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In the Name of God بسم الله
Rayhana80

Divorce grounds

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1 minute ago, Hassan- said:

A khulla divorce is still a divorce... the difference is the wife surrenders her mahr. Both divorces need the permission of the husband. This is why I said show me evidence when you said this:

"you don't need to ask him for divorce. He might be stubborn and not give you. You have the right to take 'khulla' if you have any reason and you definitely can take khulla from him if you don't want to share him with any other female."

Please read my reply to ephemeral...often man don't give approval for khulla you are right man in required and that's when the islamic court calls the man and if the man is an extreme walking shaytan and doesn't show up still even after court's order den also khulla takes place...

Don't make this beautiful deen bad please with little knowledge.

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44 minutes ago, Karbalai110 said:

You don't need to ask him for divorce. He might be stubborn and not give you.

You have the right to take 'khulla' if you have any reason and you definitely can take khulla from him if you don't want to share him with any other female.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Karbalai110 said:

This is VERY OBVIOUS that she will tell her husband that she is going to take a khulla and if the man doesn't agree then the court does the needful to call him so that khulla proceedings can be finished...

brother my explanation was based on your previous post.. where you said " you dont need to ask him for divorce" . clearly your later post is contradicting your own statement.

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5 minutes ago, AmirAlmuminin Lover said:

The problem is in your mentality. You think if there is a family problem one side is %100 correct and the other side is %100 wrong. Both parties made mistakes. I didn't say that my mum was absolute right and my dad wrong. I said both have to forgive each other, make the past correct.

I didn't say she has to tolerate. My point that you didn't get is that if one side doesn't do his/her responsibilities, the other side should forgive and does his/her part. At the same time, talk with each other about the issue.

I don't know why you had that conclusion from my words. My words were not in favor of one side. It was a fair view. Both man and woman has responsibilities towards each other. If one side doesn't do that(regardless of being wife or husband), it creates problems.

No sorry!

The problem is not my mentality here, it is your mentality and the most unfortunate part of your mentality is that you made a condition to have loved your mother more if she was more tolerable towards your father with more patience.

Sorry but you don't love mother and father based on conditions.

Love for them is unconditonal. Do you realise this?

The problem is your mentality to be expecting your mother to be an angel and expect more and more.

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4 minutes ago, ephemeral said:

 

brother my explanation was based on your previous post.. where you said " you dont need to ask him for divorce" . clearly your later post is contradicting your own statement.

'You don't need to ask him for divorce' is as in he giving a divorce by himself, he initiating the first step'.

With that line I also said that he might not give her the divorce meant that he may not do it by himself as being first and that she will have to take khulla and do all the work by herself and let the authorities deal with her husband their way in doing the needful in an islamic as well as official way.

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9 minutes ago, Karbalai110 said:

Please read my reply to ephemeral...often man don't give approval for khulla you are right man in required and that's when the islamic court calls the man and if the man is an extreme walking shaytan and doesn't show up still even after court's order den also khulla takes place...

Don't make this beautiful deen bad please with little knowledge.

brother have you read my post ?? if not may i please ask you to read it again.

i said " wife can not take khula with out husband's consent .. if he is being unreasonable and refuses to give his consent then she will have to approach scholars and they would do the needful.. but she definitely have to ask him for khula divorce first before approaching them and yes , in islam marrying another woman is not a valid reason "

what little knowledge are we even talking about here?

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38 minutes ago, ephemeral said:

brother have you read my post ?? if not may i please ask you to read it again.

i said " wife can not take khula with out husband's consent .. if he is being unreasonable and refuses to give his consent then she will have to approach scholars and they would do the needful.. but she definitely have to ask him for khula divorce first before approaching them and yes , in islam marrying another woman is not a valid reason "

what little knowledge are we even talking about here?

Bravo answer!

I agree with you in everything except 'in Islam marrying another woman is not a reason'.

It is absolutely injust and the actual 'Islam' in particular is very just towards all in existence that I know.

I don't know then which Islam you are referring to, to be honest.

No offence.

A female is not a physical satisfaction machine for a male sorry just like khula has to be on proper grounds then second marriage must also be on proper grounds and on justifiable grounds especially. 

If anybody can blindly do second marriage third marriage then prove me from Prophet's(SAWW) or Imams(a.s) example or their truly devoted people or else don't mention it.

Do you even realise the type of fitna being created if men were blindly allowed to do marriage upon marriage?

So called mullas come up with their innovations and inventions in deen.

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1 hour ago, ephemeral said:

brother have you read my post ?? if not may i please ask you to read it again.

i said " wife can not take khula with out husband's consent .. if he is being unreasonable and refuses to give his consent then she will have to approach scholars and they would do the needful.. but she definitely have to ask him for khula divorce first before approaching them and yes , in islam marrying another woman is not a valid reason "

what little knowledge are we even talking about here?

And let us say that the shari'a is allowing marriage without wife's permission then that shari'a itself is making rules on what conditions second marriage should be.

------

Refer to this link, it might be help for all of us.

http://aboutislam.net/counseling/ask-about-islam/first-wifes-approval-marry/

And this is the Ayah

And if you fear that you will not deal justly with the orphan girls, then marry those that please you of [other] women, two or three or four. But if you fear that you will not be just, then [marry only] oneor those your right hand possesses. That is more suitable that you may not incline [to injustice]. (Quran, 4:3)

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15 hours ago, Karbalai110 said:
15 hours ago, Karbalai110 said:

i agree with you in everything except 'in Islam marrying another woman is not a reason'.

And this is the Ayah

And if you fear that you will not deal justly with the orphan girls, then marry those that please you of [other] women, two or three or four. But if you fear that you will not be just, then [marry only] oneor those your right hand possesses. That is more suitable that you may not incline [to injustice]. (Quran, 4:3)

Here in above verse Allah says that husband can have upto 4 wives given he have to be just

Here in sister’s case he is not neglecting his responsibilities , he is taking care of her and children.she is hurt that he married another woman. polygamy has been practiced by our  Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), imams( may Allah be pleased with them) and prophets companions.brother in regards to islam being  just all i can say is woman can have it stipulated under marraige contract that her husband shouldn’t take another wife while she is married to him. here sister in question doesn’t have it. marrying an other woman can not be a valid reason unless you want to go against Allah’s words.

Allah SWT has made it legal and Halal in Islam for a man to marry more than 1 woman.i doubt if you can leave your husband for merely doing something that is halal in the sight of Allah.If sister develops an aversion from husband and hates him and The hatred must have reached a proportion where she would not allow him conjugal rights then khula is permissible.brother i was told by some one that if you accept Quran then you need to accept everything that is in there you can not take that which is convenient and leave that, which isnt .

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sister @Rayhana80

Please don't be hurt by my comments i am just stating that which is in quran and that in fatwahs..  I read your posts and I honestly feel your pain. sister if i were you  i wouldnt be able to deal with sharing my husband with someone else. Call me all modern, but its not how i grew up and i simply can not do it. i would want my husband to myself. . 

sister you have done nothing wrong. it is NOT your fault that he married another woman. please read duas and  have hope in your heart for a beautiful place in Jannah, picture yourself content and with no pain in the afterlife as this world is just temporary, and ask Allah swt to help you to pass your most difficult trials with grace and patience.... I pray that Allah swt helps you to find a solution in sha Allah,

@Karbalai110 brother i want to believe your words when you said  'Islam' in particular is very just towards all in existence-- could you please tell me why Quran states  having more than 1 wife is permissible? why husband can marry an other woman with out first wife's permission ? 

.

Edited by ephemeral
correction

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23 hours ago, lola20 said:

1. Don't call me young lady.

2. I read that book. It's rich saying that a woman can't divorce her husband based on her emotions, but a dude can beat up his wife and then divorce her if he's angry with her. Don't even try to deny this, it's in the Quran, and I work in a mental health clinic with women who suffer from domestic violence who are primarily Muslim women.

OLD lady, that has passed her youth in frivolities, how has time passed thou, while now you await the hell fireeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!! :party:

Khul’a (divestiture) divorce is a term applied to a wife who has developed an aversion toward her husband and despises him to the point of refusing him conjugal rights. For this particular divorce, the wife would have to forfeit her mahr, and perhaps pay an additional amount that may exceed her mahr, for her independence.

Mubarat divorce is when a wife and husband have developed a mutual aversion toward one another. Therefore, in order for the wife’s autonomy, she would have to furnish the husband with some of her assets. The difference between this and a khul’a divorce is that the value does not exceed the mahr because it was a mutual dislike.

Al-hakim al-shar’i is a divorce conducted by an Islamic judge or imam with or without the consent of the husband. This particular divorce is exercised in cases where the wife, having no authority to divorce, requests and claims a legitimate reason to divorce but the husband refuses to grant the divorce.

When a husband refuses to grant a divorce, and the wife’s claim for divorce is justified, then the Islamic courts or imam may intervene. The Islamic court or imam may summon the husband and order him to divorce her, or they may finalize the divorce with or without his consent. This type of divorce is termed hakim al-shar’i.

Assuming the wife does not have the power of divorce and that she wishes for separation then her claim for a divorce must be warranted. Scholars have specific criteria for such cases. Additionally, there are certain cases in which a marriage may be automatically annulled without declaration or legal procedures. They are as follows:

1. Annulment: If the husband concealed his insanity before the marriage contract.

2. Annulment: If the husband concealed a communicable or a burdening disease before the marital contract.

3. Annulment: If the husband concealed castration before the marital contract.

4. Annulment: If the husband apostatizes (abandons his faith). The moment a husband apostatizes, the marriage dissolves instantaneously.

5. Divorce Procedures: If the husband becomes insane during the marriage.

6. Divorce Procedures: If the husband physically abuses or is violent toward his wife.

7. Divorce Procedures: If the husband no longer supports his wife financially.

8. Divorce Procedures: If the husband abandons his wife physically because of long-term imprisonment ( guantanamo bay ), he is missing, or he has deserted her.

9. Divorce Procedures: If the husband becomes physically contagious.

10. Divorce Procedures: If the husband becomes castrated during marriage, and the consequences become unbearable for the wife.

carry on read the book. https://www.al-islam.org/a-new-perspective-women-islam-fatma-saleh-moustafa-al-qazwini/chapter-3-divorce-divorce-and-mahr#divorce

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2 hours ago, ephemeral said:

Here in above verse Allah says that husband can have upto 4 wives given he have to be just

Here in sister’s case he is not neglecting his responsibilities , he is taking care of her and children.she is hurt that he married another woman. polygamy has been practiced by our  Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), imams( may Allah be pleased with them) and prophets companions.brother in regards to islam being  just all i can say is woman can have it stipulated under marraige contract that her husband shouldn’t take another wife while she is married to him. here sister in question doesn’t have it. marrying an other woman can not be a valid reason unless you want to go against Allah’s words.

Allah SWT has made it legal and Halal in Islam for a man to marry more than 1 woman.i doubt if you can leave your husband for merely doing something that is halal in the sight of Allah.If sister develops an aversion from husband and hates him and The hatred must have reached a proportion where she would not allow him conjugal rights then khula is permissible.brother i was told by some one that if you accept Quran then you need to accept everything that is in there you can not take that which is convenient and leave that, which isnt .

Okay again.

why are you putting it on women that women can have it stipulated in her marriage contract? The rule is for males to have multiple wives at one time hence therefore its the male's foremost duty to mention this to the female he is marrying to well in advance before marriage if he has such an intention or if he may have later for second marriage.

The man has to justify his second marriage in accordance to Islamic Law with a proper valid reason.

Our Prophet(SAWW) and Imams(a.s) multiple marriages were solely for religious purposes and hence a man's utmost point to remember while doing second marriage must be for relgious purposes.

Other points are many that may come into picture for example if the woman is really not satisfying his sexual needs then this could be discussed between the couple and be sorted out and if it is still cannot be sorted then man can approach any other woman for second marriage or else he can continue living with that wife by only seeking Moula's(a.s) help in making the relationship better in all the ways or seeking help in the most disturbing matter between the two as because the first thing that matters above all is 'hurting somebody by our action'.

What if we end up hurting a female who has come from a background where women are totally unaware of sexual life before marriage and have to be taught brother.

So I personally believe that if a woman is not satisfying one's sexual need then not just get rid of her as if she was just a sex slave instead be a man and approach her talk to her guide her as a friend as an husband as to what would please him, Pray have tavakul and definitely things will get sorted.

Believe in Moula(a.s) whole heartedly.

And by the way if you check the link that I have shared it states that the time this ayat was revealed was just after the Battle of Badr when 10% of muslim men had died and women were left widow and children orphan.

Our Prophet(SAWW) and Moula(a.s) married women to protect them and to give shelter to them and their children.

Don't take me wrong brother. Having said this, I am not saying that a man should suffer in case if he has genuine reasons from his wife of disturbance.

Edited by Karbalai110

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On 2/15/2018 at 1:55 PM, ephemeral said:

sister @Rayhana80

Please don't be hurt by my comments i am just stating that which is in quran and that in fatwahs..  I read your posts and I honestly feel your pain. sister if i were you  i wouldnt be able to deal with sharing my husband with someone else. Call me all modern, but its not how i grew up and i simply can not do it. i would want my husband to myself. . 

sister you have done nothing wrong. it is NOT your fault that he married another woman. please read duas and  have hope in your heart for a beautiful place in Jannah, picture yourself content and with no pain in the afterlife as this world is just temporary, and ask Allah swt to help you to pass your most difficult trials with grace and patience.... I pray that Allah swt helps you to find a solution in sha Allah,

@Karbalai110 brother i want to believe your words when you said  'Islam' in particular is very just towards all in existence-- could you please tell me why Quran states  having more than 1 wife is permissible? why husband can marry an other woman with out first wife's permission ? .

I like your Question.

Islam is just that is why Islam is allowing men to keep two wives at a time for example.

Now in order to know how is Islam just to women in this regard is when you read the actual sharia conditions in which more than one marriage is allowed for a male.

Sharia allows you for more than one marriage in conditions that are absolutely genuine for a male.

I request you to read conditions on which males can have multiple wives at a time, you will realise how just is this lovely deen towards men and women.

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22 hours ago, AmirAlmuminin Lover said:

@rkazmi33

When I was back in Iran, I used to kiss my mum's hands and feet everyday. I was the only person in our family who used to do that to my mum. Sometimes I made breakfast and bring it on her bed. I used to dye her hair every time she wanted. My brothers always complained that I am so kind to mum. You don't know anything of my relationship with my mum, but I always regret something. I say myself if my mum was responsive to my dad's needs(even though he did a lot of bad things to my mum), I would love my mum more. I would ready to do and sacrifice more for my mum.

I didn't say that much about my dad. He made me upset a lot of times because of his negligence to family. I expect him more. When I told my dad go and be nice to mum, he sound regretful. I told him, I'm afraid of the day that Allah asks you about family in afterlife. He did bad things to family, but I felt he regret what he did in the past. I think both my mum and dad should give each other another chance to make the past correct.

To OP, follow Islamic solution. Affection changes everything.

Brother

Forgive me if you found anything rude from my side. I am sorry.

I just wanted to show you a different perspective.

We all are brothers either in Religion or in Humanity as Moula Ali(a.s) said.

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17 hours ago, Karbalai110 said:

why are you putting it on women that women can have it stipulated in her marriage contract?

Brother. I clearly said I am stating that which is in Quran and sharia. PERIOD.

17 hours ago, Karbalai110 said:

The rule is for males to have multiple wives at one time hence therefore its the male's foremost duty to mention this to the female he is marrying to well in advance before marriage if he has such an intention or if he may have later for second marriage.

 Brother though you and I agree on this, through our common sense and logical reasoning, not every body think alike us . sadly there is no hadith or qur’anic verses that is making it obligatory for a man to mention about second marriage well in advance before marriage.

Also,to contradict your statement  let me tell you something even if a man assures his wife before marriage that he wouldn’t take second wife and after marriage lets say after 2 years , 5 years, or 20 years of marriage he changes his mind ,though a real man would never go back on his words unfortunately not many men are like this.. because wife did not stipulate it in her marriage contract . he can marry an other woman with or with out first wife’s consent. ( this is also main reason why I want to spread awareness of this clause in marriage contract ).

Polygamy is a tremendous trial for a woman. It could be quite devastating

17 hours ago, Karbalai110 said:

I like your Question.

Islam is just that is why Islam is allowing men to keep two wives at a time for example.

Now in order to know how is Islam just to women in this regard is when you read the actual sharia conditions in which more than one marriage is allowed for a male.

Sharia allows you for more than one marriage in conditions that are absolutely genuine for a male.

I request you to read conditions on which males can have multiple wives at a time, you will realise how just is this lovely deen towards men and women.

Brother i so want you to prove me wrong but can i end the argument by saying this, that one of the condition for polygamous marriage which is just according to sharia law  is :

if a man has fallen in love with other women. The only way to prevent such men from adultery is the second marriage . 

also an other just condition for polygamous marraige is that if a man is able to provide , support and look after an other woman and can be just with two wives then he can have a second marriage with or with out first wife's consent..

now tell me are these genuine ? is islam just with women ? if they are not then why do we have it ? and if they are just then why are we even having these debates ? 

brother honestly my whole individual perception on these matters is different ,i cant help but i see my imaan going down when i think of such laws myself ( Allah knows best .. he is all knower .. how can my knowledge and perception be better than his ( Astagfirulla) .. i surely cant see things how Allah does  .. and hence i can not give my individual opinion to sister here as i believe that is not what she is asking , she needs answers from Quran and law wise. 

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The men who have commented about polygamy being a good thing are completely wrong. Not that it will make a difference to anyone, but here is a study that was conducted on Syrian women in polygamous marriages and the state of their mental health. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3782180/

I'd also like to add that my mother almost threw herself into a river when my dad did it behind our backs. The only reason she didn't is for me and because she has faith in God. My dad's actions have also had a detrimental effect on me. Polygamy destroys families and father-daughter relationships. 

Edited by lola20

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