Umar at Fatima's (as) door.

[User4628568309]

The first part of a multiple part series looking into the incident of the door, made over the past few weeks by a Shi'i brother in Morocco. In this first video, he explores the narration of Umar's threat in the musannaf of Ibn Abi Shayba. He refutes Uthman Al-Khamees' attempt to weaken the narration, and demonstrates how others who have reported the same narration have omitted Umar's words in different ways such as cutting it short and saying there is "a story", or reporting that Umar said "so and so" etc.

[Hamodiii]

Salam!

I love this guy, he exposed Omar and Abu bakr who miss treated their slave who took care for them, like cooking for them when he overslept. ''They compared his sleep to our Prophet'', indirectly insultes Rasulallah (as), and then Rasulallah said he won't forgive them cause they ate the slave's meat, they had to ask forgiveness from the slave they miss treated, and there is no hadith about them being forgiven.

 

Thank you for posting this video, I was really looking for him!

Peace!

Edited January 10, 2018 by Wared

[islam25]

On 1/10/2018 at 7:32 AM, IbnMariam said:

The first part of a multiple part series looking into the incident of the door, made over the past few weeks by a Shi'i brother in Morocco. In this first video, he explores the narration of Umar's threat in the musannaf of Ibn Abi Shayba. He refutes Uthman Al-Khamees' attempt to weaken the narration, and demonstrates how others who have reported the same narration have omitted Umar's words in different ways such as cutting it short and saying there is "a story", or reporting that Umar said "so and so" etc.

I think this is irresponsible action. They need to grow up and do what situation demands. 

[Jin Jin]

After Abu Bakr became caliph, he sent for Ali as to demand his allegiance.At the time, Ali as and his supporters had gathered in Fatimah's sa house. There are multiple versions of what happened, ranging from Umar threatening to burn down the place if Ali refused to comply, to storming the house during which Fatimah miscarried Muhsin.

Tabari adds that Zubayr came out of the house with his sword drawn, but stumbled and was overpowered by Umar's men.after which Fatima cried and threatened to uncover her hair so that Abu Bakr preferred to withdraw.

Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari cites Abu Bakr on his deathbed saying that he wished he had never opened Fatima's house to anything, even though they had locked it as a gesture of defiance, implying that her house may have been broken into forced open.

[Sirius_Bright]

30 minutes ago, islam25 said:

I think this is irresponsible action.

Why?

31 minutes ago, islam25 said:

They need to grow up and do what situation demands.

Like?

[Intellectual Resistance]

Uthman Khamis aims to try and weaken the narration by claiming that it is a Mursal narration of a companion.  The reality is, the narrators are all Thiqah until you get to Aslam, who is not only the freed slave of Umar, but one of the most reliable sources on the biography of Umar. He was bought very shortly after the event of the door took place, and is a man revered as a scholar of the Sunnis, who knows in detail and in-depth what occurred in the life of Umar. Not only did he directly talk to him, he spoke to many others, including companions, about what transpired. 

Would the freed slave of Umar, who was with Umar only a month or two so after this event took place lie about Umar and accuse him of such a thing, if he had not heard other companions or people who knew Umar well narrate this? Rather it is likely he heard about this shortly after it had happened, and is reporting based on what he heard eye-wittnesses claim, only a few months after the event. In terms of historical evidence it can not be ignored, and is compelling.

When you take into account the fact some of the Sunni Imams of the four Madhabs accepted the Mursal of a companion , if he was from the early Tabieen , narrating from the Prophet, then someone who knew, heard and met Umar narrating about his life, and being a man who is argued to be a great pious scholar, one of the closest to Umar and an essential source of his biography ought to also be considered as serious evidence. We should also put aside the fact the key details of this event are reported through other unique and corroborating chains.

This is the curse of the latest age of online 'scholars' and polemics, they weaken how they see fit, and play their game of Jarh and T'adil. They won't escape this one. The words of the freed slave of Umar are compelling historical evidence , particularly when corroborated by the other independent testimonies.

They prove that Umar threatened to break down and burn down the house of Fatima [as]. Did he actually go ahead and do it, and did he hurt her indirectly in the process? Historical sources all contradict and we can't say for sure, but if we were to say it would be a guess. The best position to take is that we have strong evidence a threat was made, and that is sufficient to condemn it.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Intellectual Resistance

[Intellectual Resistance]

From: https://whoaretheshia.com/2017/10/31/aftermath-ix/

The gathering at the house of Fatima binte Muhammed and the threat of Umar ibn Al Khattab 

The Ansaar, who had heard of the plan of Abu Bakr and Umar, as well as a few of the others planning for the succession of Muhammed [saw] and select a leader among themselves decided to primitively go and choose their own leader. This whole event has been analysed in the previous section on the calamity of Saqifah.  What is also revealing is that Ali ibn Abi Talib, Zubayr, and a number of the other companions had camped with Ali ibn Abi Talib, and opposed them in what they were doing in going to Saqifah.

Umar said: “‘Ali Ibn Abi Talib, Zubair Ibn Awwam and those who were with them separated from us (and gathered) in the house of Fatimah, daughter of the messenger of Allah.”

References:  [1] Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v1, p55 [2] Sirah al-Nabawiyyah, by Ibn Hisham, v4, p309 [3] History of Tabari (Arabic), v1, p1822 [4] History of Tabari, English version, v9, p192

“And no doubt after the death of the Prophet (ﷺ) we were informed that the Ansar disagreed with us and gathered in the shed of Bani Sa`da. `Ali and Zubair and whoever was with them, opposed us, while the emigrants gathered with Abu Bakr.

References: [1] Sahih Bukhari :Book 86 [Kitab Al Hudud] Chapter 31.

“Narrated Muhammad bin Bashir from Ubaidllah bin Umar from Zaid bin Aslam that his father Aslam said: ‘When the homage (baya) went to Abu Bakr after the Messenger of Allah, Ali and Zubair were entering into the house of Fatima to consult her and revise their issue, so when Umar came to know about that, he went to Fatima and said : ‘Oh daughter of Messenger of Allah, no one is dearest to us more than your father and no one dearest to us after your father than you, I swear by Allah, if these people gathered in your house then nothing will prevent me from giving order to burn the house and those who are inside.’

References: [1] Musnaf of Imam Ibn Abi Shaybah, Volume 7 page 432 Tradition 37045. [Saheeh Chain]

 

Reliability of the tradition of Aslam Al-Qurashi

 

All of the narrators are above are Thiqah, considered to be trustworthy and reliable, and we will go through each and every narrator:

Muhammad bin Bashir: Imam Al-Dhahabi said: ‘Thabt’ (Al-Kaashif, v2 p159), Imam Ibn Hajar Asqalani said: ‘Thiqa’(Taqrib al-Tahdib, v2 p58). 

Ubaidllah bin Umar: Al-Dhahabi said: ‘Thabt’ (Al-Kaashif, v1 p685), Ibn Hajar Asqalani said: ‘Thiqa Thabt’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v1 p637). 

Zaid bin Aslam: Al-Dhahabi said: ‘Hujja’ (Siar alam alnubala, v5 p316), Imam Ibn Hajar Asqalani said: ‘Thiqa’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v1 p326). 

Aslam al-Qurashi (the slave of Umar): Al-Dhahabi said: ‘Faqih, Imam’ (Siar alam alnubala, v4 p98), Ibn Hajar Asqalani said: ‘Thiqa’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v1 p88).

 

The above tradition is particularly revealing and it is also one which contains authentic chains of narrators according to the mainstream opinion of the Sunni’s. Furthermore, they are the narrators of Bukhari and Muslim. The only question mark on this particular narration is the fact Alam Al-Qurashi, a man considered a Jurist, a Leader, and trustworthy, was a slave of Umar ibn Al Khattab bought by him a few months after the threat of Umar ibn Al Khattab to burn down the house of Fatima binte Muhammed.  Therefore, there had to be someone between him , either Umar ibn Al Khattab himself, or one of the many other companions, who narrated this to him. It is also important to note that he is considered a very important source on the biography of Umar ibn Al Khattab.

It is important here to note an important concept in Sunni Ilm al Rijal and legal theory there is something known as ‘Mural al Sahabi’. These are taken for very young companions such as Ibn Abbas [radiyallahu anhu]. When they narrate, their traditions are regarded as ‘al-mawsul al- musnad’ because it is assumed the companion who was too young to directly hear it from the Prophet [saw] may have heard it from other companions, and in Sunni theology, all the companions are considered as righteous and trustworthy and so the tradition is regarded to be connected.

Although Aslam Al Qurashi is not a companion, he was the slave and served Umar ibn Al Khattab very closely, and is considered amongst one of the earliest of the T’abieen at the very worst. He was bought only a few months after the event, and as already mentioned, is considered pious, a scholar, reliable, and an important sole of history for the life of Umar ibn Al Khattab by Sunni scholars.  Therefore it is highly likely he is reporting from what he personally heard from other companions who were themselves, eye witness to this event. As all the companions are considered as righteous and trustworthy, and he was with Umar only shortly after the death of Muhammed [saw], and lived with him, it is highly likely he obtained his knowledge of this event from a direct companion eye witness for him to be able to attribute certain words and actions to Umar ibn Al Khattab in the same way that men like Ibn Abbas can relate from the Prophet [saw] through other companions in Sunni Rijal. Only this time, a man regarded trustworthy and upright was also one who met Umar ibn Al Khattab and was close to him, and therefore this report is of immense historical value.

Additionally, even if one discards this logic, what is essential to note is that the report of Umar ibn Al Khattab threatening the house of Fatima and being furious as those who decided to oppose Abu Bakr and himself, with a threat of burning it down, is corroborated through a number of other chains, whose authenticities are up for dispute.  However, when one has an authentic chain that is -for sake of argument – having a gap in this way and is in a sense, a Mursal of a companion, if there are other corroborating chains, in Sunni Ilm Al Rijal, it strengthens and elevates the authenticity of the chain which has otherwise authentic narrators by their standards. And as we can see in the following section , there are several such chains. The reliability of these does not necessarily matter,  as they are not used as primary – but rather supporting evidence.

Some of the many corroborating narrations and sources:

Ibn Humayd – Jarir – Mughirah – Ziyad b. Kulayb:Umar Ibn al-Khattab came to the house of Ali. Talha and Zubair and some of the immigrants were also in the house. Umar cried out: “By God, either you come out to render the oath of allegiance, or I will set the house on fire.” al-Zubair came out with his sword drawn. As he stumbled (upon something), the sword fell from his hand so they jumped over him and seized him.”

Reference: History of al-Tabari, Volume 9 page 187

“When Umar came to the door of the house of Fatimah, he said: “By Allah, I shall burn down (the house) over you unless you come out and give the oath of allegiance (to Abu Bakr).”

References: [1]History of Tabari (Arabic), v1, pp 1118-1120 [2] Tarikh al-Kulafa, by Ibn Qutaybah , v1, p20 [3] History of Ibn Athir, v2, p325

“Abu Bakr was after group of people who failed to give bayya and gathered with Ali, he sent Umar in their direction. He (Umar) called them to come out from the house of Ali, but they refused to come out. Thus (Umar) asked (his men) to bring wood, then he said: ‘I swear by He who controls the life of Umar, if you people do not come out of the house I shall set fire to it, and everyone inside shall perish. Some people said: ‘O Abu Hafs (Umar), Fatima is also in this house’. Umar replied, ‘I do not care’ Then the people came out from the house and gave bayya except Ali.”

Reference: Abu Muhammad Abdullah bin Muslim bin Qutaybah (d. 276 Hijri) in his famous book al Imama wa al Siyasa pages 18-28

 

“Ali and Abbas were sitting inside the house of Fatimah, Abu Bakr told Umar: “Go and bring them; if they refuse, kill them.”Umar brought fire to burn the house. Fatimah came near the door and said: “O son of Khattab, have you come to burn our house on me and my children?”Umar replied: “Yes I will, by Allah, until they come out and pay allegiance to the Prophet’s Caliph.”

Reference:  [1] Iqd al-Fareed, by Ibn Abd Rabb, Part 3, Pg. 63 [2]  al-Ghurar, by Ibn Khazaben, related from Zayd Ibn Aslam

 

Key aspects of note regarding the tradition:

 

As we can clearly see, Umar ibn Al Khattab threatens Fatima binte Muhammed that he will burn the house down , unless those inside the house come out and pay their oath of allegiance to Abu Bakr.  This itself is a very revealing point. We find that Umar ibn al Khattab was given enough knowledge to warrant his fury towards Ali ibn Abi Talib, members of the Banu Hashim, and other companions who had gathered with him at the house of Ali and Fatima. This is strong evidence which corroborates the other evidences already brought in that what Ali ibn Abi Talib and the others were doing was clear opposition, which caused the fury of Umar ibn al Khattab who in other traditions is sent by Abu Bakr to demand the oath of allegiance. This is a far-cry from the notion that Ali ibn Abi Talib loved them , believed in their superiority, but was only mildly upset at not being consulted – the traditions clearly signifies something far more severe. One can also not ignore the words of Umar ibn Al Khattab – is that a way to talk to Fatima ? Would he burn down a house with Ali ibn Abi Talib in it?

Objection one: Umar ibn Al Khattab shows that he loves Fatima and is evidenced by his words that none was more beloved to him after he Prophet [saw] than her; this is surely a sign of respect.

Reply:  This is a very weak point, and one that really any rational individual who appreciates the significance and nature of words, who is not clouded by bias , would make. Even if – for sake of argument -Umar ibn Al Khattab told Fatima he loved her the most, he still followed this by saying that even this love would not stop him from burning her house down whether she was in it, or not in it. Is this really a sign of reverence and respect? To claim you will burn someones house down whether they are inside it or not, containing your children [Hasan and Hussain], your daughter [Fatima], your dear and beloved husband [Ali ibn Abi Talib] , and other members of your clan and general companions?  We will not elaborate further because we truly believe any seek of truth will not genuinely believe the words used were anything but humiliating and disrespectful.

Objection two: If you accept the tradition then you also have to accept the words of Fatima in trying to get Ali ibn Abi Talib to give Bayah and also the notion they then gave their allegiance. 

Reply: This is fallacious reasoning. We cite the tradition as not proof of every word it contains in its entirerity, but rather, an authentic report in the eyes of Sunni muslims, which corroborates the most important point in the tradition which has also been mentioned in numerous other chains of transmission in other works – that Umar ibn Al Khattab threatened to burn down the house of Fatima, and that there was fierce opposition to giving the Bayah to Abu Bakr, and that the policy adopted by Umar ibn Al Khattab was to subdue and force others to give their allegiance and fall in line.  What is nor corroborated in numerous other traditions is of no interest to us. We want to bring forth what is agreed upon by all of them, and thus adding to its historical significance and reliability.

Objection three: Umar ibn Al Khattab did not go and actually carry out on his oath of Allah [swt] in burning down the house.

Reply: We don’t deny , the aftermath is a hotly disputed topic even among Shias. We take the view that Allah [swt] knows best what happens, although there are strong indicators which we will not discuss here as we are not intent on proving Umar ibn Al Khattab tried to break down the house. What we believe is that there is strong evidence that a humiliating threat was made, and this is enough to condemn what was done in the strongest of terms. Anything done further to this is just insult to injury.

[Mod Note: Fonts were reduced in size. Moderators can reduce or increase the size of excessively large or excessively small fonts to a standard size of 14.]

[Mansur Bakhtiari]

DHULFIQAR AL MAGHREBI 

I saw this in my reccomended section, haven't had the time to watch it though. A thousand duas for the brother's safety.

1 hour ago, islam25 said:

I think this is irresponsible action. They need to grow up and do what situation demands. 

Why????

[3wliya_maryam]

But I also heard that Khalid ibn waleed broke the door? 

[Mansur Bakhtiari]

Past topics mentioning the many hadith:

 

[Intellectual Resistance]

With the greatest of respects towards the Sunni muslims, who undoubtedly revere Umar ibn Al Khattab, what we intend to cite about him regarding his temperament is only supportive evidence of his quite rash and also harsh behaviour – which further adds credence to the threat on the house of Fatima. 

The famous Deobandi-Hanafi Sunni scholar, Shelby Numani, author of the first two volumes of the famous ‘Seeratu-Nabi’ states:

“From Umar’s irritable and peevish temperament such an action on his part was not improbable.”

Reference: al-Faruq, by Shibli Numani, p44

We also find the famous comment by Umar ibn Al Khattab upon the death of the Prophet [saw]: 

“By Allah, if I hear anyone mention that the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam) has died, I will strike him with this sword of mine!”

Some may argue the comment was made out of love for the Prophet [saw] , however, very shortly after he died, Umar ibn Al Khattab suddenly went to Saqifah , in full knowledge he had died. Eitherway, such a comment shows the quick tempered  nature of some of what he would do and say.

“There was a dispute between Abu Bakr and `Umar, and Abu Bakr made `Umar angry. So `Umar left angrily. Abu Bakr followed him, requesting him to ask forgiveness (of Allah) for him, but `Umar refused to do so and closed his door in Abu Bakr’s face.”

Reference:  Saheeh-Bukhari [V6, Book 60, Hadith 164/Book 65 Hadith 4640]

 “…Then ‘Uyainah came into the presence of ‘Umar, he addressed him thus: “O son of Khattab, you neither bestow much on us nor deal with us justly.” ‘Umar (May Allah be pleased with him) got angry and was about to beat him up…”

Reference: Saheeh – Bukhari and Riyad as Salihin.

“When Walid bin `Uqbah was brought to `Uthman, they had testified against him. He said to ‘Ali: ‘You are close to your uncle’s son, so carry out the legal punishment on him.’ So ‘Ali whipped him. He said: ‘The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) gave forty lashes, and Abu Bakr gave forty lashes, and ‘Umar gave eighty all are Sunnah.’”

Reference: Vol 3, Book 20, Hadith 2571.

 

From: https://whoaretheshia.com/2017/10/31/aftermath-ix/

 

 

Ibn Kathir:

Aboo Bakr bought the slave-girl of Bani Mo’ammal family of Bani Adi because Umar used to torture her upon her conversion to Islam.

Source: Al-Bidaya Wa'l Nihaya. Vol. 4, Pg # 145.

 

 

Ahmad Ibn Hanbal:

When Ruqayyah daughter of the Messenger of Allah (saw) died, the Messenger of Allah (saw) said: "Join our good friend, Uthman Ibn Madh‘oon," whereupon the women started to cry. Then Umar started to beat them with his whip, whereupon the Messenger of Allah (saw) said: "Let them cry!" And then said to the women: "But be careful not to whoop like Satan!" And then continued: "When the eye weeps and the heart becomes sad for a person, it is from Allah the Almighty and of His mercy, and what comes from the hand and the tongue it is from the Satan." And then the Messenger of Allah (saw) sat to the side of the grave and Faatimah (s.a) was beside him crying, so the Messenger of Allah (saw) wiped the eyes of Faatima (s.a) with his garment, because of his mercy upon her.

Footnote: This Hadeeth is 'Saheeh' (Authentic!)

Source: Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal. Vol. 3, Pg. # 345 - 346.

 

 

Al-Albani:
Narrated Abd Al-A’laa from Mo’ammar from Al-Zuhri from Anas. (Al-Albani: I say: This chain is Authentic, if Al-Zuhri heard it from Anas) Narrated Alee Ibn Mos’har from Al-Mokhtar Ibn Folfol from Anas Ibn Malik who said: A slave girl of Muhajirin or Ansaar came to Umar wearing Jilbab (complete Hijab), he said: "Have you been freed?" She said: “No!” He said: “Put it off your head!” Jilbab is for the freed women. So she hesitated, so he got up to her with the whip (Darrah), and he hit her on the head, until she threw it.

Al-Albani: I say: This this is Saheeh 'Authentic' by the criteria of Muslim.

Source: Irwaa Al-Ghalil. Vol. 6, Pg. # 204.

 

 

Ibn Hajar Asqalani:

The quotation of Bukhari says that Umar brought out the sister of Abi Bakr when she mourned) It has been narrated by Ibn Sa’d through a 'Saheeh' (Authentic) chain from Al-Zuhri from Zahri from Sa‘eed Ibn Mosayyib who said: When Aboo Bakr died, A'isha held a gathering in which eulogies had been read for him. Umar was informed of it, so he forbid them from doing so and ordered Hisham Ibn Al-Walid: "Bring Umme Farwa  out for me!" Then he lashed her when the news reached the mourners they escaped. And Ishaq ibn Rahwaih quoted this in his Musnad in another form from Al-Zahri and it is reported in it, "He brought out the women one by one and beat them with his whip.

Source: Fathul Bari Sharh Sahih Al-Bukhari. Vol. 6, Pg. # 225.

[islam25]

1 hour ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Why?

Like?

What is their aim and for making such vedio. What they want to gain from it. 

Is really beneficial or it Haram to the muslims in general. 

[Sirius_Bright]

9 minutes ago, islam25 said:

What is their aim and for making such vedio. What they want to gain from it. 

Is really beneficial or it Haram to the muslims in general. 

The aim is to spread truth. Amr bil Ma'aruf and Nahi anil Munkar are part of Furu-e-deen and it is a wajib act.

This is totally beneficial. Imagine a Muslim or a revert (with a clear heart) watching these videos can know the truth and and a Shia can be more confident in his beliefs.

[von Lohengramm]

Times like this I wish I knew Arabic 

[islam25]

20 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

The aim is to spread truth. Amr bil Ma'aruf and Nahi anil Munkar are part of Furu-e-deen and it is a wajib act.

This is totally beneficial. Imagine a Muslim or a revert (with a clear heart) watching these videos can know the truth and and a Shia can be more confident in his beliefs.

I do not necessarily mean to oppose it.

I mean we shoud thoroughly and threadbearly look weather it will really help or be counterproductive. 

It should not be as if we mocking or humilating someone.