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In the Name of God بسم الله
co2017

Jesus Christ said I am the Truth. Why is truth ignored?

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On 4/16/2018 at 7:24 AM, andres said:

So....The only messages from God remaining today is the Quran and the Bible. If God sent messages to Eskimoes, Australian aboriginals, Britain, Japan and every other inhabited spot on our planet, had he not tested enough to know that next time the message had to be preserved? It makes little sense to me that the Quran was the only revelation God bothered to portect from corruption or extinction, of the many thousands God sent to mankind.

Even more so if He knew this would happen before he started revealing.

 

I find it very interesting that the Aboriginals of North America had similarities to Christianity before white men took over. It was said the religions could co exist in the same belief system. Not really sure what that means. They believed in many spirits, but one God. These spirits interacted with them and it was well known within their circle. They didn't make any sacred texts so now it's all folklore, right? 

 

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2 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

I find it very interesting that the Aboriginals of North America had similarities to Christianity before white men took over. It was said the religions could co exist in the same belief system. Not really sure what that means. They believed in many spirits, but one God. These spirits interacted with them and it was well known within their circle. They didn't make any sacred texts so now it's all folklore, right? 

 

It is called "henotheism". 

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Or maybe not exactly. Henotheism believes in many Gods, but they choose to worship one of them as their protector, and let other tribes have one of the others. Jews and Arabs were originally henotheists. Belief in "spirits" not being Gods, is more like beliefs in Angels or Jinns.

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42 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

I am not shocked. Most Christians do not know how many horrible laws and stories there are in the Old Testament. (Hebrew Bible). Actually the Old Testament is much worse than the Quran. This must be seen in the light of the Old Testament being 1.000 years older than the Quran. The Quran is strongly influenced by the Old Testament, and really very little influenced by the New Testament Books (Christian Bible), wich even if 600 years older has a more modern ethics. 

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1 hour ago, andres said:

What about trying to prove your claim that the Torah we know today is not the Torah that Jesus and his fellow Jews knew?

Yes, the Zoroastrian book (AVESTA) also rewritten after demolishing & is older than any book like as Torah & Bible but nobody claims that is intact.

Quran experiment downingtown west (completely Eng)

https://youtu.be/Og6yF2PEugE

 

another Quran project

https://youtu.be/0ksx_zAVFYU

 

Qu

Quran experiment In California 

 

James white’s reaction to Quran experiment 

https://youtu.be/lxfdk06OYFY

 

Can we trust Quran (James white)

 

James white & new testament

 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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4 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Yes, the Zoroastrian book (AVESTA) also rewritten after demolishing & is older than any book like as Torah & Bible but nobody claims that is intact.

If they dont claim they are intact, they need not prove they are.

You claim Jesus and his fellow Jews had not the same Torah as the Torah we know today. Can you prove this????????

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On 1/1/2018 at 4:57 AM, hasanhh said:

@Yaaqov Ben Yisrael should comment/answer this.

I apologize for the lateness in this response- I have been very busy in other projects. The verb R-B-B is rich with meaning- among which is to be lord or master, to rear or foster, as well as to arrange or order. The Hebrew for father is Ab אב and the Hebrew for son is Ben בן which is a shortened form of Eben אבן which also means a stone. A related verb is BaNaH בנה which means to build. When Sarah suggested that Avraham take Hagar as a wife, she made the reply אוּלַ֥י אִבָּנֶ֖ה מִמֶּ֑נָּה ulai ibbaneh mimminnah "perhaps I made bear children [ibbaneh] from her." The same verb can also mean [I build]. The father is the the first link in a building [a house] in which the children build- thus making a nation ummah אמה/امة [a word which is derived from mother Umm].

Allah is certainly the sustsainer and the nurisher of the world and He ultimately fosters his creations as He alone provide for their every need. We are not only His creation, but His design and construction as well. This reminds me of the narrative of the creation of the first humans in the Torah.


וַיִּבְרָ֨א אֱלֹהִ֤ים׀ אֶת־הָֽאָדָם֙ בְּצַלְמֹ֔ו בְּצֶ֥לֶם אֱלֹהִ֖ים בָּרָ֣א אֹתֹ֑ו זָכָ֥ר וּנְקֵבָ֖ה בָּרָ֥א אֹתָֽם׃

So Elohim created the Man [adam] in his image, in the image of Elohim, he created him; male and female he created them. Genesis 1:27

This was on the 6th day of creation; according to chapter two, Adam was created before the other creation was yet present upon the Earth- which could be explained in many different ways. What is clear, from the second chapter, is that the male was created first- then the female from the male.

Every human male born today is born with two specific sex chromosomes- X and Y. The X chromosome is the specific female sex chromosome and the Y is the specific male sex chromosome. Females inherit one X chromosome from their mothers and one X chromosome from their fathers; the males inherit the X chromosome from their mothers and the Y from their fathers. It was this X chromosome, in my opinion, which was separated from the first male to create the female- not a rib.

The Hebrew word, צֶלַע tsela' meant a chamber, or side-chamber as well as a rib or side; it is- more than likely- from, this word that the Latin cella came from. In Latin, cella meant chamber and this word passed into English as cell. Interestingly, Rashi made the following comment on Ezekiel 41:6 

"צלע אל צלע. תא אל תא ותא על תא׃
‎צלע אל צלע. Cell [tsela'] to cell [tsela'] and cell [ta] to cell [ta].

צלע אל צלע. תא אל תא ותא על תא׃
‎צלע אל צלע. Cell to cell and cell to cell.
שלוש ושלשים פעמים. ובבית שני היו ל״ח ט״ו בצפון וט״ו בדרום חמשה על חמשה וחמשה על גביהם ושמונה במערב הוא צלע הוא יציע הוא תא, ואומר אני שהתאים שבצפון ובדרום כך סדרן שכל א׳ וא׳ ארכו י״ב אמה הרי ס׳ אמה לחמש תאים וה׳ כתלים של ה׳ אמה הרי פ״ה ורחב ה׳ אמות של המונח פירנסת צ׳ אמה של אורך הכותל וכן לדרום ושבמערב א׳ ע״ג א׳ ושלישי על גביהן ואורכן על גביהם כ׳ אמה כנגד רחב בית קדשי הקדשים הרי י״א בכל סדר וכת״י חד עסרי בסידרא. ס״א׃
‎שלוש ושלשים פעמים. But in the Second Temple, there were thirty-eight: fifteen in the north, and fifteen in the south - five upon five, and five atop them - and eight in the west. [The term] צלע‎ [tsela'] is synonymous with יציע‎ [yetsi'a] and with תא [ta]‎. I say that the cells [ta'im- plural of ta] in the north and the south were arranged as follows: each one was twelve cubits long, totaling sixty cubits for five cells [ta'im], and five walls of five cubits each, totaling 85. The width of the cleared space was five cubits. Thus you have accounted for ninety cubits of the length of the wall, and so to the south. Those in the west were one on top of another, and a third atop them, and their length across their top was twenty cubits, paralleling the width of the Holy of Holies, making eleven in each row. So did Jonathan render: eleven in a row." [the bracketed sections are mine for emphasis].

Ta [תא] is the word used for cell in biology in modern Hebrew.

https://www.morfix.co.il/en/תא

In verse 21, it used the plural tsal'oth, but in verse 22 it used the singular. We can, therefore, substitute the word cell for tsela' in these verses:

And YHWH God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; and He took one of his cells, and closed up the place with flesh instead thereof. And the cell, which YHWH God had taken from the man, made He a woman, and brought her unto the man. And the man said: 'This is substance/essence of my substance/essence, and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.'

Another interesting point of verse 22 is that the normal Hebrew word for "make" was not used; instead, the Hebrew word for "build" was used.

וַיִּבֶן יְהֹוָה אֱלֹהִים אֶת־הַצֵּלָע אֲשֶׁר־לָקַח מִן־הָֽאָדָם לְאִשָּׁה וַיְבִאֶהָ אֶל־הָֽאָדָֽם׃

And YHWH built/constructed [yivneh- the imperfect form of BaNaH to build, to construct] the cell which he took from the man as a woman and brought her to the man.

Early genetic engineering?

 

Ya'aqov ben Yisrael

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2 hours ago, Yaaqov Ben Yisrael said:

Early genetic engineering?

Salam/Shalom brother

Thank you very much for the "read around it"(as I understand you all say) information. The chr!stian leadership dislikes people knowing the nuanced meanings so they dismiss them.

You quoted Gn 1:27, we had -in our 1st Commandment church- that "image" is 'mental image'/'image of mind' or how else can there be male and female at the same time.

As a Muslim, l Iike the 'build' part.

I do not extrapolate any of this into 'genetic engineering' because this is a human construct and such constructions can never be affixed -much less ascribed- to the God-of-Noah-(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

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8 hours ago, Yaaqov Ben Yisrael said:

So Elohim created the Man [adam] in his image, in the image of Elohim, he created him; male and female he created them. Genesis 1:27

thanks but it contradicts with Islamic belief specially in Shia Islam because considering any shape or form for God is not accepted in Islam 

 

8 hours ago, Yaaqov Ben Yisrael said:

This was on the 6th day of creation; according to chapter two, Adam was created before the other creation was yet present upon the Earth- which could be explained in many different ways. What is clear, from the second chapter, is that the male was created first- then the female from the male.

the first creature was Prophet Muhammad (pbu) that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) & lady Fatima (sa) & their two sons created after him & everything created after their creation & Prophet Adam (as0 & his wife created from same matter but his wife not created from him ,that based on Qur'an & Shia narrations there was intelligent creatures on Earth before descending 

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On 3/6/2018 at 6:58 PM, Hameedeh said:

It seems that the 'fire and brimstone' is the emphasis of all the Baptist churches. The protestant church (Church of Christ/Church of God) that I attended before I became a Muslim had an emphasis on 'Be baptized or you won't go to Heaven." 

What made you convert? Like was it the original sin?

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1 hour ago, Isaam said:

What made you convert? Like was it the original sin?

Not at all. I was disillusioned by Christians in my own church who were not behaving like Christ (peace be upon him). When I went to college/university, I met Muslims who had good behavior and I was impressed by their prayers. 

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18 hours ago, Hameedeh said:

Not at all. I was disillusioned by Christians in my own church who were not behaving like Christ (peace be upon him). When I went to college/university, I met Muslims who had good behavior and I was impressed by their prayers. 

Oh cool, that makes sense

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Quote

Neither shall they say, ‘Lo, it is here!’ or ‘Lo, it is there!’ For behold, the Kingdom of God is within you.”

 

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On 6/25/2019 at 12:09 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

thanks but it contradicts with Islamic belief specially in Shia Islam because considering any shape or form for God is not accepted in Islam 

 

the first creature was Prophet Muhammad (pbu) that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) & lady Fatima (sa) & their two sons created after him & everything created after their creation & Prophet Adam (as0 & his wife created from same matter but his wife not created from him ,that based on Qur'an & Shia narrations there was intelligent creatures on Earth before descending 

Some Sunnis, though historically they have been fringe, believe that God has an uncreated body of some sort.

Correct if I am wrong but my understanding was that it is was the light of the Ahl al-Kisa that was created first rather they themselves as such?

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10 hours ago, Celtic Twilight said:

Some Sunnis, though historically they have been fringe, believe that God has an uncreated body of some sort.

Correct if I am wrong but my understanding was that it is was the light of the Ahl al-Kisa that was created first rather they themselves as such?

hi , you are right but we as Shias don't believe to any physical form like as 'uncreated body of some sort" & it's completely against our believe & we believe that  Ahl al-Kisa were first creations as luminous entities or figures  

31 minutes ago, Son of Placid said:

And God said "Let there be light" and there was light. After the heavens and the Earth, that light was the first creation. The light was created before the sun, who was that light?

hi , we (Shias) belive the first light & first creation was Prophet Muhammad (pbu) that he was first Ahl al-Kisa

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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No Christian can prove a single statement attributed to Jesus in the New Testament is something he actually said. Everything in the "gospels" attributed to Jesus is hearsay. The authors of these "gospels" took stories and tales regarding Jesus that were already in circulation and shaped these "gospels" trying to write their own theology and beliefs within them to solidify their own theology/beliefs/creed. They were blatantly written with predetermined intent. The fact remains that the alleged disciples of Jesus were said to be illiterate (Acts 4:13) so they couldn't have authored these writings, and only the actual followers of Jesus who were with him personally would be the best candidates to transmit his actual teachings and sayings. 

The most we can verify historically without any claims of divine inspiration or Revelation is that:

There was a man by the name of "Jesus" who lived in Palestine during the first century BCE. He taught/preached teachings called the "Gospel" to the Hebrew/Israelite inhabitants of Palestine. He himself was a Hebrew/Israelite by descent. He likely claimed prophethood at the most and was without a doubt a teacher at the least. There were claims that he was crucified by the Romans due to pressure from the Jews but this cannot be verified historically as there are no non-Christian records to attest to this. And the fact that Christians had to fabricate evidence (Testimonium Flavianum) further proves that the evidence wasn't there. And the fact that there are no less than twenty discrepancies and contradictions regarding the crucifixion alone further hurts the case of Christianity. And even if he was crucified the belief that he died on the cross can be contested using the Bible itself (another discussion however).

Edited by Abu Shareef

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On 12/30/2017 at 10:36 PM, yusur317 said:

NEW TESTAMENT John 13:14

Jesus the Way to the Father 

Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?" 

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No-one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." 

It is called Advaita (non dualism).

We say "Aham Brahmasmi" I am the Brahman.

Jesus telling the same thing "I am the truth"

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I believe that people do not like the truth because they create their own answers to the truth in order to make their lives more comfortable, easier. They want to change the things that they do not like. Sadly, truth is factual, fixed, and cannot be changed. In today's society, people try to teach that truth is whatever you want it to be, that it is subjective. This is a deadly mistake to make. That all opinions, even opposing ones, are truth. How can this be? 

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On 6/24/2019 at 5:12 PM, Yaaqov Ben Yisrael said:

And YHWH God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; and He took one of his cells, and closed up the place with flesh instead thereof. And the cell, which YHWH God had taken from the man, made He a woman, and brought her unto the man. And the man said: 'This is substance/essence of my substance/essence, and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.'

Ya'aqov ben Yisrael

Mashallah Very Jewish explanation, clear and sound. bravo

So this common knowledge amougst learnt Jew and Rabbis?  Or is this a very Biblical way of signaling that Jesus couldn't not have been born without a human father?

I hope im not coming off as a rude sceptic, im very impressed with use of biblical references. I am curious if this is a common argument against immaculate conception.

Thank you very much for your reply

and reply at your convenience

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On 7/29/2019 at 6:44 PM, Krishn said:

It is called Advaita (non dualism).

We say "Aham Brahmasmi" I am the Brahman.

Jesus telling the same thing "I am the truth"

Yep, that's "I and the father are one", from the meaning of the text itself. However the New Testament is not the historical Jesus.

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On 12/23/2017 at 7:21 AM, co2017 said:

why is truth ignored?

 because people ignore the teachings of Jesus.

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The determining revelation is Ayat 6:73.

Allah -(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). is al-Haqq because 0nly He -(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). has 'kun fayakun'.

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On 12/23/2017 at 7:51 PM, co2017 said:

why is truth ignored?

The truth is not ignored and will never be ignored brother.

But you need to understand the fact that jesus p.b.u.h was the Prophet of his time and during his time he was the only truth on the Earth so he refers to "the people of his time" that he is the only truth. 

He is the truth today as well and we do acknowledge them but since jesus and all the Prophet before them had announced particularly that "a Warner would come after him" and when he comes you have to obey and follow them, so as Mohammed (p.b.u.t) is the last and final messenger, we have to follow him only as instructed by jesus p.b.u.h.

 

Hope this answers the question.

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Truth must be absolute. Otherwise, it would not be true. It cannot be interpreted by what one person or another, one faith system or a different one, believes. It does not change with time or arguments. However, people and people groups can be blinded by God, kept from understanding and believing it. In God's omnipotent wisdom, He has the power to reveal or conceal truth. We are foolish to argue about what is truth, unless it has been revealed to us by God. Jesus said He is the way, the truth and the life; that no man besides Him knows the truth; and that it was revealed to Him by His Father God. As Pilate had the authority on Earth to condemn Jesus to death, he asked Jesus, sincerely, "What is truth?" 

Then Pilate said to him, "So you are a king?" Jesus answered, "You say that I am a king. For this purpose I was born and for this purpose I have come into the world-to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice." - John 18:37

All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. - Matthew 11:27

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5 hours ago, MartyS said:

Truth must be absolute. Otherwise, it would not be true. It cannot be interpreted by what one person or another, one faith system or a different one, believes. It does not change with time or arguments. However, people and people groups can be blinded by God, kept from understanding and believing it. In God's omnipotent wisdom, He has the power to reveal or conceal truth. We are foolish to argue about what is truth, unless it has been revealed to us by God. Jesus said He is the way, the truth and the life; that no man besides Him knows the truth; and that it was revealed to Him by His Father God. As Pilate had the authority on Earth to condemn Jesus to death, he asked Jesus, sincerely, "What is truth?" 

Then Pilate said to him, "So you are a king?" Jesus answered, "You say that I am a king. For this purpose I was born and for this purpose I have come into the world-to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice." - John 18:37

All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. - Matthew 11:27

Your argument sounds nice but is weak.

If you say, it is only Jesus who said I am truth, you research is incorrect.

Shri Krishna in bhagvad Gita , chapter 10 says - "I am the truth and the existence of the universe is from me"

In Islam Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) says "Ali ((عليه السلام)) is with truth and truth is with Ali".

You have to come to the conclusion that every religion preached truth. It was the same message and it was passed from one to another. Since Prophet Muhammad was the last messenger bringing the same truth we have to adhere and follow them. I do not say this, it was well informed by Jesus in Bible as well to accept him once he arrives.

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1 hour ago, Man Kunto Maula said:

You have to come to the conclusion that every religion preached truth. It was the same message and it was passed from one to another. Since Prophet Muhammad was the last messenger bringing the same truth we have to adhere and follow them. I do not say this, it was well informed by Jesus in Bible as well to accept him once he arrives.

I am so happy to think that Jesus may be returning soon, this time as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. As we are being told to stay indoors all over the world during these days, I have been reminded of these words of the Prophet Isaiah...

Come, my people, enter your chambers, and shut your doors behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until the fury has passed by.  - Isaiah 26:20

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