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Forgottenthinker

Contradiction in Quran? Help

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Salam brothers and sisters,

In the Quran surah 7 ayat 27 it says, "O children of Adam, let not Satan tempt you as he removed your parents from Paradise, stripping them of their clothing to show them their private parts. Indeed, he sees you, he and his tribe, from where you do not see them. Indeed, We have made the devils allies to those who do not believe"

Also in the Quran surah 28 ayat 56, "Indeed, [O Muhammad], you do not guide whom you like, but Allah guides whom He wills. And He is most knowing of the [rightly] guided.

So the big question here is does Allah or Satan lead us astray as humans? Hope you guys can clear this up for me. Also this is a problem because even if there is one problem with the Quran the entire book goes down that's why you guys should be cautious when answering this for a confused brother.

Also this brings up a question of free will so do either of these beings guide us as these verses say or do we do what we want to do?

Salam

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This is a very complex matter. Long story short, I think it was imam Reza or imam Sadiq in a debate answered that God manages humanity somewhere between freewill and fate. And information of that is only with God. you can search in internet and find the debates.

Edited by Arminmo

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Hello Arminmo,

If Allah leads us astray than we dont have free will because that overall means its already determined. But if Satan leads us astray then that means we do have freewill because Satan is tempting us to do activities we dont want and I've always been taught by my leaders, Satan leads us astray but it clearly says in that verse above that God leads astray whom he chooses? That is a contradiction in my opinion.

Salam

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Path to god has been defined (known,obvious) !

Quran 6:151-153

Say, "Come, I will recite what your Lord has prohibited to you. [He commands] that you not associate anything with Him, and to parents, good treatment, and do not kill your children out of poverty; We will provide for you and them. And do not approach immoralities - what is apparent of them and what is concealed. And do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden [to be killed] except by [legal] right. This has He instructed you that you may use reason."

And do not approach the orphan's property except in a way that is best until he reaches maturity. And give full measure and weight in justice. We do not charge any soul except [with that within] its capacity. And when you testify, be just, even if [it concerns] a near relative. And the covenant of Allah fulfill. This has He instructed you that you may remember.

And, [moreover], this is My path, which is straight, so follow it; and do not follow [other] ways, for you will be separated from His way. This has He instructed you that you may become righteous.

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9 hours ago, Forgottenthinker said:

Salam brothers and sisters,

In the Quran surah 7 ayat 27 it says, "O children of Adam, let not Satan tempt you as he removed your parents from Paradise, stripping them of their clothing to show them their private parts. Indeed, he sees you, he and his tribe, from where you do not see them. Indeed, We have made the devils allies to those who do not believe"

Also in the Quran surah 28 ayat 56, "Indeed, [O Muhammad], you do not guide whom you like, but Allah guides whom He wills. And He is most knowing of the [rightly] guided.

So the big question here is does Allah or Satan lead us astray as humans? Hope you guys can clear this up for me. Also this is a problem because even if there is one problem with the Quran the entire book goes down that's why you guys should be cautious when answering this for a confused brother.

Also this brings up a question of free will so do either of these beings guide us as these verses say or do we do what we want to do?

Salam

fyi:

 

Quote
هُوَ الَّذِي أَنْزَلَ عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ مِنْهُ آيَاتٌ مُحْكَمَاتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ الْكِتَابِ وَأُخَرُ مُتَشَابِهَاتٌ ۖ فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ فِي قُلُوبِهِمْ زَيْغٌ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ مَا تَشَابَهَ مِنْهُ ابْتِغَاءَ الْفِتْنَةِ وَابْتِغَاءَ تَأْوِيلِهِ ۗ وَمَا يَعْلَمُ تَأْوِيلَهُ إِلَّا اللَّهُ ۗ وَالرَّاسِخُونَ فِي الْعِلْمِ يَقُولُونَ آمَنَّا بِهِ كُلٌّ مِنْ عِنْدِ رَبِّنَا ۗ وَمَا يَذَّكَّرُ إِلَّا أُولُو الْأَلْبَابِ {7}

[Shakir 3:7] He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding.
[Pickthal 3:7] He it is Who hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture wherein are clear revelations - they are the substance of the Book - and others (which are) allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension by seeking to explain it. None knoweth its explanation save Allah. And those who are of sound instruction say: We believe therein; the whole is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really heed.
[Yusufali 3:7] He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.
[Pooya/Ali Commentary 3:7]

As explained in the commentary of verse 2 of al Baqarah the Quran was revealed to the Holy Prophet. He knew the true meaning of every verse, or after him, it was Ali who claimed that he knew when, why and for whom every verse of the Quran was revealed.

Most of the verses of the Quran are clear and decisive. There is no ambiguity in them. They are known as the muhkamat. They relate to the fundamentals of the faith, such as the oneness of Allah, the directions pertaining to the practice of the faith and the laws governing the day to day life of the faithful. They can neither be changed nor modified. Any man of average intelligence can understand and follow them.

The mutashabihat are the verses which have been composed in subtle and profound diction and style. They carry implications other than the literal meanings, and therefore, are capable of giving different significations, like "The hand of Allah is on their hands" in verse 10 of al Fat-h. Verse 1 of al Hud says that the Quran is a book of clear and decisive verses. Verse 23 of al Zumar says that Allah has sent down the very best discourse as a book conformable in its repetition and consimilarity. Only the men of understanding who possess a higher level of intelligence contemplate and find out the meaningful implications of such verses. Average and ordinary minds cannot figure out or have knowledge of the real purport of such verses, and if they try this on their own, they are bewildered and go astray. As mentioned in the commentary of verse 1 of al Baqarah, the huruf muqatta-at are also meaningful but their subtle and profound meanings are known to Allah and His chosen representatives (Muhammad and ali Muhammad) only. Therefore, those who know the true purport of these symbolic letters occupy the highest position in the domain of knowledge and wisdom. In the well-known tradition of thaqalayn the Holy Prophet has clearly made known the fact that whoso remains attached with the Quran and his Ahl ul Bayt, after his departure from this world, will never go astray, because these two weighty authorities will never be separated from each other, and joined together, they shall meet the Holy Prophet at the spring of Kawthar; and "I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate", said the Holy Prophet in order to guide the faithfuls so that, to have knowledge of the Quran, they must refer to Ali and his Ahl ul Bayt, who alone know the true meanings of the mutashabihat.

Zaygh means disease, perversity, evil, and wicked intention, the inclination to go against the truth and to blunder, revolt and go astray. Fitna means to create mischief, or to create difference of opinion and to mislead.

"None knows its interpretation except Allah and those (who are) firmly rooted in knowledge", renders null and void all attempts made by scholars to discover the true meanings of the mutashabihat. The firmly rooted in knowledge are those whom Allah Himself gives the knowledge, as verse 49 of al Ankabut says: But it is clear revelations in the hearts of those who have been given knowledge. Therefore, the observation of the Ahmadi commentator that reading various passages in the light of each discover the true significance of ambiguous passages, is based upon his inclination to go out of the right course. The Christians also try in vain to assign divinity to Isa by calculating the numerical value of the haruf muqatta-at, and misinterpret the complex verses to suit their dubious theories.

How the complex verses can be interpreted is not mentioned in this verse, nor anywhere in the Quran, but it is clearly disclosed that besides Allah only those, endowed with divine knowledge, know the true meanings of the mutashabihat. The firmly rooted in knowledge are the Holy Prophet and his Ahl ul Bayt, the thoroughly purified ones (Ahzab: 33), who possess the desired purity of heart and soul, essential for receiving and holding the truth in order to use it (Waqi-ah: 77 to 79) to do good to themselves and to others. It is obvious that there is no conceivable necessity of revealing complex verses or letter symbols if even the Holy Prophet, to whom the Quran was revealed, did not know their meanings. It is only a hypothetical inquiry, otherwise there is the clear mention of rasikhuna fil ilm (the firmly rooted in knowledge) in this verse, the first among whom is the Holy Prophet, and after him, as said earlier, his Ahlul Bayt are the custodians of his knowledge and wisdom, who alone are entitled to interpret every word of the Quran.

In reply to Anas bin Malik's query about rasikhuna fil ilm the Holy Prophet said:

"They are those whose hands do not do aught but that which is just, righteous and good; whose tongues do not utter aught but that which is true; whose hearts and minds are enlightened and rational; whose stomachs are free from that which is forbidden."

The ayah al tat-hir (Ahzab: 33) confirms that only the thoroughly purified Muhammad and ali Muhammad are the rasikhuna fil ilm. Verse 13 of Luqman says that polytheism (shirk) is the most grievous inequity, the worst type of impurity. It is a historical fact that all the companions of the Holy Prophet, before embracing Islam, for a long time in their lives, were idolworshippers. The Holy Prophet, Bibi Fatimah and Ali ibna abi Talib and their children were the only ones who were free from the impurity of polytheism right from the day they were born. All Muslims, in every age, add karamallahu wajhu (Allah graced and honoured his face above others) after the name of Ali, because he never worshipped any ghayrallah (other than Allah). The Holy Prophet pointed out the essential purity of body and soul in Ali, equal to his own purity, when he said:

"O Ali! Your flesh is my flesh, your blood is my blood. You and I are from one and the same divine light"

Verses 18 of Ali Imran, 162 of al Nisa, 49 of Ankabut, and 11 of al Mujadalah refer to those who have been divinely endowed with knowledge.

As ordinary human beings are unable to know the meanings of the mutashabihat, the divine mercy guides the sincere seekers of the truth to turn to the ahladh dhikr, the Holy Prophet and his Ahlul Bayt (see commentary of verse 43 of al Nahl and verse 7 of al Anbiya):

"So ask the people of dhikr (the reminder or the Quran) if you do not know."

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

Nothing in the earth or in the heavens is hidden from Allah, the self-subsisting, because He is the author of the book of creation (the development of the embryo has been mentioned in the previous verse as an example). In this verse He says that the author of the book of creation is also the author of the book of legislation (the Quran).

The book of creation (the universe) contains miscellaneous signs. Some are clear. Some are intricate and perplexing. For example (in the book of creation) the function and the significance of every part of the human structure has been studied and defined except the "appendix". Now a rational student of the book of creation will say:

"As no part is without some significance, this also must have some meaning, though I have not yet understood it."

On the contrary a mischief-maker will mix up that which is known with that which is not known and deny both by saying:

"As no reason or significance is found in this part, therefore, there is no reason or significance in the whole."

Likewise in the book of legislation, some signs (verses) are clear and decisive (muhkam), and some have several possible meanings (mutashabih), therefore, the rational mind will try to understand the mutashabih (unclear) verses in the light of the muhkam (clear and decisive) verses, by proceeding from the known to the unknown or from the concrete to the abstract; but the perverse mind will judge that which is certainly precise and definite in the light of the complex so as to mislead people by dubious misinterpretations.

Verse 1 of al Hud says that all the verses of the book are well arranged and firmly established. The arrangement of the words in the verses and the verses in the surahs is so accurate and proper that they all form a consistent unity, though they were separately revealed. It implies that the Quran was already arranged and established before its revelation, which is confirmed by verse 105 of Bani Israil. In verse 23 of al Zumar, the book is presented as consistent, consimilar and conformable in its parts (mutashabihan). But in this verse mutashabihat refers to the meanings, the implications, the connotations and the denotations of the complex passages.

Muhtam (clear) and mutashabih (complex) are relative terms. What is unclear to some may be apparent and definite to others. There may be quite a few features and viewpoints inherent in certain ideas, or commands, or narrations. Studying them from a particular angle will make their meaning and purpose crystal clear but their clarity may turn into obscurity when they are viewed from another standpoint. At all events, the complex should be examined and interpreted in the light of that which is clear and decisive, or as explained by the Holy Prophet, or by those whose authority has been established by the Holy Prophet and the Quran (see pages 1 to 7, commentary of verses 6 and 7 of al Fatihah, and verses 2, 30 to 37 and 124 of al Baqarah). In the light of verses 16 to 19 of al Qiyamah, the divine agency collects, recites and interprets the Quran. As the book is a guidance for mankind, there should be no unintelligible or incomprehensible passage in it. There is none. As asserted by the Ahlul Bayt, rasikhuna fil ilm is conjuncted with Allah and yaquluna is an adverbial clause qualifying the state of knowledge, referring to rasikhun. In the Nahj al Balagha, Ali ibna abi Talib says that the rasikhuna fil ilm believe in the unknown in the light of the known. As explained in the commentary of verse 3 of al Baqarah the knowledge of the ghayb (unknown) is with the infinite, therefore, the awareness of the finite created beings, even if they are endowed with the divine insight, cannot be at par with the absolute wisdom of the ghayb ul mutlaq, the hayyul qayyum creator. All that which becomes (in obedience) effective, as soon as He wills, is knowable to man. A finite being can know as much as the infinite all-wise likes him to know and grow in knowledge, which implies that basically his knowledge was insufficient but he rises towards the level of perfection, with the help of divine endowment, on his own merits, to become aware of the meanings of all that which has been revealed in the book, because, if it is not so, such revelations (mutashabihat) would be unprofitable and frustrating. So what Imam Ali ibna abi Talib and Imam Muhammad bin Ali al Baqir have said in this connection is true.

http://quran.al-islam.org/

Also Read the Commentary of the Verse mentioned in your post or any other at: 

Allāmah al-Sayyid Muḥammad Ḥusayn al-Ṭabāṭabāʾī 

http://www.almizan.org/

*****

If you want to Enter the city of Knowledge

 "I am the city of knowledge and 'Ali is its gate" 

The English translation (accompanied with original Arabic text) of the supremely eloquent sermons of the Commander of the Faithful, Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib (peace be upon him).

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings

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13 hours ago, Forgottenthinker said:

Hello Arminmo,

If Allah leads us astray than we dont have free will because that overall means its already determined. But if Satan leads us astray then that means we do have freewill because Satan is tempting us to do activities we dont want and I've always been taught by my leaders, Satan leads us astray but it clearly says in that verse above that God leads astray whom he chooses? That is a contradiction in my opinion.

Salam

If you picked up a Book of Concepts and Principles, it said there are Clear Verses and Allegorical Verses.

Why would you cherry pick - verses to show a contradiction? 

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11 hours ago, S.M.H.A. said:

As explained in the commentary of verse 2 of al Baqarah the Quran was revealed to the Holy Prophet. He knew the true meaning of every verse, or after him, it was Ali who claimed that he knew when, why and for whom every verse of the Quran was revealed.

Most of the verses of the Quran are clear and decisive. There is no ambiguity in them. They are known as the muhkamat. They relate to the fundamentals of the faith, such as the oneness of Allah, the directions pertaining to the practice of the faith and the laws governing the day to day life of the faithful. They can neither be changed nor modified. Any man of average intelligence can understand and follow them.

This brings up another question, In the quran surah 54 verse 17 it states, "And We have certainly made the Qur'an easy for remembrance, so is there any who will remember?" So if the Quran is the word of Allah why does it state he has made it easy for remembrance or understanding if there are many interpretations that also contradicts the 3:7 verse you revealed to me that states the Quran is difficult to follow?

 However the rest you showed me kinda made sense thank you

salam

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1 hour ago, S.M.H.A. said:

I want to ask you a simple question, do want to be on a path of god or path of Satan ?

God of course but I dont think he's making me easy for me to follow.

1 hour ago, S.M.H.A. said:

Do you think in Quran path to god has been defined (known,obvious) or path to god is unknown (mysterious) ?

From my own experiences mysterious due to the many interpretations of the holy book

2 hours ago, Arminmo said:

Path to god has been defined (known,obvious) !

Look at this our brother S.M.H.A quoted

1 hour ago, S.M.H.A. said:

Pickthal 3:7] He it is Who hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture wherein are clear revelations - they are the substance of the Book - and others (which are) allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension by seeking to explain it. None knoweth its explanation save Allah. And those who are of sound instruction say: We believe therein; the whole is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really heed.

Salam

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7 hours ago, Forgottenthinker said:

Hello Arminmo,

If Allah leads us astray than we dont have free will because that overall means its already determined. But if Satan leads us astray then that means we do have freewill because Satan is tempting us to do activities we dont want and I've always been taught by my leaders, Satan leads us astray but it clearly says in that verse above that God leads astray whom he chooses? That is a contradiction in my opinion.

Salam

If God already has decided our fate, we indisputable have got no free will. A cruel and unfair God if you ask me. I am certain God has given us all a free will, which means the fates of us being alive are still unknown to God. 

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Abu hanifa asked imam musa kazim as 

from whom does disobedience (issue)? Does it issue from Allah or from the servant?"

The Imam answered him, saying: "Either it issues from Allah and not from the servant at all, so Allah does not punish the servant for what he does not do; or it issues from the servant and Allah, and Allah is a stronger partner. Therefore, the stronger partner has no right to punish the weak for a sin in which they are equal; or it issues form the servant and not from Allah. So If He wills to pardon (him), (He will pardon him), and If He wills to punish (him), (He will punish him); and Allah is He whose help is sought." 

Edited by father

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2 hours ago, andres said:

which means the fates of us being alive are still unknown to God. 

It depends on how do you define the word fate,if you mean it’s still unknown that you will end up being rich or poor that’s a different matter, but if , by fate ,you mean that you will end up in heaven or hell, that’s clearly shown in Quran as I wrote on top. It’s your choice. as god said to adam Quran 2:38 “anyone that follows messengers of god will be saved.”  true words of the messengers that should have been written at their own time, book should be untouched reliable. Quran is the only book that can save humanity.

Edited by Arminmo

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1 hour ago, Arminmo said:

It depends on how do you define the word fate,if you mean it’s still unknown that you will end up being rich or poor that’s a different matter, but if , by fate ,you mean that you will end up in heaven or hell, that’s clearly shown in Quran as I wrote on top. It’s your choice. as god said to adam Quran 2:38 “anyone that follows messengers of god will be saved.”  true words of the messengers that should have been written at their own time, book should be untouched reliable. Quran is the only book that can save humanity.

If God already knows our destiny, he creates persons that he knows he will send to hell after death. On purpose. Not very sympathetic.

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2 hours ago, andres said:

True. If everything is predestined, we all participate in a play already written.

True, so by your statement, you are not predestined and you have the will of choosing , right ? Path shown in Wich religion did you choose? and why ?

Edited by Arminmo

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5 minutes ago, Arminmo said:

True. If everything is predestined, we all participate in a play already written.

Hieven  in modern Plays/Games you have multiple  endings based on your choices during the gameplay

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11 hours ago, Forgottenthinker said:

God of course but I dont think he's making me easy for me to follow.

From my own experiences mysterious due to the many interpretations of the holy book

Look at this our brother S.M.H.A quoted

Salam

in that verse god is pointing to people like “isis” that they just read one verse, and they go outside attack countries and people and kill them. God has ordered us to act fare with people of scripture , but those extremist read and interpret verses the way they want to:

“And do not argue with the People of the Scripture except in a way that is best, except for those who commit injustice among them, and say, "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you. And our God and your God is one; and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him." Quran29:46

 

path to god is shown in those verses that I wrote on top for you, it’s easy.

it takes time for you to read and connect all verses together. Don’t read just one verse. Read the whole book.

Edited by Arminmo

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35 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Hieven  in modern Plays/Games you have multiple  endings based on your choices during the gameplay

 Are there multiple endings, the writer does not know what will happen. 

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46 minutes ago, Arminmo said:

True, so by your statement, you are not predestined and you have the will of choosing , right ? Path shown in Wich religion did you choose? and why ?

Since I do not believe in predestiny, I do not believe God already now knows his final judgement.

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9 minutes ago, andres said:

 Are there multiple endings, the writer does not know what will happen. 

Writer knows All the endings. There is only 2 ending. Heaven or hell.

Edited by Arminmo

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1 minute ago, andres said:

Are there multiple endings, the writer does not know what will happen

Writer knows every endings but let us to choose them by our choices all of us has multiple endings & it's based our choices during our life time we can chose our way Allah in Holy Quran shows us all endings  but let us to choose our destiny by ouselves it shows each action destination although let us choose between them.

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