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In the Name of God بسم الله
co2017

Jesus Christ said I am the Truth. Why is truth ignored?

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27 minutes ago, andres said:

What many prophets? Which ones the last 1.400 years after Muhammed?

Prophet Mohammad (SAW) is the last prophet. This has been made clear. The Quran is the last book from Allah. 

Many prophets have been sent before Prophet Mohammad (AS), such as Lot (AS), Adam (AS), Joseph (AS), Jesus (AS), Moses (AS).

only 25 prophets have been mentioned out of over 100,000.

Edited by Islandsandmirrors

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3 hours ago, andres said:

What many prophets? Which ones the last 1.400 years after Muhammed?

Hi when Imam Mahdi (aj) reappears shows  all original holy text to people which kept by all 11 Imams before him .

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On 3/12/2018 at 3:38 PM, Islandsandmirrors said:

Allah knew that the Torah and Injeel would be changed. That is why He sent Islam as a way to perfect religion.

I'm 100% behind you on your post, except the first two statements. May be a mix of words or my interpretation, but as I understand it, the Injeel can't be changed. The Injeel was the first and last revelation given to every Prophet. This being the case, Islam was the name of the religion of the Injeel since Adam. If there was a change, it was due to demographics. 

The Torah is pretty much what it was when it was written, as it was written. It was kept well guarded, as it is now. Of course all the originals are dust. There are fragments of some of the oldest copies on display, or deep in Israel's chambers. Just try to go re-write them. You wouldn't have entered the "Holy of Holies"  with the intent either. They were pretty dramatic back then. I don't believe anyone has really had opportunity to tamper with them, other than to translate.

They were only the first five books of what became "The Holy Bible", along with many other books from Prophets and kings, and the New Testament, (four main biographies and many letters on how that should impact our lives. Some of the books, either written by kings, or those who followed the king may have embellished, (description of the kingdom of Solomon), but people will continue to dig, and come up with theories for and against, just so we have something to argue about...

My conviction is; If all you get out of the Old Testament are the Ten Commandments, you have enough to move forward.

 

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On ‎3‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 3:27 AM, co2017 said:

Why would the Qu'ron correct what the Holy Bible says? Are you saying God cannot protect His own word? He is not powerful enough to protect His perfect word?

Aren't you yourself saying that God had materialistic human desires of begetting a son, so that he ended up with one?

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On 3/11/2018 at 9:18 PM, co2017 said:

Jesus said I and my Father are one. He also said He could do nothing unless His Father sent Him to do it.

Quotes from your changed bible is not reliable.

contents within your gospels can not be verified. It’s written by unknown writers.

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On 3/11/2018 at 9:27 PM, co2017 said:

Why would the Qu'ron correct what the Holy Bible says? Are you saying God cannot protect His own word? He is not powerful enough to protect His perfect word?

Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى put in the Bible a promise (a test). A promise to those who try to tamper His words in the Bible that they would face hell fire:

Revelation 22:18-19 King James Version (KJV)

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

jews and Christians failed the test of god, proof of failure: original words of their prophets does not exist.

 

This time, god promised the protection by himself:

Quran 15:9

We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).

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On 4/7/2018 at 6:29 PM, Arminmo said:

jews and Christians failed the test of god, proof of failure: original words of their prophets does not exist.

Rather cynical aren't we? What proof have you that Jews and Christians failed. Did somebody you know go to hell cuz of it and come back to tell you?

In one instance you are saying it's all corrupt, then you're saying God put a test at the end of the Bible that everybody so far has failed. You are preaching it like you believe it.  The problem is, your special insight into what's not corrupt feigns context and is riddled with propaganda. 

Original words of the Prophets were as oral as Muhammad's. They were the same message. The oral scriptures were handed down, memorized until they could be written and compiled. You do know that papyrus doesn't last forever right? It would be like digging up the original text of the Qu'ran. You must also know that as with the Qu'ran, the scriptures were sacred and kept secure, nobody left them out in the rain. Nobody left them open with pencil and eraser on the side. When scrolls got old they copied in groups of scholars, too many to fool. 

Twice in history the scriptures have been compiled into one version and presented as official... The two names that come to the foreground. Emperor Constantine, and  Uthman ibn Affan. The evolution of our scriptures history is not so different. It would seem unusual to deny the method God chose to preserve His scriptures the first round, yet accept the same method the second time. Jesus came because the Jews corrupted the religion, not the books. In the same way the Qu'ran states more than once it confirms past scripture. Any mention of corruption mentioned in the Qu'ran has to do with the religion, not the books. Take a closer look.

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On 12/29/2017 at 9:45 AM, co2017 said:

thank you for the answer to why people ignore truth. Yes I am a Christian. Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life no man comes to the Father but by Him.

Can I ask you - how did people pre-Jesus come to God?

There are thousands and thousands of years of history before the time of the Prophet Isa (Jesus), since the dawn of man.

If you believe that salvation is only attainable through Jesus because of the crucifixion, what happens to these other people before?

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22 minutes ago, andres said:

People also came to God before Muhammed. Same thing.

Yes, of course, but it's not the same. Because we believe everything on the earth and the heavens belongs to Allah and there are no partners to Him. Life comes through Him and it returns to Him, for judgement alone. The Prophet Muhammad (s) was sent as a messenger and reminder to mankind.

This was always the case with the Prophets, reminding and guiding mankind towards Allah.

Then all of a sudden, the Christian concept appears

'Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life no man comes to the Father but by Him'

Suddenly, one must acknowledge that Jesus saved mankind through the act of crucifixion, giving his sacrifice for salvation

So - as I asked before, what happens to the people pre-Jesus? They must be judged obviously. So now we have a divide:

 

Some can be judged by God

______________________

Some have all their sins forgiven by believing in Jesus Christ (before judgement too, which is a mainstream view in Christianity)

 

Yet the concept of God and His mercy remains in the background as He has always given us and hasn't changed

To believe you have to have this faith in Jesus to be forgiven all of a sudden, you are essentially saying that God has lost the ability to forgive and give mercy to people

Or the other Christian approach taken with 'faith over acts' that no one can outweigh their sin on scales, is again suggesting that God cannot forgive people on His own accord.

To do so is to place human misunderstandings of limitations onto Allah. In the Quran consistently it's written Allah is most gracious, most merciful, oft forgiving.

 

Edited by TheGreenWanderer

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On 12/23/2017 at 9:21 AM, co2017 said:

?why is truth ignored?

Salam

God is the Truth, Eternal, Everlivihng,

If you say something other than God is truth you are saying you can imagine infinity. But as we are finite being we cant imagine infinity, Everliving God. Therefore Jeesus, Son of Mary (AS) never said I am truth, since his Lord is Truth and he was with the Truth, but not the truth. If you say alphabets are truth, you can for sentence like "This sentence is false", or "This sentence is unprovable." Gurt Gödel prooved that anything that can self reference itself  can not be ultimate truth meaning, and Jesus, son of mary (AS) can not  be truth sin.ce he is only finite humanbeing.

My Question is: Muhammed is the last messenger, and Allah is our Lord. What do you say tho this?

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59 minutes ago, TheGreenWanderer said:

So - as I asked before, what happens to the people pre-Jesus? They must be judged obviously. 

The message of salvation throu Jesus is for the generations contemporary with him and coming thereafter. Before Christianity there were other religions with other rules. 

Same thing with Islam. Before Muhammed, Arabs were all pagan, worshipping lots of Gods (360 or so), except for some small Jewish and Christian groups. Certainly God knows how to deal with pagans. And I am sure many of them qualifies for Paradise.  Polytheist still exist, and many never heard about our God

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20 hours ago, TheGreenWanderer said:

Yes, of course, but it's not the same. Because we believe everything on the earth and the heavens belongs to Allah and there are no partners to Him. Life comes through Him and it returns to Him, for judgement alone. The Prophet Muhammad (s) was sent as a messenger and reminder to mankind.

This was always the case with the Prophets, reminding and guiding mankind towards Allah.

Then all of a sudden, the Christian concept appears

'Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life no man comes to the Father but by Him'

Suddenly, one must acknowledge that Jesus saved mankind through the act of crucifixion, giving his sacrifice for salvation

So - as I asked before, what happens to the people pre-Jesus? They must be judged obviously. So now we have a divide:

 

Some can be judged by God

______________________

Some have all their sins forgiven by believing in Jesus Christ (before judgement too, which is a mainstream view in Christianity)

 

Yet the concept of God and His mercy remains in the background as He has always given us and hasn't changed

To believe you have to have this faith in Jesus to be forgiven all of a sudden, you are essentially saying that God has lost the ability to forgive and give mercy to people

Or the other Christian approach taken with 'faith over acts' that no one can outweigh their sin on scales, is again suggesting that God cannot forgive people on His own accord.

To do so is to place human misunderstandings of limitations onto Allah. In the Quran consistently it's written Allah is most gracious, most merciful, oft forgiving.

 

It's unfortunate that's all you were taught about Christians. 

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