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In the Name of God بسم الله
co2017

Jesus Christ said I am the Truth. Why is truth ignored?

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23 minutes ago, Sisterfatima1 said:

Why is it ignored when Jesus said many times in the bible I am not god 

Can you post the verses, please?

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On 2/28/2018 at 1:21 PM, Son of Placid said:

Not a chance Brother. If you don't believe in a trinity you're going to the same hell I am, lol.

It seems that the 'fire and brimstone' is the emphasis of all the Baptist churches. The protestant church (Church of Christ/Church of God) that I attended before I became a Muslim had an emphasis on 'Be baptized or you won't go to Heaven." 

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Watch these 2 small videos, there are hundreds of sentences such as these in the bible. When I began my journey to Islam, I started from My book, the bible, Ahmad deedat managed to prove to me how the bible was manipulated throughout the years, this made me very confused and lost. The truth behind the bible and Christianity is Very clear, it is pretty much available for the one who needs to see. We are in the era of technology where nothing can be hidden.

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On 3/6/2018 at 4:58 PM, Hameedeh said:

It seems that the 'fire and brimstone' is the emphasis of all the Baptist churches. The protestant church (Church of Christ/Church of God) that I attended before I became a Muslim had an emphasis on 'Be baptized or you won't go to Heaven." 

Yes it is. Follow all the rules or you're going to hell. Weeping and gnashing of teeth. Actually, "brimstone" is sulfur. It is mentioned a few times in the Bible, but never says you will be covered in it and burn for eternity. It's actually never referenced as such, but it sure keeps the congregation in check.  

Old Testament references include Sodom and Gomorrah, or a cursed leader with fields of sulfur, meaning it's baron, nothing can grow.

New Testament reference is about the end times. It makes it sound more like the earth becomes so volatile that it ignites and kills about a third of the world's population, or it could be a bomb.... The Revelation of John mentions that people will burn "in the presence of angels and God" at that time, no reference to eternity. Angels aren't going to be present in hell so won't be watching for all eternity. It's a one time event as I see it. I believe that after living in a human body, then left conscious and Godless as a spirit with no moving parts could be hell enough. 

I'm no expert, and not always sure if I'm gathering truth or theory from my interpretations but still, there's actually no good reason to believe sinners will get a new body, just to be tormented with fire. 

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18 hours ago, co2017 said:

Why would the Qu'ron correct what the Holy Bible says? Are you saying God cannot protect His own word? He is not powerful enough to protect His perfect word?

Actually the Qur'an does not correct past scriptures, it confirms. The Qur'an corrects what early Christian scholars decided the Holy Bible says. Islamic scholars haven't done it any favours either. 

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19 hours ago, co2017 said:

Why would the Qu'ron correct what the Holy Bible says? Are you saying God cannot protect His own word? He is not powerful enough to protect His perfect word?

Allah knew that the Torah and Injeel would be changed. That is why He sent Islam as a way to perfect religion. The people had to be introduced to the law of Allah slowly through previous revelations. However, just like what happened to Iman Ali (AS), the people rejected the truth and decided to change religion based on their own whims and desires. 

As to why Allah would bring light and correct certain issues—He is not shy to tell mankind if they are in the wrong. How many times has Allah said that polytheism is wrong and that it is emphasized on being wrong? Why were many prophets sent to people around the world? 

Because:

1. People tend to forget

2. People are easily misguided

3. People reject the truth for various reasons.

4. Allah wants everyone to be given a chance at salvation and be protected against hell. 

5. Allah gives people multiple chances for people to correct their behavior

6. Allah is merciful

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11 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

Allah knew that the Torah and Injeel would be changed. That is why He sent Islam as a way to perfect religion. The people had to be introduced to the law of Allah slowly through previous revelations. However, just like what happened to Iman Ali (AS), the people rejected the truth and decided to change religion based on their own whims and desires. 

As to why Allah would bring light and correct certain issues—He is not shy to tell mankind if they are in the wrong. How many times has Allah said that polytheism is wrong and that it is emphasized on being wrong? Why were many prophets sent to people around the world? 

What many prophets? Which ones the last 1.400 years after Muhammed?

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27 minutes ago, andres said:

What many prophets? Which ones the last 1.400 years after Muhammed?

Prophet Mohammad (SAW) is the last prophet. This has been made clear. The Quran is the last book from Allah. 

Many prophets have been sent before Prophet Mohammad (AS), such as Lot (AS), Adam (AS), Joseph (AS), Jesus (AS), Moses (AS).

only 25 prophets have been mentioned out of over 100,000.

Edited by Islandsandmirrors

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3 hours ago, andres said:

What many prophets? Which ones the last 1.400 years after Muhammed?

Hi when Imam Mahdi (aj) reappears shows  all original holy text to people which kept by all 11 Imams before him .

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On 3/12/2018 at 3:38 PM, Islandsandmirrors said:

Allah knew that the Torah and Injeel would be changed. That is why He sent Islam as a way to perfect religion.

I'm 100% behind you on your post, except the first two statements. May be a mix of words or my interpretation, but as I understand it, the Injeel can't be changed. The Injeel was the first and last revelation given to every Prophet. This being the case, Islam was the name of the religion of the Injeel since Adam. If there was a change, it was due to demographics. 

The Torah is pretty much what it was when it was written, as it was written. It was kept well guarded, as it is now. Of course all the originals are dust. There are fragments of some of the oldest copies on display, or deep in Israel's chambers. Just try to go re-write them. You wouldn't have entered the "Holy of Holies"  with the intent either. They were pretty dramatic back then. I don't believe anyone has really had opportunity to tamper with them, other than to translate.

They were only the first five books of what became "The Holy Bible", along with many other books from Prophets and kings, and the New Testament, (four main biographies and many letters on how that should impact our lives. Some of the books, either written by kings, or those who followed the king may have embellished, (description of the kingdom of Solomon), but people will continue to dig, and come up with theories for and against, just so we have something to argue about...

My conviction is; If all you get out of the Old Testament are the Ten Commandments, you have enough to move forward.

 

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On ‎3‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 3:27 AM, co2017 said:

Why would the Qu'ron correct what the Holy Bible says? Are you saying God cannot protect His own word? He is not powerful enough to protect His perfect word?

Aren't you yourself saying that God had materialistic human desires of begetting a son, so that he ended up with one?

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On 3/11/2018 at 9:18 PM, co2017 said:

Jesus said I and my Father are one. He also said He could do nothing unless His Father sent Him to do it.

Quotes from your changed bible is not reliable.

contents within your gospels can not be verified. It’s written by unknown writers.

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On 3/11/2018 at 9:27 PM, co2017 said:

Why would the Qu'ron correct what the Holy Bible says? Are you saying God cannot protect His own word? He is not powerful enough to protect His perfect word?

Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى put in the Bible a promise (a test). A promise to those who try to tamper His words in the Bible that they would face hell fire:

Revelation 22:18-19 King James Version (KJV)

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

jews and Christians failed the test of god, proof of failure: original words of their prophets does not exist.

 

This time, god promised the protection by himself:

Quran 15:9

We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).

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On 4/7/2018 at 6:29 PM, Arminmo said:

jews and Christians failed the test of god, proof of failure: original words of their prophets does not exist.

Rather cynical aren't we? What proof have you that Jews and Christians failed. Did somebody you know go to hell cuz of it and come back to tell you?

In one instance you are saying it's all corrupt, then you're saying God put a test at the end of the Bible that everybody so far has failed. You are preaching it like you believe it.  The problem is, your special insight into what's not corrupt feigns context and is riddled with propaganda. 

Original words of the Prophets were as oral as Muhammad's. They were the same message. The oral scriptures were handed down, memorized until they could be written and compiled. You do know that papyrus doesn't last forever right? It would be like digging up the original text of the Qu'ran. You must also know that as with the Qu'ran, the scriptures were sacred and kept secure, nobody left them out in the rain. Nobody left them open with pencil and eraser on the side. When scrolls got old they copied in groups of scholars, too many to fool. 

Twice in history the scriptures have been compiled into one version and presented as official... The two names that come to the foreground. Emperor Constantine, and  Uthman ibn Affan. The evolution of our scriptures history is not so different. It would seem unusual to deny the method God chose to preserve His scriptures the first round, yet accept the same method the second time. Jesus came because the Jews corrupted the religion, not the books. In the same way the Qu'ran states more than once it confirms past scripture. Any mention of corruption mentioned in the Qu'ran has to do with the religion, not the books. Take a closer look.

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On 12/29/2017 at 9:45 AM, co2017 said:

thank you for the answer to why people ignore truth. Yes I am a Christian. Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life no man comes to the Father but by Him.

Can I ask you - how did people pre-Jesus come to God?

There are thousands and thousands of years of history before the time of the Prophet Isa (Jesus), since the dawn of man.

If you believe that salvation is only attainable through Jesus because of the crucifixion, what happens to these other people before?

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22 minutes ago, andres said:

People also came to God before Muhammed. Same thing.

Yes, of course, but it's not the same. Because we believe everything on the earth and the heavens belongs to Allah and there are no partners to Him. Life comes through Him and it returns to Him, for judgement alone. The Prophet Muhammad (s) was sent as a messenger and reminder to mankind.

This was always the case with the Prophets, reminding and guiding mankind towards Allah.

Then all of a sudden, the Christian concept appears

'Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life no man comes to the Father but by Him'

Suddenly, one must acknowledge that Jesus saved mankind through the act of crucifixion, giving his sacrifice for salvation

So - as I asked before, what happens to the people pre-Jesus? They must be judged obviously. So now we have a divide:

 

Some can be judged by God

______________________

Some have all their sins forgiven by believing in Jesus Christ (before judgement too, which is a mainstream view in Christianity)

 

Yet the concept of God and His mercy remains in the background as He has always given us and hasn't changed

To believe you have to have this faith in Jesus to be forgiven all of a sudden, you are essentially saying that God has lost the ability to forgive and give mercy to people

Or the other Christian approach taken with 'faith over acts' that no one can outweigh their sin on scales, is again suggesting that God cannot forgive people on His own accord.

To do so is to place human misunderstandings of limitations onto Allah. In the Quran consistently it's written Allah is most gracious, most merciful, oft forgiving.

 

Edited by TheGreenWanderer

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On 12/23/2017 at 9:21 AM, co2017 said:

?why is truth ignored?

Salam

God is the Truth, Eternal, Everlivihng,

If you say something other than God is truth you are saying you can imagine infinity. But as we are finite being we cant imagine infinity, Everliving God. Therefore Jeesus, Son of Mary (AS) never said I am truth, since his Lord is Truth and he was with the Truth, but not the truth. If you say alphabets are truth, you can for sentence like "This sentence is false", or "This sentence is unprovable." Gurt Gödel prooved that anything that can self reference itself  can not be ultimate truth meaning, and Jesus, son of mary (AS) can not  be truth sin.ce he is only finite humanbeing.

My Question is: Muhammed is the last messenger, and Allah is our Lord. What do you say tho this?

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59 minutes ago, TheGreenWanderer said:

So - as I asked before, what happens to the people pre-Jesus? They must be judged obviously. 

The message of salvation throu Jesus is for the generations contemporary with him and coming thereafter. Before Christianity there were other religions with other rules. 

Same thing with Islam. Before Muhammed, Arabs were all pagan, worshipping lots of Gods (360 or so), except for some small Jewish and Christian groups. Certainly God knows how to deal with pagans. And I am sure many of them qualifies for Paradise.  Polytheist still exist, and many never heard about our God

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20 hours ago, TheGreenWanderer said:

Yes, of course, but it's not the same. Because we believe everything on the earth and the heavens belongs to Allah and there are no partners to Him. Life comes through Him and it returns to Him, for judgement alone. The Prophet Muhammad (s) was sent as a messenger and reminder to mankind.

This was always the case with the Prophets, reminding and guiding mankind towards Allah.

Then all of a sudden, the Christian concept appears

'Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life no man comes to the Father but by Him'

Suddenly, one must acknowledge that Jesus saved mankind through the act of crucifixion, giving his sacrifice for salvation

So - as I asked before, what happens to the people pre-Jesus? They must be judged obviously. So now we have a divide:

 

Some can be judged by God

______________________

Some have all their sins forgiven by believing in Jesus Christ (before judgement too, which is a mainstream view in Christianity)

 

Yet the concept of God and His mercy remains in the background as He has always given us and hasn't changed

To believe you have to have this faith in Jesus to be forgiven all of a sudden, you are essentially saying that God has lost the ability to forgive and give mercy to people

Or the other Christian approach taken with 'faith over acts' that no one can outweigh their sin on scales, is again suggesting that God cannot forgive people on His own accord.

To do so is to place human misunderstandings of limitations onto Allah. In the Quran consistently it's written Allah is most gracious, most merciful, oft forgiving.

 

It's unfortunate that's all you were taught about Christians. 

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19 hours ago, andres said:

The message of salvation throu Jesus is for the generations contemporary with him and coming thereafter. Before Christianity there were other religions with other rules. 

Same thing with Islam. Before Muhammed, Arabs were all pagan, worshipping lots of Gods (360 or so), except for some small Jewish and Christian groups. Certainly God knows how to deal with pagans. And I am sure many of them qualifies for Paradise.  Polytheist still exist, and many never heard about our God

Salvation has been there before and without the need of Jesus (in context with Christianity's understanding) - why do you think, despite all the Prophets drawing towards monotheism and messages given, that all of a sudden one has to believe that salvation can only be attained through faith in Jesus through the concept of sacrifice for blood for salvation through crucifixion?

And to Allah belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And ever is Allah , of all things, encompassing. (4:126)

Think - if everything in the earth and heavens belongs to Allah, comes from Him and returns to Him for judgement, why would one of His subjects need to sacrifice himself for forgiveness of mankind, when Allah has already been giving and continuing to offer guidance, mercy and forgiveness? Are you implying He can no longer do this?

Allah has sent many messengers to mankind to guide them on the straight way, through His guidance then one can follow what is right, ahead of the day of judgement.

Don't you think and consider praying to a prophet instead of God is illogical? Because either you pray to God, or you pray to Jesus (in this case you have joined partners to God - don't you view this as a contradiction to the commandments given to Moses?):

“You shall have no other gods before[a] me.

“You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments. (Exodus 20:3-4)

 

"The same religion He has established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah - the which We have sent by inspiration to thee - and that which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: Namely, that you should remain steadfast in religion, and make no divisions therein: to those who worship other things than Allah, hard is the (way) to which you call them. Allah chooses to Himself those whom He pleases, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him). (42:13)

Say: "We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them, and to Allah do we bow our will (in Islam)." (3:84)

The Messenger has believed in what was revealed to him from his Lord, and [so have] the believers. All of them have believed in Allah and His angels and His books and His messengers, [saying], "We make no distinction between any of His messengers." And they say, "We hear and we obey. [We seek] Your forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the [final] destination." (2:285)

 

 

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2 hours ago, TheGreenWanderer said:

Think - if everything in the earth and heavens belongs to Allah, comes from Him and returns to Him for judgement, why would one of His subjects need to sacrifice himself for forgiveness of mankind, when Allah has already been giving and continuing to offer guidance, mercy and forgiveness? Are you implying He can no longer do this?

Why did God need to sacrifice Jesus? Could he not have acted differently? I have many times asked myself these questions. I am certain God could have acted differently, but now that he chosed to sacrifice Jesus, I believe this was because animal sacrifices in the temple was a part of Jewish tradition. Before the temple Israelites sacrficed animals on elevated terrains.

 

2 hours ago, TheGreenWanderer said:

"The same religion He has established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah - the which We have sent by inspiration to thee - and that which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: Namely, that you should remain steadfast in religion, and make no divisions therein: to those who worship other things than Allah, hard is the (way) to which you call them. Allah chooses to Himself those whom He pleases, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him). (42:13)

That  all Jewish prophets preached the same religion is simply not true. They were all different, Judaism in 500.BC, 100BC and 100AD were all different.  Muhammeds teaching is not similar to any other Prophet.   

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On 4/10/2018 at 2:01 AM, Son of Placid said:

Original words of the Prophets were as oral as Muhammad's.

@Son of PlacidNo ! You are wrong about that!  Here , read history:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Quran

“After Muhammad would receive revelations he would later recite it to his companions, who also memorized it or wrote it down!!!.” (See the website )

the only holy book that has untouched words of their prophet is Quran , not the 2 other religions.

it was a while ago that I was having a discussion with some people ( @Hameedeh ) that @Son of Placid still after 12 years of being member of this site, doesn’t know much about Islam and Quran !  And thank god today you proved my point by this:

On 4/10/2018 at 2:01 AM, Son of Placid said:

Jesus came because the Jews corrupted the religion, not the books.

Seriously?!! After 12 years you didn’t know that Torah is corrupted??!! Here:

Quran 6:91

“And they did not appraise Allah with true appraisal when they said, "Allah did not reveal to a human being anything." Say, "Who revealed the Scripture that Moses brought as light and guidance to the people? You [Jews] make it into pages, disclosing [some of] it and concealing much. And you were taught that which you knew not - neither you nor your fathers." Say, "Allah [revealed it]." Then leave them in their [empty] discourse, amusing themselves.”

Words: making into pages , and concealing much!

Edited by Arminmo

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On 12/29/2017 at 9:45 AM, co2017 said:

thank you for the answer to why people ignore truth. Yes I am a Christian. Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life no man comes to the Father but by Him.

In the spirit of looking for truth do you believe that the Old Testament and the New Testament must contradict each other or that they can and it's fine?

When God Says isaiah to make prayers only to myself and me alone and to no one else... or 42:1, 42:5 where Jesus is said to be a servant of God. and God is alone ?

"But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." This verse, Matthew 15:9,

If you want to talk about truth lets discuss it.  You most assuredly know truth does not lie in  contradictions.

I agree with you  and believe the truth came from Jesus Christ AS, but it isn't what through the new testament of books written by allegedly by his companions/ disciples.

Jesus as a Jew believing in Torah and law of Jews did not suddenly change how God is believed and worshipped. 

“Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.” (Isaiah 43:10).

The most consistency can be observed if Jesus AS is but a human with miracles.  Which I think means towards a more sensible truth.

 

Malachi 3:6 King James Version (KJV)

For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

 

Even in the king James Bible there are winds of consistency to Jesus not being God.

I see the new testament as hadith of Jesus AS that was corrupted no different than Muhammad's hadith AS that was corrputed.

 

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1. Jesus is God.

2. God, by definition, is eternal and ever existing.

3. But Jesus is the Begotten Son of God, and hence non-existent before he was begotten, and hence non-eternal.

4. But Jesus is still God.

Is it just my feeble intellect, or are others also having similar doubts?

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12 minutes ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

1. Jesus is God.

2. God, by definition, is eternal and ever existing.

3. But Jesus is the Begotten Son of God, and hence non-existent before he was begotten, and hence non-eternal.

4. But Jesus is still God.

Is it just my feeble intellect, or are others also having similar doubts?

That's the way the trinitarians read it. Not what's written, but what they read. The real argument is in the corruption of the religion.

Muslims continually assume they believe it cuz their bible says so.  

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1 minute ago, Son of Placid said:

That's the way the trinitarians read it. Not what's written, but what they read. The real argument is in the corruption of the religion.

Muslims continually assume they believe it cuz their bible says so.  

Well, take it up with them. The OP seems to be one.

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4 hours ago, Arminmo said:

@Son of PlacidNo ! You are wrong about that!  Here , read history:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Quran

“After Muhammad would receive revelations he would later recite it to his companions

Do you see what you just wrote? Was it recited orally by chance?

5 hours ago, Arminmo said:

Words: making into pages , and concealing much!

You seriously still think God was not capable to preserve His word. Which Jews? Made what into pages? Did Moses accept it into his collection, did Abraham? Which of these Prophets who guarded the scriptures allowed corruption? Who even says they were writing their own bible? Who said it was ever accepted. You automatically assume...

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