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In the Name of God بسم الله
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Iranian women protest compulsory hijab

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Just now, Mishael said:

Problem is only Muslims documented the history of pre Islamic Arabia in detail so it's hard to tell how much was fake and how much was true.

That's not how historiography works brother...

That's like saying we can't really trust the Native American accounts because they're native American. Historiography is a science of its own. It is like how we have Ilm-ul-Hadith, the Knowledge of Narrations. As Shias we look into the people who are within the chain of the narration and see their biography. (This is called Ilm-Ul-Rijal, the knowledge of men.) We don't accept ANY hadith, we set specific standards on whom to take ahadith from.

How do we know then what Alexander the Great did was true? Or if William Wallace existed/fought for the Scottish rights? You need to learn about Historiography before you make claims like that. You're basically calling Muslim historians liars right now.

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23 minutes ago, Mishael said:

No all Christians know the Old Testament was never apart of Christianity Jesus said I fulfilled the law it means he completed the Old Testament so it's done, Matthew talks about the genealogy of Jesus so I don't know how that's relevant.

my last answer to you:

Check the legitimacy of that list.

How many of them are illegitimate?

That's what you Christians lack, you only accept what your elders tell you, you don't think, research or investigate the truth.

Besides if you only believe in the new testament, then I tell you that Jesus told this in the Matthew 23:39 to the Pharisis who he was debating with:

For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'"
 

it means they never saw the Jesus again, yet Matthew 27:32-56 speaks of their presence at the time when Jesus was cruxified.

It means that either Jesus was lying which means the Jews were right or they cruxify someone else which means the truth of the Gospel of Barnabas 215.

 

Yet I am sure you will neither accept this fact nor even bother yourself checking it out, all you will do is denying. For you don't seem a researcher to me.

Edited by Hidaren

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7 minutes ago, Mishael said:

Who said western cloths? I said if their culture teaches to force things on people I have a right to tell them that they shouldn't force them. Tolerance for intolerance is wrong. If they force women to wear certain clothes I'm not going to jut say well it's there culture no what's wrong is wrong wheather an Iranian or an American is doing it.

Well in fact pratically ALL CULTURES force a limit clothers for people this is the point i try to explain to you since a long moment .

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1 hour ago, Hidaren said:

Hassan Rouhani is a disqualified president, he does nothing for the country and he is just buying time and abusing situations to misdirect the people's minds. He was the first man to force women to wear hijab in Iran as he wrote in his memoir book and later he said:" There are some who want to force women to wear hijab, I know them, they are villains and ... :D " just for the sake of a handful of votes.

And now the national currency value is decreasing and people seek an answer from him, to make a divergent, he uses everything he gets, once it is Imam Mahdi(af) by saying:" If Imam of Era comes, we will criticize him" the other time hijab.

BTW each day he says something to postpone answering and that's how he runs the country.

5 years ago he said I have a 100-days plan to fix the economy and now plenty of that 100 days has passed and he did nothing and every year he says:" Next year, the economy will be better and we will do ... in future and ... " :D

He reminds me of Gorbachev of the Soviet Union and Yeltsin as well.

It is not fair to talk about president Rohani like that. He is trying his best but the problems are very complicated. He is not going to misdirect people! At least he is better than Mr. Ahmadinejad.

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8 hours ago, Mishael said:

I myself was raised a Muslim I have never met Christian priests or met Christian elders or prayed in a church in my life why can't I do these things well according to Sharia I can't. Is that right to you we're discussing hijab in Muslim countries because other cultures do something doesn't mean you should do it too. Not all cultures force people to wear certain cloths that's biased information. Pre Islamic Iran did not have its own enforced dress code although women did cover up it wasn't something mandatory. Cultures preside certain dress codes doesn't mean they enforce it.

Nowadays in West we cant go outside naked so they enforce a kind of clothes to us and if we dont do that they will arrest you for  being against public modesty. Also this is wrong i heard many times people being asked by priests to have better clothes before to enter in a church and i dont think they will say to you you could wear nothing or totally like you want outside dude.

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5 minutes ago, alidu78 said:

like humans learn to their children to wear correctly.

That's a good answer! I mean my family had their own experience with the issue of Hijab! It was solved, subhanallah in a way that you can call a miracle! Or rather it is a miracle! My point is... Instead of trying to just convince them, rise your hand and ask Allah for help! He accepts all duas, don't you remember?

Edited by Hamodiii

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3 minutes ago, Hamodiii said:

That's a good answer! I mean my family had their own experience with the issue of Hijab! It was solved, subhanallah in a way that you can call a miracle! Or rather it is a miracle! My point is... Instead of trying to just convince them, rise your hand and ask Allah for help! He accepts all duas, don't you remember?

i think problem is that you are born in sweden which is among the most secular western country in the world so that doesnt help to be fine with islamic standards.

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2 minutes ago, alidu78 said:

i think problem is that you are born in sweden which is among the most secular western country in the world so that doesnt help to be fine with islamic standards.

Yeah, It is. That is why I want to get out of here!

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6 minutes ago, alidu78 said:

Could i ask if there are many muslims and shias in sweden ?

Yeah, quite many actually, we have majalis like 10 mins from us with a car, It was organized by Iraqis before, now young people from Afghan take care of everything! It is a blessing! They are young, like around 20,  and they do everything! May Allah grant them success!

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10 minutes ago, Hamodiii said:

Yeah, quite many actually, we have majalis like 10 mins from us with a car, It was organized by Iraqis before, now young people from Afghan take care of everything! It is a blessing! They are young, like around 20,  and they do everything! May Allah grant them success!

Yeah I heard that there are many Muslim refuges coming in Sweden and than in 2050 this country could be anything like 30 % Muslim. 

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3 minutes ago, alidu78 said:

Yeah I heard that there are many Muslim refuges coming in Sweden and than in 2050 this country could be anything like 30 % Muslim. 

Maybe not, the party that is the goverment atm is increasing, they despise Muslims! Cause Arabs come and ''steal'' their jobs and women. And the fact that happends in the media! They got like around 20% of the votes! When we don't work ''They say, you steal our money, and when we work, we steal their jobs, never ending circle!''.

Edited by Hamodiii

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17 minutes ago, Hamodiii said:

Maybe not, the party that is the goverment atm is increasing, they despise Muslims! Cause Arabs come and ''steal'' their jobs and women. And the fact that happends in the media! They got like around 20% of the votes! When we don't work ''They say, you steal our money, and when we work, we steal their jobs, never ending circle!''.

Inshallah sweden will be one day in majority muslim.

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On 2/5/2018 at 7:47 PM, Hamodiii said:

True, It has displayed on the west, the persian women change and become like the west, they blend in. They are really loved by the swedish people. 

You know why? Because they integrate with Swedes, they forget about their culture and religion, have you noticed that none of them are religious and all of them have Swedish names? 

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1 hour ago, Mishael said:

Yes I myself think it's better to see women to cover inside the church but if a women doesn't want to cover her hair I can't force her too. If she wants to come in naked the priest should tell her no obviously. I'm not saying people can do whatever they want but atleast let people choose to wear a head scarve or not let them choose their religion let them practice their religion freely let them say as they wish without the threat of death.

You intolerant! You don't want that people do and wear what they want shame on you! 

More seriously here you are showing yourself that for you there must have some acceptable limits for modesty k  clothes. Just remember that Muslims have also limits but in different manners. It is simple as that. But i think I lost my time with you, you probably understand nothing of what I mean. 

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1 hour ago, Walidgaleb said:

You know why? Because they integrate with Swedes, they forget about their culture and religion, have you noticed that none of them are religious and all of them have Swedish names? 

Some arabs have changed their names, but they only do that to get a job, otherwise they won't accept the appilcation... I will never change my name! If I did I would change it to Mahdi, for sure!

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Just now, Hamodiii said:

Some arabs have changed their names, but they only do that to get a job, otherwise they won't accept the appilcation... I will never change my name! If I did I would change it to Mahdi, for sure!

I don’t mean to change, they are born with Swedish names. Iranian parents name their kids “Ida, Hanna, Emma” and so on, and arabs hold strongly to their culture and religion but it seems that the Iranians just let’s go if it. 

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Good thing we have the NY times for the absolute truth regarding the Iranian peoples opinion... come on guys...

Every news agency has a owner and everyone has their own agenda. 

7 hours ago, Walidgaleb said:

You know why? Because they integrate with Swedes, they forget about their culture and religion, have you noticed that none of them are religious and all of them have Swedish names? 

Dont generalize please. My mother (Iranian) came to the country in 1988 and she still wears her hijab and she still has her name. But she also speaks the language of the land fluently and has a job.

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1 minute ago, IbnSina said:

Dont generalize please. My mother (Iranian) came to the country in 1988 and she still wears her hijab and she still has her name. But she also speaks the language of the land fluently and has a job.

Sorry brother, I was just talking about my experience with my friends in Sweden who comes from Persian families. What country do you live in? 

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1 hour ago, Walidgaleb said:

I don’t mean to change, they are born with Swedish names. Iranian parents name their kids “Ida, Hanna, Emma” and so on, and arabs hold strongly to their culture and religion but it seems that the Iranians just let’s go if it. 

Some are like that, my neighbours are from Iran/Iraq, and they are religious people, I think. Their father is a shiekh.

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1 hour ago, Walidgaleb said:

Sorry brother, I was just talking about my experience with my friends in Sweden who comes from Persian families. What country do you live in? 

Are you swedish?

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10 hours ago, Walidgaleb said:

Sorry brother, I was just talking about my experience with my friends in Sweden who comes from Persian families. What country do you live in? 

From what I saw on social media and some friends living in Sweden most Iranians in Sweden are kuffars and murtads and think and acts exactly like swedes. 

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On 2/6/2018 at 11:52 AM, Hamodiii said:

 @alidu78 

Brother, one question, and answer honestly?

Would you force your daughters to wear headscarf when they get 9? :/ Just asking? 

@Hamodiii assalam brother.

yes i will do for many reasons.

O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.

يٰۤـاَيُّهَا النَّبِىُّ قُلْ لِّاَزۡوَاجِكَ وَبَنٰتِكَ وَنِسَآءِ الۡمُؤۡمِنِيۡنَ يُدۡنِيۡنَ عَلَيۡهِنَّ مِنۡ جَلَابِيۡبِهِنَّ ؕ ذٰ لِكَ اَدۡنٰٓى اَنۡ يُّعۡرَفۡنَ فَلَا يُؤۡذَيۡنَ ؕ وَكَانَ اللّٰهُ غَفُوۡرًا رَّحِيۡمًا‏ ﴿33:59﴾

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And tell the believing women to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts and not expose their adornment except that which [necessarily] appears thereof and to wrap [a portion of] their headcovers over their chests and not expose their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, their brothers' sons, their sisters' sons, their women, that which their right hands possess, or those male attendants having no physical desire, or children who are not yet aware of the private aspects of women. And let them not stamp their feet to make known what they conceal of their adornment. And turn to Allah in repentance, all of you, O believers, that you might succeed. 

nur ayat 31.

O you who have believed, do not enter the houses of the Prophet except when you are permitted for a meal, without awaiting its readiness. But when you are invited, then enter; and when you have eaten, disperse without seeking to remain for conversation. Indeed, that [behavior] was troubling the Prophet, and he is shy of [dismissing] you. But Allah is not shy of the truth. And when you ask [his wives] for something, ask them from behind a partition. That is purer for your hearts and their hearts. And it is not [conceivable or lawful] for you to harm the Messenger of Allah or to marry his wives after him, ever. Indeed, that would be in the sight of Allah an enormity.

ahzab ayat 53

sadly the english translation isnt good enough to gives you the real meaning of the arabic words, you can also check Tafsirs about these verses.

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On 2/6/2018 at 12:47 PM, Mishael said:

Multiple sources record Alexander the greats conquests even Persian and Indian ones while Muslims only have their word for it. By the way even some Greek sources lied about Alexander by portraying him as some godlike hero while he wasn't really like that and they said that Alexander fought a million Persians at Gaugemela while modern sources estimate a hundred thousand Persians or even less. Muslims also exaggerated the fighters of the battle of muta by saying that the Muslims fought 200,000 Byzantines while the whole Byzantine army did not even equal such a number at the time modern estimates say it was 10,000 Byzantines and Christian Arabs or even less. Ancient historians were known to exaggerate events a lot throughout history and the fact we only have the Muslims word for it proves we can't trust it and the fact pre Islamic poetry never mentions female infanticide rests my case.

First, and most importantly, you need to state your sources so we could look into the matter. And your example is quite ridiculous. It really doesn't speak about anything of faith. In fact, it is quite logical that the numbers of how many people the Muslims/Greeks fought would be exaggerated. You go to a war, you see the opponent's soldiers stretch farther than yours and you'll immediately over exaggerate the number. You think after a battle people walk around counting the bodies? And why does the number matter? What does it prove? And most importantly, who reported this number? What is the chain of the narration and what have the narrators said about the chain.

Secondly, as I have mentioned, you need to state who these exaggerators are because we have something called Ilm-ul-Rijal. You are claiming that as Muslims we believe ANY Muslim. That's not the case. This is not how historiography works.

And thirdly, pre-Islamic society not talking about it doesn't really prove you're correct. It states the following:

  • The act was seen as normal, mundane, unimportant to be reported
  • Everyday life was no talked about, it is only romanticising certain important things
  • We have not found documentation about it because it has been lost

There are so many reasons why these things aren't reported.

How can I trust the bible? The people who wrote the bible are apparently Jesus's friends, how can it be truthful and not over exaggerated? What proofs can you give that these people were Jesus's friends? Do you have historical writings by the Romans and Jews talking about each person? How do we know each event that happened in the bible are truthful? Did the Jews and Romans document them as well? And if not, then who was there? The narrator himself? Who is the narrator and what's his biography according to both sides of the coin?

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13 hours ago, Haimid said:

@Hamodiii assalam brother.

yes i will do for many reasons.

O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.

يٰۤـاَيُّهَا النَّبِىُّ قُلْ لِّاَزۡوَاجِكَ وَبَنٰتِكَ وَنِسَآءِ الۡمُؤۡمِنِيۡنَ يُدۡنِيۡنَ عَلَيۡهِنَّ مِنۡ جَلَابِيۡبِهِنَّ ؕ ذٰ لِكَ اَدۡنٰٓى اَنۡ يُّعۡرَفۡنَ فَلَا يُؤۡذَيۡنَ ؕ وَكَانَ اللّٰهُ غَفُوۡرًا رَّحِيۡمًا‏ ﴿33:59﴾

Well, what If they live in the west, and get influenced by the west? They might rebel, and become worse girls than you thought they would be? Maybe you could have at least teach them?

Personally, my parents only prayed, and my sister experienced a Noor that told her that she should wear hijab, and my other sisters followed her footsteps. Don't you believe in Allah's capablity to do anything? That is what I am talking about! I am not against Hijab, I just dislike the force.

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6 hours ago, Hamodiii said:

Maybe you could have at least teach them?

Assalam.

one of the way of teaching, is Forcing, just like the time when you force a horse to teach him your commands. we dosnt have a complete freedom in Islam, "Jabr and Ekhtiar" section in our A'aghayid explains this matter very clearly.

and by forcing, dont think that im talking about Physical forces. nope, sometimes its about forcing them to think and reading some books. once again, i hope you got my point.

Wassalam.

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