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In the Name of God بسم الله

Treatment of Bibi Fatima (sa) by the Caliphs

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Commiserations to the Muslims ummah  on the death anniversary of Bibi Fatima (sa).

 

Bibi Fatima (sa) was a lady like no other in Islam. She was a lady of many virtues. Through a deep study of the life of Bibi Fatima Zehra (sa), one can slightly understand her exalted human personality. She is similar to her father, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in terms of her divine and humane character. Her similarity to her father is a truth that can be easily understood through her father's sayings about her. As the narrator quotes, Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) came out while holding the hand of Lady Fatimah Zahra (pbuh) in his hand. He said:

"(For) him, who does not know her, she is Fatimah, the daughter of Muhammad, she is a part of me, she is my soul, which is (located) between my two sides. Certainly, him who harms her has harmed me; and him who harms me has indeed harmed Allah."

 

It is no denying that the Prophet loved Bibi Fatima (sa) and she held a very special place for him. The behavior of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) toward his daughter Bibi Fatima Al-Zahra (sa) was special. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) showed unique respect to his dear daughter; whenever Fatima Al-Zahra (sa) came to see him. For instance, there is a famous hadith from Aisha which reads: “I didn’t see a person more similar to the Prophet (pbuh) than Fatima (as) who looked like him in appearance, face, brightness, behavior and manners. When Fatima (as) came to see the Prophet (pbuh), he got to his feet and advanced toward her enthusiastically.” In some hadiths from the same narrator [Aisha] we read: “He kissed Hazrat Fatima (as), took her hand, and invited her to sit in his place.” This reveals the high status of Hazrat Fatima (as).

 

The treatment of Bibi Fatima (sa) by the first 2 caliphs is a very shameful event in the history of Islam. Now, let us see how the Muslim caliphs treated her just days after the death of the Prophet (pbuh).

 

1st Caliph:

Fadak which was in Bibi Fatima Zehra's (sa) possession was taken away from her and she had to fight for her right which again was denied to her. When she went to ask for Fadak which was rightfully hers to be returned to her; she had to wait among-st the people to be heard and when heard, she was insulted. Compare this to the respect she had during the time of the Prophet makes you wonder if these so called protectors of Islam really had been following the sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh).

 

What should surprise any Muslim the most is the following statement by Abu Bakr:

“After the death (of Rasulullah), Fatima raised the issue of Fadak that he (the Prophet) had granted it to her, Abu Bakr said: ‘…I don’t know if you are telling the truth, and I can’t judge according to it (your claim).’ Then Umm Ayman and a male servant testified for her. Abu Bakr said: ‘bring forth another witness whose word is acceptable’.

Tafseer Kabeer, Volume 10 page 506

 

Abdullah bin Zubair narrated from his father that whenever Ayesha mentioned Fatima the daughter of the Prophet, she used to say: ‘I never saw someone more truthful than her apart from the one that produced her (her father).’

 Al-Mustadrak al-Hakim, Vol. 3, page 160 & 161

[Imam Al-HakIm said: ‘Sahih according to Muslim’s condition’ while Imam Dhahabi stated: ‘According to Muslim’s condition’.]

 

Given that the lady, whose truthfulness is being vouched for in the Quran and hadith, was told that her words were not credible and she was asked to produce witnesses. It is safe to conclude that doubting Bibi Zehra's (sa) words is no less than doubting the Quran. What becomes of a person who doubts the Quran?

 

 

2nd Caliph:

 

Now let's look at how Umar treated Bibi Zehra after the death of Prophet (pbuh).

 

Umar went to Bibi Fatimah's house and said:

"O’ daughter of the Prophet! I didn’t love anyone as much as I loved your father, nor anyone after him is more loving to me as you are. But I swear by Allah that if these people assemble here with you, then this love of mine would not prevent me from setting your house on fire."

Sunni references:

- History of Tabari, in the events of the year 11 AH

- al-Imamah wa al-Siyasah by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, beginning of the book, and pp 19-20

- Izalatul Khilafa, by Shah Waliullah Muhaddith Dehlavi, v2, p362

- Iqd al-Farid, by Ibn Abd Rabbah al-Malik, v2, chapter of Saqifah

 

Also it is reported that:

Umar said to Fatimah (who was behind the door of her house): "I know that the Prophet of God did not love any one more than you, but this will not stop me to carry out my decision. If these people stay in your house, I will burn the door in front of you."

Sunni reference: Kanz al-Ummal, v3, p140

 

In fact Shibli Numani himself testifies the above event in the following words:

"From Umar’s irritable and peevish temperament such an action on his part was not improbable."

Sunni reference: al-Faruq, by Shibli Numani, p44

 

It is also reported that:

Abu Bakr said (on his death bed): "I wish I had not searched for Fatimah’s house, and had not sent men to harass her, though it would have caused a war if her house would have continued to be used as a shelter."

Sunni references:

- History of Ya’qubi, v2, pp 115-116

- Ansab Ashraf, by al-Baladhuri, v1, pp 582,586

 

The revered Sunni scholar, Abu Muhammad Abdullah Ibn Muslim Ibn Qutaybah Daynuri in his history of Caliphs known as "al-Imamah wa al- Siyasah”reported:

Umar asked for wood, and told those people inside the house: "I swear by Allah who has my soul in his hand, that if you do not come out, I will burn the house.” Someone told Umar that Fatimah was inside the house. Umar said: "So what! It doesn’t matter to me who is in the house.”

Sunni reference: al-Imamah wa al-Siyasah by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, pp 3,19-20

 

Another Sunni historian, al-Baladhuri, reported that:

Abu Bakr asked ‘Ali to support him, but ‘Ali refused, then Umar went toward the ‘Ali’s house with a burning torch. At the door he met Fatimah who said to him: "Do you intend to burn the door of my house?”Umar said: "Yes, because this act will strengthen the faith brought to us by your father."

Sunni reference: al-Ansab Ashraf, by al-Baladhuri, v1, pp 582,586

 

Also Jouhari in his book said: "Umar and a few Muslims went to the house of Fatimah to burn it down and to burn those who were in opposition.” Ibn Shahna said the same statement adding "to burn the house and inhabitants".

 

 

Conclusion:

Remember, the famous hadith of the Prophet about whoever hurts Bibi Fatima (sa):

"Fatimah is a part of me. Whoever makes her angry, makes me angry."

Sunni references:

- Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v5, Traditions #61 and #111

- Sahih Muslim, section of virtues of Fatimah, v4, pp 1904-5

 

Ibn Qutaybah in al Imamah wa al Siyasa page 14 records that:

“Fatima said ‘When I meet my father the Prophet (s), then I shall complain about the both of you (Abu Bakr and Umar), and said to Abu Bakr ‘By Allah I shall curse you after every Salat”.
 Al-Imamah wa al-Siyasa, Vol. 1, Page 14

 

So logical conclusion from the above traditions is that Bibi Fatima (sa) was treated unjustly, and that she was angry at Abu Bakr and Umar, which follows Allah and His prophet are angry at them according the above tradition in Sahih al-Bukhari.

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Commiserations to the Muslims ummah  on the death anniversary of Bibi Fatima (sa).   Bibi Fatima (sa) was a lady like no other in Islam. She was a lady of many virtues. Through a deep study

"Surely those who conceal the clear proofs and the guidance that We revealed after We made it clear for men in the Book, these it is whom Allah does curse, and those who curse do curse them." - [2:159

May Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى guide these brothers by humbling their hearts, I wish they would take their own hadiths seriously.

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18 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

@Wisdom007 what is funn in this post :angry:

Sorry but Above is funn post.......it made me laugh.

Your logical conclusion is not so much logic if you use unauthentic history books and then conclude it with authentic Hadith bukhari.

its really funny to see how hard you are trying.

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1 minute ago, Wisdom007 said:

Sorry but Above is funn post.......it made me laugh.

Your logical conclusion is not so much logic if you use unauthentic history books and then conclude it with authentic Hadith bukhari.

its really funny to see how hard you are trying.

Salam from where you understand that this is unauthentic or authentic History .

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6 minutes ago, Wisdom007 said:

Sorry but Above is funn post.......it made me laugh.

Your logical conclusion is not so much logic if you use unauthentic history books and then conclude it with authentic Hadith bukhari.

its really funny to see how hard you are trying.

so you admit the hadith is authentic

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9 minutes ago, Wisdom007 said:

Sorry but Above is funn post.......it made me laugh.

Your logical conclusion is not so much logic if you use unauthentic history books and then conclude it with authentic Hadith bukhari.

its really funny to see how hard you are trying.

its not fun to see how arrogantly clueless you are.. its fine to be ignorant for a while.. but to be so sure of yourself is childish.

if this issue was made up by shia, then how come you find relevant ahadith in sunni books.. why would they help perpetrate a "lie"

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Just now, kirtc said:

its not fun to see how arrogantly clueless you are.. its fine to be ignorant for a while.. but to be so sure of yourself is childish.

if this issue was made up by shia, then how come you find relevant ahadith in sunni books.. why would they help perpetrate a "lie"

Don’t be upset brother all I said was your using history books as evidence.

 

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Sermon 7: They have made Satan the master of their affairs...

About the hypocrites

ومن خطبة له (عليه السلام)

يذم فيها أتباع الشيطان

They1 have made Satan the master of their affairs, and he has taken them as partners. He has laid eggs and hatched them in their bosoms. He creeps and crawls in their laps. He sees through their eyes, and speaks with their tongues. In this way he has led them to sinfulness and adorned for them foul things like the action of one whom Satan has made partner in his domain and speaks untruth through his tongue.

اتَّخَذُوا الشَّيْطَانَ لاِمْرِهِمْ مِلاَكاً، وَاتَّخَذَهُمْ لَهُ أَشْرَاكاً، فَبَاضَ وَفَرَّخَ في صُدُورِهِمْ، وَدَبَّ وَدَرَجَ في حُجُورِهِمْ، فَنَظَرَ بِأَعْيُنِهِمْ، وَنَطَقَ بِأَلسِنَتِهِمْ، فَرَكِبَ بِهِمُ الزَّلَلَ، وَزَيَّنَ لَهُمُ الخَطَلَ، فِعْلَ مَنْ قَدْ شَرِكَهُ الشَّيْطَانُ في سُلْطَانِهِ، وَنَطَقَ بِالبَاطِلِ عَلى لِسَانِهِ!

Alternative Sources for Sermon 7

(1) Al-Zamakhshari, Rabi’, I, 109;

(2) Ibn al-'Athir, al-Nihayah, II, 50. (kh-t-l )

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-7-they-have-made-satan-master-their-affairs

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1 hour ago, Wisdom007 said:

Sorry but Above is funn post.......it made me laugh.

Your logical conclusion is not so much logic if you use unauthentic history books and then conclude it with authentic Hadith bukhari.

its really funny to see how hard you are trying.

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235035965-fadak/#comment-2897039

What conclusion will you draw here:

Person who challenged, does not believe in Allahسُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى? (33:33 & 3:61).

Person who challenged was not informed of the status as per Prophet Muhammad(pbuhahp) Hadith(Tradition)? ( (1) & (2) above)

Person who challenged was secretly informed(hadith was only known to him) by the prophet (you believe in)that he is to confiscate Fadaq after him, from his daughter???

Prophet ( you believe in ) did not inform his daughter that property is to be returned? (Hadith (2) will testify against this assumption)

Prophet ( you believe in ) again set up the Muslim Ummah for another fitna, because his directions were unclear or ambiguous or not existent at all in this matter ( like other important matter there was no direction left)?

Person who challenged was in the camp of “Book of Allahسُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى was enough” but utilized a secret weapon(Hadith Tradition) that he only heard the prophet(you belive in ) gave him, against the when the Book of Allahسُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى was quoted by the living Qur’an.

State is to confiscate a property which is in the possession of a person, State is to provide evidence?

No other qualified Jurist were available to rule on this case, and the State officer confiscated the property was the judge and the jury? (conflict of interest)

Both parties are supposedly  “granted “ paradise- but one is liar in this issue?

Was it political?

Was this the Masooma' way of Jihad against the Denier of Ghadir Khum?

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2 hours ago, S.M.H.A. said:

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235035965-fadak/#comment-2897039

What conclusion will you draw here:

Person who challenged, does not believe in Allahسُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى? (33:33 & 3:61).

Person who challenged was not informed of the status as per Prophet Muhammad(pbuhahp) Hadith(Tradition)? ( (1) & (2) above)

Person who challenged was secretly informed(hadith was only known to him) by the prophet (you believe in)that he is to confiscate Fadaq after him, from his daughter???

Prophet ( you believe in ) did not inform his daughter that property is to be returned? (Hadith (2) will testify against this assumption)

Prophet ( you believe in ) again set up the Muslim Ummah for another fitna, because his directions were unclear or ambiguous or not existent at all in this matter ( like other important matter there was no direction left)?

Person who challenged was in the camp of “Book of Allahسُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى was enough” but utilized a secret weapon(Hadith Tradition) that he only heard the prophet(you belive in ) gave him, against the when the Book of Allahسُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى was quoted by the living Qur’an.

State is to confiscate a property which is in the possession of a person, State is to provide evidence?

No other qualified Jurist were available to rule on this case, and the State officer confiscated the property was the judge and the jury? (conflict of interest)

Both parties are supposedly  “granted “ paradise- but one is liar in this issue?

Was it political?

Was this the Masooma' way of Jihad against the Denier of Ghadir Khum?

I believe it’s your own theory it’s your own thought of conclusion.

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Narrated Al-Miswar bin Makhrama:
Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "Fatima is a part of me, and he who makes her angry, makes me angry."

Reference     : Sahih al-Bukhari 3714
In-book reference     : Book 62, Hadith 64
USC-MSA web (English) reference     : Vol. 5, Book 57, Hadith 61
https://sunnah.com/bukhari/62/64


Narrated `Aisha:
(mother of the believers) After the death of Allah 's Apostle Fatima the daughter of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) asked Abu Bakr As-Siddiq to give her, her share of inheritance from what Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) had left of the Fai (i.e. booty gained without fighting) which Allah had given him. Abu Bakr said to her, "Allah's Apostle said, 'Our property will not be inherited, whatever we (i.e. prophets) leave is Sadaqa (to be used for charity)." Fatima, the daughter of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) got angry and stopped speaking to Abu Bakr, and continued assuming that attitude till she died. Fatima remained alive for six months after the death of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ). She used to ask Abu Bakr for her share from the property of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) which he left at Khaibar, and Fadak, and his property at Medina (devoted for charity). Abu Bakr refused to give her that property and said, "I will not leave anything Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) used to do, because I am afraid that if I left something from the Prophet's tradition, then I would go astray." (Later on) `Umar gave the Prophet's property (of Sadaqa) at Medina to `Ali and `Abbas, but he withheld the properties of Khaibar and Fadak in his custody and said, "These two properties are the Sadaqa which Allah's Apostle used to use for his expenditures and urgent needs. Now their management is to be entrusted to the ruler." (Az-Zuhri said, "They have been managed in this way till today.")
Reference     : Sahih al-Bukhari 3092, 3093
In-book reference     : Book 57, Hadith 2
USC-MSA web (English) reference     : Vol. 4, Book 53, Hadith 325
https://sunnah.com/bukhari/57/2

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Without any doubts:

According to sunni narrations seyyeda Fatima(as) was part of the Ahlul Kisa(as), this means she along with the others of Ahlul Kisa(as), were infallible, cleansed by Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى. Also seyyeda Fatima(as) is mentioned as the "best women of mankind are four" in which jannah became promised for her.

And without any doubts we can also confirm that according to sunni narrations seyyeda Fatima(as) was very very angry with abu bakr and umar close to her death.

 

Now a women which is among the best of four best women of mankind, who is mentioned in the holy Quran for being purified, was so angry at abu bakr and umar.

Who was on the side of haqq? One must be in the wrong.

What conclusion does you brain make based on the statements about the status of Seyyeda Fatima(as)? Would she, someone who is purified by Allahسُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى and among the best of mankind, be unjust? Or would she lie? Or would she wrong someone? 

Make the connection yourself, alhamdulillah Allahسُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى gave us all brains so that we may use them.

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10 hours ago, Wisdom007 said:

Sorry but Above is funn post.......it made me laugh.

Your logical conclusion is not so much logic if you use unauthentic history books and then conclude it with authentic Hadith bukhari.

its really funny to see how hard you are trying.

@Wisdom007 What is your point here? The conclusion stated above is based on what is written in your own books. If you don't like them that doesn't mean that they are not true. 

 

Aren't you aware of the fact that Bibi Fatima (sa) was angry with the first 2 caliphs? 

Do you deny that Fadak which was under her control was usurped from her? 

Or, are you denying that Umar took people to the house of Bibi Fatima (sa) and threatened to burn it down?

 

The behaviour of the Caliphs towards Bibi Fatima (sa) after the death of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) was shameful to say the least. I know you revere these personalities but that does not mean that you ignore the historical facts however uncomfortable they are to you. If you are truly a lover of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) then you would strive hard to find the truth and send laanah upon the killers of Bibi Fatima (sa).

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10 hours ago, Wisdom007 said:

Walaikum asalam 

brother all the books you used as your evidences before your conclusion are just history books.

you did use a genuine Hadith at your conclusion in the end of Sahih Bukhari, but that doesn’t defend you accusations either.

As Brother @shiaman14 has posted a couple of narrations from your beloved Sahih Bukhari book, what is your conclusion now?

Narrated Al-Miswar bin Makhrama:
Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "Fatima is a part of me, and he who makes her angry, makes me angry."


Narrated `Aisha:
(mother of the believers) After the death of Allah 's Apostle Fatima the daughter of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) asked Abu Bakr As-Siddiq to give her, her share of inheritance from what Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) had left of the Fai (i.e. booty gained without fighting) which Allah had given him. Abu Bakr said to her, "Allah's Apostle said, 'Our property will not be inherited, whatever we (i.e. prophets) leave is Sadaqa (to be used for charity)." Fatima, the daughter of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) got angry and stopped speaking to Abu Bakr, and continued assuming that attitude till she died. Fatima remained alive for six months after the death of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ). She used to ask Abu Bakr for her share from the property of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) which he left at Khaibar, and Fadak, and his property at Medina (devoted for charity). Abu Bakr refused to give her that property and said, "I will not leave anything Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) used to do, because I am afraid that if I left something from the Prophet's tradition, then I would go astray." (Later on) `Umar gave the Prophet's property (of Sadaqa) at Medina to `Ali and `Abbas, but he withheld the properties of Khaibar and Fadak in his custody and said, "These two properties are the Sadaqa which Allah's Apostle used to use for his expenditures and urgent needs. Now their management is to be entrusted to the ruler." (Az-Zuhri said, "They have been managed in this way till today.")
 

Please do the maths based on the 2 narrations mentioned above and use all your wisdom to provide us the conclusion?

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"Surely those who conceal the clear proofs and the guidance that We revealed after We made it clear for men in the Book, these it is whom Allah does curse, and those who curse do curse them." - [2:159]

The truth is very clear if one really wants to look for it. When you try to justify or deny the wrongdoings of the caliphs, even when their wrongdoings is evident in your own authentic books, it means you are concealing the truth.

May Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى guide the people of Ahl as-Sunnah to the straight path.

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2 hours ago, Hassan- said:

"Surely those who conceal the clear proofs and the guidance that We revealed after We made it clear for men in the Book, these it is whom Allah does curse, and those who curse do curse them." - [2:159]

The truth is very clear if one really wants to look for it. When you try to justify or deny the wrongdoings of the caliphs, even when their wrongdoings is evident in your own authentic books, it means you are concealing the truth.

May Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى guide the people of Ahl as-Sunnah to the straight path.

Yal'anuhum (far remove from mercy of Allah SWT) for those who conceal especially the teaching of Ahlul Bayt a.s., the history of Ahlul Bayt a.s., the sunnah/example or attitude on life of Ahlul Bayt a.s..

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Bro shiaman 

The word ANGER is only mentioned in the Hadith transmitted from Hazrat Aisha ra. It is not mentioned in the Hadith narrated from other companions like Hazrat Abu Huraira, Hazrat Um Hani, etc.

Further the hadith narrated from Hazrat Aisha ra is of two types, one type mentions the word “anger” while the other type does not mention “anger”. The hadith which mention the word “anger” are all narrated by Ibn Shahab Zehri [well known for his idraaj of statements].

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8 hours ago, yam_110 said:

As Brother @shiaman14 has posted a couple of narrations from your beloved Sahih Bukhari book, what is your conclusion now?

Narrated Al-Miswar bin Makhrama:
Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "Fatima is a part of me, and he who makes her angry, makes me angry."


Narrated `Aisha:
(mother of the believers) After the death of Allah 's Apostle Fatima the daughter of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) asked Abu Bakr As-Siddiq to give her, her share of inheritance from what Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) had left of the Fai (i.e. booty gained without fighting) which Allah had given him. Abu Bakr said to her, "Allah's Apostle said, 'Our property will not be inherited, whatever we (i.e. prophets) leave is Sadaqa (to be used for charity)." Fatima, the daughter of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) got angry and stopped speaking to Abu Bakr, and continued assuming that attitude till she died. Fatima remained alive for six months after the death of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ). She used to ask Abu Bakr for her share from the property of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) which he left at Khaibar, and Fadak, and his property at Medina (devoted for charity). Abu Bakr refused to give her that property and said, "I will not leave anything Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) used to do, because I am afraid that if I left something from the Prophet's tradition, then I would go astray." (Later on) `Umar gave the Prophet's property (of Sadaqa) at Medina to `Ali and `Abbas, but he withheld the properties of Khaibar and Fadak in his custody and said, "These two properties are the Sadaqa which Allah's Apostle used to use for his expenditures and urgent needs. Now their management is to be entrusted to the ruler." (Az-Zuhri said, "They have been managed in this way till today.")
 

Please do the maths based on the 2 narrations mentioned above and use all your wisdom to provide us the conclusion?

 

The word ANGER is only mentioned in the Hadith transmitted from Hazrat Aisha ra. It is not mentioned in the Hadith narrated from other companions like Hazrat Abu Huraira, Hazrat Um Hani, etc.

Further the hadith narrated from Hazrat Aisha ra is of two types, one type mentions the word “anger” while the other type does not mention “anger”. The hadith which mention the word “anger” are all narrated by Ibn Shahab Zehri [well known for his idraaj of statements].

 

so I guess your maths must be wrong especially if you are using not so solid formulas.

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8 hours ago, yam_110 said:

@Wisdom007 What is your point here? The conclusion stated above is based on what is written in your own books. If you don't like them that doesn't mean that they are not true. 

 

Aren't you aware of the fact that Bibi Fatima (sa) was angry with the first 2 caliphs? 

Do you deny that Fadak which was under her control was usurped from her? 

Or, are you denying that Umar took people to the house of Bibi Fatima (sa) and threatened to burn it down?

 

The behaviour of the Caliphs towards Bibi Fatima (sa) after the death of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) was shameful to say the least. I know you revere these personalities but that does not mean that you ignore the historical facts however uncomfortable they are to you. If you are truly a lover of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) then you would strive hard to find the truth and send laanah upon the killers of Bibi Fatima (sa).

1/ Not that I am aware of or any SUNNI is aware of.

2/ A big NO!

3/ fake story? Yes!

again your own conclusions based on not so solid evidence.

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8 hours ago, Hassan- said:

"Surely those who conceal the clear proofs and the guidance that We revealed after We made it clear for men in the Book, these it is whom Allah does curse, and those who curse do curse them." - [2:159]

The truth is very clear if one really wants to look for it. When you try to justify or deny the wrongdoings of the caliphs, even when their wrongdoings is evident in your own authentic books, it means you are concealing the truth.

May Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى guide the people of Ahl as-Sunnah to the straight path.

Truth is out there and EASILY available if you have a clear heart, “ALL CLEAR IN THE BOOK”, alhamdulillah.

may Allah swt guide us all on the straight path ahlu sunnah and ahlu tashayyu.

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11 minutes ago, Wisdom007 said:

Lol I don’t know, but you do use some unauthentic evidences as proofs maybe that’s a reason.

my question was why would there be unauthentic hadiths in sunni books about this issue.. 

can I ask you which book of hadith do you find to be trustworthy?

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4 minutes ago, kirtc said:

my question was why would there be unauthentic hadiths in sunni books about this issue.. 

can I ask you which book of hadith do you find to be trustworthy?

There is no unauthentic Hadith about the issue in HADITH books.......can’t say same for history books.

The point is history books are being used as authentic evidences where as the hadith being used for this issue doesnt really help especially the way you want it portrayed.

That is all.

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5 minutes ago, Wisdom007 said:

There is no unauthentic Hadith about the issue in HADITH books.......can’t say same for history books.

The point is history books are being used as authentic evidences where as the hadith being used for this issue doesnt really help especially the way you want it portrayed.

That is all.

I asked which book of hadith do you follow?

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