Jesus does not claim to be god in the bible

[Sisterfatima1]

John 7:34 ( this is also proof Jesus did not die on the cross) 34 You will seek me and you will not find me. Where I am you cannot come. John 6:38  For I have come down from heaven to do the will of God who sent me, not to do my own will. John 5:30  By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

John 8:28

28 So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up[a] the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. 29 The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him.” 30 Even as he spoke, many believed in him.

[ali_fatheroforphans]

With all due respect, It surprises me how people can ever dare to believe in such an irrational idea that "Jesus is son of God in a literal sense"

[Sisterfatima1]

4 minutes ago, Mishael said:

This implies the differences with roles between him and his father does this imply polytheism, no it does not. It implies the divine relationship they have with each other but we're not necessarily saying that these are two different gods, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit all make up the one God. Jesus does not really need to say he's God he already said it in different ways like when he said Before Abraham was I and before Adam was I now Jesus is the only person in the whole Bible and Torah to say this. Also depending on wheather you view the Syriac/Aramaic translation as more accurate then you will find in the Aramic translation Jesus says this,

John 14:6

Yeshua said to him, “I AM THE LIVING GOD, The Way and The Truth and The Life; no man comes to my Father but by me alone.”

I’m sorry but are you kidding me it’s very clear he is not god he said clearly not to do my own will 

[Abu Hadi]

42 minutes ago, Mishael said:

Nope this implies the relationship between he and his Father. I can easily to the same thing and say where does Allah tell Mohammed directly I'm God, keep in mind there is no verse in the whole Quran where Allah actually says to Mohammed I'm God worship me your going to probably say that's an absurd argument but after all I'm just using the same dumb argument against you. Wheather you understand the verses don't matter the fact is he proved to be God.

Yes there is. There are many, Here's one. 

إِنَّنِي أَنَا اللَّهُ لَا إِلَهَ إِلَّا أَنَا فَاعْبُدْنِي وَأَقِمِ الصَّلَاةَ لِذِكْرِي

"Verily, I - I alone - am God; there is no God but Me. Hence, worship Me alone, and be constant in prayer, so as to remember Me! 

Quran 20:14

As for your other points about Jesus(peace be upon him). I am willing to discuss these if you promise to stick to only this point (Did Jesus say he was God in the Bible) and not try to as they say in Arabic 'take a stick from every valley'. Otherwise I will let others continue with this. 

 

Edited January 22, 2018 by Abu Hadi

[iraqi_shia]

5 hours ago, Mishael said:

This implies the differences with roles between him and his father does this imply polytheism, no it does not. It implies the divine relationship they have with each other but we're not necessarily saying that these are two different gods, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit all make up the one God. Jesus does not really need to say he's God he already said it in different ways like when he said Before Abraham was I and before Adam was I now Jesus is the only person in the whole Bible and Torah to say this. Also depending on wheather you view the Syriac/Aramaic translation as more accurate then you will find in the Aramic translation Jesus says this,

John 14:6

Yeshua said to him, “I AM THE LIVING GOD, The Way and The Truth and The Life; no man comes to my Father but by me alone.”

So in what respect is God one? You cant say God is one, and then say three parts. 

Is it one "thing", one "will", what? what is it that is one about God?

[Ashvazdanghe]

WHO is son of man Really!?

Son of man

Salam the leader of new Nation of Islam claims that he is son of man !!!?

 

Edited January 23, 2018 by Ashvazdanghe

[MohammadAli1993]

16 hours ago, Mishael said:

Nope this implies the relationship between he and his Father. I can easily to the same thing and say where does Allah tell Mohammed directly I'm God, keep in mind there is no verse in the whole Quran where Allah actually says to Mohammed I'm God worship me your going to probably say that's an absurd argument but after all I'm just using the same dumb argument against you. Wheather you understand the verses don't matter the fact is he proved to be God.

Your God consists of Three Parts and they are all dependent on each other. If one doesn't exist. The whole structure falls apart completely. The whole Idea that Jesus is God is irrational and has no basis. 

Jesus never said that he is God. 

Do you believe that God hs a God? 

[Ahmed_516478]

I don't get how Christians actually get their theology from the gospels. The passages in the canonical gospels make quite a lot of sense if one interprets them through an esoteric shi'i view. The imams say "We are the Eye (ʿayn) of God, we are the Hand (yad) of God, we are the Face (wajh) of God, we are His Side (janb), His Heart (qalb), His Tongue (lisān), His Ear (udhn). " 

[Abu Nur]

This is irrelevant but interesting; 

He (Shaitan) asked who the father of the newborn child (Jesus) was. They said his case was an example of Adam whom Allah had created without a father. Iblis retorted “I will destroy four out of five parts of human population due to this son.”

[Abu Hadi]

12 minutes ago, Mishael said:

Trying to prove a religion wrong using another religions book doesn't make sense it's like trying to disapprove Hinduism by using the Avesta of the Zoroastrians.

You made a claim. You're claim was false. I am not trying to falsify a religion, I am trying to show your claim was false. 

[Abu Nur]

Quote

John 14:6

Yeshua said to him, “I AM THE LIVING GOD, The Way and The Truth and The Life; no man comes to my Father but by me alone.”

Where it says "I AM THE LIVING GOD". What I read is:

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

 

[Abu Nur]

2 minutes ago, Mishael said:

Using the book of another religion to do that doesn't make sense.

Your claim "there is no verse in the whole Quran where Allah actually says", then the answer the brother gave you is from Qur'an.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Dhulfikar

[Abu Nur]

Just now, Mishael said:

He implied the differences in roles between him and his father yet showing that he is the only way to salvation.

But he did not say "I AM THE LIVING GOD", you just added it there. The only salvation yes, because at that time the rest was misguided and he was the only way to get the salvation.

[Abu Nur]

Quote

No I said where does Allah tell Mohammed directly I'm God that's what I said. 

NO, you said "there is no verse in the whole Quran where Allah actually says to Mohammed I'm God worship me".

So we are talking about Quran here.

 

[Abu Nur]

Quote

The Aramaic/Syriac translation says that which is almost the closest language to the language Jesus spoke.

http://biblehub.com/aramaic-plain-english/john/14.htm

 

And the translation of it make it say "I AM THE LIVING GOD"?,

All other translations used I Am The X, Y Z, Where did this Living God came from?

[Abu Nur]

Just now, Mishael said:

Yes where does Allah tell Mohammed this while directly talking to Mohammed.

 

[Abu Nur]

Quote

I Am is one of the titles of God to begin with s wheather you translate it to living God or not it means the same thing but I'm guessing in Aramaic it comes out as the Living God.

 

It is your imagination, nor where it indicate that HE IS THE GOD;

 I am the way, the truth, and the life:

[Abu Nur]

1 hour ago, Mishael said:

I almost knew you'd use that verse Allah in this verse is talking to Moses not Mohammed so it doesn't count.

Lol.

Indeed this, your religion, is one religion, and I am your Lord, so worship Me.

And surely this your religion is one religion and I am your Lord, therefore be careful (of your duty) to Me.

And in general:

“And I (Allaah) created not the jinn and mankind except that they should worship Me(Alone)”. [al-Dhaariyaat 51:56]

21:25 - We did not send any messenger before you except with inspiration: "There is no god except Me; you shall worship Me alone."

Edited January 23, 2018 by Dhulfikar

[Abu Nur]

1 hour ago, Mishael said:

I Am is a title of God so you have just disregarded a load of evidence. I Am to begin with is a title God uses for himself as when he addressed Moses.

I Am The X, is not same than I AM. 

[ali_fatheroforphans]

4 minutes ago, Mishael said:

Plus is Allah talking to Mohammed or is Gabriel being sent as a messenger boy.

So you believe in a God that has a voice?

You have limited God. Do you expect Allah to physically talk to Prophet Muhammad(pbuh)?

Edited January 23, 2018 by ali_fatheroforphans

[ali_fatheroforphans]

Imam Ali(as) speaks nothing but the truth subhanallah.

'Whoever attaches attributes to Allah recognises His like, and whoever recognises His like regards Him two; and whoever regards Him as two recognises parts for Him; and whoever recognises parts for Him mistook Him; and whoever mistook Him pointed at Him; and whoever pointed at Him admitted limitations for Him; and whoever admitted limitations for Him numbered Him. Whoever said: ‘In what is He?’, held that He is contained; and whoever said: ‘On what is He?’, held He is not on something else."

[Abu Nur]

39 minutes ago, Mishael said:

No I Am itself in capitals in the Bible always refers to the title of God or the title which he uses to describe himself. 

https://www.gotquestions.org/I-AM.html

No wonder you people make him sound he is some kind of God, Like how people took Imam Ali (as) as God. About I Am thing, Imam Ali (as) have also said similar, I actually have made post it here;

 

[Abu Nur]

Quote

In the Surah Al-Daahriyat Allah switches from talking to himself in first person then goes back to talking in third person...? Plus is Allah talking to Mohammed or is Gabriel being sent as a messenger boy. The whole Quran is Gabriel telling Mohammed Allah is this Allah is that why doesn't Allah tell Mohammed himself I'm Allah I am the God of Abraham and Ishmael your forefather do not disbelieve and worship me. Why is it always Allah is the all knowing Allah is the strongest. Or then sure you could say that Gabriel told Mohammed that there is no god except Allah but who is saying these words Allah or is Gabriel telling Mohammed?

 

If you think that God spoke directly in his Absolute self to Prophets, then you just commited shirk. When he talked to Musa, the voice was created.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Dhulfikar

[Abu Nur]

3 minutes ago, Mishael said:

The violent response of the Jews to Jesus’ “I AM” statement indicates they clearly understood what He was declaring that He was the eternal God incarnate. Jesus was equating Himself with the "I AM" title God gave Himself in Exodus 3:14. Why do you think Jesus was wanted so dead by the high priests of the Jews.

But the Jews disagree with this wholly, listen their lecture about it. They don't even believe that Jesus in bible even existed.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Dhulfikar

[Abu Nur]

Quote

Why do you think Jesus was wanted so dead by the high priests of the Jews.

Not because you think Jesus claim to be God, but because Jews hate anything they disagree with them. They did same with Prophet Muhammad (saws), and many previous prophets.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Dhulfikar

[Abu Nur]

Just now, Mishael said:

God didn't come down to earth in his true form to talk to Moses. Rather Moses saw and heard one of the manifestations of God's infinite glory so obviously it wasn't Gods true form or voice but Moses did talk to God so did the other prophets Mohammed talked to Gabriel who was probably the devil in disguise considering the Bible warns of false prophets after Jesus who will claim revelations from God or angels and we have also been warned that the devil can come in the form of an angel of light and deceive people.

Who said Muhammad did not talk to God? Are you forgetting the Mi'raj? Anyway, I already done with this one.

[ali_fatheroforphans]

32 minutes ago, Mishael said:

No I don't expect him to physically come down to earth and talk to Mohammed but I do expect him to actually talk to Mohammed

I do believe Allah can talk to Prophets(as), just like Allah spoke to Prophet Musa (as). However I'm just not in a position to attribute a human voice (that I know off) to Allah. How Allah communicates to a prophet is something beyond our imagination.

Anyways Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was taken on the mi'raj (night ascension), by the will of Allah. Every prophet has a unique story and a particular title. Prophet Jesus (as) was the only prophet to be born without a father. Prophet Musa (as) spoke with Allah etc.

It is very arrogant for you to say "why Allah didn't do this to this prophet". On what basis are you setting standards. Do you understand the plan of Allah? How limited is our intellect after all. Would it of made any difference if Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said to his people that "Allah spoke to me directly, and here is the Quran". Ignorant people are always ignorant. 

 

 

 

[Abu Nur]

Quote

God didn't come down to earth in his true form to talk to Moses. Rather Moses saw and heard one of the manifestations of God's infinite glory so obviously it wasn't Gods true form or voice but Moses did talk to God so did the other prophets Mohammed talked to Gabriel who was probably the devil in disguise considering the Bible warns of false prophets after Jesus who will claim revelations from God or angels and we have also been warned that the devil can come in the form of an angel of light and deceive people.

 

God coming to form is already Shirk.

[Abu Nur]

Quote

considering the Bible warns of false prophets after Jesus who will claim revelations from God or angels and we have also been warned that the devil can come in the form of an angel of light and deceive people.

Lol and you think Muhammad is devil who came to deceive people? Deceive that there is only One God and worship him and and Do Good deeds, speak truth and accept all the previous prophets. I think it is the shaitan who truly deceived most of the Christians.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Dhulfikar

[M.IB]

4 hours ago, Mishael said:

Trying to prove a religion wrong using another religions book doesn't make sense it's like trying to disapprove Hinduism by using the Avesta of the Zoroastrians.

he isn't, he is using the verse to respond to what you said at:

 

23 hours ago, Mishael said:

keep in mind there is no verse in the whole Quran where Allah actually says to Mohammed I'm God worship me

 

[MohammadAli1993]

5 hours ago, Mishael said:

I Am is a title of God so you have just disregarded a load of evidence. I Am to begin with is a title God uses for himself as when he addressed Moses.

I am is not the title of God. Can you prove to me that Jesus said that he is Ehye and not EgoEimeen

[MohammadAli1993]

3 hours ago, Mishael said:

On the contrary do you believe God can't do those things you have limited God. God talked to Moses and he talked to Solomon he talked to Adam he talked to Jacob he talked to Abraham he talked to Isaac he talked to Job but I wonder why not Mohammed he practically talked to every prophet but why not Mohammed? No I don't expect him to physically come down to earth and talk to Mohammed but I do expect him to actually talk to Mohammed unless your saying Allah can't talk to Mohammed and has to send Gabriel down maybe because he's to busy to talk to Mohammed or he's sick or sleeping. Saying Allah is to great to talk to Mohammed would literally be setting limits for God.

God has talked to Prophet Muhammad pbuh. Through the Quran or Jibraeel even tho The Angel Jibraeel wasn't necessarily for him to reveal the Quran to the Prophet .God hasn't directly spoken to any Messenger. What does direct even mean? Does it mean that God has a voice and he caused air vibrations in order to create sound? And if so then it wasn't direct. Remember, God is not a man - Old Testament. 

Allah SWT is not limited but the God of the Christian. He was limited and weak at certain times. 

Edited January 23, 2018 by MohammadAli1993

[Ashvazdanghe]

2 minutes ago, Mishael said:

Well he spoke either way how he did it doesn't matter but God spoke. Mohammed could have seen the devil so it doesn't count as Allah never spoke to him. God spoke to all the messengers but not in his real form and he talked to Moses like a friend God of the Christians can do anything he wants he can be weak if he wants to and if there's wisdom in it he can be strong he can also know what is best for any solution. You might say he was weak on the cross but I say to you he was not for he took on all the sins of the world on his back and rose after three days that proves that he is strong. If the angel wasn't necessary then why didn't Allah reveal it himself like he revealed the 10 commandments to Moses on Mount Sinai.

When a part of comapanions of Moses (as) asked him to show them God ,God said you never see me I will reveal my glory to a high mountain if it remained stable you will see me when he revealed his glory to that mountain it was demolished & companions died & Moses (as) asked forgiveness from God and asked him to bring them back to life which he bring them back to life now how you expect that he restricts himself to a human body to forgive sins of people althought whiteout this action he could forgive all sins of people & don’t do this useless transformation .

[Ashvazdanghe]

26 minutes ago, Mishael said:

Do you have a verse about Moses? The penalty for sin is death so God took our penalty and he opened up our path to salvation also is it not possible for God to come down as a human to say otherwise we're to restrict God and say he is unable to do so.

In Quran name of Moses(as) & children of Israel is repeated more than any prophet & Nation 

وَلَمَّا جَاءَ مُوسَىٰ لِمِيقَاتِنَا وَكَلَّمَهُ رَبُّهُ قَالَ رَبِّ أَرِنِي أَنظُرْ إِلَيْكَ ۚ قَالَ لَن تَرَانِي وَلَـٰكِنِ انظُرْ إِلَى الْجَبَلِ فَإِنِ اسْتَقَرَّ مَكَانَهُ فَسَوْفَ تَرَانِي ۚ فَلَمَّا تَجَلَّىٰ رَبُّهُ لِلْجَبَلِ جَعَلَهُ دَكًّا وَخَرَّ مُوسَىٰ صَعِقًا ۚ فَلَمَّا أَفَاقَ قَالَ سُبْحَانَكَ تُبْتُ إِلَيْكَ وَأَنَا أَوَّلُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ﴿١٤٣﴾

And when Musa came at Our appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he said: My Lord! show me (Thyself), so that I may look upon Thee. He said: You cannot (bear to) see Me but look at the mountain, if it remains firm in its place, then will you see Me; but when his Lord manifested His glory to the mountain He made it crumble and Musa fell down in a swoon; then when he recovered, he said: Glory be to Thee, I turn to Thee, and I am the first of the believers. (143)

http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.shakir/7:143

[iraqi_shia]

8 hours ago, Mishael said:

The theee are just the essence of the one God each one does not make a separate God rather they are all God so the make up one God. So they all make yo the one God with the one will,

Mishael lets break this down very slowly.

Your saying there is one God, and Im with you so far.

Then you say that the one God has 3 essences. Now, what makes these three things one? Is it one in terms of there will? or their entity? or what?

Because if you say they have the same will and entity, and there is no difference between the three, then what makes them separate at all?