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In the Name of God بسم الله
Arminmo

Justice between 2 wives

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9 minutes ago, Rayhana80 said:

Of course it is. Why does a man want more wives if he has one already? When you confront a man with multiple wives they start defending themselves saying that they can afford it or they have needs. What makes you think if a person intents to keep more wives he is serving the humanity? It’s pure lust. This world is full of selfish and insensitive men. 

I am sorry you feel that way, but not all men marry multiple wives based on lust, yes you must find you wife attractive but if you think about it:

If it was just a matter of lust, then why on earth would a man want to permanently marry anyone ever? They could just do mutah for the lust and not have to deal with the rest of the responsibilities, such as the financial one, in laws etc.

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5 hours ago, IbnSina said:

Having multiple wives has always been the norm in Islam, it is just this generation that thinks it is completely alien and impossible.

Today there are more men than women so some men will have to live without wife. If men have 4 wives, there will be even more men without a wife. Would it be completely alien and impossible that women could have 4 men? This could balance the men having many wives.

One man one wife is optional. Of course.

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3 hours ago, Rayhana80 said:

Why does a man want more wives if he has one already?

Usually, its because he isn't happy with the first wife. Why would a man going looking for another wife if he was perfectly content with the one he has already?

3 hours ago, Rayhana80 said:

When you confront a man with multiple wives they start defending themselves saying that they can afford it or they have needs.

No one is forcing the women to marry him. They're doing it voluntarily. If he can maintain the wives/children with the proper lifestyle then what's the problem?

3 hours ago, Rayhana80 said:

It’s pure lust.

BTW...Lust/Libido/whatever else only lasts until they are satisfied. The rest of the time its logic and common sense that drives a man.

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1 hour ago, andres said:

Today there are more men than women so some men will have to live without wife. If men have 4 wives, there will be even more men without a wife. Would it be completely alien and impossible that women could have 4 men? This could balance the men having many wives.

One man one wife is optional. Of course.

As far as I knew it was the opposite, do you have a source? Either way, males die quicker and more often.

There are more good muslim women than there are good muslim men because men are more prone to stray away, easier to bait and it is less socially frowned upon of the muslim men to do haram than it is for the muslim women. Also divorced women have a much harder time to get remarried, same goes with older women. This is how the muslim demographic look like, which is also in some ways affected by the culture of the majority of muslims, I cannot speak for the non muslims.

And yes, for a muslim man or women, it would be completely alien (and haram) for a muslim women to be married to two men or a man married to a women with two men. This is because we take the words of the holy Quran seriously, not as something we can bend however way we personally feel like.

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On 2/15/2018 at 3:03 PM, IbnSina said:

As far as I knew it was the opposite, do you have a source? Either way, males die quicker and more often.

There are more good muslim women than there are good muslim men because men are more prone to stray away, easier to bait and it is less socially frowned upon of the muslim men to do haram than it is for the muslim women. Also divorced women have a much harder time to get remarried, same goes with older women. This is how the muslim demographic look like, which is also in some ways affected by the culture of the majority of muslims, I cannot speak for the non muslims.

And yes, for a muslim man or women, it would be completely alien (and haram) for a muslim women to be married to two men or a man married to a women with two men. This is because we take the words of the holy Quran seriously, not as something we can bend however way we personally feel like.

More femails die young, but those that survive live longer. So you have more men, roughly 1.05 man for each woman in ages 0-55. In ages over 55 there are more women. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sex_ratio

The habit of having many wives, could be because in Muhammeds days, there were more women than men. 

Having more than one wife today tells your surrounding you can afford it. Kind of boast. The men that are singles are the loosers. It is also a status thing.

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On 2/15/2018 at 3:47 PM, andres said:

 

More femails die young, but those that survive live longer. So you have more men, roughly 1.05 man for each woman in ages 0-55. In ages over 55 there are more women. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sex_ratio

The habit of having many wives, could be because in Muhammeds days, there were more women than men. 

No, the reason for the multiple marriage of the Prophet(S) was mostly to unite different tribes, which it did.

Marriage can be used this way as well, so as to mend rifts between groups or families.

Anyways as far as the muslim demographic go, it is not like the rest as observed by my own experience of trying to match people and from the experience of other muslims.

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6 hours ago, Rayhana80 said:

Well! Men like you use Islam according to what suit them. I have seen men hardly sticking to their daily prayers or obligatory duties and would focus more on their selfish needs. Women are human too, don’t treat them like doormats. If you have 4 wives I pity them, how can they tolerate a person like you who is so full of himself. There is a lot more in our religion beyond marriages. 

not my fault, women chase me all the time. When they see me they all line up to impress me. I only go out at night while they are all tired and a sleep.

No one is using Islam, that would imply an incorrect usage. Islam is a series of laws for social organisation to the ethical manipluation of a stable society in one context.

I am sure the intended outcome of the Islamic propostion to x amount of females pertains to certain types of men. it is perhaps a sign of their natural virility or in some contexts where the female population is higher or in war torn areas. We can also admit that once again, the type of man Islam had in mind is of an intelligent type. The problem lies in the method of educating the masses. What generally occurs is a child like propagation, where an educated person may support the idea, because X did it 1400 years ago, but not explain the whys, how, reasons, and nature of the said individual. Reason is alluded and emotional tangents a created, thus the masses follow via imitation, and not true reason.

Now all females marry Alpha males, this implies that they marry someone who they think will give them a good life, although they cannot justify this openly, so they allude to the description of love and commitment. Males are the same, what they want to is to procreate. Now ofcourse as humans are social beings and companionship is a core principle on the human level of existence which is part of that ethos.

A man marrying or taking another women, is not cheating because consent has been applied through contractual agreements. The question lies in , as to why females think it is regarded as cheating, and why western laws have defined as that.

perhaps the females should tell us males the true reason of them being unhappy regarding males taking on another woman, consider this both from a biological perspective too. I am sure it stems around Value and attention. If the permission is granted that intimacy will be available with shared resources then it boils down too?.

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On 2/15/2018 at 3:53 PM, IbnSina said:

No, the reason for the multiple marriage of the Prophet(S) was mostly to unite different tribes, which it did.

Marriage can be used this way as well, so as to mend rifts between groups or families.

 

Anyways as far as the muslim demographic go, it is not like the rest as observed by my own experience of trying to match people and from the experience of other muslims. 

According to the link I gave you, the percentage of men is greater in the Muslim world and China than in the rest of the world. In China the lack of women is a real problem caused by the one-child policy, and that Chinese prefered to have a boy. Muslim men have maybe got used to being singles because of the traditional polygamy system.

Marriage has also been used to make friendship between european nations. Royal marriages were almost all political marriages. In modern democrasies this is no longer necessary. Maybe it still is in Muslim nations. 

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Polygamy is actually very good if it is done the correct way. There are some men who are good men. May Allah bless them by helping single mothers. There are some women who are suffering financially, emotionally, etc. No one marry them because of their situation. Even women don't want to be in contact with them. Why not a gentleman marry her and help her? It's not sexual, it's not greediness or anything. It's all about helping other people. You know that there are some women who are single their entire life, and no one marry them. They are not necessarily beautiful or fit or anytbing. On the other hand, some of them have disabilities, unattractive, so on. Good men should help them financially to marry. If no one is willing to marry them, they can choose them as second wife.

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1 hour ago, monad said:

not my fault, women chase me all the time. When they see me they all line up to impress me. I only go out at night while they are all tired and a sleep.

No one is using Islam, that would imply an incorrect usage. Islam is a series of laws for social organisation to the ethical manipluation of a stable society in one context.

I am sure the intended outcome of the Islamic propostion to x amount of females pertains to certain types of men. it is perhaps a sign of their natural virility or in some contexts where the female population is higher or in war torn areas. We can also admit that once again, the type of man Islam had in mind is of an intelligent type. The problem lies in the method of educating the masses. What generally occurs is a child like propagation, where an educated person may support the idea, because X did it 1400 years ago, but not explain the whys, how, reasons, and nature of the said individual. Reason is alluded and emotional tangents a created, thus the masses follow via imitation, and not true reason.

Now all females marry Alpha males, this implies that they marry someone who they think will give them a good life, although they cannot justify this openly, so they allude to the description of love and commitment. Males are the same, what they want to is to procreate. Now ofcourse as humans are social beings and companionship is a core principle on the human level of existence which is part of that ethos.

A man marrying or taking another women, is not cheating because consent has been applied through contractual agreements. The question lies in , as to why females think it is regarded as cheating, and why western laws have defined as that.

perhaps the females should tell us males the true reason of them being unhappy regarding males taking on another woman, consider this both from a biological perspective too. I am sure it stems around Value and attention. If the permission is granted that intimacy will be available with shared resources then it boils down too?.

What!! None of the things you say make any sense. FYI Allah Subhana watala detest people who are proud and talk too highly of themselves. Where on earth the modest and humble people go? 

If you are debating on male taking another wife without his wife’s knowledge, is not cheating, then I will ask you of your input when your daughter’s husband takes another wife or two. It’s easy to comment on someone else’s situation sitting on your couch, but when your actually go through it, then you will wake up. May Allah guide us all to the right path! 

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On 2018-02-14 at 9:38 AM, IbnSina said:

Guess you should not have multiple children either then!

Also there is a difference between treating two people equally and loving two people equally, dont get it mixed up.

I feel you but there is no limit or condition to the amount of children i can have in the Quran. However there is a condition in there about taking more than one wife which it is also stated in later surah that it is impossible.  

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Im sorry everyone but has any of you males here actually been married? seems you guys don't really understand how complicated females are. We require a lot of attention and the mood swings don't even get me started, especially while pregnant. We are great wonderful and amazing but if you think for a second you can be "just" to two or more wives without being rich you are mistaken. Children cost money and are not free, have you considered the cost of diapers for how fast children grow, constantly needing to buy new clothes and shoes, the newest gadgets and toys. Oh and did i mention the cost of maintaining two homes and cars and each wives personal needs. 

Like honestly good luck with the headache you men bring upon yourselves with this. let me know how it goes. 

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On 2/15/2018 at 4:57 PM, andres said:

According to the link I gave you, the percentage of men is greater in the Muslim world and China than in the rest of the world. In China the lack of women is a real problem caused by the one-child policy, and that Chinese prefered to have a boy. Muslim men have maybe got used to being singles because of the traditional polygamy system.

Marriage has also been used to make friendship between european nations. Royal marriages were almost all political marriages. In modern democrasies this is no longer necessary. Maybe it still is in Muslim nations. 

As I said, among the religious people, there are more women than men, this is what I can say from my experience at trying to match make people and from what I hear from others.

For example, when I was working in Singapore, my wife got to know some of the muslim women from the local shia community and many of them were good religious women but they were unmarried and close to 30. I went and talked to one of the guys I knew from their community and asked why it is like this and if they have some good matches for them, he said there are simply not that many guys here. That is just one of the cases I have seen.

So I can not say anything on behalf of the general population of the world or even the middle east, but among the ones that are religious, this is what I have observed.

Either way, I would not recommend anyone to get a second wife if the first wife is strongly against it but I also think such women should ask themselves why they are against it and if it is rational and religiously grounded reasons or if it is based on low self esteem and an inflated ego.

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On 2/16/2018 at 2:22 AM, shouzan said:

I feel you but there is no limit or condition to the amount of children i can have in the Quran. However there is a condition in there about taking more than one wife which it is also stated in later surah that it is impossible.  

One ayah has to do with equal treatment another ayah has to do with equal emotional feelings, it is not the same and the holy Quran does not contradict itself. Have you read the different tafsirs of the verses you refer to?

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