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What do think about demonstrations in Iran

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19 minutes ago, andres said:

We do not understand all your rules and you do not understand all of ours. If you wish a 1.400AD society it is your right to work for this. Just dont force everybody else to. Totalitarian states do. It causes a lot of domestic problems, riots and refugees.

 

What i understand is that your so called "christian countries" have in reality nothing christian and we could live with technology of nowadays without disrespect our religious laws and there is nothing totalitarian on what i said every country have his laws and people must follow them and islam has his own laws than muslims must follow, dont speak like an anarchist please. Also this is not that wich provoke refugees but wars and economic sanctions.

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4 hours ago, alidu78 said:

What i understand is that your so called "christian countries" have in reality nothing christian and we could live with technology of nowadays without disrespect our religious laws and there is nothing totalitarian on what i said every country have his laws and people must follow them and islam has his own laws than muslims must follow, dont speak like an anarchist please. Also this is not that wich provoke refugees but wars and economic sanctions.

Correct. Christian countries today have secular rule. If you prefer Sharia law, fine. We do not wish that in Europe. Nor does the great majority of Muslims that has fled from Muslim countries. Because of war or persecution. Should there be Iranians that seek asylum due to economical sanctions, they will be  asked to go back to Iran. Sanctions were lifted a year ago.

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4 hours ago, andres said:

Correct. Christian countries today have secular rule. If you prefer Sharia law, fine. We do not wish that in Europe. Nor does the great majority of Muslims that has fled from Muslim countries. Because of war or persecution. Should there be Iranians that seek asylum due to economical sanctions, they will be  asked to go back to Iran. Sanctions were lifted a year ago.

Wrong sanctions nowadays are always here in Iran. 

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On 1/14/2018 at 5:16 PM, andres said:

Correct. Christian countries today have secular rule. If you prefer Sharia law, fine. We do not wish that in Europe. Nor does the great majority of Muslims that has fled from Muslim countries. Because of war or persecution. Should there be Iranians that seek asylum due to economical sanctions, they will be  asked to go back to Iran. Sanctions were lifted a year ago.

Actually Europe has become more violent since the advent of secularism and colonialism. If you look at this map ( http://battles.nodegoat.net/viewer.p/23/385/scenario/3/geo/fullscreen) you will notice Europe was less violent and comparatively peaceful during catholic rule vs when secularism emerged. 

 

And I can show you surveys of Muslims living in the middle East who prefer Islamic rule to secular rule. (In case you didn't realize the middle East has had its fair share of dictatorial secular leaders like Mubarak, the shahs, etc. And the Arab spring should tell you that the middle East is finally shedding off its secular dictators. 

 

Also do you really want to know why Muslims come to the west? I can tell you it has jack to do with secularism, western culture, etc. Instead it is all about $$$$$$$$$$ and education. That's it. Nothing else. I literally know Muslims who are living in Sweden and trying to move to the USA to make more money with their degree. Heck, if you actually look at immigration patterns most Muslims immigrate to Muslim countries that are economically better ( UAE, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Jordan, etc.).

 

Oh and compared to the number of Syrian refugees Turkey and Jordan have(Turkey has 3million+ Syrian refugees and Jordan has about 1 million refugees) countries like Sweden seem like crybabies when it comes to immigration. However you have to understand that most immigrants have limited options when it comes to immigration so they take what they can get. And they don't pick favorites. They take what they get. 

Edited by Guest Account Ali

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1 hour ago, Guest Account Ali said:

Actually Europe has become more violent since the advent of secularism and colonialism. If you look at this map ( http://battles.nodegoat.net/viewer.p/23/385/scenario/3/geo/fullscreen) you will notice Europe was less violent and comparatively peaceful during catholic rule vs when secularism emerged. 

There is secular democratic rule, and there is secular totalitarian rule. Secular totalitarian rule is no better than religious totalitarian rule.  Europe was full of totalitarian fascist and communist states not that long ago. Germany and Italy became democratic after the WW2. Portugal and Spain 30 years later, and finally the Soviet Union and the entire Eastern Europe only 30 years ago. 

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1 hour ago, Guest Account Ali said:

Also do you really want to know why Muslims come to the west? I can tell you it has jack to do with secularism, western culture, etc. Instead it is all about $$$$$$$$$$ and education. That's it. Nothing else.

Europe recieves both economical refugees and political refugees. Economical refugees are not granted asylum and are asked to go back home. 

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1 hour ago, Guest Account Ali said:

Oh and compared to the number of Syrian refugees Turkey and Jordan have(Turkey has 3million+ Syrian refugees and Jordan has about 1 million refugees) countries like Sweden seem like crybabies when it comes to immigration. However you have to understand that most immigrants have limited options when it comes to immigration so they take what they can get. And they don't pick favorites. They take what they get. 

Entering Europe legally is not easy. Human smugglers is for the vast majority refugees the only solution. This is expensive, and the voyage is very risky. Most refugees never come further than neighbouring Muslim nations. 

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15 minutes ago, andres said:

There is secular democratic rule, and there is secular totalitarian rule. Secular totalitarian rule is no better than religious totalitarian rule.  Europe was full of totalitarian fascist and communist states not that long ago. Germany and Italy became democratic after the WW2. Portugal and Spain 30 years later, and finally the Soviet Union and the entire Eastern Europe only 30 years ago. 

Oh so now you are picking favourites? And there is no invalid form of secularism. Which means the secularism of the British Empire is no better than the secularism of the UK. And if you looked at history folks that lived in these colonialist countries were just as happy as today. So not much has changed. As long as people have full bellies and a good roof over their heads they could care less what their government does. 

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42 minutes ago, andres said:

Entering Europe legally is not easy. Human smugglers is for the vast majority refugees the only solution. This is expensive, and the voyage is very risky. Most refugees never come further than neighbouring Muslim nations. 

True. 

But I meant on a social level. If you look at our parents generation (which composes the bulk of immigrants and refugees) they don't "like" the social atmosphere of the West. And for many of them they truly desire to live in a Muslim country that has a good economy, good education, and good opportunities, and an Islamic environment. For Sunnis this might be KSA, UAE, gulf countries, etc. For shias the options are very much limited though. Heck, my own mother and father who work in the West dream of being able to live and work in Iran. But due to current economic issues in Iran that dream is far off for now. 

Now as for our generation is a different question. Since our generation is one that is contradictory, obsessed with identity politics, and above all else try to one up each other to see who can assimilate the best. And while our generation likes to claim that "Islam is first" we will throw away Islam in favor of western culture. 

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8 hours ago, Guest Account Ali said:

Oh so now you are picking favourites? And there is no invalid form of secularism. Which means the secularism of the British Empire is no better than the secularism of the UK. And if you looked at history folks that lived in these colonialist countries were just as happy as today. So not much has changed. As long as people have full bellies and a good roof over their heads they could care less what their government does. 

Picking favorites? I always prefered democrasies. Totalitarian states cannot be democrasies. 

When people starv, our focus are on finding food. When our bellies are full, we can start discussing political ideas like education, health, foreign policy.  Unlike totalitarian states, Governments in democratic nations are constantly under critical debate. 

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8 minutes ago, andres said:

Picking favorites? I always prefered democrasies. Totalitarian states cannot be democrasies. 

When people starv, our focus are on finding food. When our bellies are full, we can start discussing political ideas like education, health, foreign policy.  Unlike totalitarian states, Governments in democratic nations are constantly under critical debate. 

in Democratic Gov of around the world I see just hypocrisy of Politicians & Ignorance of people about every Major rule in their life that they just stick to their entertainment not real things.

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8 hours ago, Guest Account Ali said:

True. 

But I meant on a social level. If you look at our parents generation (which composes the bulk of immigrants and refugees) they don't "like" the social atmosphere of the West. And for many of them they truly desire to live in a Muslim country that has a good economy, good education, and good opportunities, and an Islamic environment. For Sunnis this might be KSA, UAE, gulf countries, etc. For shias the options are very much limited though. Heck, my own mother and father who work in the West dream of being able to live and work in Iran. But due to current economic issues in Iran that dream is far off for now. 

Now as for our generation is a different question. Since our generation is one that is contradictory, obsessed with identity politics, and above all else try to one up each other to see who can assimilate the best. And while our generation likes to claim that "Islam is first" we will throw away Islam in favor of western culture. 

All emigrants long for home. Iranian refugees in Sweden have their own club where they can speak their own language and feel a bit like home. Swedish emigrants did the same in America. Assimilation is necessary, culture is not the same in America and Europe, and culture changes all the time. Immigrants in Sweden have changed our culture. 

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4 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

in Democratic Gov of around the world I see just hypocrisy of Politicians & Ignorance of people about every Major rule in their life that they just stick to their entertainment not real things.

In totalitarian states rulers are protected from critisism.

 

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29 minutes ago, andres said:

Picking favorites? I always prefered democrasies. Totalitarian states cannot be democrasies. 

When people starv, our focus are on finding food. When our bellies are full, we can start discussing political ideas like education, health, foreign policy.  Unlike totalitarian states, Governments in democratic nations are constantly under critical debate. 

Yeah but both are secular. So both must be good for you in some sense. I hear Chinese secularism is just as good as Swedish secularism. 

 

Lol, do you actually live in the West? Here is an article to show how appreciative westerners are about criticism of their governments https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.teenvogue.com/story/fight-racism-model-minority-yassmin-abdel-magied/amp

 

Maybe you can get away with criticism of western governments but especially us Muslims ain't got that social freedom without folks shouting us down or threatening us, telling us to go back from where we came, you get the picture. 

 

And also I see you missed the point entirely of my last post. There ARE examples of countries where people's bellies are full and they have good living conditions but are also apathetic to what their government does. And nowadays with the resurgence of nationalism the West is slowly going to become more totalitarian. First the patriot act, then...

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34 minutes ago, andres said:

All emigrants long for home. Iranian refugees in Sweden have their own club where they can speak their own language and feel a bit like home. Swedish emigrants did the same in America. Assimilation is necessary, culture is not the same in America and Europe, and culture changes all the time. Immigrants in Sweden have changed our culture. 

Bruh, this longing for home for many Iranians is because they want an Islamic environment. Not little Iran in some borough in Stockholm where they act like surface level Iranians but adopt Swedish mannerisms. I don't expect you to ever understand the mentality of Muslim immigrants nor will you be able to. So kindly don't pretend to know. Many of us here are immigrants and the children of such immigrants, just to let you know. 

 

And dude, this is assimilationism. Is this what you want? native-american-assimilation.jpg

Since ain't nobody here wants this, safe for "cultural muslims".

 

And how do you think us Muslims feel when the Muslim world is becoming increasingly westernized? Clearly that does not bother you but it bothers us. So quit your complaining. The day you want immigrants in Sweden to stop changing your culture is the same day I expect you to also tell westerners and even Muslims to stop being westernized and westernizing the Muslim world.

 

You speak of Swedish culture being irreversibly changed, well God knows just how irreversibly changed the Muslim world is due to westernization. And if you don't think this is a bad thing then you are a part of the problem and frankly you of all people should be the last person to complain of Swedish culture being changed. And just like how you might say that westernization of the Muslim world brought "good" I can say that Islamification of the West and Sweden brings good fruits even if you don't want to recognize it. 

Edited by Guest Account Ali

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2 hours ago, Guest Account Ali said:

Yeah but both are secular. So both must be good for you in some sense. I hear Chinese secularism is just as good as Swedish secularism. 

 

Lol, do you actually live in the West? Here is an article to show how appreciative westerners are about criticism of their governments https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.teenvogue.com/story/fight-racism-model-minority-yassmin-abdel-magied/amp

 

Maybe you can get away with criticism of western governments but especially us Muslims ain't got that social freedom without folks shouting us down or threatening us, telling us to go back from where we came, you get the picture. 

 

And also I see you missed the point entirely of my last post. There ARE examples of countries where people's bellies are full and they have good living conditions but are also apathetic to what their government does. And nowadays with the resurgence of nationalism the West is slowly going to become more totalitarian. First the patriot act, then...

Stalin, Hitler, Franco and Mussolini. How has totalitarian secular rule been good for Europe?  

I live in Sweden. Swedes at present are represented by 8 different political parties.  Swedes very actively freely discus in newspapers and television every day.

Democrasy in europe started slowly 100 years ago. From the beginning it went wrong in Russia, 20 years later it was replaced by fascism in some nations.  Democrasy builds on three independent institutions. Politicians chosen by the voters make laws, Courts judges based on the laws made, and the Police sees to that laws and judgements are being followed. Dont know if you follow european politics, but we have a problem with Poland concerning the independence of these three institutions. There is no guarantee that totalitarianism will never return.  

 

 

Edited by andres

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1 hour ago, Guest Account Ali said:

Bruh, this longing for home for many Iranians is because they want an Islamic environment. Not little Iran in some borough in Stockholm where they act like surface level Iranians but adopt Swedish mannerisms. I don't expect you to ever understand the mentality of Muslim immigrants nor will you be able to. So kindly don't pretend to know. Many of us here are immigrants and the children of such immigrants, just to let you know. 

And how do you think us Muslims feel when the Muslim world is becoming increasingly westernized? Clearly that does not bother you but it bothers us. So quit your complaining. The day you want immigrants in Sweden to stop changing your culture is the same day I expect you to also tell westerners and even Muslims to stop being westernized and westernizing the Muslim world.

You speak of Swedish culture being irreversibly changed, well God knows just how irreversibly changed the Muslim world is due to westernization. And if you don't think this is a bad thing then you are a part of the problem and frankly you of all people should be the last person to complain of Swedish culture being changed. And just like how you might say that westernization of the Muslim world brought "good" I can say that Islamification of the West and Sweden brings good fruits even if you don't want to recognize it. 

Of course I understand that Muslims would like to live i a Muslim culture. Many Iranians in Sweden would love to go home if Iran became a democratic nation. 

Swedish culture is irreversably changed,I think to the better, not only because of immigration, but immigration has contributed. Some think they are to many foreigner now, others think we can recieve more.

I am not so sure all Muslims in Iran are sad of western influences. We live in a global world.. People that know  how to, and wish to, will always have access to uncensured internet.

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On 12/29/2017 at 7:52 PM, alidu78 said:

On some anti Islamic Republic website we read that there are actually many demonstrations against the Islamic Republic chanting "death to rohani and forget about gaza care about Iran". 

Could someone from Iran could advise me if these protestor are many or marginals? 

6

Well in fact there are millions of people cursing Rouhani each day including myself, but not for what the western media are showing, but in fact for not following the lead of Imam Khamenei(ha), Rouhani is the worst president Iran had in the past 4 decades, he did things far worst than Banisadr's deeds and he is, in fact, a man seeking a change in regime and that's why he is being cursed so much by millions but not as protests or burning cars and making mess everywhere.

Those who live out of Iran think Rouhani is just like other presidents of Iran, mostly. But he is a damned liberal, he follows a plan which is this:

Destroying the inside's economy.(he did this)

Putting in charge unqualified people.

Showing weakness against the west and teeth and claws against the Iranian critics.

Keeping lying to the people to reduce their trust in the regime. for example, he said 6 years ago that I have 100 days plan to help in economy and months ago he said: I never said that. and a day after that in an interview he said: I have ANOTHER 100 days plan :\ .

Attacking religion is another part of his plan, for example, last year he said something which was somehow a denial of Imam Ali(as)'s divine Imamat and about 2 weeks ago he said that IF Imam Mahdi(af) reappears, he can be criticized as well. (That IF means that I don't believe he will reappear and that criticism case is some sort of denial about Imam's infallibility which caused the reaction of great Iranian Shia Marjas such as AyatolAllah Makarem Shirazi(ha) and Alame Jawadi Amoli(ha) and many more people.)

In one word, every 10 years, the liberals in Iran make a crisis for the country, the 1st one happened in the year 1980 they attempted to sell Iran's arms and refund the U.S made airplanes and battleships, to weaken country for the invasion of Iraq/Saddam. The 2nd one happened 10 years later and they wanted to pull Iran into a battle with USA which they failed. 10 years after that they made a mess which is known as Kooye Daneshgah, some people where killed and they damaged the face of Iran in the world. 10 years later after the presidential election in 2010 then claimed that the result is faked and shroud Iran in chaos for 8 months. Rouhani was with them. Now for 2020 they want to make another mess and they are preparing the scene to start it the congress election time arrives.

But, about the moto, of forget about Gaza and ... which it is No Gaza, No Lebanon, My life is for Iran. Those who say this, are a group of Rouhani's fans. I know one of them, myself.

On 12/29/2017 at 7:52 PM, alidu78 said:

Could someone from Iran could advise me if these protestor are many or marginals? 

They are few, too few, those who chant that moto are too few and those who said death to Rouhani publicly are too few as well.

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