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Musa A

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1 hour ago, Musa A said:

I want to know 1 aya that says imam Ali is imam in the quran. I don't want to hear the ruku argument cuz abu bakr also gave zakat in Ruku.

Salam. I never heard that Abu Bakr gave zakat in Ruku, but if it happened, it was after the famous event of Hazrat Ali AS giving zakat in Ruku and after Allah honored Ali AS by revealing it as an ayah in the Holy Qur'an [5:55].

These are some of the ayahs (verses) where Imam Ali AS is mentioned in the Holy Qur'an:

5:55 Al-Wilaya Verse http://en.wikishia.net/view/Al-Wilaya_Verse

4:59 Uli l-Amr or the Iṭāʿa Verse (verse of obedience) http://en.wikishia.net/view/Uli_l-Amr_Verse

33:33 Al-Tathir Verse http://en.wikishia.net/view/Al-Tathir_Verse 

3:61 Al-Mubahala Verse http://en.wikishia.net/view/Al-Mubahala_Verse

9:119 Al-Sadiqin Verse (verse of the truthful) http://en.wikishia.net/view/Al-Sadiqin_Verse

98:7 Khayr al-Bariyya Verse http://en.wikishia.net/view/Khayr_al-Bariyya_Verse

5:3 Al-Ikmal Verse http://en.wikishia.net/view/Al-Ikmal_Verse

5:67 Al-Tabligh Verse (propagation verse) http://en.wikishia.net/view/Al-Tabligh_Verse

26:214 Al-Indhar Verse (the warning verse) http://en.wikishia.net/view/Al-Indhar_Verse

49:10 Al-Ukhuwwa Verse (brotherhood verse) http://en.wikishia.net/view/Al-Ukhuwwa_Verse

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9 hours ago, Musa A said:

I don't want to hear the ruku argument cuz abu bakr also gave zakat in Ruku.

:hahaha: I cannot just hold on! 

When & Where? Can you share with us the tradition mentioning this act? 

9 hours ago, Musa A said:

I want to know 1 aya that says imam Ali is imam in the quran.

Please read the following link:


إِنَّا نَحْنُ نُحْيِي الْمَوْتَى وَنَكْتُبُ مَا قَدَّمُوا وَآثَارَهُمْ وَكُلَّ شَيْءٍ أحْصَيْنَاهُ فِي إِمَامٍ مُبِينٍ

When this ayah was revealed, Abu Bakr and Umar were standing beside the Prophet (pbuh) they asked whether Imam-e-Mubeen was ‘Tauret’? He (pbuh) said ‘No’, then they asked whether it was ‘Injeel’ to which he again said ‘No’, they further asked whether it was ‘Quran’ he again replied in negative. At this moment Mawla Ali (as) appeared from the front, he said pointing towards Imam Ali that he is “Imam-e-Mubeen.” (Ref: Durr-e-Mansoor, Vol 5 P 261, Jalaluddin Suyuti, Ubaid bin Hamid bin Jureira, Ibn-e-Abi Hakim)

And Imam Ali (as) has said:  “I swear by Allah, I am the Imam-e-Mubeen (Obvious Imam), I state clearly what is right and wrong, and I got this designation in inheritance from the holy Prophet (pbuh).”

“Imam Muhammad bin Ali al Baqir said that when this verse was revealed, Abu Bakr and Umar asked the Holy Prophet: "Is imamum mubin the Tawrat given to Musa?" The answer was: "No". Again they asked: "Is it Injil, given to Isa?" The answer was: "No". Then they asked: "Is it the Holy Quran?" "No", was the answer. Then turning towards Ali ibn abi Talib, the Holy Prophet said: "Verily this is the Imam in whom Allah has deposited the knowledge of everything." Then, addressing the people present there, the Holy Prophet said: "O people, there is no branch of knowledge Allah did not teach me and I have not conveyed it to Ali. Verily Allah has given me wisdom and I have given it to Ali. I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate."

Imam Baqer (as) has said:  “Allah Almighty assigned Ali (as) as a banner between Him and His creations. Hence whoever knows him is a believer; whoever denies him is a disbeliever; whoever does not know him is lost; whoever believes in another matter along with him (as) is a polytheist and whoever believes in his Wilayah (Divine Guardianship) shall enter Heaven.” (Ref: Al Kafi vol 1 P. 437, Al Bihar vol 32 P 364, Amali Al Tousi P 487, Hilat Al Abrar vol 2 P 422, Al Hada’iq Al Nadira vol 18 P. 148, Kamal Al Deen P 412)

Edited by Salsabeel
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11 hours ago, Musa A said:

I'm a sunni

I want to know 1 aya that says imam Ali is imam in the quran. I don't want to hear the ruku argument cuz abu bakr also gave zakat in Ruku.

Oh hush, don't play the literalism card. "I want to see the name of Imam Ali in the Quran literally!!!!" Because, you know, a mutawatir hadith totally does not mean the prophet did not 100% say it. 


And even then, a good explanation of the ulil amr verse that I heard was that if you actually pay attention to the grammar of the verse (you know, interpreting it literally) you then understand that you cannot go to ulil amr to then get another ulil amr. If you want to find out who the ulil amr is, according to the verse you have to consult God and his Last prophet (PBUH).


Without even mentioning Imam Ali for a second, this has to make sense to you. According to the ulil amr verse, ulil amr is decided NOT by ulil amr themselves or through shura, but by consulting God and his last Prophet (PBUH). And the whole argument of the prophet not appointing a successor actually contradicts this verse in the Quran lest why would the Quran be telling us about ulil amr anyhow, as well as the whole shura argument also which contradicts this verse as well. 

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18 hours ago, Musa A said:

I'm a sunni

I want to know 1 aya that says imam Ali is imam in the quran. I don't want to hear the ruku argument cuz abu bakr also gave zakat in Ruku.


As you can see from the replies of Shia brothers there is no such Ayat in the Quran. All they have are ambiguous and general verses nothing to do with leadership or successorship after Prophet (saw) - it is just their own interpretation that are far from what the verses say.


Edited by Abul Hussain Hassani
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21 minutes ago, Abul Hussain Hassani said:


As you can see from the replies of Shia brothers there is no such Ayat in the Quran. All they have are ambiguous and general verses nothing to do with leadership or successorship after Prophet (saw) - it is just their own interpretation that are far from what the verses say.



If what has been already presented here and all the other threads you have read since you have been here on this topic , is not sufficient for you- You are hiding the Truth. 


1) Is your religion, a personal religion - personal relationship with you and your version of god and nothing else.  


Is it a way of life (personal, family, social, economic political) ?


اهْدِنَا الصِّرَاطَ الْمُسْتَقِيمَ {6}

[Pickthal 1:6] Show us the straight path,

صِرَاطَ الَّذِينَ أَنْعَمْتَ عَلَيْهِمْ غَيْرِ الْمَغْضُوبِ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا الضَّالِّينَ {7}

[Pickthal 1:7] The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray.



2) Is this book a literal book or its a Book of concepts and principles? (3:7)



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On 1/16/2018 at 3:14 PM, Musa A said:

I'm a sunni

I want to know 1 aya that says imam Ali is imam in the quran. I don't want to hear the ruku argument cuz abu bakr also gave zakat in Ruku.



Qur’an 5:55] Your guardian can be only Allah; and His messenger and those who believe, who establish worship and pay the poordue, and bow down (in prayer).


“وَ الله وَلِيُّ الْمُوْمِنينَ

Allah is the Wali of the Faithful.

We have pondered over the verses that have the word Wali or Walis in them and have studied them all briefly. We have observed that God is Islamic Society's Wali, there is no helper for the faithful other than God and God should be the Ruler over all affairs of mankind is a subject that is consistently upheld in the Glorious Qur'an.

The meanings may be confusing to some people and we want to remind them that our discussion is not about Lord of the Worlds' Innate Rule i.e., Rule by Creation. It is a fact that the Lord manages the movement of the earth and the skies with His Controlling Will. Our talk relates to the fact that the laws in the peoples' lives and the individual and the community relationships in the Islamic society should be based on the Commandments from God. In other words the legal Ruler of the Islamic and Qur'anic society under the Islamic system and that of Imam Ali could only be God and only God.

Now a question arises, "what is meant by the Ruler is God?"

The Sublime Lord is not going to come to the people to implement His commandments.

Furthermore, only a human being can rule over other humans. It is vital that the control of people's affairs should be in the hands of a person. However, when we talk about a person, it does not imply that we are emphasizing a single individual and negating plural leadership. What we are saying is that there is a need for an individual who can take the reins of people's affairs in his hands, otherwise, if there is law in a society - it may even be God's law - but there is no commander, ruler or a committee; in short, if there is no administrator to implement the law in a human society, its systems will not function.

Who can such an individual be?

Who is that individual or individuals with the right to rule over the society; who have been recognized as the Wali of the society; who have to take the responsibility of Wilayat.

There have been several answers to this question. Historical facts also give several answers.

Some have said, اَلْمُلْکُ لَمِنْ غَلَب - whoever takes charge will be the ruler of the state. In other words, rule of the jungle. Some have stated whoever is shrewd deserves to rule. Others have decreed one who has support of people should rule. Still others have declared one who belongs to a certain tribe is eligible to rule. Some other people have expressed other logic and ideas.

The religion and school of thought has answered,

اِنَّمَا وَلِيُّکُمُ الله وَ رَسُوْلُہ

verily Allah and His Prophet are your Walis.

So practically speaking the one who has been given the responsibility of enforcing the law and enjoining good and forbidding evil in the society is the Prophet. So when a Prophet arrives in a society, there is no room for anyone else to rule in his presence. Prophet is the one who should have the power in the society.

However, when the Prophet passes away just like others, who will be the next ruler?

The Qur'anic verse responds, وَالَّذِيْنَ ٰامَنُو - the believers are your walis.

What believers?

Can every faithful who believes in the religion and the school of thought be the Wali and the ruler of the Islamic society? In this situation there will be as many rulers as the believers.

The Qur'anic verse in addition to identifying a known and appointed individual according to legislation as the rightful ruler, rationalizes the selection and provides a measure. It says, وَالَّذِيْنَ ٰامَنُو - those who believe. And who really believe. These words are for those who have validated their belief through action. So وَالَّذِيْنَ ٰامَنُو - the first condition is that they are truly believers. There are other conditions too. الَّذِيْنَ يُقِيْمُوْنَ الصَّلٰوۃَ - those who establish prayer. It does not say, "those who pray." It is one thing to pray and another to establish prayer. If the objective was to just pray, then يصلّون - pray would have been a short message. Establishing prayer in a society means that the soul of the prayer in the society is alive; praying is common in the society. And you know that praying society implies a society in which remembrance of God is present in all its corners.

You know that in a society that is filled with remembrance of God, no crime or evil happens. In such a society the human values are not debased. A society that has all its members remembering God has its compass pointed towards God and all peoples' deeds are for God.

The only reason for the presence of evil in a society and bowing to tyranny and oppression is forgetting God. A society in which God is remembered, has its ruler like Ali Ibn Abi Talib who does not oppress, rather eradicates oppression. It has commoners like Abu Dharr Ghaffari who do not bow to subjugation in spite of physical abuse, deportation, terrorization and helplessness. They do not leave the path of God. This is a society that remembers God. This is a society where prayer is established. A believer who establishes prayer in the society, i.e, directs the society towards God and fosters remembrance of God in the society is among الَّذِيْنَ يُقِيْمُوْنَ الصَّلٰوۃَ -those who establish prayer.

The discourse does not stop here. Next وَ يُوتُوْنَ الزَّکٰوۃَ - they pay alms; they spend in the way of Allah; they distribute wealth justly. Then He says, وَ ہُمْ رَاکِعُوْنَ - in the state of bowing (pay alms). This is an allusion towards a special event and an anecdote. Some commentators say that وَ ہُمْ رَاکِعُوْنَ - means that these people are always kneeling and it does not refer to any special incident.

However, knowledge of Arabic language discards this conjecture and tells us that this phrase means that someone likes equality so much; he is so eager to give in the way of God; it pains him so much to see poverty and a needy that he just cannot wait to finish his prayer. This person is so intensely inclined towards spending in the way of God and he is so involved in this activity that he just cannot wait; has no patience. When he looks at a poor person, he sees a picture that is not appreciated by God and he himself does not like it; at that moment all he has is a ring, so he just takes it off in the state of prayer and hands it over to the needy. This is a known historical incident that occurred in the hands of the Commander of the believers, Imam Ali: while he was praying, a needy person came and the Imam gave him his ring, at this point this verse was revealed.

So as you observed, this verse is hinting towards appointing Ali Ibn Abi Talib as the Wali. It is not doing it the same way as some individuals in history were forced upon people. As an example, when Mu’awiyyah wants to appoint his son as his successor, he says, "My successor is my son and he is going to rule after me." The sublime Lord is not appointing the successor of the Prophet the same way. However, since the qualities in a head of the government - total faith in God, establishment of prayer and the fondness for charity to the extent of forgetting oneself - are found in Imam Ali Ibn Abi Talib, the magnificent Lord, while selecting the Imam as the Caliph, is explaining the yardstick and the wisdom behind the criterion for the caliphate. On these grounds the Wali in Islam is an individual sent by God and chosen by God.

The concept is that according to the makeup of this world no one individual has the right to rule over another individual and the only entity that has this right is God; so He can delegate this right to someone based on what is good for the people. And we know that God's work is for the welfare of human beings and not based on force. So He appoints and we should accept His appointments.

The Lord of the worlds appoints the Prophet and the Imams. He also defines certain characteristics for the rulers to come after the Imams and says that those who bear these qualities will be the rulers of Islamic society after the infallible Imams. So He appoints Walis. He Himself is a Wali; his Prophet is a Wali and the twelve Imams coming after the Prophet are Walis. The Imams have been appointed from the family of the Prophet and their count is twelve. For later time periods those who meet the specific criteria have been appointed as rulers.

This was one verse that we described for you. There are other verses in Glorious Qur'an, some of them we have referred to in our speeches and the others you should look for yourselves. There are scores of such verses.

Islam underscores the fact that the reign of people should not be in the hands of such people who would push the ordinary people into hell.”



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On 1/17/2018 at 4:14 AM, Musa A said:

I'm a sunni

I want to know 1 aya that says imam Ali is imam in the quran. I don't want to hear the ruku argument cuz abu bakr also gave zakat in Ruku.


The names of the AhlulBayt aren't mentioned in the Quran

Here's this ayah:

(2:124) "And remember that Abraham was tried by his Lord with certain commands which he fulfilled. He said, "I will make you and Imam (guide) to the nations. He pleaded: 'What about my offspring?! He answered, 'My promise is not within the reach of evil doers'"

I just don't understand why some of youse think that it is too much for Imam Ali(as) to be an Imam and Waliullah. 

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7 hours ago, 3wliya_maryam said:

I'm a sunni

I want to know 1 aya that says imam Ali is imam in the quran. I don't want to hear the ruku argument cuz abu bakr also gave zakat in Ruku.

Abubakr do it after revelation of this verse about Imam Ali (as) but nothing revealed for him

Has Umar addressed the beggar a ring, if he has given it; is his verse not addressed to the verse of the province?Firstly, according to a lot of news that has been narrated from the general public, the verse of the province is only about Amir al-Mu'minin Ali (as). For example, Tha'libi, Mawardi, Ghashiri, Qazvini, Razi, Neishaburi, Zalaki and Tabari mentioned it in their commentaries. Also, Muhibdin al-Tabari in al-Qubi reservoirs on page 88 and Allameh Ghazi Shankani in the commentary on Fatah al-Ghadir on Volume II of page 50 and in the comprehensive text of the volume of the ninth volume on page 478 and in the single article of the book, page 148 and in Leiban al-Naqul Siyuti on page 90 and in the footnote of the Ben Jozzi page. 18, and in Nur al-Sa'sar, the flutter of page 105, and in Tabari Tabari, page 165, and in Al-Afayi al-Shaf Ibn Hajar Asqalani, p. 56, and in Mu'tatiḥ al-Gheib Razi, Volume 3, p. 431, and in the commentary on Al-Mansour, Vol. 2, p. 393, and in the book of Kenz al-Ma'im, vol. 6 pages 391, and Ibn Mardouyeh and Mussand Ibn al-Sheikh, and in addition to these in the right hand of Nisa'i and the book of Al-Jama'ah al-Saha'ul al-Aṣṭā and many other books of these Hadiths Al.Second, it is said in the verse of the province that you are God and the Prophet and the believers who are bowing Zakat. In this verse, it does not mean that anyone who bites Zakat is ours. It refers to a person who zakat at that time at that time. This term is referred to as Moshir. It's like telling you that his shirt is white is your school principal. This description is for reference only, not for the director to be wearing white dress. No such judgment is made by the wise.As you also mentioned, Omar also repeated this practice so that a verse might be revealed. But, according to him, the verse was not revealed. In a Sunni narration quoted from Umar, "I swear by God!" I am giving alms for four rings, so that something about Ali (as) was revealed about me, but nothing came of it! (Tayyab, p. 12).It is also from this that Omar is convinced that he himself did not expect the verse to be in his case. But also expecting another verse to be revealed in his dignity, which was not the case. That is, even he and all Muslims of the time of the revelation of the verse have described the meaning of the verse in the verse.Thirdly, if life is to be included in this verse, it is necessary for all Muslims who give alms in the rituals of the rites of rites as an example of the verse, and if so, no Muslim would surely have lost this great virtue and with the ring of alms Giving in his prayer as an example of this verse while we see it has not been and will not be. So this verse is the only one of its kind, and it is none other than Amir al-Mu'minin Ali (as).




Edited by Hameedeh
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