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In the Name of God بسم الله
yam_110

Treatment of Bibi Fatima (sa) by the Caliphs

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10 minutes ago, kirtc said:

what other word can fit in this context.. you are trying to prove you are right with an illogical excuse.. abu bakr took the land away from her so she was "pleased" with abu bakr until she died? if the word angry wasnt there the rest of the words are there.. so what is the meaning of the whole hadith?

someone told me not to bother but I usually do when i see some sort of intelligence.. but now im not too sure

Excuse? I ain’t looking for no proof of enmity between people, that’s your excuse no matter how illogical it sounds to you, you will believe it as can be seen by your posts even after being told that you can’t base conclusions on weak evidences.

That someone was spot on you shouldn’t have bothered, you arguments ain’t exactly intelligent either.

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16 minutes ago, Wisdom007 said:

Excuse? I ain’t looking for no proof of enmity between people, that’s your excuse no matter how illogical it sounds to you, you will believe it as can be seen by your posts even after being told that you can’t base conclusions on weak evidences.

That someone was spot on you shouldn’t have bothered, you arguments ain’t exactly intelligent either.

you escaped the question..  I asked what other word would fit in the hadith and what meaning would the hadith have.

even without the word angry, you can tell there was a dispute between the two. who was abu bakr to deny Fatima azahra a.s?

you cant escape the fact that there was a dispute over fadaq. 

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Just now, shiaman14 said:

So are you saying the hadith in SAHIH Bukhari is not authentic? So as it turns out, Bukhari is not SAHIH after all.

well worth a discussing but still doesn't change the fact that Fatima died "unhappy" with Abu Bakr which is the point of discussing here.

So Fatima (as) is not the Prophet's daughter any more? This just keeps getting better and better.

Yo do know that Fatima (as) is the Prophet's daughter. You do know that the Quran orders us to love her and here you are defending the person she died "unhappy" with.

This is sheer hypocrisy in the Sunni world. You wear short pants, grow long beards and chew miswak all over the world thinking you are following the seerah of the Prophet (saw) when his real seerah is loving his AhlulBayt.

Regardless of the word used, did Fatima (as) speak to Abu Bakr ever again until her death?  Yes others have been buried at night but the narrator chose to include, " Abu Bakr about her death and offered the funeral prayer over her himself. " Clearly this was added as pertinent information.

Since word play is so important to you, you should always side with Quran and AhlulBayt.

"Quran and Sunnah" is a myth that was created later.

But if you did follow Quran and Sunnah, then Quran tells you to love the family of the Prophet and the Sunnah of the Prophet is to love his family.

Lol I have explained as to the reason why it’s of no benefit for ahlu tashayyu to use the Hadith with the word anger. If it still is hard for you to fathom that and instead go into sarcasm.....then......good luck it just shows how academic you are in your answers.

Yes she ra passed away happy hence Her husband ra gave allegiance Happily. Nothing hard to understand about that.

Brother Fatima ra has passed away....yes like I said before we do love ahlubaith ra, something that was done centuries ago  (supposed anger) has been rectified and they were happy with it should be left at that no khaliph out of the 3 were ever angry with Fatima ra, there is much more evidence and solid evidences to that fact. Your pulling on straws here.

we do love ahlubaith ra we just don’t add anything divine to them, if thats what makes you think that we don’t love them because we don’t believ they are divinely chosen then that’s your folly but it doesn’t mean Sunni hate them.

The reality is you are using weak evidences to support a theory. It doesn’t and won’t work they’re not good arguments they won’t stand the light of day I mean look at this thread.

We have other evidences She ra did rectify with Abu Bakr ra before She ra passed away. She was buried by Her husband alone so what? Then the husband came to the khaliph and apologised and gave Bayat and was happy with the leader......it’s in the same Hadith.

We do love ahlubaith ra but to use flimsy evidences of how Sunnis hate Them ra is very ingenious and shallow, even ahlubaith ra wouldn’t use such standards to argue their points.

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15 minutes ago, kirtc said:

you escaped the question..  I asked what other word would fit in the hadith and what meaning would the hadith have.

even without the word angry, you can tell there was a dispute between the two. who was abu bakr to deny Fatima azahra a.s?

you cant escape the fact that there was a dispute over fadaq. 

Dispute? 

That same land was offered back by Umar ra but ahlubaith ra never took it back.

Didn’t they think of it as a dispute? 

Even when Imam Ali ra came to power He could have very easily took it back but He ra didn’t, not much of a dispute was it.

 

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16 minutes ago, Wisdom007 said:

Dispute? 

That same land was offered back by Umar ra but ahlubaith ra never took it back.

Didn’t they think of it as a dispute? 

Even when Imam Ali ra came to power He could have very easily took it back but He ra didn’t, not much of a dispute was it.

 

The main problem was not about a piece of Land ,it was about ignoring authorit of Ahlul-Bayt  (as)& denying their right ,Ahlulbayt  (as) never care 

about gaining wealth for themselves.

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2 hours ago, Wisdom007 said:

so......the wife was angry and died in that state, yet husband forgot the anger and acknowledged him as leader? 

am sorry i have been trying to understand shia/sunni perspective of history.

 i have been trying to find answer for this specific question but no luck.

Answers either are not convincing enough or doesnt make any sense.. can some one knowledgeable answer this for me please. 

( please Note i said knowledgeable that is because i once asked a brother here in sc and he said it is because imam ali a.s gave promise to prophet Mohammed a.s that he would not kill abu bakr ra and so he dint  ( Which again left me with many more questions so i dug deeper only to realize what brother said was completely untrue)

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34 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

The main problem was not about a piece of Land ,it was about ignoring authorit of Ahlul-Bayt  (as)& denying their right ,Ahlulbayt  (as) never care 

about gaining wealth for themselves.

brother as i said i am trying to learn history , at the time of our beloved  (saws)  many denied prophet hood of our beloved prophet but he wasnt angry on anyone though people treated him badly and i strongly believe fatima zehra a.s inherited all the characteristics of our beloved prophet then why would she die angry over few handful of people ?

Edited by ephemeral

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Just now, ephemeral said:

brother i am trying to learn history , at the time of our beloved  (saws)  many denied prophet hood of our beloved prophet but he wasnt angry on anyone and i strongly believe fatima zehra a.s inherited all the characteristics of our beloved prophet then why would she die angry over few handful of people ?

Because they even didn't respect dead body of prophet  (pbu)and leave his body to gain power for themselves this was duty of Success or of prophet  (pbu) & they didon't do that & after him take everything for themselves in matters that have no authority about that such as inheritance of Prophet (pbu) by sabotage & oligarchy. 

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1 hour ago, ephemeral said:

am sorry i have been trying to understand shia/sunni perspective of history.

 i have been trying to find answer for this specific question but no luck.

Answers either are not convincing enough or doesnt make any sense.. can some one knowledgeable answer this for me please. 

( please Note i said knowledgeable that is because i once asked a brother here in sc and he said it is because imam ali a.s gave promise to prophet Mohammed a.s that he would not kill abu bakr ra and so he dint  ( Which again left me with many more questions so i dug deeper only to realize what brother said was completely untrue)

read nahjul al balagha.. 

Edited by kirtc

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14 hours ago, Wisdom007 said:

 

The word ANGER is only mentioned in the Hadith transmitted from Hazrat Aisha ra. It is not mentioned in the Hadith narrated from other companions like Hazrat Abu Huraira, Hazrat Um Hani, etc.

Further the hadith narrated from Hazrat Aisha ra is of two types, one type mentions the word “anger” while the other type does not mention “anger”. The hadith which mention the word “anger” are all narrated by Ibn Shahab Zehri [well known for his idraaj of statements].

 

so I guess your maths must be wrong especially if you are using not so solid formulas.

Wow.. You are now discrediting the book which is considered second only to Quran in the Sunni world just because you want to save someone's backside at any cost.

Quit playing with words and acknowledge the truth. This messy formula you are trying to play with is going to land the Sunnis in a lot of trouble and there is no wisdom in using such a deceitful strategy.

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54 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Because they even didn't respect dead body of prophet  (pbu)and leave his body to gain power for themselves this was duty of Successor of prophet  (pbu) & they didon't do that & after him take everything for themselves in matters that have no authority about that such as inheritance of Prophet (pbu) by sabotage & oligarchy. 

brother according to shias if this was duty of successor of prophet then wasnt it duty of imam ali a.s then why would fatima zehra a.s die angry over abu bakr ? for second part as i said even "at the time of our beloved  (saws)  many denied prophet hood of our beloved prophet but he wasnt angry on anyone and i strongly believe fatima zehra a.s inherited all the characteristics of our beloved prophet then why would she die angry over few handful of people "

 

Edited by ephemeral

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7 minutes ago, yam_110 said:

Wow.. You are now discrediting the book which is considered second only to Quran in the Sunni world just because you want to save someone's backside at any cost.

Quit playing with words and acknowledge the truth. This messy formula you are trying to play with is going to land the Sunnis in a lot of trouble and there is no wisdom in using such a deceitful strategy.

also, even if the word was misplaced... the hadith clearly states abu bakr rejected bibi fatima's a.s request which is unacceptable 

yet "wisdom" fails to see where the dispute is lol

Edited by kirtc

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8 minutes ago, kirtc said:

read nahjul al balagha.. ofcourse sunnis will say its fake.. but anyone with wisdom can see that the way it was written can only be from someone as enlightened and eloquent as Imam Ali a.s

brother i love sayings and preachings nahjul al balagha has. i dint read or have gone through everything that it has .. in sha Allah hope to do it in the future, for now could you please give me brief hadith of my answer. will highly appreciate it please.

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8 minutes ago, ephemeral said:

brother according to shias if this was duty of successor of prophet then wasnt it duty of imam ali a.s then why would fatima zehra a.s die angry over abu bakr ? for second part as i said even "at the time of our beloved  (saws)  many denied prophet hood of our beloved prophet but he wasnt angry on anyone and i strongly believe fatima zehra a.s inherited all the characteristics of our beloved prophet then why would she die angry over few handful of people "

 

It seems that you mistaken humbleness with being not angry

Even prophet (pbu) not always a happy person if religion was in danger he was angry about that than any person 

Their happiness & anger were for Allah & religion not themselves 

Prophet said who make Fatima (sa) makes me angry me .

& we know who make prophet  (pbu) make Allah angry .

 

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