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In the Name of God بسم الله
Rayhana80

Divorce grounds

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Also just want to highlight this section from the article mentioned above: 

"Furthermore, in polygamous spousal relationships, it is quite commonly reported that the patriarchal nature of polygamy leads not only to women’s subordination, but also to their sexual, physical and emotional abuse at the hands of their husbands[8]."

This has definitely been the case for my mother and other women I've known to be in polygamous marriages. 

Stop pretending there isn't a problem. There is a phenomenal problem in polygamous marriages in the Ummah and beyond. The men denying the problem are just trying to hold onto their scrap of power over their women. 

Edited by Hameedeh
[Mod Note: Moderators can reduce the size of excessively large fonts to a standard size of 14.]

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On 2/14/2018 at 2:05 PM, AmirAlmuminin Lover said:

Salaam Alaykum Sister

I was grown in a family that parents fought each other a lot. They haven't talked with each other for 35 years. Sometimes they tried(very few times) to make relationship correct, but more than 99 percent of the time, they fight. Now I set with my brothers that each time one of us must be at home. We don't leave our parents alone at home because it has severe consequences. It's very hard for us that one brother must be at home always(one time me, another time my second brother and so on). My father got a second wife almost 20 years ago, and my mum found out. My dad also did Mutah when my mum disregarded his physical needs. They sleep separately. All of these things made argument a consistent feature of our family. It is so bad that our neighbors know that my family is fighting all the time. A few of months back I called my mum and dad and told them to forgive each other. I told them you are getting old now(they are 55), let's forgive each other and be happy together. I told my mum best thing you can get from this world is your husband's will. Non of my parents did anything. My dad did an action, but my mum didn't. I am really fed-up of this situation. One time one of the oldest relatives in our family came to our house to make the relationship correct. Both my parents argued each other in front of him. It was a complete shame for family reputation.

The only thing that killed my childhood happiness, was parents fight. My parents fought each other a lot, and it had SEVERE effects on us. PLEASE don't fight with your husband in front of your children. Please don't raise your voice. These are the words from a person who suffered from this.

To be honest with you, I never blame my dad for getting second wife or doing Mutah. These things don't ruin family. Disrespecting each other, consistent argument, not caring, ruining each other integrity in front of other people, etc ruin family. Let me be clear and direct to the point with you. How did you treat your husband? Have you asked this question from yourself? Have you been responsive to his sexual and emotional needs? Men are in need of their wife's attention. They need to rely on their wife. Did you give this security and safety to your husband? Have you ever asked him: "Am I a good wife to you?" Have you ever asked him: "Am I responsive to your needs? Do you feel happy with me?" Did you tell him that  you want to be his favorite girl? Ask him these questions and do Jihad to get his satisfaction. I promise you, your husband will not leave you at all. He won't think of any girl anymore. And really try to be better for him(all of these things are two directions, and men also must do these things for their wives). If you haven't asked him those questions and didn't attempt to get his satisfaction the way he wants, I tell you divorce is not the solution. One of you must start. Start this Jihad to get his satisfaction. Try to be nice to him. I know how you feel, it's very hard, but it fixes your relationship with your husband. Be nice to him. Approach him sometimes. Try to get his satisfaction. Call him during the day. Tell him how much you miss him. Send kids to your mum's house one night each month, make a perfect dinner and enjoy together. I promise you, these actions change your husband a lot. It's very hard especially in your current situation, but it gives you security that he would never do second wife again. You will be his priority, and he takes care of you. It is very hard, but it has unbelievable outcomes. I see some women who check their husband online activities, they check their cell phones, they check if there's a female perfume in their car, but ask them this question. Have you ever spent a fraction of that time to text your husband"I miss you the most"? Have you ever asked your husband "Am I a perfect wife to you?". I am a man. If I see that I am my wife's priority, I never ever think of leaving her or second wife.

Don't listen to people who tell you divorce. Fight for your family to make it better. Try to have better relationship with your husband. Follow those steps. They change your husband.

Hey since you gave us your parent's whole life story trying to justify this kinda violence towards women, I'll share mine:

My dad married my mom when she was 18. He was in his mid-late thirties. After they had 1st child together, they left Iraq and went to refugee camp in Saudi, running away from Sadaam Hussein. He was considering marrying a second wife already that early on in their marriage. My mom stuck with him. I was born a couple years later in the refugee camp, and my dad decided we were all coming to the U.S. My mom never agreed to this, but my father threatened to leave and take us both away from her (as is Islamically permitted for the dad to do), so my mom stuck with him. He brought her to the U.S. where she didn't know anybody and didn't have anyone else to rely on, effectively displacing her from both country and family. I remember from my very early childhood how much my father abused this power over my mother. Yeah, he supported her financially but it was always with a grudge. Eventually, she had to go on housing because he didn't want to pay the rent anymore, and she didn't speak English and couldn't get a job plus she has 2 kids to raise (that he regularly threatened to take away from her). The strongest memory I have of my father is of him burning my leg with a hot knife when I was 3 years old because my bare legs were an affront to him. Yes, at 3 years old, I was asking for it. I remember him only speaking harsh words to my mother and her retreating into corners at his attacks. He would constantly say he was "zilmat al bayt" the man of the house, for some reason, like it wasn't obvious that he was. I remember him hitting her once, really hard, so hard she had to lie to the doctor about how the injury happened. He never did it again, not out of shame, but because of the fear that he would get arrested. I also remember him beating up my brother trying to turn him into a "man" and trying to emotionally abuse me the same way he abused my mother, and beating me up when I talked back to him. Amidst all this, I remember him constantly saying he's going to marry someone else - he used this as a threat against my mother. I also remember him resenting her for not willingly coming to him. After all, sex is the husband's right. I remember hearing him come to her in the middle of the night (they slept in separate beds eventually, and my room was next to theirs) and I remember her protesting and him doing it anyways. I remember her coming into my bedroom to sleep next to me just to hide from him. I was 12.

@AmirAlmuminin Lover So shame on my mother for disregarding my father's physical needs. Shame on all women who have the audacity to refuse to sleep with their husbands.

NO ONE IS ENTITLED TO SEX, least of all abusive men who treat women like commodities whose only purpose is for sexual satisfaction and making children.

And no, Mutah and polygamy DOES RUIN FAMILIES, not just disrespect and arguments. Treating your wife like garbage ruins families. Expecting your wife to get down on her knees and kiss your feet while you're planning to marry another woman RUINS FAMILIES and RUINS FATHER-DAUGHTER RELATIONSHIPS. Believe me when I say cheating, polygamy, mutah are all just the tip of the iceberg for a world of physical and emotional abuse.

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@lola20 I am very sorry that you and your Mother had to go through all that. If things were the way you say then your father was a Zaalim man but sister, all that had nothing to do with polygamy. He would have been just as Zaalim even if he didn't want to remarry. My ex husband did very similar things to what your father did, abuse follows more or the same patterns,but alongwith that he always said that I was going to be the only woman in his life. So abuse isn't related to polygamy,it's a separate problem.

Edited by starlight
Fixed sentence

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4 minutes ago, lola20 said:

Thanks for your compassion @starlight, but the evidence in the study I provided begs to differ. 

I cannot access the actual article due to some reason but lots of researches conducted by the westerns regarding Islamic and social issues are skewed so I wouldn't believe on it too much. 

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4 minutes ago, starlight said:

I cannot access the actual article due to some reason but lots of researches conducted by the westerns regarding Islamic and social issues are skewed so I wouldn't believe on it too much. 

I'm sorry @starlight but no 

Many Muslims and Arabs cry "western feminism" as an excuse to ward off any legitimate criticism of the sexism rampant in our culture, and it needs to stop. 

There is actual evidence in the study above, which was conducted on a sample of Syrian women, and the researcher themselves is an Arab I believe. 

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@lola20 Here is another study : 

Older adults in open relationships reported being happier, healthier, and more sexually active than the general population of similar age and relationship status[1].

One stereotype of open relationships is that such arrangements primarily benefit men. However, virtually all of the differences in health, happiness, sexual behavior, and HIV testing between the CNM and GSS samples remained intact when researchers compared men and women separately. If anything, some of the "benefits" of open relationships were more pronounced among women.

See,these studies are not something which we should rely on too much. We  have Islam to follow Alhumdollilah. 

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1 minute ago, starlight said:

@lola20 Here is another study : 

Older adults in open relationships reported being happier, healthier, and more sexually active than the general population of similar age and relationship status[1].

One stereotype of open relationships is that such arrangements primarily benefit men. However, virtually all of the differences in health, happiness, sexual behavior, and HIV testing between the CNM and GSS samples remained intact when researchers compared men and women separately. If anything, some of the "benefits" of open relationships were more pronounced among women.

See,these studies are not something which we should rely on too much. We  have Islam to follow Alhumdollilah. 

Was the study you are quoting for people in open relationships where both parties have multiple partners, or just the guy?

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1 minute ago, lola20 said:

Was the study you are quoting for people in open relationships where both parties have multiple partners, or just the guy?

Both. I highlighted the part where they say that having multiple partners benefits women more,according to the study. 

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4 hours ago, ephemeral said:

Brother. I clearly said I am stating that which is in Quran and sharia. PERIOD.

 Brother though you and I agree on this, through our common sense and logical reasoning, not every body think alike us . sadly there is no hadith or qur’anic verses that is making it obligatory for a man to mention about second marriage well in advance before marriage.

Also,to contradict your statement  let me tell you something even if a man assures his wife before marriage that he wouldn’t take second wife and after marriage lets say after 2 years , 5 years, or 20 years of marriage he changes his mind ,though a real man would never go back on his words unfortunately not many men are like this.. because wife did not stipulate it in her marriage contract . he can marry an other woman with or with out first wife’s consent. ( this is also main reason why I want to spread awareness of this clause in marriage contract ).

Polygamy is a tremendous trial for a woman. It could be quite devastating

Brother i so want you to prove me wrong but can i end the argument by saying this, that one of the condition for polygamous marriage which is just according to sharia law  is :

if a man has fallen in love with other women. The only way to prevent such men from adultery is the second marriage . 

also an other just condition for polygamous marraige is that if a man is able to provide , support and look after an other woman and can be just with two wives then he can have a second marriage with or with out first wife's consent..

now tell me are these genuine ? is islam just with women ? if they are not then why do we have it ? and if they are just then why are we even having these debates ? 

brother honestly my whole individual perception on these matters is different ,i cant help but i see my imaan going down when i think of such laws myself ( Allah knows best .. he is all knower .. how can my knowledge and perception be better than his ( Astagfirulla) .. i surely cant see things how Allah does  .. and hence i can not give my individual opinion to sister here as i believe that is not what she is asking , she needs answers from Quran and law wise. 

My respected brother

As you personally mean to say that you want to disagree with it but you afraid to do so as it may go against Allah and sharia right so lets just talk as per sharia here and also do think for one moment that what if things have come to us incorrectly from so called 'ulemas'. Anyway coming to our concern.

As I have informed you in the above link leading towards the page to the ayat that it says that this ayat was revealed after the battle of badr when many muslim men were shaheed hence orphange increased and women became widow. It was then revealed in order for women and orphans to gain shelter by men in a halal way and therefore muslim men were allowed to marry more than once. This is an absolutely justified reason and I am sure no true believing muslim women would disallow it as because it is purely for the cause of 'ummah' and deen.

Moreover I am attaching you the 'Nikah Paper' in english translation  please do read the clause 21 in which it is being asked 'whether the bridegroom has any existing wife, and if so, whether he has secured the permission of Arbitration Council under the Muslim Family Ordinance, 1961 to Contract after first marriage'.

So my dear brother after reading the Nikah Paper itself you will know that there are definitely permissions coming into picture because of a simple fact that if a man is allowed for multiple marriages then definitely there will be certain criteria as per the sharia and hence it is proved by the Nikah Paper itself.

Brother I don't know how old are you but as one grows learning Islam so as he grows there comes a time when you get answers yourself through the common understanding of how islam is but only if you have a proper teacher :-).

It's an easy and not so complicated deen.

Sorry, I am pasting the link to the page of Nikaah Paper, please read clause number 21. Can't save the two pages properly on my mobile hence providing you the link.

https://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/223389233/Nikah-Nama-English-Translation#

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@lola20

You got my message wrong. Read my message again. My point was attempting to make relationship correct, to make it work. After you do your job the best way, and it still doesn't work, then you think of divorce. Not all families have same situation as you had, so suggesting divorce to the OP is wrong.

 There are families who have problems, but most of them will be solved by humbleness and patience. He/she just need to wait some time, so that the other person realizes his/her mistake. The key is that LET YOUR SPOUSE TO REALIZE HE/SHE NEEDS TO CHANGE HIS/HER BEHAVIOR. That is the key. It's two way, but you thought I'm supporting violence.

You don't know what is happening in her life. Maybe it can be solved by more effort and talking. Why do you think it's ended? You also judged me by supporting violence against women. I also had similar family experience, but I still believe affection and patience can change people.

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Just now, lola20 said:

Then it's a completely different scenario than the one we are discussing.

I am not comparing it with polygamy. I just  quoted it to tell you how absurd some of these studies and their results can be.

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2 minutes ago, starlight said:

I am not comparing it with polygamy. I just  quoted it to tell you how absurd some of these studies and their results can be.

You didn't even read the study I provided to make such a determination.

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2 minutes ago, Karbalai110 said:

Sorry, I am pasting the link to the page of Nikaah Paper, please read clause number 21.

That's a nikahnama developed by the Sunni government,means nothing for us. It also gives women the right to divorce which doesn't apply to us so we can't go by this.

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