Pakistan

[Urwatul Wuthqa]

Warid Telecom also not allowing access to ShiaChat. I cannot access to ShiaChat when I am using mobile data.

[realizm]

11 hours ago, Marbles said:

Bro @Wahdat I haven't read the entire thread but why should every discussion about Pakistan (or any other country, for that matter) become a discussion about its creation and who created it for what purpose? As you indicate there are many countries in the world both in the East and the West that came to exist due to the exigencies of regional politics or under the pressure of foreign intervention, or have different borders than they should have, or seceded from parent country at the cost of their own long term prosperity (Eg the Central and Southern Europe is made of countries that emerged through infighting between empires, South American is one big Hispanica divided into pieces on the basis of frozen battle lines, likewise Arab states and Israel). But I don't think any of this helps to discus the real problems people and societies face in those countries. That being said, we also know that states change over time, get better or worse depending on the path they take. It's better to focus on that than retell the old wives tale about their creation.

re: nationalism. It is a liability when it takes on toxic forms that blind people, but ironically it is also a necessary component in the development of societies that value their sovereignty and Independence, Countries you appreciate as being strong and independent (Russia, Iran, China etc) have all very strong nationalistic currents that resist foreign intervention. 

Just my two cents.

2017 gone, Marbles back !

Wahdat has a point when he says nationalism blinds people. As a matter of fact, it is sometimes what prevents them to operate their revolutions. "Our King is corrupt, but hey, God bless our [national dish]."

[Zulfiqar1472]

When CIA and General ZIa with Saudi funds started a war against USSR and hanged primer minister Bhutto. Since then Pakistan is detroiting 

 

[Zulfiqar1472]

On 1/1/2018 at 4:55 AM, hasanhh said:

Which gov't?

If ShiaChat is blocked in your country.

use public cloud like Azure or AWS create a virtual machine (Ububtu) is least expensive with minimum endurance. 

install Google chrome 

use ShiaChat from there

[The Green Knight]

I don't think its a coincidence that Pakistan banned Shiachat.com from viewership right after this thread was launched. Being an American puppet our authorities seriously hate and silence all truth outlets now. Oh well.

[The Green Knight]

6 hours ago, Wahdat said:

Hello @Marbles, hope you have been well and good to see you around here.
There is not much difference between the last century's Western push to create nation states in Islamic world...and the this century's push to create terrorist organizations as they are both instruments of the good old 'divide & conquer' policy.

What would you say to someone from Islamic State showcasing their patriotism?...especially after being locked in a pointless war with rest of Iraq for decades? Pakistani patriotism is even worse as it is created as a tumour  to block Central Asia from South Asia. Being familiar with the region you could appreciate how important this link has been throughout history- where such events as the formation of India or the rise of Mughuls and everything inbetween owe themselves to this opening. 

There is nothing wrong with patriotism or expression of love..if anything we need more of it today. But lets be patriotic about Iran, cuz unlike Pakistan, its fighting terrorism in the region. Lets be patriotic about China for building the foundations of continental infrastructure, lets be patriotic about India for creating massive amounts of, not terrorists like Pakistan, but doctors or engineers etc. I would have felt the same about every European country or any country anywhere for that matter if they were built to serve the masters far off and at the cost of the wellbeing of the locals. Pakistan is everything that is wrong with the entire region. Pakistan or Afghanistan or Saudi or Jordan or.... are fake and unnatural. Their existence are expensive mistakes. 

The lamentations of Afghani nationalists should soon cease because Pakistan is building a very nice double fence along the Durand line to keep the filth out of it. ^^ Be happy.

[hasanhh]

9 hours ago, Marbles said:

I haven't used Zong to browse SC but my cousin has it and I will get him to check.

I have accessed SC with Mobilink without a problem.

Yes, we don't get any problem with PTCL, which is government owned. SC would not have been accessible through PTCL if there was a govt ban on it.

l do not know what good blocking the web does, although it does prevent 'flash mobs'.

D.John M. Cornwall, pseudonym John Le Carre`, said in a interview a few years ago that professional practitioners of spycraft had already returned to 19th Century techniques. Which is where the most serious terrorist threats operate.

[hasanhh]

5 hours ago, Darth Vader said:

I don't think its a coincidence that Pakistan banned Shiachat.com from viewership right after this thread was launched. Being an American puppet our authorities seriously hate and silence all truth outlets now. Oh well.

Yeah. All we have to do is use the food recipe sites. 

[AbdusSibtayn]

2 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

Yeah. All we have to do is use the food recipe sites. 

Or surf Bollywood/Lollywood imbeciles, and swoon over their photos.

[Fatima Zehra110..]

22 hours ago, hasanhh said:

True, but your question has an answer. Countries 'shape' people by policies and propaganda.

But propaganda nd policies are also made by the people of country...

Edited January 2, 2018 by Fatima Zehra110..

[hasanhh]

56 minutes ago, Fatima Zehra110.. said:

But propaganda nd policies are also made by the people of country...

No. There are made by foreign imperialists, or lobbyists or by gov't personnel.

[Wahdat]

Salaam @Marbles, life is good in my end and you are right...its terribly cold...so cold that pubic events for new year's eve were cancelled...and this is a country that prides itself with its cold.

Going back to our discussion...rise of Hindu nationalism is and should be of concern to anyone interested in the wellbeing of the region. But I believe the sole loser in this reality is and will be India. BJP's bending-backwards for US might intoxicate Hindu nationalists at the moment but unroots India of its decades long non-Western policy that was laid out by Nehru- making it  easy for its new allies/'friends' to use it as a sock puppet like they are used to. But I have faith in India's politician-centric system where corrupt folks will eventually be voted out. Unlike Pakistan's military-centric system where Army Generals have the last say by the virtue of their guns and cannot be voted out by public. India will soon realize that they are going backwards and thus will vote out the retarded BJP & allies out of power or BJP can preempt this by sailing back to India's organic ideals and place in the international system. 

Pakistan is built around its military and that military was conceived, nursed, educated, and employed by the US. So long as it is in charge, Pakistan and the region will continue to go on to operate by US guidelines & policies... this is despite the various US administrations' quarrels with Pakistani ones. I believe behind the scenes Pakistan is permitted by the US to take part in the Chinese project and this is not an independent decision by Pakistan. My litmus test for Pakistani independence and the strength of this army-army alliance with the US is the IPI pipeline. The day Pakistan can build this pipeline or can develop military-military connection with Iran is the day I will start becoming optimistic about Pakistan and the region.
Iran is another military-centric system...what however differentiates it from the Pakistani model is that everything important in Iranian military structure is organic and puts it in the same league as China and Russia. Lets see what this century brings us.

[Wahdat]

17 hours ago, Darth Vader said:

The lamentations of Afghani nationalists should soon cease because Pakistan is building a very nice double fence along the Durand line to keep the filth out of it. ^^ Be happy.

dont tell me you are wearing a little green hat saying 'making pakistan great again' with your little beautiful fence :lol: 
Imran Khan marrying a gori or you imitating  trump shows how the entire psyche of majority in Pakistan is shaped by the Sahibs out West.

[starlight]

Just now tried through telenor,got this

 

 

Edited January 2, 2018 by starlight

[AbdusSibtayn]

20 hours ago, Wahdat said:

Going back to our discussion...rise of Hindu nationalism is and should be of concern to anyone interested in the wellbeing of the region. But I believe the sole loser in this reality is and will be India. BJP's bending-backwards for US might intoxicate Hindu nationalists at the moment but unroots India of its decades long non-Western policy that was laid out by Nehru- making it  easy for its new allies/'friends' to use it as a sock puppet like they are used to. But I have faith in India's politician-centric system where corrupt folks will eventually be voted out. Unlike Pakistan's military-centric system where Army Generals have the last say by the virtue of their guns and cannot be voted out by public. India will soon realize that they are going backwards and thus will vote out the retarded BJP & allies out of power or BJP can preempt this by sailing back to India's organic ideals and place in the international system. 

Assalamu alaykum brother,

And that being said, there are multiple voices within the BJP ; they are not a political monolith. Many saner voices among them are wary of joining the pro-US bandwagon and seeming like a US sock-puppet, as this might incense Russia, which is another very old ally. There are pragmatic minds within the ruling dispensation itself who are careful that India should not appear as a US salesman-lackey, hard-selling the US position and doing America's bidding on the  intra-Asiatic political scene, if the recent UN vote against Trump's Jerusalem proposal is anything to go by.
They also differ with each other regarding aspects of domestic policy, including the treatment of the minorities. There is the loudmouthed rabble and the semi-civilized rank and file, and there are pragmatists higher up within the current ruling establishment who favor a more conciliatory stance, because at the end of the day, India's international image is at the stake. More specifically, they are not as distrustful of, and relatively better disposed towards the Indian Shias, who have the image of a small, peaceful and largely a-political minority.

[AbdusSibtayn]

On 12/28/2017 at 10:47 PM, Fatima Zehra110.. said:

Mr... mind ur own bussiness plzz dont irritate its my countyr not urs okk none of ur bussiness...

Just so that you may know, we the Shia have no country; we are a single, transnational, polyphonic, multicultural nation of 296 million citizens. We have no country,no 'homeland' or 'motherland', and only ourselves, to fall back upon in times of need. Stop squabbling over lines drawn over sand with human hands. The Shia of Bahrain have learnt this the hard way. So wake up and chuck all that romantic, patriotic (read 'soft nativism/asabiyyah' ) slush and wake up before it's too late, for your own good. Instead of fragmenting along man-made make-believe entities, unite under the liwa of Ahlul Bayt (a.s.).

Edited January 3, 2018 by AbdusSibtayn

[Fatima Zehra110..]

On 1/2/2018 at 2:11 PM, hasanhh said:

No. There are made by foreign imperialists, or lobbyists or by gov't personnel.

Hmmm u r also ri8....but u didnt get my point which i m trying to explain u...

[Fatima Zehra110..]

2 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

Just so that you may know, we the Shia have no country; we are a single, transnational, polyphonic, multicultural nation of 296 million citizens. We have no country,no 'homeland' or 'motherland', and only ourselves, to fall back upon in times of need. Stop squabbling over lines drawn over sand with human hands. The Shia of Bahrain have learnt this the hard way. So wake up and chuck all that romantic, patriotic (read 'soft nativism/asabiyyah' ) slush and wake up before it's too late, for your own good. Instead of fragmenting along man-made make-believe entities, unite under the liwa of Ahlul Bayt (a.s.).

But i love my country nd i cant listen against it specially from foreigners or anti Pakistan agencies...

 

[Jin Jin]

"A Russian President once said that if he had Pakistan’s army and Russian weapons he could conquer all the world because they are very brave.” 

[Fatima Zehra110..]

22 hours ago, Jin Jin said:

"A Russian President once said that if he had Pakistan’s army and Russian weapons he could conquer all the world because they are very brave.” 

No doubt... pak army is considered strongest army all over the world

[starlight]

Pakistan Declared the Best 2018 Travel Destination in the World

Recently, the British Backpacker Society ranked what they deemed as the top travel destinations for 2018. Among their final choices were prominent nations like China, Russia, and India. Considering all of their selections, the British Backpacker Society noted, “Pakistan is the clear winner of the British Backpacker Society’s top 20 adventure travel destinations 2018, and we encourage keen travelers to book a trip now.”

https://www.google.de/amp/s/trekbible.com/pakistan-declared-best-2018-travel-destination/amp/

So when are y'all coming??

[The Green Knight]

On 1/2/2018 at 4:14 PM, Wahdat said:

dont tell me you are wearing a little green hat saying 'making pakistan great again' with your little beautiful fence :lol: 
Imran Khan marrying a gori or you imitating  trump shows how the entire psyche of majority in Pakistan is shaped by the Sahibs out West.

Excuse me but I think that it is too pretentious to compare Afghanistan to other, real countries and their events. You rolled over and handed your poppy field of a country to uncle Sam and now they have stopped spending money and brought in their mercs ISIS who are slaughtering your morphienist "army" and civilians and paving the road to another great Afghani national collapse. The fence was not all we could afford rather we are also heavily mining this side of the border fully ignoring the Geneva convention. We have to safeguard our country from the inevitable fallout. Unlike Trump's wall the Durand line is from a sci-fi horror setting where the living have to try and stop a horde of monsters in order to survive. Afghanis should do something about that. But you should have done something about that when they pulled Karzai out of an American bomb factory and installed over you.

No offense. And hoping for the best.

[Wahdat]

There you go...your rants make for a good make pakistan great again campaign lol.

 

But i still believe in no govt at once (as is the case in afghanistan) than a bad and slave govt of a cartoon of a country like Pakistan- a country that ranks number one only in watching gay porn ...a country that is the cancer of the region.

if I, like you, chanted for a foreign entity such as a state then you could have compared afghanistan to cartoonish pakistan...but i wont...for i consider it a shame...cuz i have the wealth of Persian and Turkic history in my heart & mind to fight for a British bone- whether its pakistan or afghanistan- to hell with the both of them....in an ideal and sane world afghanistan would join iran, and pakistan india... and stopped with all these stupidity & madness.

[The Green Knight]

9 hours ago, Wahdat said:

i have the wealth of Persian and Turkic history in my heart & mind

And I'm the queen of England.

You, my friend, are a generic Afghan as evident by your behavior and the nature of what your "heart and mind" contain. And it is precisely the reason Afghanistan is what it is and why it was taken over by the likes of USSR, India, Taliban, USA, Uzbek mercs, ISIS and whoever else is interested in setting up a global business of drugs. Or perhaps your mind is a product of those events.

[Laayla]

I never knew that Pakistanis and Afghans have issues with each other.  Why?

 

[The Green Knight]

9 minutes ago, Laayla said:

I never knew that Pakistanis and Afghans have issues with each other.  Why?

 

What Afghans? There are no Afghans. Let me explain. The country and its dwellers are sitting in the lap of India and USA and making war upon us at their side instead of being grateful to us for accommodating several million real Afghan refugees for nearly two decades. They say we gave them the Taliban which is a lie and even if it were true their post monarchy recent history indicates that Taliban regime was the better one and before it they were slaughtering each other divided up and playing in the hands of petty, uncharismatic warlords with no vision.

In fact Afghanistan is only a stretch of extremely hazardous wasteland since some time. It is a safe haven for all manner of criminals. During the USSR occupation the Afghans KHAD spread their arms to KGB and the agents crossed the Durand line and would drop toy bombs in the streets of Peshawar to kill our children. Later under each regime, regardless of their views they passively served them, being an arbitrary wasteland people. Uzbek mercenaries living in Afghanistan hired by India or others would cross the border and cause havoc and grief in Pakistan. Not to mention all the smuggling and slash to our economy because it is a lawless wasteland. It is the birthplace of Heroine and millions have died due to it, growing and selling poppy mainly being the produce of Afghan agriculture. A developing country like Pakistan is forced to and can't but build a fence along the hundreds of kilometers of border with Afghanistan. Its like a zombie land. We are also building forts and setting mine fields. We have no choice.

Isn't that sad? We have no particular issues no more than a man trying to defend himself has an issue with a vicious venomous snake.

"Afghans". There are none as we imagine a nation or a community to be. The world thinks its a "muslim country" belonging to the "Afghan nation". I simply say,  prove it. Prove there is one. The last Afghans fled that area decades ago. Like seepage from a wound they have spread all around mostly immediately around what used to be their country. Even Iran these days is sick and tired of them so its not just Pakistan.

[Ashvazdanghe]

Loving of Homeland is from Faith but it not causes that we become enemies each other.

[Wahdat]

6 hours ago, Darth Vader said:

And I'm the queen of England.

You, my friend, are a generic Afghan as evident by your behavior and the nature of what your "heart and mind" contain. And it is precisely the reason Afghanistan is what it is and why it was taken over by the likes of USSR, India, Taliban, USA, Uzbek mercs, ISIS and whoever else is interested in setting up a global business of drugs. Or perhaps your mind is a product of those events.

could it be that it failed to make a good little slave like pakistan? who ever tried to take over were burnt.

[Wahdat]

6 hours ago, Laayla said:

I never knew that Pakistanis and Afghans have issues with each other.  Why?

 

Pakistan is the Israel of the region. It was built on lands stolen from India and Afg by the British. Then it was on the life support of USAid. Along with Israel its the only country that was formed based on 'religion'. Its the womb for all the terrorist organizations.  Like Israel It has hostile relationship with all its neighbours except for China thats bribing it. Most importantly, it is created to block the historical union of Central Asia and Iran with South Asia- and this opening has been crucial for the region since birth of Hinduism to rise of the richest Islamic civilization- the Mughuls. etc etc 

My opposition to this cancerous entity does not come from me being Afghan for I could care less for such a europen given identity and actually see it as an insult...but as someone from the region and with immense love for the region. 

 

[Wahdat]

2 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Loving of Homeland is from Faith but it not causes that we become enemies each other.

not when your homeland is the womb for terrorist organization...your politicians corrupt puppets....your society sick where human or donkey flesh is often sold in restaurants...rampant homosexuality....heaven for all sorts of smuglers...gay-porn capital of the world etc etc...you come from a healthy country like Iran...a country with history and culture and could not understand how dirty and sick Pakistan is until you go and visit...and folks in Pakistan likewise...they have no idea that a country could be healthy and positive like Iran. Hence, loving such a filthy country should be forbidden.

[Sumerian]

6 minutes ago, Wahdat said:

not when your homeland is the womb for terrorist organization...your politicians corrupt puppets....your society sick where human or donkey flesh is often sold in restaurants...rampant homosexuality....heaven for all sorts of smuglers...gay-porn capital of the world etc etc...you come from a healthy country like Iran...a country with history and culture and could not understand how dirty and sick Pakistan is until you go and visit...and folks in Pakistan likewise...they have no idea that a country could be healthy and positive like Iran. Hence, loving such a filthy country should be forbidden.

Lol you kiss the boots of other people and heap praise on other countries because your country is a failiure. 

[Wahdat]

58 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

Lol you kiss the boots of other people and heap praise on other countries because your country is a failiure. 

I consider not selling young girls in slave markets (like Iraq) a resounding success. I consider not defining myself under a European given flag a phenomenal success. Afgs defeated the Brits 3 times, Iraq was defined, created, and ran by Brits...etc etc

What failure are you talking about? Bad economy? I do not see that as a failure for a country that has been @ war for 40 years.

[Wahdat]

1 hour ago, Sumerian said:

Lol you kiss the boots of other people and heap praise on other countries because your country is a failiure. 

let me tell you why I said what I said in that quoted post.

Imam Khoemnei was meeting Edward Shivardnadze (sp) the Soviet foreign minister in Tehran. Imam asked him to make Soviets stop supplying your cousin Saddam from shelling Iranian cities. The foreign minister agreed but on one condition- to support Soviets in Afg. Imam flatly denied...being aware of 1000s of years of common history and brotherhood.

Pakistan, in order to pave wary for Texas oil companies, destroyed Afghanistan literally...ISI announced that they would buy electricity wires, poles, machines from govt owned factories, buses etc etc....in order to escape starvation people ruined whatever little Afg had. Why? Because decission makers in Pakistan lacked the culture and knowledge of history like the Imam from Iran.....even blood of Iranians did not permit his conscience to harm Afg why in Pakistan it was a matter of few dollars....do you get it or should I start drawing pictures?

[Sumerian]

32 minutes ago, Wahdat said:

I consider not selling young girls in slave markets (like Iraq) a resounding success. I consider not defining myself under a European given flag a phenomenal success. Afgs defeated the Brits 3 times, Iraq was defined, created, and ran by Brits...etc etc

What failure are you talking about? Bad economy? I do not see that as a failure for a country that has been @ war for 40 years.

Lol. You think every country has no social issues? Slave markets in Iraq are a result of terrorism and poverty, which are being tackled and going to be defeated insha Allah. It's not even something that existed before 2003.

Afghanistan is currently run by Britain. Iraq was the first Middle Eastern country after the Ottoman Empire was deleted from the map to revolt against Britain. Iran and everyone else were still puppeteering. The borders of modern day Iraq were defined by Britain, and Iraqis were always against these borders. Even in their schools they taught against these borders and called it an imperialist creation, and Iraq has fought wars to change the border, for example Kuwait. But what was the result? War. So the borders are here to stay and any attempt to change them will result in the entire world uniting against you. Btw you yourself are an apologist for American presence in Afghanistan, so you can't smear other countries for being run by Britain.

It's funny you use the example of slave markets to smear Iraq but then you use the excuse of war to explain a bad economy. I'm not saying it's a bad excuse, I'm saying it goes both ways.

Let me explain Afghanistan's failiure. A large segment of the population support the Taliban. And the Taliban has controlled 40%+ of Afghanistan for years. And it is impossible to defeat them. That is Afghanistan's failiure.

[Wahdat]

1 hour ago, Sumerian said:

It's funny you use the example of slave markets to smear Iraq but then you use the excuse of war to explain a bad economy. I'm not saying it's a bad excuse, I'm saying it goes both ways.

Way to always miss the point.

Being poor is ok. Selling someone's mother, sister, wife, or daughter as sex slaves is NOT.

You said Afghanistan was a failure. I said Economically yes, that is unfortunate and result of war; Politically yes, as it must because nation state is a foreign plot; Morally NO!!!!, cuz the non-Pashtun inhabitants of today's Afghanistan are way too honourable, ancient and cultured to resort to such low levels of humanity, and morality despite the way more tougher situation that was their reality.
Look at what happened to Syria after only 7 years of war...Afg has been at war on and off for over 250 years..especially the last 40 years...despite all that Afgs kept it real.

The reason behind this Obvious fact is that unlike Iraq or Pakistan or Saudi or Jordan Afghanistan did not let itself get influenced by Western culture and kept close to its traditional roots where izzat, namoos, chivalry, honour were seen as more important than possessing a flatscreen tv, oil wells, S400s, a toy army, or some tall bldg. get it?

to make long story short- yes economically and politically afg has been a failure...but morally it has been very successful and thats what its people were shooting for.

 

Edited January 23, 2018 by Wahdat