage to control and overcome the feeling of jealousy when your husband for example decides to marry another women? Or when a women approaches your man... etc.

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16 hours ago, yasahebalzaman.313 said:

It is said that the jealousy of a man comes from protection, But the jealousy of a women is Kufr and comes from Envy. It is said by ahlulbayt (as) that Envy eats faith like the fire eats wood

Salam the true hadith is opposite of this

امير المؤمنين عليٌّ عليه‏السلام :

خِيارُ خِصالِ النِّساءِ شِرارُ خِصالِ الرِّجالِ: الزَّهوُ ، والجُبنُ ، والبُخلُ ؛ فإذا كانتِ المَرأةُ مَزهُوَّةً لَم تُمَكِّنْ مِن نَفسِها ، وإذا كانت بَخيلَةً حَفِظَت مالَها ومالَ بَعلِها ، وإذا كانت جَبانَةً فَرِقَت مِن كُلِّ شَيءٍ يَعرِضُ لَها .

 

Hadith n. 234

234. Amir al-mu'minin, peace be upon him, said: The best traits of women are those which are the worst traits of men, namely: vanity, cowardice and miserliness. Thus, since the woman is vain, she will not allow anyone access to herself; since she is miserly, she will preserve her own property and the property of her husband; and since she is weak-hearted, she will be frightened with everything that befalls her.

234. وقال عليه السلام : خِيَارُ خِصَالِ النِّسَاءِ شِرَارُ خِصَالِ الرِّجَالِ: الزَّهْوُ وَالْجُبْنُ وَالْبُخْلُ، فَإذَا كَانَتِ الْمَرْأَةُ مَزْهُوَّةً لَمْ تُمَكِّنْ مِنْ نَفْسِهَا، وَإِذَا كَانَتْ بِخِيلَةً حَفِظَتْ مَالَهَا وَمَالَ بَعْلِهَا، وَإِذَا كَانَتْ جَبَانَةً فَرِقَتْ مِنْ كُلِّ شِيْءٍ يَعْرِضُ لَهَا.

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/selections-sayings-and-preaching-amir-al-muminin-ali#hadith-n-234

Edited by Hameedeh
[Mod Note: Moderators can reduce the size of excessively large fonts to a standard size of 14.]

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Yeah I agree over the things you said but this is not related to my question.

Here are some hadiths from ahlulbayt that talks about jealousy.

.عن أبي جعفر ( عليه السلام ) قال : غيرة النساء الحسد والحسد هو أصل الكفر ، إن النساء إذا غرن غضبن واذا غضبن كفرن الا المسلمات منهن

.قال أمير المؤمنين ( عليه السلام ) غيرة المرأة كفر وغيرة الرجل ايمان

.عن أبي جعفر ( عليه السلام ) قال : ان الله لم يجعل الغيرة للنساء وانما جعل الغيرة للرجال... وانما تغار المنكرات منهن فأما المؤمنات فلا

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15 hours ago, yasahebalzaman.313 said:

Yeah I agree over the things you said but this is not related to my question.

Here are some hadiths from ahlulbayt that talks about jealousy.

.عن أبي جعفر ( عليه السلام ) قال : غيرة النساء الحسد والحسد هو أصل الكفر ، إن النساء إذا غرن غضبن واذا غضبن كفرن الا المسلمات منهن

.قال أمير المؤمنين ( عليه السلام ) غيرة المرأة كفر وغيرة الرجل ايمان

.عن أبي جعفر ( عليه السلام ) قال : ان الله لم يجعل الغيرة للنساء وانما جعل الغيرة للرجال... وانما تغار المنكرات منهن فأما المؤمنات فلا

Interesting topic, could you please translate those hadiths? 

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1 hour ago, IbnSina said:

Interesting topic, could you please translate those hadiths? 

I will translate them based on my own knowledge of terminology.

1 hour ago, yasahebalzaman.313 said:

 

.عن أبي جعفر ( عليه السلام ) قال : غيرة النساء الحسد والحسد هو أصل الكفر ، إن النساء إذا غرن غضبن واذا غضبن كفرن الا المسلمات منهن

.قال أمير المؤمنين ( عليه السلام ) غيرة المرأة كفر وغيرة الرجل ايمان

.عن أبي جعفر ( عليه السلام ) قال : ان الله لم يجعل الغيرة للنساء وانما جعل الغيرة للرجال... وانما تغار المنكرات منهن فأما المؤمنات فلا

Imam al baker(As) says: jealousy of women is envy, and envy is the origin of kufr, the women if they got jealous they will get angry and if they get angry they will do kufr, except for the true muslims among them.

Imam ali says(as): jealousy of women is infidelity and the jealousy of men is Faith.

Imam al baker (as): God didn't create jealousy for women, He, Almighty, created it for men... Only the ignorant of women get jealous but the true believers don't.

 

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1 hour ago, yasahebalzaman.313 said:

Yeah I agree over the things you said but this is not related to my question.

Here are some hadiths from ahlulbayt that talks about jealousy.

.عن أبي جعفر ( عليه السلام ) قال : غيرة النساء الحسد والحسد هو أصل الكفر ، إن النساء إذا غرن غضبن واذا غضبن كفرن الا المسلمات منهن

.قال أمير المؤمنين ( عليه السلام ) غيرة المرأة كفر وغيرة الرجل ايمان

.عن أبي جعفر ( عليه السلام ) قال : ان الله لم يجعل الغيرة للنساء وانما جعل الغيرة للرجال... وانما تغار المنكرات منهن فأما المؤمنات فلا

 

The first hadith

From Abu Ja'far(may peace be upon him). He says: 

A women does not become angry from jealously except that her jealousy is similar to disbelief(in God)

Surely when a women becomes angry with jelousy, her jelousy takes her outside the religion

(this is an approximate translation)

The Second Hadith

From Amir Al Mumineen (Imam Ali, may peace be upon him). 

The jelousy of women is disbelief (kufr) while the jelousy of men is Faith (Iman)

The third hadith

(If someone else can please translate, I am running short on time)

 

But these hadith do not have rijal or a reference from a book. So I'm not sure where they came from. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

But these hadith do not have rijal or a reference from a book. So I'm not sure where they came from.


1) نهج البلاغة، الحكمة 124. Nahjul balagha wisdom 124

2) فروع الكافي 5 : 505 باب غيرة النساء من كتاب النكاح. Furu' l kafi

3) فروع الكافي 5 : 504. Furu' l kafi

4) تحف العقول : 87. Tihaful 'Ukoul

5) شرح نهج البلاغة 18 / 312 Explanation of nahjul balagha

There are a lot of hadiths from ahlulbayt speaking about the jealousy of women.

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1 hour ago, starlight said:

Salam,

1. We being muslims follow rules of Allah and believe that there is goodness for us in every command of His, some of which might be obvious but others that we cannot readily see.A man having the permissibility to have multiple wives is one of them, so being muslims we should believe that there should be goodness in it for us.

2. The woman should keep in mind that being jealous is not going to achieve anything. It's a very negative emotion and leads to other negative emotions like anger, hatred and last but not the least suspicion. Together these eventually turn a woman into bitter person. So, if a woman does not kurb her feelings of jealousy and hence anger, she will only manage in driving her husband farther away because stating simply, which man would want to spend time in company of a bad tempered woman.This would be opposite to what she wanted to achieve.

3. The goal of a human's life is to develop a love for Allah in his heart, a love that supersedes all others and that includes love for one's husband. So, if a woman finds herself in a situation where her husband has another woman(wife or girlfriend) a woman should remind herself that the primary objective of her existence is not to enter into a competition for her husband's attention with other women but to strive hard to achieve a closeness to Allah. If she manages to elevate herself spiritually the problems that come with dunya will seem trivial to her.

4. I don't believe any human in this world apart from the infallibles(as) is capable of completely ridding oneself of negative emotions and acts.We can only try our best. In the akhira we won't get judged for the results but for the sincerity of our efforts. So if a woman tries her best to not get jealous and more importantly not let her jealous feelings translate into actions like negligence of her husband's rights, creating misunderstandings or harming the people involved, I believe Allahسُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى will be merciful enough to not waste her good deeds for the flashes of jealousy that take over her mind from time to time.

I totally agree, these thoughts can be used as weapons each time we feel such feelings. The tricky part is when it comes to institutionalizing the thoughts you mentioned into our systematic way of thinking. It's not easy at all.

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Wife and Husband’s Jealousy

Imam Ali (AS) has been reported as saying: “The wife’s zeal is (from) disbelief and the husband’s zeal is (from) faith.”17

Imam Sadiq (AS) has been reported by Jabir as saying: “God has made Jihad obligatory on men and on women. As for the jihad of man, man is to offer his properties and blood in the way of Allah. And as for the jihad of woman, womanis to be patient with her husband’s harms and jealousy.”

https://www.al-islam.org/taqwa-piety-advice-ahl-al-bayt-sayyed-hussain-tooyserkani/46-wife-and-husbands-duties#wife-and-husbands-jealousy

 

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I remember watching a drama, in which husband was having an affair but his wife didn't become jealous at all. The husband asked his wife: "why don't you ever become jealous"? The wife replied, "I had a lover before getting married to you, When he could't get married to me, he died because of grief. When a woman gets such unconditional love, she doesn't desire any more love, that's why I don't become jealous watching you with other women". 

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These narrations are not authentic.

 

( باب غيرة النساء )

١ ـ عدة من أصحابنا ، عن أحمد بن محمد بن خالد ، عن عثمان بن عيسى ، عن بعض أصحابه ، عن أبي عبد الله عليه‌السلام قال ليس الغيرة إلا للرجال وأما النساء فإنما ذلك منهن حسد والغيرة للرجال ولذلك حرم الله على النساء إلا زوجها وأحل للرجال أربعا وإن الله أكرم أن يبتليهن بالغيرة ويحل للرجال معها ثلاثا.

٢ ـ عنه ، عن محمد بن علي ، عن محمد بن الفضيل ، عن سعد بن الجلاب ، عن أبي عبد الله عليه‌السلام قال إن الله عز وجل لم يجعل الغيرة للنساء وإنما تغار المنكرات منهن فأما المؤمنات فلا إنما جعل الله الغيرة للرجال لأنه أحل للرجل أربعا وما ملكت يمينه ولم يجعل للمرأة إلا زوجها فإذا أرادت معه غيره كانت عند الله زانية. قال ورواه القاسم بن يحيى ، عن جده الحسن بن راشد ، عن أبي بكر الحضرمي ، عن أبي عبد الله عليه‌السلام إلا أنه قال فإن بغت معه غيره.

 

ــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــ

الحديث الأول : مرسل.

الحديث الثاني : ضعيف.

مرآت العقول

 

Edited by shadow_of_light

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There's a term for this type of psychological abuse. It's called gaslighting: 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/here-there-and-everywhere/201701/11-warning-signs-gaslighting

Quote

It is said that the jealousy of a man comes from protection, But the jealousy of a women is Kufr and comes from Envy.

This is the saying I have seen used the most by abusers against their wives when I worked in domestic violence services. My dad even used it against my mother when he secretly married again. 

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1 hour ago, lola20 said:

There's a term for this type of psychological abuse. It's called gaslighting: 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/here-there-and-everywhere/201701/11-warning-signs-gaslighting

This is the saying I have seen used the most by abusers against their wives when I worked in domestic violence services. My dad even used it against my mother when he secretly married again. 

There is a difference between what you can do and what you should do.

If you want to know what you should do and what is right to do, see how the Imams(as) treated their wives, not your father.

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3 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

There is a difference between what you can do and what you should do.

If you want to know what you should do and what is right to do, see how the Imams(as) treated their wives, not your father.

But it's not just my father. It's literally every Muslim man who is a polygamist that I have ever known. There is a problem with the doctrine and quotes like these: 

Quote

It is said that the jealousy of a man comes from protection, But the jealousy of a women is Kufr and comes from Envy. 

being weaponized against Muslim women, making them believe they are crazy and their feelings are invalid and worst of all: "kufr"

This quote is an example of how certain Islamic doctrine is used to perpetuate psychological abuse against women in the Muslim community. 

Edited by lola20

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Do not look at the islam that muslims created. Rather, look at the islam that ahlulbayt brought to this world. It is perfection and salvation in this world and the next. So don't unwisely oppose a quotation said by Imam Ali Bin Abi Talib(as) just because you can't understand the apparent and the latent meaning behind it based on your own personal experience.

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There is envy, then there is jealousy (which drives you to take action against the person you are jealous of.)

The first is a normal emotion - the other is destructive. 

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2 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

There is envy, then there is jealousy (which drives you to take action against the person you are jealous of.)

The first is a normal emotion - the other is destructive. 

Yeah - when it comes to polygamy, especially when it's done behind your back, I will not begrudge a woman her jealousy or her anger or her feelings of betrayal. She is absolutely entitled to feel those things and we all need to stop invalidating this reaction and making women think they're crazy or wrong for feeling that way. It's gaslighting. 

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25 minutes ago, lola20 said:

Yeah - when it comes to polygamy, especially when it's done behind your back, I will not begrudge a woman her jealousy or her anger or her feelings of betrayal. She is absolutely entitled to feel those things and we all need to stop invalidating this reaction and making women think they're crazy or wrong for feeling that way. It's gaslighting. 

I’m not gaslighting anyone. Nor did I say that woman are crazy for being jealous, stop putting words in my mouth and twisting what I said to make it sound something entirely different.

Im not talking about woman whose husbands get multiple wives. Those men have emotionally left their relationship by getting with other woman - they are not going to be any happier. Why would a woman have to sit with her feelings of jealousy when she can choose to leave a marriage and Allah made divorce halal?

Many woman would rather sit in a bad marriage “because she has no other options” and become jealous of another woman when she should be focusing on herself and her own happiness—by becoming independent and leaving a man who doesn’t know her worth. 

 

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1 hour ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

I’m not gaslighting anyone. Nor did I say that woman are crazy for being jealous, stop putting words in my mouth and twisting what I said to make it sound something entirely different.

Im not talking about woman whose husbands get multiple wives. Those men have emotionally left their relationship by getting with other woman - they are not going to be any happier. Why would a woman have to sit with her feelings of jealousy when she can choose to leave a marriage and Allah made divorce halal?

Many woman would rather sit in a bad marriage “because she has no other options” and become jealous of another woman when she should be focusing on herself and her own happiness—by becoming independent and leaving a man who doesn’t know her worth. 

I'm not talking about you specifically, I'm talking about this topic in general within the context of this thread and that specific quote. Didn't say anything about you. 

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14 hours ago, lola20 said:

But it's not just my father. It's literally every Muslim man who is a polygamist that I have ever known. There is a problem with the doctrine and quotes like these: 

Perfect interpretation and practice of the written doctrine and quotes is done by the Imams(as), so unless you can find a scenario were they oppressed or mistreated their wives unjustly, the doctrine cannot be blamed, rather it is the people who misuse them who is to blame.

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Jealousy is equally as bad if it affects men, so I'm not exactly sure what "Jealousy of men comes from Faith" means. Maybe it is referring to some special group? 

Quran gives a beautiful example of how Prophet Yusuf's(as) brothers got jealous of him - their jealousy definitely didn't come from faith.

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

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50 minutes ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Jealousy is equally as bad if it affects men, so I'm not exactly sure what "Jealousy of men comes from Faith" means.

Protective jealousy (gheera) over their wives.

Edited by starlight

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@starlight @yasahebalzaman.313

MarshaAllah, I am very impressed with you sisters level of spiritual maturity. Getting close to Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى requires us to get far away from the great ideas we have of ourselves, our inflated egos, and that's what I see in your understandings of this subject.

May Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى bless your souls!

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3 hours ago, IbnSina said:

Perfect interpretation and practice of the written doctrine and quotes is done by the Imams(as), so unless you can find a scenario were they oppressed or mistreated their wives unjustly, the doctrine cannot be blamed, rather it is the people who misuse them who is to blame.

Then it's a good idea to abandon or reform the doctrine altogether since according to you no one can practice it perfectly except the Imams

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Just now, lola20 said:

Then it's a good idea to abandon or reform the doctrine altogether since according to you no one can practice it perfectly except the Imams

Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى doesn't demand perfection from us only efforts to constantly improve our faith and actions. 

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28 minutes ago, lola20 said:

Then it's a good idea to abandon or reform the doctrine altogether since according to you no one can practice it perfectly except the Imams

Is there anything we, you and me, can practice perfectly at all to begin with? If it was not for the mercy of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى we would be lost long ago.

See sister starlights reply; have we honored Allahsسُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى demand of efforts by us to constantly improve our faith and actions? Or have we made ourselves busy with other things? Such as oppressing, abusing and deceiving each other for tiny momentary gains? Or rather what we in our foolishness might perceive as gains, what will these "gains" tell about us on the day of questioning?

What is right and what is wrong, as well as the etiquette, has been made very clear by the Imams(as), whether you or anyone ells respects and follows that or not is up to you, if you do not, is Islam to blame for your own shortcomings then?

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On 2018-03-05 at 8:17 AM, yasahebalzaman.313 said:

السلام عليكم

It is said that the jealousy of a man comes from protection, But the jealousy of a women is Kufr and comes from Envy. It is said by ahlulbayt (as) that Envy eats faith like the fire eats wood.

I believe that this is some kind of a Calamity especially for women that should be controlled, because no matter how much you evolve spiritually and religiously, if it comes a time and you feel a tiny bit of this deceitful emotions it will be as if all of your hard work is gone to the trash.

Even if your husband doesn't wanna get married to another women in your lifetime, this feeling is innate in ourselves and should be worked on. To be able to reach a higher stance we should eliminate this devious state of mind.

My question for you sisters is how you manage to control and overcome the feeling of jealousy when your husband for example decides to marry another women? Or when a women approaches your man... etc.

I am not a sister, nor am I a Muslim. I cannot think of any circumstance that my wife would accept me marrying a second wife, (or me accepting her marrying a second man). Just curious to know which circumstance(s) could make you accept this, or maybe even be in favour of?

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26 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

Is there anything we, you and me, can practice perfectly at all to begin with? If it was not for the mercy of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى we would be lost long ago.

See sister starlights reply; have we honored Allahsسُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى demand of efforts by us to constantly improve our faith and actions? Or have we made ourselves busy with other things? Such as oppressing, abusing and deceiving each other for tiny momentary gains? Or rather what we in our foolishness might perceive as gains, what will these "gains" tell about us on the day of questioning?

What is right and what is wrong, as well as the etiquette, has been made very clear by the Imams(as), whether you or anyone ells respects and follows that or not is up to you, if you do not, is Islam to blame for your own shortcomings then?

It's fascinating to me that you and others are dismissing criticism and even defending parts of doctrine that are rooted in a history of enslaving and mistreating women. 

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12 minutes ago, andres said:

I am not a sister, nor am I a Muslim. I cannot think of any circumstance that my wife would accept me marrying a second wife, (or me accepting her marrying a second man). Just curious to know which circumstance(s) could make you accept this, or maybe even be in favour of?

Do you know how many german guys had multiple wives after WW2?

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10 hours ago, lola20 said:

It's fascinating to me that you and others are dismissing criticism and even defending parts of doctrine that are rooted in a history of enslaving and mistreating women. 

In short:

Can you find a case were the Imams(as) mistreated or oppressed their wives unjustly?

If not, you have no argument.

Oh, and while on the subject of mistreating women based on the doctrine as if its the doctrines fault:

.....#MeToo.

Much civilized, very modern, so much better, no doctrine to blame, wow!

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20 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

In short:

Can you find a case were the Imams(as) mistreated or oppressed their wives unjustly?

If not, you have no argument.

 

Oh, and while on the subject of mistreating women based on the doctrine as if its the doctrines fault:

.....#MeToo.

Much civilized, very modern, so much better, no doctrine to blame, wow!

You have already said in PM there's no evidence that can convince you that the Prophet mistreated women, even when it's very clear he enslaved non Muslim women after they watched their husbands and fathers die at the hands of his own armies, even when he married (keeping in mind marriage means sex) a 9 year old girl, an undisputed fact in our history, even when the Quran says a woman's testimony is worth half that of a man's, even when the Quran says it's okay for men to beat up their wives, even when women are only granted 1/3 inheritance and the man is entitled to 2, even when Imam Ali stated women are deficient in faith, shares, and intelligence. 

This is just the historical evidence I can state off the top of my head. I'm sure there is a wealth of more evidence I can find, and even more so that I bet was edited out of history completely. 

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Doesn't Islam say that before you give advice to others, you should act upon your advice? The sisters who are telling women to not be jealous, are they part of polygamous marriages and are they proving that they are not jealous? When I was married, I was jealous of a lot of women, who were not my ex-husband's wives, but they did interfere in my life a lot. My ex-husband wanted me to invite them to our house and expected me to give gifts to them. He also constantly compared me to them and called me ugly and told me to become like them. That's why I was jealous of them. Now that I am divorced Alhamdulillah, no one compares me to other women or forces me to act like a slave to other women. That's why I don't get jealous of other women. Does this mean I can start lecturing all the married women to not become jealous? 

Edited by rkazmi33

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