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In the Name of God بسم الله
ireallywannaknow

Should we have kids if we live in the West?

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When I lived in east, I often read or heard stories like: Prophet (A.S.) came to a person's dream and He looked very sad, And He said 'today 10000 Muslims passed away and only 200 of them had Iman'. The point is it's very hard to remain Muslim and very few people have Iman when they die. I am confused about this new idea that hundreds of millions of Muslims living in east are all perfect Muslims and there's something seriously wrong with the few million people living in west. In east, people commit murders, rape, beat their wives for many years and commit all kinds of sins. I have seen many people in my parents' generation who stopped praying/ fasting for 20, 25 years. It was because they had so many responsibilities or they were probably dealing with very hard tests and they lost faith. But they couldn't express their lack of faith because apostates can get killed in eastern countries. Now these people are old and they have become very religious. So people in west may also become religious in old age or whenever their lives get easier. I was most religious in my 20s when I was living in west. I became less religious not because of west but because of hypocrisy of religious people and all those religious people are always telling me that I am apostate, and a sinner. I pray, fast, wear hijab, go to majlis,  I really don't understand why are people so worried about my faith. Can we please stop pretending that hundreds of millions of Muslims living in east are all perfect Muslims and they are all going to heaven? 

Edited by rkazmi33

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1 minute ago, Mohamed1993 said:

Don't know if I agree with this, in Muslim countries people pretend to be religious but I think a lot of stuff happens underground. I don't think there is a perfect place on earth. In many ways it can be worse in the Muslim world, because people's curiosity makes them even more rebellious. 

Well brother, the west is a huge place made of different countries and each of these countries different regions, my opinion is formed on what I experience in daily life for you its differently.

2 minutes ago, Mohamed1993 said:

This may sound morbid but I really question why people even have kids, such an ugly world to bring them into, we're destroying each other and the planet with it too.

I completely agree there are many orphans in Iraq and Syria I would take care of them before having more kids.

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Overtime minorities tend to assimilate unless they are isolated from the rest of the population. Take jews for example, in Europe and the US most of them do not practice their religion at all and are just like non-jews. Jews are in fact the most irreligious religious group. The groups that are religious typically isolated themselves from the rest of society as to not assimilate and they still survive till now. But there there is a big difference with jews, jews are primarily an ethnicity (in practice) than a religious group although they are an ethno-religious group. If they lose their religion they retain their identity as jews. But Islam is not judaism. The reality is that it seems overtime in the west more and more Muslims will leave Islam. I wonder if the decline of religiosity is tied to the culture or simply because western nations are modern industrial nations. If it is a latter obviously this spells disaster for all Muslim countries as well.

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59 minutes ago, Shi3i_jadeed said:

I wonder if the decline of religiosity is tied to the culture or simply because western nations are modern industrial nations. If it is a latter obviously this spells disaster for all Muslim countries as well.

Industrialization and using technology should not cause somebody to abandon faith, whether it's Islam or some other religion. I think it's mostly a cultural issue if anything else.

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10 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Industrialization and using technology should not cause somebody to abandon faith, whether it's Islam or some other religion. I think it's mostly a cultural issue if anything else.

Obviously it shouldn't but does it? It seems to move the world towards more of a mono-culture, a secular mono-culture. I don't think you can separate technology and culture as culture is formed by the technology that is in use to a certain degree. There is also the reality that the culture with industrial development has power and influence. The west also had this influence through colonialism I mean why do you think Muslims abolished slavery or gave up some other practices? 

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Things people do not know goes on:

1. A lot of Shia men and women date. Thanks to social media, phones, and ease of communication this has become much easier. I have extensive contacts and i know what goes on , and  people who are heads of events, people who are presidents of Absocs, people who are 'so pious mashAllah' are all victim to this. 

2. Sayed Hadi Qazwini mentioned the culture of women and male celebrities. This goes on a lot actually, and many do this, and make particularly crude and inappropriate comments, and the ones you think are 'so pious mashAllah'. It is rampant and frequent to the extent people also make comments like that about spouses of their friends. Some of the things said privately is actually just pure filth. Just underlines the fact deep down we are all animals, and it is Islam and our higher sense of morality that elevates us. Even the so-called 'so pious mashAllah' types.

3. Religion to Shias these days tends to be the Muharram act, but then the same Shias cake on faces full of make up, flirt with guys, listen to music frequently, and this is all common. 

4. A lack of connection towards scholars. Many scholars don't seem to address direct problems of the youth today, such as the fact age of marriage is now in mid to late 20s, and men and women are expected to live totally halal lives until then. That is only asking for trouble and i'd say one of the underlying root causes of a lot of the Fitnah. People don't think religion is a legitimate and practical element , so they look towards other forms sadly.

Of course, this is not to generalise everybody, but it is common enough to raise alarm.

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6 hours ago, Shi3i_jadeed said:

Obviously it shouldn't but does it? It seems to move the world towards more of a mono-culture, a secular mono-culture. I don't think you can separate technology and culture as culture is formed by the technology that is in use to a certain degree. There is also the reality that the culture with industrial development has power and influence. The west also had this influence through colonialism I mean why do you think Muslims abolished slavery or gave up some other practices? 

Hmm, I disagree, from what I've observed, even if technology seems to be pushing towards a mono-culture, the way we use technology is coloured by our cultural differences. It will be a very, very long time before the concept of culture is truly extinguished.

As for the boldened part, you do realize that the same colonial powers that you want to say ended slavery in the Islamic world, upheld and even tried sustain slavery in parts of Africa, just ask the Congolese what kind of atrocities they suffered under Belgian rule. Raped, beaten and shot for rubber.

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This is a hard question, however good your parenting is, the environment will affect your children to some degree, this is the truth.

If you are not actively working to establish and further Islam in a non islamic environment, then I find it hard to motivate not moving.

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On 2018-02-08 at 4:32 PM, ireallywannaknow said:

Bismillah

I was just listening to an Islamic lecture and the sheikh made an interesting/ scary point. He said that (like everyone knows) Islam is the fastest growing religion. However he said in the west, statistics show that people are abandoning Islam at the same rate as people are entering. So it got me thinking... that must mean that it is mostly people who are raised Muslim that are going away from Islam. And all around me I am seeing people with good Islamic upbringings turning from Islam and it is really scaring me. So I feel like the chances that children raised in the West will grow up to be practicing Muslims is very slim. So what do you think? Should we think twice about bringing children into this world when the odds are so against us? Will we be held accountable when we know that this is a toxic environment? 

If you are good parents and teach your children proper values than there is no issue raising your children here while  instilling the values and practices of Islam. 

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On 2018-02-09 at 9:38 PM, Mohamed1993 said:

Don't know if I agree with this, in Muslim countries people pretend to be religious but I think a lot of stuff happens underground. I don't think there is a perfect place on earth. In many ways it can be worse in the Muslim world, because people's curiosity makes them even more rebellious. This may sound morbid but I really question why people even have kids, such an ugly world to bring them into, we're destroying each other and the planet with it too. 

TBH all this is very true, I lived many many years in two Islamic countries and children and young adults act religious infront of their parents and still leave the house to meet girl/boyfriends and they text and snap them, among drinking, removing hijab and yes even sex, especially anal sex i have noticed to be a BIG thing. Private parties with cross dressers, [Edited Out]es, and liquor. It does happen I know for a fact from a group of very reliable sources.  

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57 minutes ago, shouzan said:

TBH all this is very true, I lived many many years in two Islamic countries and children and young adults act religious infront of their parents and still leave the house to meet girl/boyfriends and they text and snap them, among drinking, removing hijab and yes even sex, especially anal sex i have noticed to be a BIG thing. Private parties with cross dressers, [Edited Out]es, and liquor. It does happen I know for a fact from a group of very reliable sources.  

Yes but there is a big difference between sin that is open and promoted in society and sin that is kept private. Obviously the former is worse than the latter. 

Edited by ireallywannaknow

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Just now, ireallywannaknow said:

Yes but I there is a big difference between sin that is open and promoted in society and sin that is kept private. Obviously the former is worse than the latter. 

We are all surrounded by sin every day, it doesn't matter if it is apparent or not. You can raise a good wholesome muslim family in a non Islamic country. and your reward will be much greater because you have been in such an open environment. 

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1 minute ago, shouzan said:

We are all surrounded by sin every day, it doesn't matter if it is apparent or not. You can raise a good wholesome muslim family in a non Islamic country. and your reward will be much greater because you have been in such an open environment. 

I think you're underestimating how much of an influence the environment and society can have on a child to take them from religion despite a good Islamic upbringing. 

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