Justice between 2 wives

[Arminmo]

I always wanted to ask a guy that has at least 2 wives: how he is maintaining عدل between them so he won’t get punishment by God in judgment day ??

I can’t find the answer for that, on daily basis , how he can deal with them equally ??!!

[Sumerian]

Question: What is the meaning of “justice” required by religious law in dealing with one’s wives?

Answer: The justice that is required [in dealing with polygamy] is related to the division [of time between them] in the sense that when he spends a night with one of them then, he must spend one night each with the rest of them in every four nights.The justice that is required as a recommendation is equality in spending money, giving attention, cheerfulness, and fulfillment of their sexual needs, etc.

https://www.al-islam.org/a-code-of-practice-for-muslims-in-the-west-ayatullah-sistani/marriage

So as you can tell, "equality" between the wives is only mustahab, according to Sayyed Al-Sistani. What is obligatory on him is the way he shares his time between his wives.

Hope that answers your question. 

[Rayhana80]

Impossible! There is no way a man can do justice between two wives nowadays. Back in the days it was a common and accepted practice for men to have multiple wives. Now women don’t like to share. No matter what a husband would do he cannot make wives happy. The only suggestion for men who seek multiple wives is that they should go for temporary marriage not a permanent one. Because once u get into mutaa at least the other party knows it’s a temporary thing, whereas in permanent marriage you make your wife believe that you will be honest and faithful later on you cheat on her and ruin her life. 

[notme]

@Rayhana80 I think it is possible for a man to be just. He needs to start by being perfectly open and honest. If he's going to want multiple wives, he needs to make that clear to the woman long before she has any emotional attachment to him. Lying and deceiving is never compatible with justice. If he chooses wives who accept polygamy, there's no reason for jealousy.

[Rayhana80]

16 minutes ago, notme said:

@Rayhana80 I think it is possible for a man to be just. He needs to start by being perfectly open and honest. If he's going to want multiple wives, he needs to make that clear to the woman long before she has any emotional attachment to him. Lying and deceiving is never compatible with justice. If he chooses wives who accept polygamy, there's no reason for jealousy.

That is exactly what I meant. It’s sad that many men don’t disclose their plan to their future wives before hand and then they expects them to understand them later on. They should be upfront and leave the decision on the girl. Believe me, noawadys it’s hard to find a girl who wouldn’t mind getting into polygamous relationship. 

[shouzan]

9 hours ago, Rayhana80 said:

Impossible! There is no way a man can do justice between two wives nowadays. Back in the days it was a common and accepted practice for men to have multiple wives. Now women don’t like to share. No matter what a husband would do he cannot make wives happy. The only suggestion for men who seek multiple wives is that they should go for temporary marriage not a permanent one. Because once u get into mutaa at least the other party knows it’s a temporary thing, whereas in permanent marriage you make your wife believe that you will be honest and faithful later on you cheat on her and ruin her life. 

I agree, If you don't plan to love and dedicate yourself to your one and only wife, do Nikah Mutah. 

[shouzan]

4:129 وَلَن تَسْتَطِيعُوا أَن تَعْدِلُوا بَيْنَ النِّسَاءِ وَلَوْ حَرَصْتُمْ ۖ فَلَا تَمِيلُوا كُلَّ الْمَيْلِ فَتَذَرُوهَا كَالْمُعَلَّقَةِ ۚ وَإِن تُصْلِحُوا وَتَتَّقُوا فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ غَفُورًا رَّحِيمًا 
And you will never be able to be equal between wives, even if you should strive. So do not incline completely and leave another hanging. And if you amend and fear Allah - then indeed, Allah is ever Forgiving and Merciful.

[Soldiers and Saffron]

On 2/14/2018 at 8:00 AM, shouzan said:

4:129 وَلَن تَسْتَطِيعُوا أَن تَعْدِلُوا بَيْنَ النِّسَاءِ وَلَوْ حَرَصْتُمْ ۖ فَلَا تَمِيلُوا كُلَّ الْمَيْلِ فَتَذَرُوهَا كَالْمُعَلَّقَةِ ۚ وَإِن تُصْلِحُوا وَتَتَّقُوا فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ غَفُورًا رَّحِيمًا 
And you will never be able to be equal between wives, even if you should strive. So do not incline completely and leave another hanging. And if you amend and fear Allah - then indeed, Allah is ever Forgiving and Merciful.

This is speaking about emotional equality, which is as far as I know impossible to achieve, even for a mother and her kids, she will naturally like one more than the other, even if its 0,000005% more.

As far as physical equality goes, i.e. time spent, gifts, trips, etc, this can be divided equally and justly.

On 2/13/2018 at 10:36 PM, notme said:

@Rayhana80 I think it is possible for a man to be just. He needs to start by being perfectly open and honest. If he's going to want multiple wives, he needs to make that clear to the woman long before she has any emotional attachment to him. Lying and deceiving is never compatible with justice. If he chooses wives who accept polygamy, there's no reason for jealousy.

But sometimes some women also agree to everything just to get you and once you are theirs they will backtrack and guilt trip you. Funny how the world works.

[shouzan]

On 2/14/2018 at 8:31 AM, IbnSina said:

This is speaking about emotional equality, which is as far as I know impossible to achieve, even for a mother and her kids, she will naturally like one more than the other, even if its 0,000005% more.

As far as physical equality goes, i.e. time spent, gifts, trips, etc, this can be divided equally and justly.

But sometimes some women also agree to everything just to get you and once you are theirs they will backtrack and guilt trip you. Funny how the world works.

Well if it is impossible than that rests my case if you can not treat and love your wives equally than you can't marry multiple!

[Soldiers and Saffron]

5 minutes ago, shouzan said:

Well if it is impossible than that rests my case if you can not treat and love your wives equally than you can't marry multiple!

Guess you should not have multiple children either then!

Also there is a difference between treating two people equally and loving two people equally, dont get it mixed up.

Edited February 14, 2018 by IbnSina

[Sumerian]

It seems my reply to the O.P has gone unnoticed.

Let me repeat;

- Equality between the wives is mustahab only and NOT wajib.

- Yes, the husband is NOT required to give his wives the same amount of attention, money spent and love.

- The man is ONLY required to be "just" in adjusting the time spent with the wives. 

Edited February 14, 2018 by Sumerian

[notme]

31 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

But sometimes some women also agree to everything just to get you and once you are theirs they will backtrack and guilt trip you. Funny how the world works.

There are dishonest men and dishonest women and often people are fooling themselves. That's why I always advise people to be very, very cautious when it comes to marriage. Marriage done wrong is a very difficult test that few can fully pass. Marriage done right is comfort and companionship. 

I have no problem with the concept of polygamy, but I've never been in a situation where I had to test myself in this. I'm certain it can be done with justice, but it's not easy and requires a fine balance between honesty and discretion. I'm pretty sure it also requires that a man has more money than he needs to survive and an unusually high amount of patience. 

[Rayhana80]

3 hours ago, IbnSina said:

Guess you should not have multiple children either then!

Also there is a difference between treating two people equally and loving two people equally, dont get it mixed up.

What are you talking about? Makes no sense at all. You can have as many kids as you want, you love them equally because it’s your own flesh and blood, how can you compare it to a man’s lust for more women? All I am trying to make clear is, if he really wants to have more wives he can go for mutah not a permanent marriage. 

[zafa]

Sorry but how can you derive to such conclusion of marrying more then one female = lust

It can be many other reason which may lead a person to give a taught

everything between male and female is not just physical or lust

[Soldiers and Saffron]

18 hours ago, Rayhana80 said:

What are you talking about? Makes no sense at all. You can have as many kids as you want, you love them equally because it’s your own flesh and blood, how can you compare it to a man’s lust for more women? All I am trying to make clear is, if he really wants to have more wives he can go for mutah not a permanent marriage. 

I am saying that treating two people equally is not the same as loving two people equally.

And as someone ells pointed out, polygamy is not always based on lust. Could be many other reasons.

[Hamodiii]

On 2018-02-14 at 4:36 AM, notme said:

@Rayhana80 I think it is possible for a man to be just. He needs to start by being perfectly open and honest. If he's going to want multiple wives, he needs to make that clear to the woman long before she has any emotional attachment to him. Lying and deceiving is never compatible with justice. If he chooses wives who accept polygamy, there's no reason for jealousy.

Find me that girl.  I gotta get a girl who likes polygamy!

[monad]

I have 4 wives, none are complaining. Cause menz earnz moniez and it flawz like honiez

too many immature children here just like the real world. Too afraid to understand the biology of humankind. I am going to make an ownage post proving the flaws in many of the female posts.

I lied.

[notme]

34 minutes ago, Hamodiii said:

Find me that girl.  I gotta get a girl who likes polygamy!

I don't think you'll find a woman who likes to be one of multiple wives. There are women who will tolerate it, so long as the man fulfills his obligations and she is given her full rights. 

I suspect polygamy done right is much harder on the husband than it is on the wives. It should only be harder on the wives if he's doing it wrong. 

[Hamodiii]

20 minutes ago, notme said:

I don't think you'll find a woman who likes to be one of multiple wives. There are women who will tolerate it, so long as the man fulfills his obligations and she is given her full rights. 

I suspect polygamy done right is much harder on the husband than it is on the wives. It should only be harder on the wives if he's doing it wrong. 

Well, I know a couple where the woman herself went and proposed to the other woman.

I gotta find such a woman, feelsgoodman.

Nah, I am joking, these are vain desires.

[notme]

2 minutes ago, Hamodiii said:

Well, I know a couple where the woman herself went and proposed to the other woman.

I also knew a family like this. The husband wanted many children, and the first wife was tired of bearing them, so she suggested to him to find a second wife, and they found her together. The man gave each wife her own home and provided for all their needs, and the two women were friends and helped each other. It seemed strange to me, but it worked for them.

[Haimid]

1 minute ago, notme said:

I also knew a family like this. The husband wanted many children, and the first wife was tired of bearing them, so she suggested to him to find a second wife, and they found her together. The man gave each wife her own home and provided for all their needs, and the two women were friends and helped each other. It seemed strange to me, but it worked for them.

i also know an Arab friend in my city who has 3 woman and there's no issue between them as i know:-)

[Hamodiii]

4 minutes ago, notme said:

I also knew a family like this. The husband wanted many children, and the first wife was tired of bearing them, so she suggested to him to find a second wife, and they found her together. The man gave each wife her own home and provided for all their needs, and the two women were friends and helped each other. It seemed strange to me, but it worked for them.

Paradise. There is some women who wants to be taken care of, but wants their freedom as well, I guess. Lucky guy.

But then again a son is a blessing, and a girl is a mercy! Cause the son can support the family, and the girl if raised right, can be the one way ticket to jannah, beside Rasolallah.

 

Edited February 15, 2018 by Hamodiii

[Soldiers and Saffron]

2 minutes ago, notme said:

I also knew a family like this. The husband wanted many children, and the first wife was tired of bearing them, so she suggested to him to find a second wife, and they found her together. The man gave each wife her own home and provided for all their needs, and the two women were friends and helped each other. It seemed strange to me, but it worked for them.

Having multiple wives has always been the norm in Islam, it is just this generation that thinks it is completely alien and impossible.

[Hamodiii]

1 minute ago, IbnSina said:

Having multiple wives has always been the norm in Islam, it is just this generation that thinks it is completely alien and impossible.

It is impossible to even marry in this era, cause men and women are more focused on the apperance and other things, material things.

Edited February 15, 2018 by Hamodiii

[Haimid]

1 minute ago, IbnSina said:

Having multiple wives has always been the norm in Islam

"while we need More Muslims than Zionist"

[Annieboo]

7 hours ago, monad said:

I have 4 wives, none are complaining. Cause menz earnz moniez and it flawz like honiez

Lol. 

Interesting topic.

It would be difficult to do justice between the 2 wives. However, if one wife (I think ) is forgiving, then he will have it easy on the day of judgement. Although.. if both wives are mean and unforgiving then god knows better.

Only ‘Allah’ will judge us on that very day, I mean that poor guy can breathe ‘hoping’ of Allah’s ‘forgiveness’. Imagine if Allah gave the wives the authority to judge? (Oh god) 

See, Allah is not only ‘just’ but kind, loving, and forgiving.

The judgement of Allah for that person won’t just be on ‘justice’. If the husband has tried his utmost to keep them both happy, of course we are human beings and make mistakes.

[Soldiers and Saffron]

40 minutes ago, Hamodiii said:

It is impossible to even marry in this era, cause men and women are more focused on the apperance and other things, material things.

No, it is still possible, its just harder but iA you and me can make it easier.

[Shah Khan]

7 hours ago, monad said:

I have 4 wives, none are complaining. Cause menz earnz moniez and it flawz like honiez

too many immature children here just like the real world. Too afraid to understand the biology of humankind. I am going to make an ownage post proving the flaws in many of the female posts.

I lied.

No Money, No Honey. 

[Rayhana80]

7 hours ago, monad said:

I have 4 wives, none are complaining. Cause menz earnz moniez and it flawz like honiez

too many immature children here just like the real world. Too afraid to understand the biology of humankind. I am going to make an ownage post proving the flaws in many of the female posts.

I lied.

Well! Men like you use Islam according to what suit them. I have seen men hardly sticking to their daily prayers or obligatory duties and would focus more on their selfish needs. Women are human too, don’t treat them like doormats. If you have 4 wives I pity them, how can they tolerate a person like you who is so full of himself. There is a lot more in our religion beyond marriages. 

[Rayhana80]

5 hours ago, zafa said:

Sorry but how can you derive to such conclusion of marrying more then one female = lust

It can be many other reason which may lead a person to give a taught

everything between male and female is not just physical or lust

Of course it is. Why does a man want more wives if he has one already? When you confront a man with multiple wives they start defending themselves saying that they can afford it or they have needs. What makes you think if a person intents to keep more wives he is serving the humanity? It’s pure lust. This world is full of selfish and insensitive men. 

[Soldiers and Saffron]

9 minutes ago, Rayhana80 said:

Of course it is. Why does a man want more wives if he has one already? When you confront a man with multiple wives they start defending themselves saying that they can afford it or they have needs. What makes you think if a person intents to keep more wives he is serving the humanity? It’s pure lust. This world is full of selfish and insensitive men. 

I am sorry you feel that way, but not all men marry multiple wives based on lust, yes you must find you wife attractive but if you think about it:

If it was just a matter of lust, then why on earth would a man want to permanently marry anyone ever? They could just do mutah for the lust and not have to deal with the rest of the responsibilities, such as the financial one, in laws etc.

[andres]

5 hours ago, IbnSina said:

Having multiple wives has always been the norm in Islam, it is just this generation that thinks it is completely alien and impossible.

Today there are more men than women so some men will have to live without wife. If men have 4 wives, there will be even more men without a wife. Would it be completely alien and impossible that women could have 4 men? This could balance the men having many wives.

One man one wife is optional. Of course.

[Akbar673]

3 hours ago, Rayhana80 said:

Why does a man want more wives if he has one already?

Usually, its because he isn't happy with the first wife. Why would a man going looking for another wife if he was perfectly content with the one he has already?

3 hours ago, Rayhana80 said:

When you confront a man with multiple wives they start defending themselves saying that they can afford it or they have needs.

No one is forcing the women to marry him. They're doing it voluntarily. If he can maintain the wives/children with the proper lifestyle then what's the problem?

3 hours ago, Rayhana80 said:

It’s pure lust.

BTW...Lust/Libido/whatever else only lasts until they are satisfied. The rest of the time its logic and common sense that drives a man.

[Soldiers and Saffron]

1 hour ago, andres said:

Today there are more men than women so some men will have to live without wife. If men have 4 wives, there will be even more men without a wife. Would it be completely alien and impossible that women could have 4 men? This could balance the men having many wives.

One man one wife is optional. Of course.

As far as I knew it was the opposite, do you have a source? Either way, males die quicker and more often.

There are more good muslim women than there are good muslim men because men are more prone to stray away, easier to bait and it is less socially frowned upon of the muslim men to do haram than it is for the muslim women. Also divorced women have a much harder time to get remarried, same goes with older women. This is how the muslim demographic look like, which is also in some ways affected by the culture of the majority of muslims, I cannot speak for the non muslims.

And yes, for a muslim man or women, it would be completely alien (and haram) for a muslim women to be married to two men or a man married to a women with two men. This is because we take the words of the holy Quran seriously, not as something we can bend however way we personally feel like.

[Soldiers and Saffron]

23 minutes ago, Akbar673 said:

Why would a man going looking for another wife if he was perfectly content with the one he has already?

Could be other reasons, sometimes the wife finds the husband a second wife.