Shia and Christians

[Hamodiii 628]

Salam!

We believe that christians will help us shia against serval evil people, right? I won't spell out names or countries cause I don't want to spread hate.

Which sect of christianity will help us in need when Imam mehdi will come? Anyone who knows some stuff about this? I am really interested in this topic.

Edited February 6, 2018 by Hameedeh
Title was changed due to spelling.

[MohammadAli1993 248]

On 10/01/2018 at 3:29 PM, Wared said:

Salam!

We believe that christians will help us shia against serval evil people, right? I won't spell out names or countries cause I don't want to spread hate.

Which sect of christianity will help us in need when Imam mehdi will come? Anyone who knows some stuff about this? I am really interested in this topic.

Can you please share me the Hadith which mentions that Chritians will be helping the Shia when Imam Al Asr Returns 

[Hamodiii 628]

12 hours ago, MohammadAli1993 said:

Can you please share me the Hadith which mentions that Chritians will be helping the Shia when Imam Al Asr Returns 

I just heard that, I have no idea why? Is it why Prophet Isa will come with Imam mehdi? Like to connect the shia with the christians? I mean It sounds logical? Otherwise the role of Isa isnt big, or idk tbh.

[Arminmo 186]

5 minutes ago, Wared said:

I just heard that, I have no idea why? Is it why Prophet Isa will come with Imam mehdi? Like to connect the shia with the christians? I mean It sounds logical? Otherwise the role of Isa isnt big, or idk tbh.

It's not like what you thought, upon the return of hazrat Isa (as) he is going to tell the truth to Christians about the whole everything, That they were wrong, and he will do salaat behind imam Mahdi (ajtf).

Edited January 12, 2018 by Arminmo

[Hamodiii 628]

1 minute ago, Arminmo said:

It's not like what you thought, upon the return of hazrat Isa (as) he is going to tell the Christians about the whole everything, and he is going to tell them the truth, and he will do salaat behind imam Mahdi (ajtf).

Yea, that is what I mean. That is what I meant by Shia and christians are going to get united.

[Arminmo 186]

1 minute ago, Wared said:

Yea, that is what I mean. That is what I meant by Shia and christians are going to get united.

christians will going to become Shia . (Not we into them.)

[Hamodiii 628]

Just now, Arminmo said:

christians will going to become Shia . (Not we into them.)

Yea, of course! 

But the question was which sect will follow Imam Mehdi of the christians or will all of them? Cause some of them don't give devine status to Jesus.

[Ashvazdanghe 7,228]

1 minute ago, Wared said:

Yea, of course! 

But the question was which sect will follow Imam Mehdi of the christians or will all of them? Cause some of them don't give devine status to Jesus.

Salam the best of them consider a Nazarians in Holy Quran.

[Hamodiii 628]

1 minute ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam the best of them consider a Nazarians in Holy Quran.

What does that mean exactly?

[Arminmo 186]

8 minutes ago, Wared said:

Yea, of course! 

But the question was which sect will follow Imam Mehdi of the christians or will all of them? Cause some of them don't give devine status to Jesus.

At the end of times, all humans have between these 2 choices, either accept the truth, or fight it.

For example, Christians that died before the beginning of end of times, like they died years before, by the verse of Quran, most of them were wrong doers (they ate pork, they said Jesus was God, they had multiple sex out of marriage) by the verse of Quran they will be burn in hell.

the verse of their own bible also says lawlessness has several punishments.

Edited January 12, 2018 by Arminmo

[Hamodiii 628]

1 minute ago, Arminmo said:

At the end of times, all humans have between these 2 choices, either accept the truth, or fight it.

For example, Christians that died before the beginning of end of times, like they died years before, by the verse of Quran, most of them were wrong doers (they ate pork, they said Jesus was God, they had multiple sex out of marriage) by the verse of Quran they will be burn in hell.

I hope Imam mehdi (as) will come sooner.

[Son of Placid 1,434]

On 1/12/2018 at 7:54 AM, Arminmo said:

christians will going to become Shia . (Not we into them.)

I have a feeling everyone will be corrected when the truth comes, and we better be prepared to realize God's truth as it is, not what we expect it to be. 

All our texts tell us God us unfathomable, beyond our best understanding or imagination, yet each sub sect of each sect of each religion has a picture already painted. 

[Arminmo 186]

5 minutes ago, Son of Placid said:

I have a feeling everyone will be corrected when the truth comes

Tell us what do you think the truth is?

[Son of Placid 1,434]

23 hours ago, Arminmo said:

Tell us what do you think the truth is?

If God is beyond our understanding then I believe the "truth" doesn't matter. We can only know as much as our humanity will allow us, until that day. Until then we have what information is written. It's certainly not clear nor complete, so speculation fills in the blanks. What matters is now.

God knows the value of our devotion and our stress in living a righteous life. He knows when we role play. He knows when our actions come from compassion or if we're compiling a good deed list for later reference. He knows if we are maturing or drifting, if we have any interest in self betterment, if we can make a difference in the world, or if we would. 

There's no puzzle to decipher before getting into heaven, no tests at the door. It's not about having everything figured out. It's about having that relationship now, about seeking His will and recognizing it. It's about walking that path today, acknowledging God at all points and having a real desire to do the right thing according to His will.

[Arminmo 186]

44 minutes ago, Son of Placid said:

It's about walking that path

 

44 minutes ago, Son of Placid said:

It's certainly not clear nor complete

The opposite ! Path to reach god in heaven is certainly clear and complete, you just don’t want to accept the truth.

Quran 6:151-153

Say, "Come, I will recite what your Lord has prohibited to you. [He commands] that you not associate anything with Him, and to parents, good treatment, and do not kill your children out of poverty; We will provide for you and them. And do not approach immoralities - what is apparent of them and what is concealed. And do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden [to be killed] except by [legal] right. This has He instructed you that you may use reason."

And do not approach the orphan's property except in a way that is best until he reaches maturity. And give full measure and weight in justice. We do not charge any soul except [with that within] its capacity. And when you testify, be just, even if [it concerns] a near relative. And the covenant of Allah fulfill. This has He instructed you that you may remember.

 

And, [moreover], “this is My path” , which is straight, so follow it; and do not follow [other] ways, for you will be separated from His way. This has He instructed you that you may become righteous.

 

(Pay attention to the word: “this is my path!” Clear.)

Edited February 1, 2018 by Arminmo

[baqar 1,362]

2 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

If God is beyond our understanding then I believe the "truth" doesn't matter. We can only know as much as our humanity will allow us, until that day. Until then we have what information is written. It's certainly not clear nor complete, so speculation fills in the blanks. What matters is now.

God knows the value of our devotion and our stress in living a righteous life. He knows when we role play. He knows when our actions come from compassion or if we're compiling a good deed list for later reference. He knows if we are maturing or drifting, if we have any interest in self betterment, if we can make a difference in the world, or if we would. 

There's no puzzle to decipher before getting into heaven, no tests at the door. It's not about having everything figured out. It's about having that relationship now, about seeking His will and recognizing it. It's about walking that path today, acknowledging God at all points and having a real desire to do the right thing according to His will.

That is one of the most beautiful pieces I have ever seen in SC history. 

[yasahebalzaman.313 707]

On 2/1/2018 at 1:10 AM, Son of Placid said:

If God is beyond our understanding then I believe the "truth" doesn't matter. We can only know as much as our humanity will allow us, until that day. Until then we have what information is written. It's certainly not clear nor complete, so speculation fills in the blanks. What matters is now.

God knows the value of our devotion and our stress in living a righteous life. He knows when we role play. He knows when our actions come from compassion or if we're compiling a good deed list for later reference. He knows if we are maturing or drifting, if we have any interest in self betterment, if we can make a difference in the world, or if we would. 

There's no puzzle to decipher before getting into heaven, no tests at the door. It's not about having everything figured out. It's about having that relationship now, about seeking His will and recognizing it. It's about walking that path today, acknowledging God at all points and having a real desire to do the right thing according to His will.

There is only one truth, one path to be able to reach God. God has Created us to get to know him and to worship him, and he granted us the opportunity to reach the highest level of existence through Islam and the quran. Through His Religion and his holy book Anything is reachable. Of course it's not easy to fight for God the whole world will come against you. In fact, In heaven you will find the purest people that ever existed, it's not easy to reach heaven, this life is a test itself to see if we are worthy of heaven.

You know your case surprises me, You've been on a shia forum since forever and everything you've read didn't appeal to you to become a shia? Haven't imam Ali as took your attention?

Matthew 7:21-23 English Standard Version (ESV)

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Check what Prophet Issa says on the Day of Judgment to christians. The explanation is written in the bible saying that this is يوم الدينونة meaning on the judgment day, Issa (as) will disown christians that followed the distorted Bible. I feel that the people in charge of the bible now ridicule us, every 30-40 years they change something in the bible, i mean seriously? How can I follow such a book? If one letter of the quran was removed it will cause hundreds of rules to be misinterpreted. This is how sensitive it is.

How can you explain the thousands of discrepancies that people find in the old and new testament? Like in the old testament the wine and the pork were forbidden, and the hijab was mandatory, even the hijab was mentioned in the new testament as a mandatory thing... But most christians haven't even read their bible. For example do you believe the story in the new testament where prophet Issa was attending the wedding of Cana l Galilee where people started complaining that they went out of wine so Jesus came and he transformed water into wine? You know that this is a sin and prophets don't sin.

[Son of Placid 1,434]

On 2/1/2018 at 1:45 AM, Arminmo said:

The opposite ! Path to reach god in heaven is certainly clear and complete, you just don’t want to accept the truth.

Quran 6:151-153

Say, "Come, I will recite what your Lord has prohibited to you. [He commands] that you not associate anything with Him, and to parents, good treatment, and do not kill your children out of poverty; We will provide for you and them. And do not approach immoralities - what is apparent of them and what is concealed. And do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden [to be killed] except by [legal] right. This has He instructed you that you may use reason."

And do not approach the orphan's property except in a way that is best until he reaches maturity. And give full measure and weight in justice. We do not charge any soul except [with that within] its capacity. And when you testify, be just, even if [it concerns] a near relative. And the covenant of Allah fulfill. This has He instructed you that you may remember.

And, [moreover], “this is My path” , which is straight, so follow it; and do not follow [other] ways, for you will be separated from His way. This has He instructed you that you may become righteous.

(Pay attention to the word: “this is my path!” Clear.)

So these are the rules to the path? How many do you think I've broken?

[Son of Placid 1,434]

On 2/1/2018 at 4:14 AM, yasahebalzaman.313 said:

There is only one truth, one path to be able to reach God. God has Created us to get to know him and to worship him, and he granted us the opportunity to reach the highest level of existence through Islam and the quran. Through His Religion and his holy book Anything is reachable. Of course it's not easy to fight for God the whole world will come against you. In fact, In heaven you will find the purest people that ever existed, it's not easy to reach heaven, this life is a test itself to see if we are worthy of heaven.

You know your case surprises me, You've been on a shia forum since forever and everything you've read didn't appeal to you to become a shia? Haven't imam Ali as took your attention?

Matthew 7:21-23 English Standard Version (ESV)

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Check what Prophet Issa says on the Day of Judgment to christians. The explanation is written in the bible saying that this is يوم الدينونة meaning on the judgment day, Issa (as) will disown christians that followed the distorted Bible. I feel that the people in charge of the bible now ridicule us, every 30-40 years they change something in the bible, i mean seriously? How can I follow such a book? If one letter of the quran was removed it will cause hundreds of rules to be misinterpreted. This is how sensitive it is.

How can you explain the thousands of discrepancies that people find in the old and new testament? Like in the old testament the wine and the pork were forbidden, and the hijab was mandatory, even the hijab was mentioned in the new testament as a mandatory thing... But most christians haven't even read their bible. For example do you believe the story in the new testament where prophet Issa was attending the wedding of Cana l Galilee where people started complaining that they went out of wine so Jesus came and he transformed water into wine? You know that this is a sin and prophets don't sin.

A slightly skewed understanding.

You'll have to show me where the New Testament says hijab is a mandatory thing. 

Muhammad forbid wine for Muslims, when was it forbidden previous? Really hard to make a new rule and expect history to adhere to it.

Matthew 7:21-23 is quite clear that going through the motions avails nothing. 

[Son of Placid 1,434]

9 hours ago, yasahebalzaman.313 said:

You know your case surprises me, You've been on a shia forum since forever and everything you've read didn't appeal to you to become a shia? Haven't imam Ali as took your attention?

I'm a case, lol. Don't be surprised if my path is different than yours.  My entire life has been different than yours, and I've been at it for 60 years.

For the most part, Shia come to me with what's wrong with Christianity, and therefore must be wrong with me. Rarely do I see positive points, even on Shia and Christian posts ;) .

For wisdom I rely on Muslims I've come to know and trust, even half a globe away. None of them care to turn my case into a quest, they just add knowledge. Yes, Islam and many of the leaders have taken my attention and rightly so. The indigenous people of NA also deserve some attention. They believed in many spirits, but only one God. There have been tribes completely driven by demonic forces, yet they still believed in one God. Demographics play a big part in how you believe in one God, obviously the path offers different challenges. The more civilized we get the more spirituality is removed from us.  Note atheists only exist in the "civilized" world. 

I've seen enough and experienced enough as a "Christian" to know what a walk with God means, and I've fought and stumbled my way up a path seeking His will. I've been given rewards and tougher assignments. Challenges that press deep on my heart I'm still not sure how to deal with, nor if i should. Too many variables to guess, I pray for guidance, I've learned to wait.

What I've also found is that following someone else's path doesn't work. God did not give me the strengths He did so I could follow the strengths of others. God is a very personal God. You are as unique as your fingerprint. God should decide your path. 

The thing about the path...It's not the destination, it's the journey. It's about each step on the path God has designed for you.

[Arminmo 186]

16 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

You'll have to show me where the New Testament says hijab is a mandatory thing. 

You said were in new testament? First, do you have the book called original bible?(true words of prophet jesus) the answer is no.

Jews have hijab, you dont have it. Because of problem with the book.

Look here about jews:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzniut

https://www.google.com/amp/nationalpost.com/news/canada/the-jewish-taliban-controversial-sect-dismisses-child-neglect-allegations/amp

[Son of Placid 1,434]

15 hours ago, Arminmo said:

You said were in new testament? First, do you have the book called original bible?(true words of prophet jesus) the answer is no.

Jews have hijab, you dont have it. Because of problem with the book.

Look here about jews:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzniut

https://www.google.com/amp/nationalpost.com/news/canada/the-jewish-taliban-controversial-sect-dismisses-child-neglect-allegations/amp

What is this problem with the book that would cause you to ask and answer your own question? Obviously not a question for me.

You are saying that the original Bible, (which you don't have either) definitely said hijab. 

Your first link talks about modesty, and women wearing wigs, nets, or scarfs, which is derived from the mitzvot, (the 613 laws as determined by Maimonides in the 1100's), the second is about a group that started in the 80's. Which one is supposed to be relevant?

Tell me what good a hijab does if I can see everything you are supposed to be hiding through your yoga pants? 

[Sumerian 6,252]

12 minutes ago, Son of Placid said:

Tell me what good a hijab does if I can see everything you are supposed to be hiding through your yoga pants? 

There is no good in that. That's why she is obligated to cover up those parts of her body as well. 

[abuhaydar 1,296]

@Son of Placid sitna Mary wore one... 

and to answer your question @Hamodiii I personally believe it is the russians today.

Edited February 1, 2018 by kirtc

[Arminmo 186]

Quote

That is one of the most beautiful pieces I have ever seen in SC history. 

Since when you praise a christian that suggests path to god is not clear??

Quote

That group does not represent all Jews.

The group represents the best jews among them, orthodox jews.

[abuhaydar 1,296]

10 hours ago, Arminmo said:

Since when you praise a christian that suggests path to god is not clear??

The group represents the best jews among them, orthodox jews.

its better to be politically correct than to stick to the truth for some... 

[Arminmo 186]

Quote

His relations with God is not your business or mine.

So what happens to یَأْمُرُونَ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَ یَنْهَوْنَ عَنِ الْمُنْکَر

you don’t want to tell him the truth? He is not in the right path! You know it, they commit almost all the sins, they don’t mention name of god for preparing the meat, usually they eat pork, usually they had sex out of marriage, mostly they drink alcohol, you call that a good a relation with god ??

also , when you know path to god is clear why instead of correcting him you praise his wrong idea?

[Arminmo 186]

Quote

Treat people in a way

 treating is different than tricking ! What happened on top (praising) was tricking !

[Arminmo 186]

Quote

And as long as you live, they long for your company."

Also hazrat Amir does not need nonbelievers company!!! , it’s against word of Quran, 

think about it, that Hadith is only for Muslims.

dont use it here in that praising situation.

[Arminmo 186]

Quote

This person kept talking to him

He was talking with him, not being his company, it’s against word of Quran.

Quote

Sorry, it is for all human beings.

No that Hadith is only for Muslims, otherwise it would be against word of Allah.

Quran 5:51

O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you - then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people.

 

Hazrat Ali:”Honesty is Divine language.” 

You should say the Haq no matter what,

you praised (tricked) the Christian guy, without telling him path to god is clear.

[Arminmo 186]

Quote

Sorry, it is for all human beings.

You should do a review on Quran and Hadith, you have forgotten them.

[Arminmo 186]

Quote

# 1 You are wrong to think that that hadith is for Muslims only.

# 2 I praised his post because it was beautifully written.

      If you didn't like it, that is not my problem.

 #3 Sorry, I don't have the time to engage in unending conversations.  

 #4 So, good-bye and keep well. 

Let me do my numbering’s also:

#1 that hadith is only for Muslims , otherwise it would be against word of Allah.

#2 next time when you want to praise someone’s post, read it first, then if it was the truth praise it.

#3 try not to trick and say the Haq no matter what.

#4 don’t say his wrong relation with god is nobodies business! That’s wrong !

#5 goodbye and keep well.

[yasahebalzaman.313 707]

@Son of Placid You had me when you said you're 60. Anyway I guess since I used to be a christian who when she was introduced to islam and logic that falls behind it i fell in love with it and became a muslim, and when i discovered ahlulbayt i fell in love even more and i became steadfast, especially how they talk about Jesus with so much admiration respect and high regard, i expect of others to do the same as me. But like you said, God grants people different paths and I'm extremely and eternally grateful for the gift He gave me.

[Ashvazdanghe 7,228]

12 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

I'm a case, lol. Don't be surprised if my path is different than yours.  My entire life has been different than yours, and I've been at it for 60 years.

For the most part, Shia come to me with what's wrong with Christianity, and therefore must be wrong with me. Rarely do I see positive points, even on Shia and Christian posts ;) .

Hi not everything about Christianity but we know Shia Islam as a better way for obeying God.

[Ashvazdanghe 7,228]

The Imam Mahdi (aj) & world religions