Divorce grounds

[Hassan-]

2 minutes ago, shouzan said:

I live in Canada, therefore i can file for divorce if i chose to. Again i speak from my own experience in CANADA.

1. Though, the wife does not have a right to pronounce Talaq unless such a power is delegated to her by her husband at the time of contracting marriage, all the same she is given a right to seek divorce through intervention of the court on the grounds pleaded by her, or by mutual consent on the terms agreed by the parties.

Those are non-Islamic laws, and have nothing to do with Islamic shari'a. Even if a women gets a divorce in a Canadian court, in Islam you will still be a married women.

[rkazmi33]

19 minutes ago, shouzan said:

The point of having a husband is not as a bank account, its to have someone to love, grow and spend your life with. And to be honest i like having my own money and my own ability to spend it where and when i chose. What kind of a person doesn't like buying the person they love a birthday or anniversary gift? 

 

This is not about having a husband as a bank account. It's about both husband and wife fulfilling their responsibilities. In order to prove your love, you must do your share of the work. What kind of person would want his wife to take care of both housework and finances? Taking care of house and kids is a lot of work and unless a woman earns so much money that she can hire someone to do it for her, it's impossible to keep a full time job and raise kids. Also, if a person is capable of abuse, he is also capable of financial abuse. A woman can earn money but her husband can stop her from spending her money according to her wish. There are many women who earn a lot of money, and still they are stuck in abusive relationships. 

[rkazmi33]

26 minutes ago, Hassan- said:

Those are non-Islamic laws, and have nothing to do with Islamic shari'a. Even if a women gets a divorce in a Canadian court, in Islam you will still be a married women.

I cannot find the exact fatwa, but a quick search on google showed this. Also, I had the right to divorce in Nikah nama, and I went to 2 scholars, (one of them was Syed Seestani's representative), and they both said as long as I have right to divorce in contract, I can get a khula divorce. 

[Hassan-]

17 minutes ago, rkazmi33 said:

I cannot find the exact fatwa, but a quick search on google showed this. Also, I had the right to divorce in Nikah nama, and I went to 2 scholars, (one of them was Syed Seestani's representative), and they both said as long as I have right to divorce in contract, I can get a khula divorce. 

Actually the fatwa of Sayed Sistani is clear:

Issue 2548: * If a woman lays a condition at the time of Nikah that if her husband goes on a journey or, for example, does not give her maintenance for six months, she will have the right of divorce, the condition is void. However, if she lays a condition that if her husband goes on a journey or, for example, does not give her maintenance for six months, she will be his Wakil for her own divorce, the condition is in order.

 

 

Sayed Sistani does not allow it.

[rkazmi33]

8 minutes ago, Hassan- said:

Actually the fatwa of Sayed Sistani is clear:

Issue 2548: * If a woman lays a condition at the time of Nikah that if her husband goes on a journey or, for example, does not give her maintenance for six months, she will have the right of divorce, the condition is void. However, if she lays a condition that if her husband goes on a journey or, for example, does not give her maintenance for six months, she will be his Wakil for her own divorce, the condition is in order.

 

 

Sayed Sistani does not allow it.

This is a new development. The right to divorce means the right to divorce. It's such a shame that important life altering decisions are made on the basis of technicality of few words. Fine! I don't care if I am not islamically divorced. I don't plan on getting married again anyway. As long as I live in west, I have civil divorce and an option of restraining order, and I am happy with that. 

Edited February 13, 2018 by rkazmi33

[Hassan-]

2 hours ago, rkazmi33 said:

This is a new development. The right to divorce means the right to divorce. It's such a shame that important life altering decisions are made on the basis of technicality of few words. Fine! I don't care if I am not islamically divorced. I don't plan on getting married again anyway. As long as I live in west, I have civil divorce and an option of restraining order, and I am happy with that. 

Women not having the power to divorce is a new development? This ruling has been the same since Islam existed.

[lola20]

You could instigate a divorce. Get a boyfriend and flaunt him in front of your husband see how he likes it.

[starlight]

13 minutes ago, lola20 said:

Get a boyfriend and flaunt him in front of your husband see how he likes it

Adultery is a major sin. I don't think it's very sensible to advise anyone to sin. 

[lola20]

4 minutes ago, starlight said:

Adultery is a major sin. I don't think it's very sensible to advise anyone to sin. 

Yeah, but no husband would stay married to his wife if she committed what you call adultery. I'm just saying, it's a good way to instigate a divorce from him, if that's what you want.

[starlight]

3 minutes ago, lola20 said:

I'm just saying, it's a good way to instigate a divorce from him, if that's what you want.

It certainly isn't a good way. Religious issues aside if they have kids she could lose custody. 

A better way would be to contact a molana and tell him she doesn't want to continue living with him. 

[rkazmi33]

45 minutes ago, Hassan- said:

Women not having the power to divorce is a new development? This ruling has been the same since Islam existed.

Like I mentioned in my post, according to a topic created in 2006, all women could get right to divorce. Also, 2 years ago I got my divorce. But I understand that was a different time. At that time Iran's ally Russia hadn't passed a law allowing it's citizens to beat their wives without going to jail. At that time Sunnis weren't concerned with women rights as much. Since Shias need to copy Russia and oppose Sunnis, Shia women must suffer. 

Edited February 14, 2018 by rkazmi33

[lola20]

Do you live in a Muslim majority country where they impose such laws on people? If you don't, just go to the courts and get a divorce.

[rkazmi33]

6 minutes ago, lola20 said:

Do you live in a Muslim majority country where they impose such laws on people? If you don't, just go to the courts and get a divorce.

Are you talking to me? I already have a civil divorce. Getting a boyfriend is dangerous, if I get caught, I will suffer. And it won't have any effect on my ex-husband. He was extremely baighairat, he would be happy about it because he liked competition. It's sad because I have been using religion for past 2 years to tell my traditional family that I have right to divorce. 

[Hassan-]

41 minutes ago, rkazmi33 said:

But I understand that was a different time. At that time Iran's ally Russia hadn't passed a law allowing it's citizens to beat their wives without going to jail. At that time Sunnis weren't concerned with women rights as much. Since Shias need to copy Russia and oppose Sunnis, Shia women must suffer. 

What??

[lola20]

1 hour ago, rkazmi33 said:

Are you talking to me? I already have a civil divorce. Getting a boyfriend is dangerous, if I get caught, I will suffer. And it won't have any effect on my ex-husband. He was extremely baighairat, he would be happy about it because he liked competition. It's sad because I have been using religion for past 2 years to tell my traditional family that I have right to divorce. 

I'm sorry you're going through this. You might have to go to extreme measures to get what you want if other people are in control like this. Do you think if you did something like a hunger strike, that would convince them? 

[rkazmi33]

42 minutes ago, lola20 said:

I'm sorry you're going through this. You might have to go to extreme measures to get what you want if other people are in control like this. Do you think if you did something like a hunger strike, that would convince them? 

Well he has been in Pakistan for 2 years, he had a green card, so there's no chance of him coming back. But if he does come back, I will just get a separate place to live. I want to save suicidal attempts for the time when things get really bad. I am sure hunger strike won't have any effect on anyone. 

Edited February 14, 2018 by rkazmi33

[Rayhana80]

2 hours ago, lola20 said:

Yeah, but no husband would stay married to his wife if she committed what you call adultery. I'm just saying, it's a good way to instigate a divorce from him, if that's what you want.

Yeah but on whatever grounds she wants Khula, why does she want to portray herself as a bad one? She should be straight forward and seek help from local mosque. What I fail to understand is why men think selfishly and decide the fate of his wife thinking she would stick to him no matter what he does and then on the top of it he expects her to understand him. 

[Rayhana80]

5 minutes ago, rkazmi33 said:

Well he has been in Pakistan for 2 years, he had a green card, so there's no chance of him coming back. But if he does come back, I will just get a separate place to live. I want to save suicidal attempts for the time when things get really bad. I am sure hunger strike won't have any effect on anyone. 

I totally understand you, I am in a similar situation but the only difference is my husband keeps telling me he loves me and he would never divorce me then he brings proofs from books saying that a wife is not allowed to seek divorce based on her husband second marriage, duh! I am weighing both the probabilities to see which one would suits me the best. I have kids I don’t want to make a decision which would be detrimental to my family. Even though I don’t feel like to be with him, as he has hurt me so much. Men only think from their perspective, they are very insensitive. May Allah help us all in this man’s world. 

[notme]

@women stuck with a loser:

When my ex-husband refused to divorce me, and also refused to live with or provide any financial support for me and our daughter, threatening to tell his community at his mosque how he treated us worked. After I said I will do this, he got divorce on paper and sent it to me that same day. 

He was a greedy, immature, dishonest man, but he wanted people to think he is good, pious, trustworthy, and sincere. Your just have to know what his sensitivities are and use that to bring peaceful resolution to the situation. 

Some people might call that blackmail, but as far as I can tell, there really isn't any other option. 

[rkazmi33]

23 minutes ago, Rayhana80 said:

I totally understand you, I am in a similar situation but the only difference is my husband keeps telling me he loves me and he would never divorce me then he brings proofs from books saying that a wife is not allowed to seek divorce based on her husband second marriage, duh! I am weighing both the probabilities to see which one would suits me the best. I have kids I don’t want to make a decision which would be detrimental to my family. Even though I don’t feel like to be with him, as he has hurt me so much. Men only think from their perspective, they are very insensitive. May Allah help us all in this man’s world. 

I know it's so hard to get divorce when you have kids. Everyone makes you feel you are a bad mother if you get a divorce. Everyone keeps telling me to have kids. May Allah make things easier for you. 

[Soldiers and Saffron]

11 hours ago, lola20 said:

You could instigate a divorce. Get a boyfriend and flaunt him in front of your husband see how he likes it.

You are advising someone to commit zina on a public platform for muslims?

What is the state of your mental health?

[Soldiers and Saffron]

10 hours ago, rkazmi33 said:

Since Shias need to copy Russia

Aha? Shias NEED to copy Russia?

Thank you, I did not know that I had this need.

[rkazmi33]

I am thinking I should tell a scholar: I am willing to marry you but for that I need to get my divorce final first. After he pronounces my divorce, I will deny that I made any promise. What if I go to Hawza, become a scholar and pronounce my own divorce? Can I do that? 

[shouzan]

16 hours ago, rkazmi33 said:

This is not about having a husband as a bank account. It's about both husband and wife fulfilling their responsibilities. In order to prove your love, you must do your share of the work. What kind of person would want his wife to take care of both housework and finances? Taking care of house and kids is a lot of work and unless a woman earns so much money that she can hire someone to do it for her, it's impossible to keep a full time job and raise kids. Also, if a person is capable of abuse, he is also capable of financial abuse. A woman can earn money but her husband can stop her from spending her money according to her wish. There are many women who earn a lot of money, and still they are stuck in abusive relationships. 

Abuse is wrong but without money how can a woman even consider packing a bag taking her children(if any) and walking out the door. However i do agree with your point. I also agree that if power of divorce is put in the nikah contract a woman does have the right to file as long as its for a proper reason. and YES that means getting a second wife without asking the first wife or ignoring her protect against a second wife. 

[shouzan]

9 hours ago, notme said:

@women stuck with a loser:

When my ex-husband refused to divorce me, and also refused to live with or provide any financial support for me and our daughter, threatening to tell his community at his mosque how he treated us worked. After I said I will do this, he got divorce on paper and sent it to me that same day. 

He was a greedy, immature, dishonest man, but he wanted people to think he is good, pious, trustworthy, and sincere. Your just have to know what his sensitivities are and use that to bring peaceful resolution to the situation. 

Some people might call that blackmail, but as far as I can tell, there really isn't any other option. 

You Go Girl! honestly i agree, in order to get my divorce i had to prove abuse, because in front of everyone he was without fault. He told our community i suffered mental problems and wasn't in my own mind.  So i got my old phone and put it on record and set it to the side every day. Just recording our day to day interactions. There was so much evidence in those recordings that i was granted my divorce and Sole Custody of our children, and CLEAN mental heath assessment. He in fact can't even come near me or them at this point unless i give my permission and have someone there to supervise. He now loves far far away from us and i have been happily raising my children. I am engaged and will defiantly be very smart about the conditions in my Nikah.

 

 Blackmail is smart! 

[starlight]

Amidst all the divorce advice you are getting may I suggest not going for divorce? 

As far as I have been able to guess your husband remarried and that left you hurt now you are thinking of divorce.If that is so please think again,if he is not neglecting you and taking care of the children then divorce isn't a good idea. You will simply be trading one set of problem for another. 

@Rayhana80

Edited February 14, 2018 by starlight
Added tag

[notme]

4 minutes ago, starlight said:

Amidst all the divorce advice you are getting may I suggest not going for divorce? 

As far as I have been able to guess your husband remarried and that left you hurt now you are thinking of divorce.If that is so please think again,if he is not neglecting you and taking care of the children then divorce isn't a good idea. You will simply be trading one set of problem for another. 

In spite of me giving advice for how to get a divorce, I agree with this. 

If your husband's only major "unforgivable flaw" is that he took a second wife, and he's still caring for and supporting you and your children, you really should try to live with the situation. Divorce is usually only a best option in cases of abuse or abandonment.

He should have told you he wanted a second wife before he married her, but everyone makes mistakes. 

[lola20]

Rkazmi33 don't listen to the people telling you to stay in this marriage. There's something better out there for you. Even being alone would be better than staying with this jerk. Can I ask which part of the world you live? 

[lola20]

11 hours ago, rkazmi33 said:

I know it's so hard to get divorce when you have kids. Everyone makes you feel you are a bad mother if you get a divorce. Everyone keeps telling me to have kids. May Allah make things easier for you. 

People keep telling you to have more kids with this guy? That's the worst advice I've ever heard. 

[rkazmi33]

41 minutes ago, lola20 said:

Rkazmi33 don't listen to the people telling you to stay in this marriage. There's something better out there for you. Even being alone would be better than staying with this jerk. Can I ask which part of the world you live? 

I live in USA. Yes People in my community are pretty much like people on shiachat, they keep telling me to stay. Don't worry, he is not coming back. Even if he does, I will contact  a woman's shelter and move out the same day. I will never ever have kids with that man. I am already too old, in 3 or 4 years, I will be 40, so there won't be any chance anyway. I have birth control pills ready, I will even go for abortion, if I am forced to become pregnant somehow. Alhamdulillah I have many options since I live in west. In first few years of marriage, due to everyone's pressure, I actually wanted to have kids. It didn't happen then, it won't happen now. 

Edited February 14, 2018 by rkazmi33

[lola20]

12 minutes ago, rkazmi33 said:

I live in USA. Yes People in my community are pretty much like people on shiachat, they keep telling me to stay. Don't worry, he is not coming back. Even if he does, I will contact  a woman's shelter and move out the same day. I will never ever have kids with that man. I am already too old, in 3 or 4 years, I will be 40, so there won't be any chance anyway. I have birth control pills ready, I will even go for abortion, if I am forced to become pregnant somehow. Alhamdulillah I have many options since I live in west. In first few years of marriage, due to everyone's pressure, I actually wanted to have kids. It didn't happen then, it won't happen now. 

Again, really sorry you're going through this. People can be so callous and lacking in empathy. Is there any way you could drop everything and leave your community for good? 

[notme]

10 minutes ago, rkazmi33 said:

I am already too old, in 3 or 4 years, I will be 40, so there won't be any chance anyway. I have birth control pills ready,

My daughter was born when I was 38 and taking birth control pills every day. My son was born when I was 41. There is no magic cutoff time, and the only absolutely reliable pregnancy prevention is abstinence. 

Abortion is haram, even before the child is considered a person with a soul. After about 12 weeks it is murder. If you would do it, do not publicly admit it here on shiachat. It's against site rules to confess even hypothetical sins. 

[rkazmi33]

28 minutes ago, notme said:

My daughter was born when I was 38 and taking birth control pills every day. My son was born when I was 41. There is no magic cutoff time, and the only absolutely reliable pregnancy prevention is abstinence. 

Abortion is haram, even before the child is considered a person with a soul. After about 12 weeks it is murder. If you would do it, do not publicly admit it here on shiachat. It's against site rules to confess even hypothetical sins. 

I don't know why are we discussing hypotheticals. 2 years ago, a scholar pronounced my divorce. If I had gotten married again and my divorce was not valid, who would be responsible? That scholar doesn't know the rule change, according to him my divorce is still valid. Also, I have civil divorce, and I live in US. How many times anyone could force me without going to jail for rape? In a world, where forced marriage is halal and divorce is haram, abortion can be halal. 

[rkazmi33]

34 minutes ago, lola20 said:

Again, really sorry you're going through this. People can be so callous and lacking in empathy. Is there any way you could drop everything and leave your community for good? 

Even if I move, they would not leave me alone. My sister moved to another state and they are still controlling her. Also, I don't know anyone outside of community. If I have to move out, I will take help from a woman's shelter. 

[Rayhana80]

3 hours ago, starlight said:

Amidst all the divorce advice you are getting may I suggest not going for divorce? 

As far as I have been able to guess your husband remarried and that left you hurt now you are thinking of divorce.If that is so please think again,if he is not neglecting you and taking care of the children then divorce isn't a good idea. You will simply be trading one set of problem for another. 

@Rayhana80

 I appreciate your input but how will I able to trust him again? He has been lying to me for so long. I feel like cheated and disgusted as he has used me for his own selfish reasons. I am trying hard to make this relationship work but it’s not easy to share your husband, believe me. Had he informed me of his intentions before marriage I would have not pursued his proposal. I feel like he has ruined my life.