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In the Name of God بسم الله
co2017

Why is truth considered narrow minded?

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Salam,

From the looks of it, I guess this is after I made a comment.

You have your own version of the truth of Jesus Christ being the son of God.

While we believe it is against the intellect of an average human being to consider God worthy of having a literal son.

I only consider someone narrow minded who is unable to get into a rational discussion - as he would rather just prefer to preach.

Anyways, how will you prove Jesus is the son of God to those who feel bible is altered? Not everyone will take Bible as the literal word of God.

I don't mean to be disrespectful or anything, as I admire Christians and their love for Prophet Jesus (as).

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

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Strange and insanely intrusive story for Christianity / The role of St. Paul in the diversion of Christianit

 

Name Paul to Islamic tradition states and in some traditions, he as Gmrahknndە Christians, and with people like Cain, Nimrod, Pharaoh and Samaritan is remembered in part from the depths of Hell called Saqar discomfort will be, and in some other traditions of demons mislead people have learned that after the prophets and the evil he read that after Jesus led people astray. [84]

Also in the books of Sunni hadiths which are tyrants and arrogant on the Day of Judgment, in a prison of hell known as Paul cast the worst place is hell. [85] scholars of Hadith Sunni like Tirmidhi this Hadith Hassan and properly considered.

 Imam Musa ibn Jafar(AS) in the long version, introduced in hell that land is allocated to the heretics and misguided. In this land, the past five nations, including Paul, respectively. [86]

Imam Sadiq (as) in the hadith said: messengers of God in his own time and after that they were devils that Annnoying them & make people astray after they were ... Paul  is as the same in the Nation of Jesus. [87]

 

[85]. Mosnad Ahmd ibn hanbal, vol 11, p 260; author Ibn Abi Shaybah, vol. 5, p. 329; Mosnad Hamidi, vol. 1, p. 508; Sunan al-Tirmidhi, vol. 4, p. 236; traditions Kobra related to pregnancy, vol 10, p 398; Altrghyb and Altrhyb, Monzary, vol. 3, p. 356; Fath Al-Bari, vol 11, p 423; Alz·hd and flakes, Ibn mobark, vol. 2, p. 52; Al Adab mofrad Baltaqyaqat literature, vol. 1, p. 287; Ibn aby hatam commentary, vol. 11, p. 58.

[86]. Majlisi, , Bihar al-Anwar, vol. 8, p. 311, Hadith (H) 77 and v 12, p. 37, H 20

[87]. Ibid., Vol. 13, p. 212, H 5.

 

[۸۵]. مسند احمد‌بن‌حنبل، ج ۱۱، ص ۲۶۰؛ مصنف ابن ابی شیبه، ج۵، ص۳۲۹؛ مسند حمیدی، ج۱، ص۵۰۸؛ سنن ترمذی، ج۴، ص۲۳۶؛ سنن کبری، نسائی، ج ۱۰، ص ص ۳۹۸؛ الترغیب و الترهیب، منذری، ج۳، ص۳۵۶؛ فتح الباری، ج۱۱، ص۴۲۳؛ الزهد و الرقائق، ابن‌مبارک، ج۲، ص۵۲؛ الادب المفرد بالتعلیقات، ج۱، ص۲۸۷؛ تفسیر ابن‌ابی‌حاتم، ج۱۱، ص۵۸.

[۸۶]. مجلسی، محمدباقر، بحارالانوار، ج۸، ص۳۱۱، ح ۷۷ و نیز: ج۱۲، ص۳۷، ح۲۰

[۸۷]. همان، ج۱۳، ص۲۱۲، ح ۵.

Of course, in this narrative Molesworth is written: "... and the owners Jesus Fmvls and Marissa ..." But given the evidence and other reports it is clear that Paul is the same meaning. 
Result

Some of the distortions that Paul did in Christianity, this was as follows:

1 Original sin; 
2 Anti-Semitism; 
3 Goddess of Jesus; 
4 Becoming the bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus; 
5 Behest Jesus propitiation sacrifice for sins; 
6  emphasis on Jesus' kingdom against kingdom on earth; 
7 Anyone who accepts Jesus magnify the chosen people to be included; 
8 Depending of salvation to believe in Jesus and not act on the laws of the Torah, and ...

Paul, a Jew, who in Christianity crept because after Judaism to the position and the desired received no Christian has the potential to see, because religion was young and easily could have announced to join it, a very good position were awarded for themselves.

Log in and make major changes and indeed Christianity is the heresy of him. Changes such as the removal of monotheism, and taking provisions and the removal of which nothing remains except the name of Christianity and adding beliefs as the Trinity, original sin, Fda’ and completely new religion was created.
 

References:

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tvshia.com%2Ffa%2Fcontent%2F50273&edit-text=

http://www.tvshia.com/fa/content/50273

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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I don't know why such a thing would be limited to Jesus (a). Rather all the divinely appointed guides and proofs of Allah are the way to truth and life. Christians tend to forget just how diverse early Christianity was. You had Unitarian Christians, Jewish Christians, proto-trinitarians Christians, Christians who believed in hundreds of gods, Christians who believed that the god of the old testament was the evil demiurge while Jesus (a) was the true God of love and many more sects. I don't have a big problem with some higher christology either. 

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[Mod Note: This topic was moved to "Christianity/Judaism Dialogue subforum" so that those who are not interested in other faiths will not be offended.] 

interesting comments! Thank you. Jesus proved He is the son of God by taking on the sins of the world dying on the cross and rising from the dead. If He had not risen from the dead we would have no hope.

Edited by Hameedeh
Mod Note.

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Imagine a person who lives in Island and he is ignorant about religions and have no knowledge about them, and decided to think the Existence of Creator. He can come to conclusion that there is no God or there is God, either only one or many, but there is no way he can come to conclusion with reason that there is God who have Son  and at same time is God and who died on cross and was rising from the dead and that is the only salvation.

Think about it.

Edited by Dhulfikar

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57 minutes ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

 

Just so you don't waste your time - no one is gonna convert just by one preaching statement. We Shias are from a school of rationality,  and we'll never accept anything unless rationally proven.

 

 

That's exactly why this former Christian (me) converted because of the rationality that is apart of Shi'a Islam. 

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ln the Theology section l started the thread "satan-says".

On ‎12‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 7:59 PM, co2017 said:

Posing the truth of who Jesus Christ is and what the Holy Bible says is replied to with "this is narrow minded". Either truth is truth or it is a lie.

 

5 hours ago, kirtc said:

again... yall notice op isnt really open for discussion? its more of a broken record.

 

Constantly repeating the Words of the Devils is a psychiatric case study.

57 minutes ago, Wholehearted Shi'a said:

@kirtc Any ideas on how to turn it off? :hahaha:

You repeat: Gospels say, Satan says, "son of god".

And you will not be a Satanist.

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1 hour ago, hasanhh said:

ln the Theology section l started the thread "satan-says".

 

Constantly repeating the Words of the Devils is a psychiatric case study.

You repeat: Gospels say, Satan says, "son of god".

And you will not be a Satanist.

thing is I doubt he/she will read this.. instead op will come back on and say the same thing over and over ignoring all the points mentioned 

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On 1/8/2018 at 12:02 AM, Dhulfikar said:

Imagine a person who lives in Island and he is ignorant about religions and have no knowledge about them, and decided to think the Existence of Creator. He can come to conclusion that there is no God or there is God, either only one or many, but there is no way he can come to conclusion with reason that there is God who have Son  and at same time is God and who died on cross and was rising from the dead and that is the only salvation.

Think about it.

There are many Christians who believe that even these "isolated peoples" can be saved as well.  Surely Islam also recognizes that such people can be saved as well.

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On 1/12/2018 at 6:42 AM, iCambrian said:

even these "isolated peoples" can be saved as well.  Surely Islam also recognizes that such people can be saved as well.

Islam doesn’t  use even isolated people, Quran says "only" isolated people will be saved, the rest not ! Who are the rest that wont be saved: Christian's that say Jesus was God, and they believe in Trinity. And those that ate pork and did the sins.

That would contain majority of Christians of today!

Edited by Arminmo

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On 12/31/2017 at 10:44 PM, Ashvazdanghe said:

Log in and make major changes and indeed Christianity is the heresy of him. Changes such as the removal of monotheism, and taking provisions and the removal of which nothing remains except the name of Christianity and adding beliefs as the Trinity, original sin, Fda’ and completely new religion was created.

This is standard Islamic teaching of Paul, but I don't know where they got it from. Not the NT. The main accusation is he started trinity, but where? I can't find it in my Bible anywhere. 

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On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 3:48 AM, co2017 said:

If we humbly seek God . we will find Him. He is seeking us always with His perfect love. Without truth we cannot love.

I was christian before i looked into islam. My aunty and my grandpa who are very religious who attend church weekly. I try to explain myself to them all the time especially to my aunty who i live  that jesus was gifted with a beautiful blessing for those around him to show that he was a gift from god. Allah is not a human bean so there for he cant interact in that kind of way  for him to have a child. Maryam was gifted to have a son So then jesus was born to show people around him that god is real. Everyone was so stubborn to realise this, they were getting decieved from the devil and was making them believe he is the son of god or he was god. After i heard that 1 false thing everyone was believing i looked into islam and found out he was a prophet and im sure you can only be a prophet if your gifted so then everything else in islam was so true and believing the more i look into it. 

I dont understand how christians believe that when you have your piece of bread its his body and wine thats meant to be the blood of jesus when wine is wine and blood is blood. Thats decieveful aswell thats false. its the same colour i understand but its not his blood. Its like eating grass and saying its a pea or eating a bananna and saying its corn. 

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Converter,

     I am so distressed to see the lie you have believed! God is God. He gave us Jesus by the Holy Spirit. You are so right that he is God and not a man. Man is created, God is always the Creator. Jesus was born of a virgin. he is God in man form. He came to give himself as a ransom for the sins of man. He went to the cross for all the sins of mankind.

      As for the taking of communion, Jesus said that it is a symbol and we remembering His death with these symbols of the bread and the wine/grapejuice as His body and His blood. It is symbolic of His sacrifice and reminds us of his suffering until we go to be with Him in Heaven where we will share the Lord's supper anew.

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Arminmo,

     Why does Islam deny Christianity? Jesus came to save all people from sin. Yes Christians sin, we are a sinful people. We are unable to save ourselves. Christ is our only hope. He is the hope of mankind. It is only by faith in His salvation, his sacrifice on the cross that we can be saved it is not of ourselves only by Christ.

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On 2/4/2018 at 5:08 AM, converter said:

I dont understand how christians believe that when you have your piece of bread its his body and wine thats meant to be the blood of jesus when wine is wine and blood is blood. Thats decieveful aswell thats false. its the same colour i understand but its not his blood. Its like eating grass and saying its a pea or eating a bananna and saying its corn. 

What? hahaha, nobody actually believes that the bread is a piece of his body when taking communion. Who told you this?

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2 hours ago, iCambrian said:

What? hahaha, nobody actually believes that the bread is a piece of his body when taking communion. Who told you this?

https://www.google.com/search?safe=active&ei=4Kd4WubYFpKt_QbXgam4CQ&q=transubstantiation&oq=transsubs&gs_l=psy-ab.3.0.0i10k1j0j0i10k1l8.35020.35933.0.37802.4.4.0.0.0.0.133.492.0j4.4.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.4.489....0.kBx7QOZ1FmM

 

It's what I was taught as a child. 

Edited by notme

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1 hour ago, notme said:

Did you ever actually believe it?

And what does it mean? Does it mean that catholics believe that the bread literally turns to skin? Or that God is simply spiritually connected to this bread in some sort of supernatural way?

Ive always heard communion referred to as a symbol, not as a literal transformation of food into skin and blood. I wasn't raised catholic though.  Interesting...

 

Edited by iCambrian

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41 minutes ago, iCambrian said:

Ive always heard communion referred to as a symbol, not as a literal transformation of food into skin and blood. I wasn't raised catholic though.  Interesting...

It never made sense to me, but I'm not Catholic anymore. Protestants take communion as a symbolic act and in rememberance of the Last Supper. Catholics take communion as a sacrament and reenactment of the Last Supper.

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im

On Monday, February 05, 2018 at 9:58 AM, co2017 said:

Converter,

     I am so distressed to see the lie you have believed! God is God. He gave us Jesus by the Holy Spirit. You are so right that he is God and not a man. Man is created, God is always the Creator. Jesus was born of a virgin. he is God in man form.

Im sure god wont make another god when "there is no other god but 1" as for us musilms we believe and i guess christians aswell and its a sin to say "hes god in human form" when theres only 1. 

Allah please forgive me if this is wrong to say.. if jesus is god does that mean the first person who was born in this earth is a god aswell or another son of god ? 

If you actually look into the quran there are so many things in the book that are miracles. I dont think it will say in the bible. i will never doubt the holy Qur'an . This amazed me by far, it meantioned in the quran mountains that are rainbow colours mixed with red and black, blue and yellow .. (i cant rremember full verse) how could the quran know such thing 1000s years ago where the mountain are placed in china and explained the colourd aswell. By far from medina to china i dont think someone will ever travel that far to write that. 

Something else i just realised Christianity was probably around longer and because so many people went astray in the religion thats why god maybe thought he needed another way for the people to believe in some thing less diceving and thats why islam came along with a beautiful quran thats showing more miracles 

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12 hours ago, IloveImamHussain said:

It may have been a metaphorical connection of some sort in the beginning and since it is not easy to explain, it turned believers into agnostics.   

What Im asking is, what does it mean to people who say that they believe in it, for example, if notme's parents taught her that, what exactly do they believe that it means?

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Please do not disrespect converter for the question of the communion or any other question. I honor converter for having the honesty to ask about these topics. How can we know unless we ask?

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Converter,

     I just read what you said about one God. God is the creator of all He is the first and last the beginning and the end. Adam was created by God. He gave Adam the breath of life. Jesus Christ was and is the son of God. He has always been . There is no time before Him. His birth on this earth was when He came to show the way of forgiveness of sin by His death and resurrection. He has overcome sin/ hell/ the grave to bring us into His forgiveness if we will accept His great gift of salvation by His blood and mercy. 

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Arminimo,

     I saw your "confused" emoticon. Jesus Christ/God/Holy Spirit are beyond time. Before there was anything, they were present, this is beyond what we can conceive or fathom. Jesus Christ physical presence on this earth, came by a miracle of the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ came to this earth in bodily form to bring man a way of forgiveness and redemption. We can have a relationship with the Father God by the forgiveness of Jesus Christ, His blood covers our sin if we accept His great gift of salvation, the Holy Spirit then dwells with us until we die physically, then we are united with the Father God. We join God in heaven and rejoice for eternity for this great love and forgiveness.

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On 2/18/2018 at 6:34 PM, co2017 said:

His blood covers our sin

Who was the first person that developed this ideaology, that Jesus died for our sin ? And that person, how did he know it was for this reason?

Edited by Arminmo

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