Divorce grounds

[Rayhana80]

Can a wife ask for divorce if her husband wants a second wife even if he agrees on supporting her financially? 

[Hassan-]

She needs her husbands permission to get a divorce. 

[shouzan]

What? a woman can ask for divorce just go to courts. Maybe different because i am in Canada, however i had a difficult nikah contract and i went to civil court and divorced. it wasn't easy but it was done. I suggest if your country won't allow you to do so, make headache for him until he gives tallaq, sorry guys but men can be very simple when it comes to touching their nerves and if u push him hard enough he will say it.

[Sisterfatima1]

Sister no offence you seem determined to destroy that brothers first marriage 

ok say he divorced his wife what would stop him from divorcing you later 

[AmirAlmuminin Lover]

54 minutes ago, shouzan said:

What? a woman can ask for divorce just go to courts. Maybe different because i am in Canada, however i had a difficult nikah contract and i went to civil court and divorced. it wasn't easy but it was done. I suggest if your country won't allow you to do so, make headache for him until he gives tallaq, sorry guys but men can be very simple when it comes to touching their nerves and if u push him hard enough he will say it.

Very inhumane

I never do that to my wife even if she is a monster. If I want to live, I live. If not after countless effort and talking, respectfully divirce her. Respecting her integrity is minimum thing I can do.

Edited February 13, 2018 by AmirAlmuminin Lover

[Rayhana80]

1 hour ago, shouzan said:

What? a woman can ask for divorce just go to courts. Maybe different because i am in Canada, however i had a difficult nikah contract and i went to civil court and divorced. it wasn't easy but it was done. I suggest if your country won't allow you to do so, make headache for him until he gives tallaq, sorry guys but men can be very simple when it comes to touching their nerves and if u push him hard enough he will say it.

Thank you for the input.. but even if getting on his nerve, he is adamant about not divorcing his first wife and he forcefully wants her to stay with him whether she like it or not .. he says a wife can not get Islamic divorce based on the grounds that her husband wants a second wife.. is it true?

[Abu Nur]

19 minutes ago, AmirAlmuminin Lover said:

Very inhumane

I never do that to my wife even if she is a monster. If I want to live, I live. If not after countless effort and talking, respectfully divirce her. Respecting her integrity is minimum thing I can do.

Have you ever married before?

[AmirAlmuminin Lover]

53 minutes ago, Dhulfikar said:

Have you ever married before?

Trying to make a headache for your spouse is inhumane. I don't think you support it.

Edited February 13, 2018 by AmirAlmuminin Lover

[shouzan]

8 minutes ago, Rayhana80 said:

Thank you for the input.. but even if getting on his nerve, he is adamant about not divorcing his first wife and he forcefully wants her to stay with him whether she like it or not .. he says a wife can not get Islamic divorce based on the grounds that her husband wants a second wife.. is it true?

A woman can ask for a divorce that is certain i am not sure what the requirements are for one however i am sorry.

[ShiaMan14]

2 hours ago, Hassan- said:

She needs her husbands permission to get a divorce. 

Can't she get khula (annulment) without his permission?

[ephemeral]

56 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

Can't she get khula (annulment) without his permission?

nope she can not.

[starlight]

3 hours ago, Rayhana80 said:

Can a wife ask for divorce if her husband wants a second wife even if he agrees on supporting her financially? 

No. This isn't valid grounds for an Islamic divorce. 

A wife can ask for divorce if she develops an aversion towards her husband to the extent that she cannot stand intimacy but husband's second marriage is not a valid ground for Islamic divorce unless she stipulated so at the time of nikkah.

[notme]

9 hours ago, Rayhana80 said:

Can a wife ask for divorce if her husband wants a second wife even if he agrees on supporting her financially? 

She can ask, but he doesn't have to agree. Muslim divorce and child custody laws are very troubling, actually. Only the man has the authority to divorce, and he can divorce without any reason. 

[notme]

6 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

Can't she get khula (annulment) without his permission?

Clearly you haven't read all the shiachat posts written by women stuck with a cruel man who won't divorce them.  If he has totally abandoned her for a long time - and by abandoned I mean no contact or financial support - she can petition a scholar to divorce her on his behalf. But no scholar will do that. 

For all practical purposes, a Muslim woman has no "right" to divorce under any circumstances. 

[andres]

9 hours ago, Rayhana80 said:

Can a wife ask for divorce if her husband wants a second wife even if he agrees on supporting her financially? 

A decent husband would ask his wife for permission to marry a second wife, and a decent nation would not allow this marriage without her accept. 

[Hassan-]

6 hours ago, starlight said:

unless she stipulated so at the time of nikkah.

Even if she stipulated it in the contract, she would still need his permission to get the divorce.

Edited February 13, 2018 by Hassan-

[Hassan-]

7 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

Can't she get khula (annulment) without his permission?

Generally speaking no, unless certain conditions are met.

[starlight]

34 minutes ago, Hassan- said:

Even if she stipulated it in the contract, she would still need his permission to get the divorce.

Yes, she would but at least that would be valid grounds according to sharia.

[rkazmi33]

1 hour ago, Hassan- said:

Even if she stipulated it in the contract, she would still need his permission to get the divorce.

What do you mean by that? I had stipulated it in my contract and a scholar announced divorce because of that. Why cannot she get divorce if she has the right to divorce? Of course a woman is asking for divorce because she has aversion for her husband. Does she need to provide some proof that she has developed aversion for her husband? You people are making it sound like it is impossible unless husband wants to. Please tell me that my religion is not so cruel to women. Why do scholars have these rules on their websites if these rules don't mean anything and they can be changed for anyone. What's the point of giving right to divorce to wife if she still needs that psycho husband's permission? 

Edited February 13, 2018 by rkazmi33

[starlight]

@rkazmi33 I think what he means is that husband has to consent to free the wife. If he is being unreasonable then things can be taken to a marjas's representative who has the authority to pronounce divorce without the husband's involvement or consent.

[Hassan-]

1 minute ago, rkazmi33 said:

What do you mean by that? I had stipulated it in my contract and a scholar announced divorce because of that. Why cannot she get divorce if she has the right to divorce? Of course a woman is asking for divorce because she has aversion for her husband. Does she need to provide some proof that she has developed aversion for her husband? You people are making it sound like it is impossible unless husband wants to. Please tell me that my religion is not so cruel to women. 

It means if a husband violates the marriage contract, it would not be a valid reason in shari'a for the women to divorce him without his permission.

If the women has in her marriage contract that her husband is not allowed to marry another wife, but the husband violated this condition and went on to marry another women, the husband would be sinning and be punished by Allah. However, even if he sinned, his second marriage would still be valid and his first wife does not get the power to divorce him without his permission.

[rkazmi33]

9 minutes ago, starlight said:

@rkazmi33 I think what he means is that husband has to consent to free the wife. If he is being unreasonable then things can be taken to a marjas's representative who has the authority to pronounce divorce without the husband's involvement or consent.

Great! First it was any scholar who could pronounce divorce. Now it has to be a marja's representative.

Dear OP! I have some good news for you. If you live in a western country, you can get a civil divorce and also a restraining order against that psycho. 

Edited February 13, 2018 by rkazmi33

[ShiaMan14]

1 hour ago, notme said:

Clearly you haven't read all the shiachat posts written by women stuck with a cruel man who won't divorce them.  If he has totally abandoned her for a long time - and by abandoned I mean no contact or financial support - she can petition a scholar to divorce her on his behalf. But no scholar will do that. 

For all practical purposes, a Muslim woman has no "right" to divorce under any circumstances. 

they get stuck because of our own lack of knowledge. At least the Nikah contract in Pakistan has a section that allows the woman to ask for khula but it gets crossed out by the maulanas and no one asks for it not to be crossed out.

So in theory, she has the right for khula but culturally it is not being handled right.

[starlight]

2 minutes ago, rkazmi33 said:

First it was any scholar who could pronounce divorce. Now it has to be a marja's representative.

As far as I know, maybe other molanas can do it too. I am not sure of that.

[starlight]

3 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

At least the Nikah contract in Pakistan has a section that allows the woman to ask for khula but it gets crossed out by the maulanas a

That clause holds no value when it comes to a Shia divorce.

[rkazmi33]

5 minutes ago, starlight said:

As far as I know, maybe other molanas can do it too. I am not sure of that.

My divorce was pronounced by a scholar because of right to divorce and he said it is irrevocable divorce. I don't think he was a marja's representative. I panicked because I thought now I have to go ask the representative of Marja. 

[Hamodiii]

People these days are mean.  

The husband gets a new wife, like it's from a store... and the women try to ruin it... 

Why can't people be nice to each other?

[Rayhana80]

25 minutes ago, Hassan- said:

It means if a husband violates the marriage contract, it would not be a valid reason in shari'a for the women to divorce him without his permission.

If the women has in her marriage contract that her husband is not allowed to marry another wife, but the husband violated this condition and went on to marry another women, the husband would be sinning and be punished by Allah. However, even if he sinned, his second marriage would still be valid and his first wife does not get the power to divorce him without his permission.

I disagree.. I know a girl got divorced from her husband because he used to mistreat her and beat her up.. she left the house and asked for divorce .. he was reluctant so she went to maulanas where they sent him letters and people to come sit with them to resolve the issue, but he never showed up on those meetings.. eventually after couple of meetings and they finally told her it’s over and she is free to marry again. Her husband was being very selfish and unreasonable to her, he didn’t want to divorce her neither he apologized for his behavior to make the situation better. 

[Hassan-]

17 minutes ago, Rayhana80 said:

I disagree.. I know a girl got divorced from her husband because he used to mistreat her and beat her up.. she left the house and asked for divorce .. he was reluctant so she went to maulanas where they sent him letters and people to come sit with them to resolve the issue, but he never showed up on those meetings.. eventually after couple of meetings and they finally told her it’s over and she is free to marry again. Her husband was being very selfish and unreasonable to her, he didn’t want to divorce her neither he apologized for his behavior to make the situation better. 

What you just said has nothing to do with what I said. I never said a women isn't allowed to divorce without husband's permission under any circumstances. A women can divorce her husband without his consent (with the permission of a shiekh) only if valid reasons in shari'a are met. What I was talking about is marriage contracts, where a husband violating a marriage contract is not a valid reason to divorce him without his permission.

[shouzan]

2 hours ago, Rayhana80 said:

I disagree.. I know a girl got divorced from her husband because he used to mistreat her and beat her up.. she left the house and asked for divorce .. he was reluctant so she went to maulanas where they sent him letters and people to come sit with them to resolve the issue, but he never showed up on those meetings.. eventually after couple of meetings and they finally told her it’s over and she is free to marry again. Her husband was being very selfish and unreasonable to her, he didn’t want to divorce her neither he apologized for his behavior to make the situation better. 

 

2 hours ago, Hassan- said:

What you just said has nothing to do with what I said. I never said a women isn't allowed to divorce without husband's permission under any circumstances. A women can divorce her husband without his consent (with the permission of a shiekh) only if valid reasons in shari'a are met. What I was talking about is marriage contracts, where a husband violating a marriage contract is not a valid reason to divorce him without his permission.

 

To Both of you, My Nikah contract made it impossible for me to divorce unless my husband asked. Because this was a condition he put into the contract with my father and i was not aware. However i took him to civil court and was granted a full Divorce.You can include a woman can file for divorce into a nikah contract . If a husband Violates the Nikah contract it does make the contract invalid. For example if Mahr isn't paid the marriage is voided. the OP needs to stop sleeping with her husband and file for divorce based on irreconcilable difference. Be smart ladies with your Nikah contracts and take control over your own life, thats why property should be in wife name for her and the children, a wife should even strive to make her own business or find a nice job and have her own savings and finances because she is her own person not an extension of her husband.  Think of Khadija Bint Khuwaylid she was a very successful business woman before and during her marriage to the Prophet Mohammed.

[rkazmi33]

3 minutes ago, shouzan said:

 

 

 thats why property should be in wife name for her and the children, a wife should even strive to make her own business or find a nice job and have her own savings and finances because she is her own person not an extension of her husband.  Think of Khadija Bint Khuwaylid she was a very successful business woman before and during her marriage to the Prophet Mohammed.

The example of Khadija is often used by men who want to be dependent upon women and don't want to do anything. A woman should be self-sufficient but it's unfair to expect from women to be able to earn so much money that they can be both father and mother and they have to raise the kids by themselves. If a man becomes a father, it's his responsibility to provide for his children, regardless of whether his wife stays with him or gets a divorce. 

[shouzan]

Just now, rkazmi33 said:

The example of Khadija is often used by men who want to be dependent upon women and don't want to do anything. A woman should be self-sufficient but it's unfair to expect from women to be able to earn so much money that they can be both father and mother and they have to raise the kids by themselves. If a man becomes a father, it's his responsibility to provide for his children, regardless of whether his wife stays with him or gets a divorce. 

of course i completely agree i defiantly wasn't asking women support themselves and their children. i am saying that a husband should provide for his family and wife, but the wife can have her own finances separately from her husband. I have savings accounts for each of my children and one for myself this is a smart way to protect yourself as a woman from any kind of financial abuse (and yes it is an actual type of abuse) or control. a Man SHOULD provide for his family! but a woman can provide things for herself too. and its actually great to be able to go out and buy ur husband a nice watch or new iPhone using your own money instead of spending his. 

[Hassan-]

8 minutes ago, shouzan said:

To Both of you, My Nikah contract made it impossible for me to divorce unless my husband asked. Because this was a condition he put into the contract with my father and i was not aware.

The husband does not need to put such a condition in the contract because he already has that right by default, unless he does something against the shari'a that gives the wife the right to divorce him without his consent.

 

13 minutes ago, shouzan said:

You can include a woman can file for divorce into a nikah contract .

No, you can't. Please provide a fatwa from a marja' to prove your claim. Here is a fatwa from Imam Khamenei:

Quote

Q: Can the wife stipulate in the marriage contract that she has the power to divorce the husband if he breaks one of the conditions? If yes, than if the husband broke a condition does he not have the power to revoke the divorce or contract anymore?

A: Divorce right can not be delegated to the wife [i.e. so that she divorces herself later on her behalf]. However, the husband can give his wife the power of attorney to divorce herself on his behalf if he does not abide by one of the terms mentioned within the marriage contract.

 

 

[rkazmi33]

5 minutes ago, shouzan said:

of course i completely agree i defiantly wasn't asking women support themselves and their children. i am saying that a husband should provide for his family and wife, but the wife can have her own finances separately from her husband. I have savings accounts for each of my children and one for myself this is a smart way to protect yourself as a woman from any kind of financial abuse (and yes it is an actual type of abuse) or control. a Man SHOULD provide for his family! but a woman can provide things for herself too. and its actually great to be able to go out and buy ur husband a nice watch or new iPhone using your own money instead of spending his. 

If husband earns money, he wouldn't care about his wife buying gifts from her money. If he doesn't earn money, then wife is really spoiling her husband who will become entitled. Again, some women can earn a lot of money but most of women cannot earn so much money and they shouldn't have to feel that they can only earn freedom and independence if they earn a lot of money. If the husband is not providing financial support, then what is the point of having a husband. I think women can do a better job at raising their kids when they are single mothers. 

[shouzan]

2 hours ago, rkazmi33 said:

If husband earns money, he wouldn't care about his wife buying gifts from her money. If he doesn't earn money, then wife is really spoiling her husband who will become entitled. Again, some women can earn a lot of money but most of women cannot earn so much money and they shouldn't have to feel that they can only earn freedom and independence if they earn a lot of money. If the husband is not providing financial support, then what is the point of having a husband. I think women can do a better job at raising their kids when they are single mothers. 

The point of having a husband is not as a bank account, its to have someone to love, grow and spend your life with. And to be honest i like having my own money and my own ability to spend it where and when i chose. What kind of a person doesn't like buying the person they love a birthday or anniversary gift? 

2 hours ago, Hassan- said:

The husband does not need to put such a condition in the contract because he already has that right by default, unless he does something against the shari'a that gives the wife the right to divorce him without his consent.

 

No, you can't. Please provide a fatwa from a marja' to prove your claim. Here is a fatwa from Imam Khamenei:

 

 

I live in Canada, therefore i can file for divorce if i chose to. Again i speak from my own experience in CANADA.

1. Though, the wife does not have a right to pronounce Talaq unless such a power is delegated to her by her husband at the time of contracting marriage, all the same she is given a right to seek divorce through intervention of the court on the grounds pleaded by her, or by mutual consent on the terms agreed by the parties.