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In the Name of God بسم الله
Rayhana80

Divorce grounds

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9 minutes ago, AmirAlmuminin Lover said:

@lola20

You got my message wrong. Read my message again. My point was attempting to make relationship correct, to make it work. After you do your job the best way, and it still doesn't work, then you think of divorce. Not all families have same situation as you had, so suggesting divorce to the OP is wrong.

 There are families who have problems, but most of them will be solved by humbleness and patience. He/she just need to wait some time, so that the other person realizes his/her mistake. The key is that LET YOUR SPOUSE TO REALIZE HE/SHE NEEDS TO CHANGE HIS/HER BEHAVIOR. That is the key. It's two way, but you thought I'm supporting violence.

You don't know what is happening in her life. Maybe it can be solved by more effort and talking. Why do you think it's ended? You also judged me by supporting violence against women. I also had similar family experience, but I still believe affection and patience can change people.

I've worked in DV and I work in a mental health clinic. Domestic abusers do not change.

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1 minute ago, lola20 said:

You didn't even read the study I provided to make such a determination.

I told you four posts back I cannot access it for some reason. But let it go, it's cast in stone for you so nothing's going to make you change your mind.

Have a nice day.

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44 minutes ago, starlight said:

That's a nikahnama developed by the Sunni government,means nothing for us. It also gives women the right to divorce which doesn't apply to us so we can't go by this.

I don't understand from where do you or some people like you come up with such meaningless sentences, utter absurdity honestly.

Refer to below link for our shia nikaah nama and read it with an open mind, a request. It's as clear as a crystal.

Check the last paragraph on page number 14th and continue it on page 15th to understand the clauses.

SubhanALLAH our deen is easy and not vague or complicated so please don't just post anything that you like as it may mislead people and you will be held accountable for it. 

The clause states: 

The husband gives an irrevocable authorization to the wife to appoint someone as his representative ( w a k i l ) for divorcing her, after seeking approval of the resident ‘ãlim* or her father* or her brother,* in the following cases:
1. if the husband marries another woman without permission of the wife named in 

this marriage contract;
2. if the husband ill treats and or physically abuses the wife to such an extent that it becomes extremely difficult for the wife to continue the marital relationship;
3. if the husband abandons the wife and does not provide for her for more than six months continuously;
4. if the husband divorces his wife in the civil court but refuses to give her the religious divorce.

* These are various options in order to prevent emotions from clouding the decision- making process on this serious matter of life. 

http://iman-wa.org/cms/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/IMAN_Marriage_Contract.pdf

With this I am ending the debate and there is no room left for further discussion honestly.

Wasalamu alaykum to all the brothers and sisters.

Edited by Karbalai110

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@Karbalai110 You need to understand the basic concept of Shia divorce the method of which remain the same irrespective of the nikkah document. In Shia Islam the wife always has the right to ask for divorce(khula) if she does not want to continue the marriage for any number of reasons but it always has to be given by the husband or his representative or a religious scholar if the husband is being oppressive. 

Shia Islam does not require a husband to take first wife's permission for a second marriage(unless marrying her niece) but the wife has the right to stipulate in the marriage contract that if the husband remarries she has the right to ask for divorce.

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@Karbalai110

brother all i am saying is i have different personal opinion to polygamy for now and that i am in a quest to learn and see things in way that Allah swt does..

brother thanks for all the links that you are providing for our understanding. Appreciate it .

i havent opened that link as sister  @starlight  mentioned that it is sunni's marraige contract.

i have checked an other link that you have provided later on but may i please point out that it is canada state marraige contract and that in canada polygamy is illegal and practice is criminalized under section 293 and hence their marraige contract differs from the normal islamic marraige contract . 

source :http://www.torontodefencelawyers.com/blog/general-category/crime-one-spouse-canada/

looking at page 14 : As a last resort, the woman could approach (4) the mujtahid (a Shi‘a jurist) or his representative to intervene; and if he is convinced that the husband is being unjust, then he has the power to serve a notice to the husband and ask for his consent to divorce the wife. If the husband refuses, then the mujtahid can dissolve the marriage and pronounce the divorce even without the husband’s consent. In Canada, however, not all families have the extended family support to put such pressure; nor do we have a mechanism as a community (e.g., excommunication) to censure the man who is treating his wife unjustly. The only option is to approach the mujtahid; but that process, like any other judicial process, takes its own due time. In order to make things easy and fast in solving such marital problems where an abusive husband is refusing to give divorce, we encourage the couples, at the time of marriage, to add certain optional conditions to the marriage contract as seen below:

Edited by ephemeral

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41 minutes ago, starlight said:

@Karbalai110 You need to understand the basic concept of Shia divorce the method of which remain the same irrespective of the nikkah document. In Shia Islam the wife always has the right to ask for divorce(khula) if she does not want to continue the marriage for any number of reasons but it always has to be given by the husband or his representative or a religious scholar if the husband is being oppressive. 

Shia Islam does not require a husband to take first wife's permission for a second marriage(unless marrying her niece) but the wife has the right to stipulate in the marriage contract that if the husband remarries she has the right to ask for divorce.

I typed a long message to you but got connection problem and it all went away, and I just saw that ephemeral has commented so will reply to him as well.

Anyways even after giving you the proof of nikaah paper you stand still with your words then to make it brief with you, to you your understanding, to me mine's and I will not agree to the stupidity that the woman has to demand it prior marriage and that husband does not require permission.

I don't know if a female had gone through divorce situation from your very own family (May Allah forbid) but my very own sister has although the cause was different so I know what and how it really is practically done and what are the clauses.

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22 hours ago, ephemeral said:

@Karbalai110

brother all i am saying is i have different personal opinion to polygamy for now and that i am yet to learn and see things it in way that Allah swt does..

brother thank for all that links that you are providing for our understanding. Appreciate it .

i havent opened that link as sister  @starlight  mentioned that it is sunni's marraige contract.

i have checked an other link that you have provided later on but may i please point out that it is canada state marraige contract and that in canada polygamy is illegal and practice is criminalized under section 293 and hence their marraige contract differs from the normal islamic marraige contract.

source :http://www.torontodefencelawyers.com/blog/general-category/crime-one-spouse-canada/

looking at page 14 : As a last resort, the woman could approach (4) the mujtahid (a Shi‘a jurist) or his representative to intervene; and if he is convinced that the husband is being unjust, then he has the power to serve a notice to the husband and ask for his consent to divorce the wife. If the husband refuses, then the mujtahid can dissolve the marriage and pronounce the divorce even without the husband’s consent. In Canada, however, not all families have the extended family support to put such pressure; nor do we have a mechanism as a community (e.g., excommunication) to censure the man who is treating his wife unjustly. The only option is to approach the mujtahid; but that process, like any other judicial process, takes its own due time. In order to make things easy and fast in solving such marital problems where an abusive husband is refusing to give divorce, we encourage the couples, at the time of marriage, to add certain optional conditions to the marriage contract as seen below:

اهلَين Ya Habib

I understand your point but sharia remains same anywhere irrespective.

Good Luck brother in learning and when you learn something new about anything then share it with me also as I am also an student.

:-).

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21 minutes ago, ephemeral said:

@Karbalai110

brother all i am saying is i have different personal opinion to polygamy for now and that i am yet to learn and see things it in way that Allah swt does..

brother thank for all that links that you are providing for our understanding. Appreciate it .

i havent opened that link as sister  @starlight  mentioned that it is sunni's marraige contract.

i have checked an other link that you have provided later on but may i please point out that it is canada state marraige contract and that in canada polygamy is illegal and practice is criminalized under section 293 and hence their marraige contract differs from the normal islamic marraige contract.

source :http://www.torontodefencelawyers.com/blog/general-category/crime-one-spouse-canada/

looking at page 14 : As a last resort, the woman could approach (4) the mujtahid (a Shi‘a jurist) or his representative to intervene; and if he is convinced that the husband is being unjust, then he has the power to serve a notice to the husband and ask for his consent to divorce the wife. If the husband refuses, then the mujtahid can dissolve the marriage and pronounce the divorce even without the husband’s consent. In Canada, however, not all families have the extended family support to put such pressure; nor do we have a mechanism as a community (e.g., excommunication) to censure the man who is treating his wife unjustly. The only option is to approach the mujtahid; but that process, like any other judicial process, takes its own due time. In order to make things easy and fast in solving such marital problems where an abusive husband is refusing to give divorce, we encourage the couples, at the time of marriage, to add certain optional conditions to the marriage contract as seen below:

 

 

And brother one more thing if you cone across a neutral shia contract of nikaah then do share it with me because honestly if the laws of Islam requires meeting different countries criterias then our Sharia law is differing country wise which does not make sense.

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@Karbalai110 i agree that sharia remains same but i doubt if Canadians would include it in a way it is meant to be in their marriage contract because of this below rule in canada and their citizens need to abide by it :

Despite being regarded as morally permissible and practiced by some religions, engaging in any form of polygamy is an indictable criminal offence punishable for an imprisonment term of not more than five years.

Source : http://www.torontodefencelawyers.com/blog/general-category/crime-one-spouse-canada/#ixzz57KXPKAbt.

in sha Allah brother . 

Edited by ephemeral

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19 minutes ago, Karbalai110 said:

Anyways even after giving you the proof of nikaah paper you stand still with your words then to make it brief with you, to you your understanding, to me mine's and I will not agree to the stupidity that the woman has to demand it prior marriage and that husband does not require permission.

I would be careful choosing my words because what you are calling stupidity is the ruling of almost all our marjas.

1) Can a married man engage in temporary marriage with or without his wife’s permission?

2) Can a married man marry a second wife without his first wife’s permission?

Thanks!

Answer 565: Islam recognizes the permissibility of a man having four permanent and concurrent wives.  The man’s second marriage while he has a permanent wife, except in the case of marriage with the wife’s niece (her brother’s daughter, or sister’s daughter)[1], is not conditional upon consent of the first wife. But, if the wife [stipulates], as a condition of the marriage, that her husband cannot marry another woman, then, according to some jurists (Fuqahā), this condition is valid and the husband should not violate it.

The following are some opinions of our maraja concerning whether the first wife can stipulate the condition or not:

Imam Khomeini, Ayatollah Bahjat, Khamenei, Fadhil Lankarani, Makarim Shirazi and Noori Hamedani: No, this condition is not valid or binding, unless there is a condition that: “the wife has power of attorney from the husband, that if the husband remarries, she can carry out divorce”, this is valid.[2]

Ayatollahs Tabrizi, Sistani and Safi Golpayegani: Yes, this condition is valid and binding, and if after the marriage, the husband does not act upon this condition and remarries, then he has committed a sin.[3]

Ayatollah Wahid: according to obligatory precaution (Ihtīyāt Wājib), this condition is not valid and binding, unless there is a condition that: ” the wife has power of attorney from the husband, that if the husband remarries, she can carry out divorce”, this is valid.[4]

http://askislam.ir/permanent-temporary-marriage-married-man-without-permission-wife/#_edn1

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22 minutes ago, starlight said:

I would be careful choosing my words because what you are calling stupidity is the ruling of almost all our marjas.

1) Can a married man engage in temporary marriage with or without his wife’s permission?

2) Can a married man marry a second wife without his first wife’s permission?

Thanks!

Answer 565: Islam recognizes the permissibility of a man having four permanent and concurrent wives.  The man’s second marriage while he has a permanent wife, except in the case of marriage with the wife’s niece (her brother’s daughter, or sister’s daughter)[1], is not conditional upon consent of the first wife. But, if the wife [stipulates], as a condition of the marriage, that her husband cannot marry another woman, then, according to some jurists (Fuqahā), this condition is valid and the husband should not violate it.

The following are some opinions of our maraja concerning whether the first wife can stipulate the condition or not:

Imam Khomeini, Ayatollah Bahjat, Khamenei, Fadhil Lankarani, Makarim Shirazi and Noori Hamedani: No, this condition is not valid or binding, unless there is a condition that: “the wife has power of attorney from the husband, that if the husband remarries, she can carry out divorce”, this is valid.[2]

Ayatollahs Tabrizi, Sistani and Safi Golpayegani: Yes, this condition is valid and binding, and if after the marriage, the husband does not act upon this condition and remarries, then he has committed a sin.[3]

Ayatollah Wahid: according to obligatory precaution (Ihtīyāt Wājib), this condition is not valid and binding, unless there is a condition that: ” the wife has power of attorney from the husband, that if the husband remarries, she can carry out divorce”, this is valid.[4]

http://askislam.ir/permanent-temporary-marriage-married-man-without-permission-wife/#_edn1

No sorry rejecting your links on below reasons. And please keep this post on permanent marriages only as sister initially spoke about her permanent marriage.

1. Mutah and permanent marriage are two different things.

2. The comments in specific by Marjas are not clear whether they are talking about permanent marriage on temporary marriage.

Both cannot be mentioned under the same clause as both are meant for different reasons.

For your sake if you say that this is also for permanent marriage then please provide it on a stamped paper from for example sistani's office Number 1

Number 2 is, also please provide a proper documented proof as an answer for this question?

What if the girl (which mostly girls do in their goodness) forgets to mention this demand at the time of signing her permanent marriage contract?.

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41 minutes ago, starlight said:

I would be careful choosing my words because what you are calling stupidity is the ruling of almost all our marjas.

1) Can a married man engage in temporary marriage with or without his wife’s permission?

2) Can a married man marry a second wife without his first wife’s permission?

Thanks!

Answer 565: Islam recognizes the permissibility of a man having four permanent and concurrent wives.  The man’s second marriage while he has a permanent wife, except in the case of marriage with the wife’s niece (her brother’s daughter, or sister’s daughter)[1], is not conditional upon consent of the first wife. But, if the wife [stipulates], as a condition of the marriage, that her husband cannot marry another woman, then, according to some jurists (Fuqahā), this condition is valid and the husband should not violate it.

The following are some opinions of our maraja concerning whether the first wife can stipulate the condition or not:

Imam Khomeini, Ayatollah Bahjat, Khamenei, Fadhil Lankarani, Makarim Shirazi and Noori Hamedani: No, this condition is not valid or binding, unless there is a condition that: “the wife has power of attorney from the husband, that if the husband remarries, she can carry out divorce”, this is valid.[2]

Ayatollahs Tabrizi, Sistani and Safi Golpayegani: Yes, this condition is valid and binding, and if after the marriage, the husband does not act upon this condition and remarries, then he has committed a sin.[3]

Ayatollah Wahid: according to obligatory precaution (Ihtīyāt Wājib), this condition is not valid and binding, unless there is a condition that: ” the wife has power of attorney from the husband, that if the husband remarries, she can carry out divorce”, this is valid.[4]

http://askislam.ir/permanent-temporary-marriage-married-man-without-permission-wife/#_edn1

Don't take me wrong and please nevermind about my last post in terms of requiring proper documented proof as it may be difficult to get hold of.

May Allah make it better for this sister.

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Okay @starlight , @shiaman14 , @Hassan- , @rkazmi33 , and @Rayhana80 i took this subject directly to two scholars. You may know them, Sayyid Ali Hosseini Khamenei and Grand Ayatollah Makarem Shirazis Fatwa. It took them a long time to reply however i believe this should solve this debate on the current subject. I sent them: 

"Salam Alaikum, I have a question about Nikah conditions, Can a Nikah Contract have a condition about a husband not taking a second wife? and can one include a woman right to divorce for good reason? Thank you."

 

Both replied similarly however i will quote the reply from Sayyid Ali Hosseini Khamenei for the purpose  of exact wording:

"Wa Alaykum Assalaam. 1- It can be a specific condition stipulated in the marriage contract. 2- The man can make the woman his representative (wakeel) to perform Talaq".

In short yes a woman can have the right to divorce if it was put into the Nikah Contract also a woman can actually include that a husband not have the ability to take a second wife. As the conditions in the nikah contract are binding they are legal. This is supported by two leading shia scholars.

 

I REST MY CASE!

*Drops Mic

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