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Mohammadi_follower

What do think about demonstrations in Iran

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3 hours ago, IbnSina said:

@andres

Please see bellow:

The reason I said these protests are guided by US is because of some disrespectful mottos. Asking government for jobs and good economy is a good practice in Islam, but it must be respectful.

Some people protested because of economy problems, but some of them were not. They had other intentions. These people who hide themselves among other people shouted death to rohani and other irrational slogans.

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3 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

I agree with above points and this is probably overblown by anti-IRI groups. At the same time, I think it should be the #1 job of any government to try to make life better for the people of the country thru economic improvements, trying to keep inflation low, and diversifying the economy, which creates security. 

Many governments in the area, not just Iran, have heavily relied on revenue from petroleum  / natural gas in order to pay for government expenditures. Now that the era of reliance on this income is coming to an end (because of alternative energy sources and the glut of oil on the market), they should try to think how they can diversify and increase trade so that the economy can stabilize. Maybe they are already doing this, I don't know. 

 

Also I have looked at some of the clips of the anti government protests on BBC. It looks like a few hundred people. These are protests, but doesn't seem to be 'massive' or 'widespread' as most Western news outlets are reporting. 

http://www.worldbank.org/en/country/iran/publication/lifting-economic-sanctions-on-iran

Quote

This paper uses a global general equilibrium simulation model to quantify the effects of lifting economic sanctions on Iran and the effect of strategic responses to this trade regime change. The analysis highlights individually the countries and groups of countries that play an important role or could affect the outcome of the nuclear negotiations and the major oil exporting countries or country groups. It represents the lifting of Iran’s economic sanctions in a stylized fashion, emphasizing three components that are likely to have effects in the near to medium term: (i) the lifting of the EU oil embargo, (ii) the reduction in Iran’s trade costs, and (iii) the liberalization of cross-border imports of financial and transport services.  

The lifting of Iran’s economic sanctions is most beneficial to Iran’s economy. Its per capita welfare is expected to rise by 3.7 % mainly because of the lifting of the oil embargo imposed by the EU and the liberalization of cross-border trade in financial and transport services. Net oil importers gain while net oil exporters lose as the world price of oil declines by about 13 % due to the additional amount of oil sold on the global market in response to the recovery of Iranian oil exports to the EU. In per capita terms, Israel is the second largest beneficiary of the lifting of Iran’s economic sanctions, gaining almost 0.5 % in per capita welfare, while the EU and the US gain 0.5 % and 0.3 %, respectively. The losses are steepest for OPEC members, especially the GCC countries which as a group are expected to lose 3.9 % in per capita welfare. Per capita welfare for other OPEC members and Russia declines by 2.8 % and 1.6 %, respectively.   Overall, the world benefits most from the lifting of the EU oil embargo and less so from other aspects of the sanction removal as Iran accounts for a negligible share of the world’s non-oil trade.

Net oil exporting countries lose mainly due to the deterioration in their terms of trade. As many of them subsidize oil, the lower oil price will have a compensating efficiency gain, but not enough to reverse the welfare loss. Net oil importing countries gain mostly because of improvements in their terms of trade, but also because cheaper oil enables expansion of their petrochemical production and because in most of these countries oil use is taxed, so the interaction of existing distortions and structural change leads to efficiency gains.

 If major OPEC members limit the quantity of oil produced and exported to support the world oil price, they will enhance Iran’s gains, limit oil exporters’ losses, and reduce the gains to oil importers. The world would be worse off as the reduction in oil exporters’ losses would be insufficient to compensate the reduction in oil importers’ gains. 

Quote

http://www.worldbank.org/en/country/iran/publication/economic-outlook-april-2017

The Iranian economy experienced a strong recovery in 2016 as a result of sanctions relief, following a 1.8% contraction in 2015. However, growth prospects in the medium term are expected to be modest due to near capacity oil production and weak non-oil sector activity. The latter will not pick up unless FDI recovers, the economy reconnects with the international banking system, and more progress is made in implementing domestic reforms. Unemployment has ratcheted up and inflationary pressures have started to increase.

In the medium term, with some recovery in investment growth, Iran’s economy is expected to experience moderate growth rates, at slightly over 4%. The contribution of exports will diminish, as spare capacity in the oil sector is utilized and the increase in oil production decelerates. On the production side, the revival of non-oil industrial production is expected to be the main contributor to overall growth; agriculture and service sectors are projected to grow by around 4 and 3 percent, respectively. The gradual change in the composition of growth could also help increase employment due to higher job elasticity in these sectors.

 

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4 hours ago, Sumerian said:

False. Sanctions against Iraq in the 90s are the worst in modern history, ever. Nothing that has been done to Iran even comes close to that.

It is said a million Iraqis died due to UN sanctions.

In fact, Iraq just had a few sanctions removed just a few weeks ago, related to the 90s.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctions_against_Iraq

yemen

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_in_Yemen_(2016-Present)

 

somalia

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/michel-gabaudan/somalia-a-manmade-famine_b_910809.html

 

no intention to downplay the suffering of Iraqis

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1 minute ago, Chaotic Muslem said:

Neither of which are international sanctions which is what we were talking about.

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17 hours ago, Lion of Shia said:

really, americans and westerners think shia islam is true?

yes, in the sense that many believe it is the most comprehensive, and fullest expression of Islam, free from superstition and radicalism. 

I had an interesting discussion with some pretty right-wing people at a holiday party in the states a couple weeks ago. We were discussing the Muslim immigration issue, politics of the ME, and Islam in general. While these people were upset over the refugee/economic migrant situation in Europe, everyone agreed that it had little to do with Islam, and much more to do with economics, demographics, and ethnic conflict.

They also agreed that there is nothing conceptually wrong with Islam, and felt that many Islamic countries, especially Iran, have much greater social and religious cohesion than western countries, despite the problems. Some even went so far as to say that Shia Islam is in many ways better than Christianity! 

These views can be found among some in the west--others who are less educated and worldly have a knee-jerk hostility towards Muslims and Islam, because of the incidents of the last 40 years or so. I typically point out to these people that I live in an area that is mostly Middle-Eastern and Indian (about 30%+ Muslim at least, including Shia), and it has one of the lowest crime rates in the country. I never have to worry about getting attacked in the street or blown up. The people here are upper-middle-class (or upper), highly educated, moderate and tolerant, etc. 

I think what gets lost in all this is issues surrounding class, education, ethnic background, etc. Most will welcome a college educated Iranian in the neighborhood, but not everyone will welcome a Somalian with little or no education and skills, and a sketchy criminal background. I think we need to be honest about this, since it shouldn't be taboo to discuss. 

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30Dec17  Xinhuanet is saying these were protests over the lRl gov't raising the prices of fuel and bread (which are already 'dirt cheap'). NOTE:  Protests like this happened years ago for the same reason with rock throwing by teenagers back then, also.

Tass.com and RT.com have no reports on this.

Xinhua also has a 28Dec report on the increase in ASEAN trade in lran. So it is not some "economic crisis" Western media is lying about.

l was watching dw.com this morning. They had video of the Dey9 rallies and the caption underneath said "anti-gov't demonstrations". l was so disgusted l could not even laugh.

QUESTION: What are the large blue flags, some medium-sized red flags and smaller green flags all about (represent)?

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6 hours ago, AmirAlmuminin Lover said:

The reason I said these protests are guided by US is because of some disrespectful mottos. Asking government for jobs and good economy is a good practice in Islam, but it must be respectful.

Some people protested because of economy problems, but some of them were not. They had other intentions. These people who hide themselves among other people shouted death to rohani and other irrational slogans.

Like everywhere else, Iranians differ on politics. Being in oposition can be dangerous in a totalitarian state, so them trying to hide is understandable. 

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43 minutes ago, andres said:

Like everywhere else, Iranians differ on politics. Being in oposition can be dangerous in a totalitarian state, so them trying to hide is understandable. 

You need to study the history of Iranian politics a bit I think, as I said there have always been foreign powers meddling, have you for example research operation ajax? It is not as straight forward as you think with a bad evil dictator ruling over the poor people, there are other players involved.

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5 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

You need to study the history of Iranian politics a bit I think, as I said there have always been foreign powers meddling, have you for example research operation ajax? It is not as straight forward as you think with a bad evil dictator ruling over the poor people, there are other players involved.

I did not speak about a bad evil dictator, but in a totalitarian system like Iran, where people are relatively well educated, you will always have a variety of opinions and ideas. These cannot in the long run be opressed. Sooner or later Iran will becone an open democrasy.

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25 minutes ago, andres said:

I did not speak about a bad evil dictator, but in a totalitarian system like Iran, where people are relatively well educated, you will always have a variety of opinions and ideas. These cannot in the long run be opressed. Sooner or later Iran will becone an open democrasy.

Yes... hopefully we can also be lucky enough to have our own trump one day, the fruit of modern democracy.

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1 hour ago, IbnSina said:

Yes... hopefully we can also be lucky enough to have our own trump one day, the fruit of modern democracy.

If you dont trust the Iranian peope being able to elect their own leaders, who do you trust to do this? 

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8 minutes ago, andres said:

 

1 hour ago, IbnSina said:

Yes... hopefully we can also be lucky enough to have our own trump one day, the fruit of modern democracy.

If you dont trust the Iranian peope being able to elect their own leaders, who do you trust to do this? 

 

@andresYou don’t get the point it was a Joke.:hahaha:from @IbnSina:hahaha::grin:

we tried Ahmadinejad that was a real clown as like as  Trump.:clap::hahaha:

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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53 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

The only success that these events will experience are in the mass media and the minds of those societies conditioned by mass media which all lay outside Iran. In Iran it will be like a workout/training from which Iranian govt will emerge stronger and more up to date with modern tips & tricks of 'international politics'. 

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:hahaha:

l was watching the 30Dec17 New York's nutworks' --CBS, ABC, NBC --(flipping back and forth)-- with the "we's gonna keep you safe" Orwellian garbage, the obligatory weather reports and so on. However, NBC led-off with lran Protest and after the lead-in by Kat Snow (perfect slang name for "snow job" misinformation[a 70s term]) she says, "Kelly McDonald who is there" like she was in lran, but actually in Florida as the name bar at the end of the hype reads. Then the nutwork goes on to hype these sweeping-fast phone images from behind fences, look-like splices in from the 2009 US' Petraeus Playbook Accusations videos, and Twitter feeds images into an incomprehensible mosaic of excitement:ko:"This made me dizzy".

The report did re-twit Trump's UN speech excerpts, Sarah Sander's media and such.

So l consider this: Since "little rocket man" has played "The Donald" to a STALEMATE...shift now has to focus somewhere else. So some can't-think-of-anything-else-desk-jockey suggests, "Hey, let US hype about lran since a few dozen teenagers want to throw rocks over the inflationary-response hike in gas prices."

Yarrabi.

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2 hours ago, andres said:

If you dont trust the Iranian peope being able to elect their own leaders, who do you trust to do this? 

This is why the US gov't hates the lranian peoples --THEY DO NOT VOTE THE AMERIKAN WAY !

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13 hours ago, AmirAlmuminin Lover said:

The reason I said these protests are guided by US is because of some disrespectful mottos. Asking government for jobs and good economy is a good practice in Islam, but it must be respectful.

Some people protested because of economy problems, but some of them were not. They had other intentions. These people who hide themselves among other people shouted death to rohani and other irrational slogans.

i tend to agree. it's not like one of those things that just happened.

IMO, the article below is not irrelevant.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/saudi-israeli-normalisation-dangerous-171119083143078.html

what triggered iran's protest? according to al-jazeera

http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/insidestory/2017/12/triggered-iran-protests-171230194849490.html

i beieve the situation now is much better than before the lifting of sanction on iran as a result of P5+1.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/majid-rafizadeh/iran-us-obama-p51-nuclear_b_7797534.html.

why now and not then?

let's not fall for the trap. take a lesson from what's happening in syria.

 

Quote

And just the other day a former senior Israeli military figure speaking in London told of two recent meetings with senior Saudi princes, both of whom said to him words to the effect that, "you are not our enemy any more".

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42094105

https://www.reddit.com/r/syriancivilwar/comments/7mv40n/iran_upheaval_megathread/

 

Edited by justAnothermuslim

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It's been mentioned before in this thread, but the most intriguing thing for me out of all of this is how strongly Trump's tweets reek of discrete interventionism.

 

"...the good people of Iran want change, and, other than the vast military power of the United States, Iran’s people are what their leaders fear the most...."

"...the day will come when the Iranian people will face a choice. The world is watching!"

 

Like, he's not even trying to hide it. He emphasizes the Iranian people's "choice"—i.e., any change the West is trying to precipitate in Iran has to be through the Iranian people themselves.

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8 hours ago, Mohamed1993 said:

I'm just sharing information, if you have evidence to dispute it please provide it. 

Salam @Mohamed1993it was about twitter report not you sorry for misunderstanding :blush: when i checked twitter i saw that the #iranian protest mainly is supporting by Trump Fans & Monafiqeen (Persian: منافقین‎) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Mujahedin_of_Iran & Monarchists & Bahai's .

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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:salam:

When you Google Iran protests, the News part will show large crowds... dressed in black and chadors with "down with Israel" posters. The news are titled like «Large pro and anti government all across Iran».

Ad then there is this picture of a lady dressed in grey manteau showing the Victory sign. And this one picture is used by several outlets.

Like it is the image we have to remember.

Like all those protests above are the same people.

I myself, when I open the news, thought I had missed a great part of today's news. Obviously as I search a bit I found all there is is small groups of young, probably bourgeoisie people (students?) angry at Sayed Ali Khamenei.

They said they protested against the prices of bread. Do students really care about the price of bread when their western clothing is unaffordable to most of Iran's population ?

Check out what the Munafiqin spread: 

 

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13 hours ago, alidu78 said:

@shadow_of_light you who live in Iran do you feel anti government demonstrations are many? 


In north of Tehran, streets are calm and I havent observed anything. I havent been out much these days but I guess the other areas of the city are rather calm or atleast there is not much unrest.

 

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12 hours ago, IbnSina said:

Yes... hopefully we can also be lucky enough to have our own trump one day, the fruit of modern democracy.

Brilliantly put, bro!
You forgot to say that an 'open' democracy is no safeguard against totalitarianism. *Cough* Germany *Cough* Italy *Cough*

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current incident looks like that has relation to NSS-2017

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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10 hours ago, hasanhh said:

This is why the US gov't hates the lranian peoples --THEY DO NOT VOTE THE AMERIKAN WAY !

I said: "If you dont trust the Iranian peope being able to elect their own leaders, who do you trust to do this?"

You say: "This is why the US gov't hates the lranian peoples --THEY DO NOT VOTE THE AMERIKAN WAY !"

??? No system is perfect. Half of US citizen do no support Trump and he may not be reelected. In Iran the leader has more power, is elected for lifetime and not as dependent on support from the majority of inhabitants. Iranians are not Zombies, all being of the same opinion. How many Iraninans think their system is the best? If to many Iranians disagree with theocracy, unrest is inavoidable, Trump or no Trump. If opposition grows so strong that it cannot be stopped by force, Iran will once again experience a revolution. Democrasy could solve much of the mess in the Muslim world. Unfortunately it takes decades to establish.

Edited by andres

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