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In the Name of God بسم الله
Hamodiii

Women, does looks matter to you?

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6 hours ago, starlight said:

Not that I don't feel sympathy for her or am justifying what his brother did but what actions of were misunderstood, exactly?

People thought she did everything for attention but she did it for money because her family demanded a lot of money. She couldn't become more 'respectable' movie or tv star because she didn't have the 'talent'. Her only other option was prostitution and she didn't want to do that. In her mind she was being honest and she probably didn't know the religious rule that sinning in public is worse. Women in Pakistan do far worse things than her but they do everything in private. She was killed only because she was stupid. 

Edited by rkazmi33

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I require a minimum of a 9 for character. On this I will not compromise. I did before, and it didn't go well. 

For personality, I'll accept a 5 or higher. Average is ok, charming is dangerous, but a boor is a bore. 

But a man would have to have excellent character, a 10 at least, and a good personality, for me to accept intelligence below 7. 

As I said before, I prefer average looks, but I'll compromise. A man who spends his life in the gym is wasting it on vanity, and nobody who has endured any real hardship will keep their physical beauty. In my experience pretty people have either never lived any life, or are shallow. There are exceptions. I know a woman who has lived one of the hardest lives that I know of, and remains lovely in appearance. I think a cheerful disposition does more for appearance than any physical feature.

_____

Also, does anyone besides me find it a little funny that men vociferously answered a question specifically addressed to women? 

Edited by notme
Typo

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If this is only character(8-9)and looks  (5-6).. but we all know that women's demand list is way much more than this!! And of course their diverse nature :dry: I got the mood swings every time I want to use these ratings (demand swings also) :rolleyes:

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20 minutes ago, Fakeha said:

If this is only character(8-9)and looks  (5-6).. but we all know that women's demand list is way much more than this!! And of course their diverse nature :dry: I got the mood swings every time I want to use these ratings (demand swings also) :rolleyes:

So you find your husband hot one day, and ugly the next?

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1 hour ago, Hamodiii said:

Well, are there any statistic about that?

Why would you need one? It's common sense. Say maybe the wife is tired or the husband has done something insensitive - or any of a hundred or more other things - that will decrease his attractiveness to her. Or suppose she's particularly cheerful or he has just done something really sweet and admirable - that will increase his attractiveness.

That why when a man is trying to "win" a woman's heart, he only shows his good attributes and he hides his bad ones. (And yes, women do it too.)

Edited by notme
Typo

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1 minute ago, notme said:

Why would you need one? It's common sense. Say maybe the wife is tired or the husband has done something insensitive - or any of a hundred or more other things - that will decrease his attractiveness to her. It suppose she's particularly cheerful or he has just done something really sweet and admirable - that will increase his attractiveness.

That why when a man is trying to "win" a woman's heart, he only shows his good attributes and he hides his bad ones. (And yes, women do it too.)

So you are telling me that I need to put effort to win a woman's heart? :(

Nah, just joking, It is a duty for us men to please our wives!

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4 hours ago, notme said:

In my experience pretty people have either never lived any life, or are shallow. There are exceptions. I know a woman who has lived one of the hardest lives that I know of, and remains lovely in appearance

My experience has been the opposite. People who have survived hardships are better and younger looking than those who had it easy. I can't pinpoint the reason, maybe it's because they have tougher genes or during the process of survival developed a positive mental attitude and the practice of taking care of themselves better. 

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4 hours ago, notme said:

As I said before, I prefer average looks, but I'll compromise. A man who spends his life in the gym is wasting it on vanity, and nobody who has endured any real hardship will keep their physical beauty. In my experience pretty people have either never lived any life, or are shallow. There are exceptions. I know a woman who has lived one of the hardest lives that I know of, and remains lovely in appearance. I think a cheerful disposition does more for appearance than any physical feature.

_____

 

Any man who goes to the gym because his intention is to be more desirable to the opposite gender is making an enormously grave error - put aside such a thing is questionable islamically.

The idea of going to the gym is to improve ones self. If you are over-weight, you get to a good weight, gain strength, release endorphins, feel good and have a consistent goal you work towards. If you're skinny it's the same. The idea is you consistently work towards a goal, it gives you a vision, and you get confidence as you feel stronger and have a better body image - for yourself.

Now, if this then means you can be more yourself, deal with social anxiety better feel more confident and as a side-effect , people are able to see that , that's great. If as a side effect it helps you in another way, great as well.

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24 minutes ago, starlight said:

My experience has been the opposite. People who have survived hardships are better and younger looking than those who had it easy. I can't pinpoint the reason, maybe it's because they have tougher genes or during the process of survival developed a positive mental attitude and the practice of taking care of themselves better. 

Nah, the reason is plain obvious. It is cause they have happy, a harship will make you go through a lot and when you surpass it, you will be enlightend and happy.

May Allah bless every soul that suffers.

Edited by Hamodiii

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The crux of the matter is, no sister on here is going to come onto an online forum and publicly admit to things like: Jaw-line, height, masculine features, physique and the like. This is understandable, given that admitting these things may make them feel others will judge them as vain or the like. The only way to obtain true answers is by looking at the science, studies performed again and again, repeated, and published in peer reviewed journals - hence my posts , to present the actual reality.

Now one can claim Allah did not create this, but it was all the result of random mutation and natural selection. Or perhaps a hybrid of theistic evolution, or perhaps even out and out instantaneous creation with these biological and psychological realities.  However, i believe it was none other than Allah who has done this, originated, or guided such things to occur.

So what does it mean?

1. The good news that thanks to Islam, thanks to our faith, we can seek deeper things, we can plan from the hereafter and should not totally be chained  to these biologically programmed wants.

2. Despite looks being subconsciously important, other factors for the average Muslim will take precedence, and i daresay for anyone really, but more so for Muslims.

3. However, we can not ignore our biological realities. Men can be brutal when it comes to rejecting simply based on looks. The truth is, women can be too, and everyone should in a halal manner maximise what they have, first and foremost, for their own well being. If we cover our ears with cotton wool and pretend Allah did not create the biological and psychological realities in the respective genders, and then refuse to acknowledge they exist it's not going to be practical.

 

Therefore a purely scientific discussion will give you the cut-throat answer using many different studies on what women want. Some women may not be happy with these appearing, for one reason or another, but this is how they are programmed biologically.  However, we aren't pure science. We are human beings , we are Muslims, there is much more to it than that, and far more factors to strive for then merely the exterior. However a lot of peoples hearts will be broken if they don't recognise a big reason for potential disinterest when it comes to proposals can be looks. This happens when men reject women all the time, and also vice versa. It happens more often than one would think. 

 

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11 hours ago, yasahebalzaman.313 said:

From the Personal observation that i did throughout the years, I noticed that men care for the looks much more than women, but on the other hand if a women finds a decent man she doesn't mind compromising the physical standards she wanted. However you find that if the physical appearance of a women doesn't appeal a man he wouldn't agree to talk to her in the first place.

 Women do have it harder when it comes to marriage i don't doubt that. 

So it's pretty hypocritically for men, who lets face it, will place great importance on how she looks before agreeing to a proposal or meeting or getting to know, to turn around and think women aren't programmed to also want certain features. The reality is, Woman are just good at hiding it or in a sense watering down in words out of shyness, fear of being called shallow and judged. They are also more willing to compromise , particularly if they feel the potential suitor can commit, can be loyal, and can give them a stable life (money/providing) doesn't have to be very rich though, although for many women status/wealth will help. 

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2 hours ago, Hamodiii said:

So you are telling me that I need to put effort to win a woman's heart? :(

Nah, just joking, It is a duty for us men to please our wives!

Here's another thing you aren't going to get told:

1. Do not put women on the pedestal. 

If a woman sees you are constantly going out of your way to do things, constantly making things one sided, constantly putting in the most effort and attention, she will lose respect for you subconsciously. When getting to know in a halal setting, or even a marriage, it has to be no more than 50/50.  You build your life, your hobbies, your vision, and your direction, and the right person can come along. This doesn't mean one isn't compassionate, dutiful, and caring. 

If you're too nice, that isn't going to help you. Allah has created women such that they want their husbands to be their leaders, they derive security from them. So you need to work on yourself and build a life she can come into, rather than being so nice and making it revolve around her. In a marriage, or in getting to know, if you disagree politely say you disagree. Don't nod to everything and be willing to have your own ground - but respectfully.

This is why i say lifting is one of the best things someone can do. It's not all about the physique, but it's about regaining other traits of masculinity. It's about gaining strong-willed determination, commitment, confidence, perseverance and your own direction and life.

Edited by Intellectual Resistance

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Just now, Intellectual Resistance said:

Here's another thing you aren't going to get told:

1. Do not put women on the pedestal. 

If a woman sees you are constantly going out of your way to do things, constantly making things one sided, constantly putting in the most effort and attention, she will lose respect for you subconsciously. When getting to know in a halal setting, or even a marriage, it has to be no more than 50/50.  You build your life, your hobbies, your vision, and your direction, and the right person can come along. This doesn't mean one isn't compassionate, dutiful, and caring. 

If you're too nice, that isn't going to help you. Allah has created women such that they want their husbands to be their leaders, they derive security from them. So you need to work on yourself and build a life she can come into, rather than being so nice and making it revolve around her. In a marriage, or in getting to know, if you disagree politely say you disagree. Don't nod to everything and be willing to have your own ground - but respectfully.

Yeah, I know.

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The fact is that for men, looks matter and for women, looks don't matter. Also, in eastern culture looks matter more and for people from western culture, looks don't matter. Everyone has their own preference, let people decide what's best for them. I think men or eastern people don't want to be called superficial, so they are trying to literally shove this idea down everyone's throat that looks matter to everyone and it's natural. Anyone who denies it, is telling a lie. For me, looks don't matter but I am surrounded by eastern people and I am sick of saying it again and again but people just don't want to accept it. They keep suspecting that my idea of good looks is different, so I like different kind of look, but I have to like good looks. I don't care about looks, or good hygiene. I cannot stand men who are superficial, who insult, degrade their wives based on looks and who forget about their ghairat and self-respect completely when they are faced with a beautiful woman and who completely ignore all other flaws as long as a woman has looks. I hate men who are willing to stand in long lines of men to get a chance to get a little bit of attention from a beautiful woman. For me, behavior, character and other moral traits matter more than looks and If I cannot find a man who has the same preferences, then that's fine. Please don't force me to pass cruel comments about someone's looks just so that men can also do it and not feel guilty about it. 

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One also has to ponder over why Allah (azwj) chose to tell us in what he regarded the best of stories (Surah Yusuf) that women attempted to not only seduce Yusuf (as) but cut their hands in awe at his beauty.  Allah is giving us a glimpse into the nature of women there and how if we leave our animalistic selves uncontrolled it leads to destruction - and the moral exemplar of Yusuf (as). 

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2 minutes ago, rkazmi33 said:

The fact is that for men, looks matter and for women, looks don't matter.

 

15 minutes ago, Intellectual Resistance said:

This is understandable, given that admitting these things may make them feel others will judge them as vain or the like.

Why did everyone ignore my 10?

:sign_no::ranting:

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11 minutes ago, rkazmi33 said:

The fact is that for men, looks matter and for women, looks don't matter. Also, in eastern culture looks matter more and for people from western culture, looks don't matter. Everyone has their own preference, let people decide what's best for them. I think men or eastern people don't want to be called superficial, so they are trying to literally shove this idea down everyone's throat that looks matter to everyone and it's natural. Anyone who denies it, is telling a lie. For me, looks don't matter but I am surrounded by eastern people and I am sick of saying it again and again but people just don't want to accept it. They keep suspecting that my idea of good looks is different, so I like different kind of look, but I have to like good looks. I don't care about looks, or good hygiene. I cannot stand men who are superficial, who insult, degrade their wives based on looks and who forget about their ghairat and self-respect completely when they are faced with a beautiful woman and who completely ignore all other flaws as long as a woman has looks. I hate men who are willing to stand in long lines of men to get a chance to get a little bit of attention from a beautiful woman. For me, behavior, character and other moral traits matter more than looks and If I cannot find a man who has the same preferences, then that's fine. Please don't force me to pass cruel comments about someone's looks just so that men can also do it and not feel guilty about it. 

While i don't deny for some people it isn't going to matter, the reality is anyone who examines scientific studies, talks to brothers or sisters (if their sisters) in their social circle , examines documentaries on this issue, examines the views of many who have posted about it online of all religions and non-religions, will come to the conclusion that looks certainly matter for women.

However women tend to be able to compromise on it, if there are other redeeming factors, and even at the same time will tend not to want to go beyond a standard. Three of the sisters who have replied here said they wanted someone who is 5-6. This probably means that number is higher, given no-one wants to be seen as superficial or shallow, particularly women. Furthermore wanting a six will also rule out 60% of men. 

Looks matter, but there are many other important factors we as Muslims should look for.  Anyone who is so superficial that degrade their own wives, is a terrible human being. Anyone who becomes vain and shallow and wanders into the extreme is committing a grave error. Those men who pass cruel comments again have bigger problems of their own, particularly who they are inside. 

My intention of making it clear looks matter for woman is because i know when people switch of this screen, and actually get into the world of marriage and proposals, it is going to have an effect , even if you get one or two cases where it might not. I want people to be armed with the facts, and then exercise their higher moral nature. It's good to be aware. 

EDIT: This is what i don't think is fair at all, to know that looks plays an important factor for most men, yet these same men consider women shallow if they allow just a percentage of what they biologically are programmed to want to come to the surface. Women have it tough.

Edited by Intellectual Resistance

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This is just my own musings and speculation, but I think women want someone who is the same level of attractiveness as themselves, or slightly lower. For example someone who is an "8" in the looks department will probably want to marry someone that is a 7 or 8. He can't be a higher number because then the girl will feel ugly and insecure, and women want to feel beautiful and desired by their husband. This isn't a hard and fast rule though, my husband is defo better looking than me :verryhappy: 

So looks- same or below

intelligence- women tend to want a husband more intelligent than themselves

height- ideally taller

personality- someone who can be a leader, so not timid. But KIND

money- $$$$$$

:p

Edited by ireallywannaknow

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7 minutes ago, ireallywannaknow said:

This is just my own musings and speculation, but I think women want someone who is the same level of attractiveness as themselves, or slightly lower. For example someone who is an "8" in the looks department will probably want to marry someone that is a 7 or 8. He can't be a higher number because then the girl will feel ugly and insecure, and women want to feel beautiful and desired by their husband. This isn't a hard and fast rule though, my husband is defo better looking than me :verryhappy: 

So looks- same or below

intelligence- women tend to want a husband more intelligent than themselves

height- ideally taller

personality- someone who can be a leader, so not timid. 

money- $$$$$$

:p

Most honest post on this thread. None of that generic 'brush your teeth and keep clean' hyperbole. 

 

Edited by Intellectual Resistance

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For Women they are as follows  = Looks + Physique + Personality + status + ability to provide/wealth + other non-superficial factors

For Men they are as follows =  Looks x (Physique + Personality + other non-superficial factors)

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