Jesus Christ said I am the Truth. Why is truth ignored?

[co2017]

why is truth ignored?

[Hameedeh]

5 hours ago, co2017 said:

why is truth ignored?

Hello. Welcome to ShiaChat. I think the C in your username stands for Christian.  

[PureExistence1]

Salaam, i think in some circumstances it is ignored because these days, many people have lost the ability to think deeply and objectively about things. Also, i think people become too attached to their own opinions and beliefs and if "truth" is presented to them and it goes against their beliefs, they will ignore and or deny it as a way of preserving themselves. It can be extremelly hard for some people to change their deeply held beliefs. Ignoring truth is easier for them.

W/s

[Laayla]

Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum 

People can't handle the truth.  Look at Trump and Hillary, they twist & turn and lie, lie, lie.  For them it is easier to lie than speak the truth.

MSM is also notorious in deceiving the public.

I just saw your tag.  We are shias, Rasoul Allah said 3liyyoun m3 al haq wal haq m3 3lee.

Ali is with truth and the truth is with 3li.

Do you know who is Imam Ali?

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah 

Edited December 25, 2017 by Laayla

[co2017]

thank you for the answer to why people ignore truth. Yes I am a Christian. Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life no man comes to the Father but by Him.

[ShiaChat Mod]

4 hours ago, co2017 said:

Yes I am a Christian.

This topic is moved to Christianity/Judaism Dialogue. 

[Laayla]

Bismehe Ta3ala,

@co2017

We have christians on this site @andres @LeftCoastMom @Christianlady

We also have many converts who are former Christians.  @notme @Hameedeh @zainabamy 

We welcome people from any religion to come and learn and understand who is Prophet Mohammad and his family.

We do not like oppression.  We beleive in Day of judgement.  We despise tryants.  We stand with truth.  

What about you?  How do you see the birthplace of Jesus under occupation?  

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah 

[Arminmo]

On 12/23/2017 at 8:21 AM, co2017 said:

why is truth ignored?

The popular perception that this verse claims that Jesus requires our worship in order for us to receive salvation is not the intended meaning of this verse. However, in order for us to recognize this fact it is necessary to study it's context.

If we were to back up a little and read from the beginning of this chapter, we would find that just before Jesus spoke these words, he said; 

"In my Father's house are many mansions (dwelling places); if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a mansion (a dwelling place) for you." 

John 14:2

The above statement is quite clear. It is in exact conformance to the teachings of the Qur'an. In the Qur'an we are told how God sent messengers to all tribes and nations. We are told that the basic message which was given to each of these tribes was the same: "Worship God alone and worship none else." Some of the secondary details of this worship might differ from one tribe or nation to the next according to God's infinite wisdom and his knowledge of those people. It was made very clear to each prophet that he was not to preach to anyone but his own people. It was further made clear to this messenger's people that if they were to obey him that they would receive the reward of God. God would not hold them accountable for what any other tribe or nation did or did not do. This would continue until God's last messenger, prophet Muhammad (pbuh) would be sent to all mankind as the seal of the prophets.

This is exactly what Jesus is saying here. He said that in God's mansion there are "many" rooms. Jesus was sent to guide to only one of them. The countless other rooms were reserved for other tribes and nations if they would obey their messengers. However, Jesus was telling his followers that they need not worry themselves about the other rooms. Anyone from among his people who wished to enter into the room which was reserved for them could only do so if they followed Jesus and obeyed his command. So Jesus confirmed that he was going to prepare "a" mansion and not "all" the mansions in "my Father's house".

Further, the verse clearly states that Jesus was the "WAY" to a mansion. He did not say that he is the "DESTINATION" which would be the case if he were God. What else would we expect a prophet of God to say except "I am the 'way' to God's mercy"? That is his job. That is what a prophet does. It is why God chose him in the first place; in order to guide to the mercy of God. This is indeed confirmed in John 10:9 where Jesus tells us that he is "the door" to "the pasture." In other words, he is the "prophet" who guides his people to "heaven" (see also Jn. 12:44). Once again, this is the message of Islam. 

Finally, remember 

"Not every one that says to me(Jesus); 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of my Father, who is in heaven." 

Matthew.7:21

 

Edited December 30, 2017 by Arminmo

[yusur317]

45 minutes ago, Arminmo said:

Where did prophet jesus say : “ I am the truth “ ?

NEW TESTAMENT John 13:14

Jesus the Way to the Father 

Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?" 

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No-one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." 

Philip said, "Lord show us the Father and that will be enough for us." 

Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in me? The words i say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing the work. Believe me when i say that i am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe in the evidence of the miracles themselves. I tell you the truth; anyone who has faith in me will do what i have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and i will do it." 

... 

Pretty much in their books. It's good to learn about other faiths. A quick googling will take you to websites with online copies and other verses too. Before you ask, I am a muslim shia.

In our books, it's different ofc. We claim the original injeel has been corrupted and changed (I believe this to be true). The books christians hold today are inspired by God rather than by God Himself.

 

Edit: realised you changed your answer. You cherry picked verses though... That's unfair

Edited December 30, 2017 by yusur317

[Arminmo]

21 minutes ago, yusur317 said:

Edit: realised you changed your answer.

Yeah it needed editation,  you can do the same.

Edited December 30, 2017 by Arminmo

[ali_fatheroforphans]

On 29/12/2017 at 10:45 PM, co2017 said:

thank you for the answer to why people ignore truth. Yes I am a Christian. Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life no man comes to the Father but by Him.

Muslims follow and love Prophet Jesus (as) too.

The only difference is that we don't take Jesus Christ as the literal son of God. 

The reason for this is that it goes against the intellect of any human being. 

Edited December 31, 2017 by ali_fatheroforphans

[Wholehearted Shi'a]

God is unique and their is only one who is gracious and merciful.  Do we not all remember the first commandment of the prophet Moses? "Thou shalt have no other gods but Me" As a former Christian  it was easy for me to convert to Islam because as @ali_fatheroforphans has said the Muslims love and follow Jesus. Reading the Quran and early Roman imperial manipulation of Christianity was one of the many driving forces that helped me find truth in a new religion (Shi’a Islam) and made it very clear to me why Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى gave us another prophet and the twelve Imams to guide us. 

I certainly haven’t ignored the truth...I needed to discover it first before i could follow it. 

Edited December 31, 2017 by Wholehearted Shi'a

[co2017]

 Thank you all for your interesting comments! Thank God that we have the Holy Bible so that we can read and know the truth. Jesus Christ is the only begotten son of the Father(God), His desire is that all men and women may come to Him and find forgiveness and have a relationship with Him. Christianity is a  deep relationship and an adoption into the family of God.

[Arminmo]

28 minutes ago, co2017 said:

. Jesus Christ is the only begotten son of the Father(God)

By your own bible, you are lying !!!

Psalm 2:7 King James Bible "....Jehovah had said onto me (David), thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee."  Here in this verse we see that God not only called David his "Son", but also had made him his begotten Son  !!! 

You said your holy bible tells the truth??!!

a book that’s been written by multitude of unknown writers(centuries or decades later) these kinds of truth can come out of it !! Bible is unreliable.

 

Edited January 1, 2018 by Arminmo

[ali_fatheroforphans]

43 minutes ago, co2017 said:

Thank God that we have the Holy Bible so that we can read and know the truth. Jesus Christ is the only begotten son of the Father(God), 

For someone to say that "my book" is the only book of truth shows someone's narow mindedness. It's not like you're giving evidence or anything - rather you're just preaching.

[co2017]

"My" book is the Holy scripture. It is evidence. Reading it is proof. It is the living word of God.

[co2017]

It is impossible for God to lie. He speaks to us through His Word. The Holy Bible is written by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, the spirit of the living God. Read the scripture and seek the truth. Jesus Christ desires to know you. He loves. He is truth. He has grace and forgiveness.

[Arminmo]

54 minutes ago, co2017 said:

The Holy Bible is written by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit,

Have you ever read history of your gospels ???

wikipedia, gospel of Mark,... all of them had been written by unknown writers!!  how can you prove “INSPIRation of UNKnown Writers” ???

Edited January 1, 2018 by Arminmo

[Arminmo]

1 hour ago, co2017 said:

It is impossible for God to lie.

About god yes, but your book was written by Anonymous humans! , unverifiable!

[Arminmo]

On 12/31/2017 at 9:08 PM, Arminmo said:

It is impossible for God to lie

So by your logic, god is not lying in bible and he has at least 2 begotten sons !

[Wholehearted Shi'a]

@co2017 So are you going to provide us with a proper constructive argument that support your claims of “truth” or are you going to keep preaching? and I highly doubt you’ve read any of our comments because they contradict (with evidence) the argument you continue to blindly preach about. I’m starting to think you’re trolling. Oh and Jesus Christ does know about me and my Muslim brothers and sisters. Jesus Christ knew me as a Christian when for far too long at times I put him above Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى now he knows me as a person of his religion who submits to only ONE god. 

Edited January 1, 2018 by Wholehearted Shi'a

[hasanhh]

On 12/30/2017 at 2:36 PM, kirtc said:

"Father" is a bad translation of the word "rabb" which doesnt have a direct translation in english.. 

God is way above having sons or wives.. 

@Yaaqov Ben Yisrael should comment/answer this.

[Ashvazdanghe]

Strange and insanely intrusive story for Christianity / The role of St. Paul in the diversion of Christianity

Name Paul to Islamic tradition states and in some traditions, he as Gmrahknndە Christians, and with people like Cain, Nimrod, Pharaoh and Samaritan is remembered in part from the depths of Hell called Saqar discomfort will be, and in some other traditions of demons mislead people have learned that after the prophets and the evil he read that after Jesus led people astray. [84]

Also in the books of Sunni hadiths which are tyrants and arrogant on the Day of Judgment, in a prison of hell known as Paul cast the worst place is hell. [85] scholars of Hadith Sunni like Tirmidhi this Hadith Hassan and properly considered.

 Imam Musa ibn Jafar(AS) in the long version, introduced in hell that land is allocated to the heretics and misguided. In this land, the past five nations, including Paul, respectively. [86]

Imam Sadiq (as) in the hadith said: messengers of God in his own time and after that they were devils that Annnoying them & make people astray after they were ... Paul  is as the same in the Nation of Jesus. [87]

 

[85]. Mosnad Ahmd ibn hanbal, vol 11, p 260; author Ibn Abi Shaybah, vol. 5, p. 329; Mosnad Hamidi, vol. 1, p. 508; Sunan al-Tirmidhi, vol. 4, p. 236; traditions Kobra related to pregnancy, vol 10, p 398; Altrghyb and Altrhyb, Monzary, vol. 3, p. 356; Fath Al-Bari, vol 11, p 423; Alz·hd and flakes, Ibn mobark, vol. 2, p. 52; Al Adab mofrad Baltaqyaqat literature, vol. 1, p. 287; Ibn aby hatam commentary, vol. 11, p. 58.

[86]. Majlisi, , Bihar al-Anwar, vol. 8, p. 311, Hadith (H) 77 and v 12, p. 37, H 20

[87]. Ibid., Vol. 13, p. 212, H 5.

 

[۸۵]. مسند احمد‌بن‌حنبل، ج ۱۱، ص ۲۶۰؛ مصنف ابن ابی شیبه، ج۵، ص۳۲۹؛ مسند حمیدی، ج۱، ص۵۰۸؛ سنن ترمذی، ج۴، ص۲۳۶؛ سنن کبری، نسائی، ج ۱۰، ص ص ۳۹۸؛ الترغیب و الترهیب، منذری، ج۳، ص۳۵۶؛ فتح الباری، ج۱۱، ص۴۲۳؛ الزهد و الرقائق، ابن‌مبارک، ج۲، ص۵۲؛ الادب المفرد بالتعلیقات، ج۱، ص۲۸۷؛ تفسیر ابن‌ابی‌حاتم، ج۱۱، ص۵۸.

[۸۶]. مجلسی، محمدباقر، بحارالانوار، ج۸، ص۳۱۱، ح ۷۷ و نیز: ج۱۲، ص۳۷، ح۲۰

[۸۷]. همان، ج۱۳، ص۲۱۲، ح ۵.

Of course, in this narrative Molesworth is written: "... and the owners Jesus Fmvls and Marissa ..." But given the evidence and other reports it is clear that Paul is the same meaning. 
Result

Some of the distortions that Paul did in Christianity, this was as follows:

1 Original sin; 
2 Anti-Semitism; 
3 Goddess of Jesus; 
4 Becoming the bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus; 
5 Behest Jesus propitiation sacrifice for sins; 
6  emphasis on Jesus' kingdom against kingdom on earth; 
7 Anyone who accepts Jesus magnify the chosen people to be included; 
8 Depending of salvation to believe in Jesus and not act on the laws of the Torah, and ...

Paul, a Jew, who in Christianity crept because after Judaism to the position and the desired received no Christian has the potential to see, because religion was young and easily could have announced to join it, a very good position were awarded for themselves.

Log in and make major changes and indeed Christianity is the heresy of him. Changes such as the removal of monotheism, and taking provisions and the removal of which nothing remains except the name of Christianity and adding beliefs as the Trinity, original sin, Fda’ and completely new religion was created.
 

References:

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tvshia.com%2Ffa%2Fcontent%2F50273&edit-text=

http://www.tvshia.com/fa/content/50273

[Son of Placid]

Sorry I took so long to see this. 

imo, I see ahadith as an agenda to push a new religion. You can't have a new religion if the old one still works. This is what they came up with...

On 1/1/2018 at 12:53 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

Some of the distortions that Paul did in Christianity, this was as follows:

1 Original sin; 
2 Anti-Semitism; 
3 Goddess of Jesus; 
4 Becoming the bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus; 
5 Behest Jesus propitiation sacrifice for sins; 
6  emphasis on Jesus' kingdom against kingdom on earth; 
7 Anyone who accepts Jesus magnify the chosen people to be included; 
8 Depending of salvation to believe in Jesus and not act on the laws of the Torah, and ...

1 "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"  <-- this is the basis for the argument. I have yet to find a Muslim who would disagree with the outright statement. The concept of "born into sin" goes back to how human you believe Adam and Eve were before they sinned and how human they were after. 

2 Besides being a Jew, I don't see Paul saying anything worse than Jesus did. Paul's main congregation were Gentiles. The big whoopla was the Jews not liking the Gentiles. 

3 No idea

4 Based on the Last Supper, tradition started before Paul.

5 Do you not believe that the life and death of Imam Ali was a sacrifice for the redemption of his people? Do you not believe that by following his example you would also be acceptable by God? If his example included prayer for forgiveness of sins and a promise to adhere closer to the morals of the teacher, where's the actual problem? I know Christian religions have taken the concept farther, and farther, but bottom line...Paul believed Jesus was the way to salvation. The difference I see is in accepting that one's sins were actually forgiven. There is a confidence taught by Paul that Muslims won't go near. 

6 Paul believed Jesus would be the center of God's Heaven. No kingdom of Jesus, that's made up. Muslims believe it revolves around Muhammad, (the best Prophet). Centuries before Muhammad, what ya gonna do?

7 Not sure I grasp the meaning. Paul was big on teaching people to become children of God, in the same manner he taught Jesus to be the son of God. This is much more spiritual than physical...obviously. He never taught anybody to be elitists. Am I even close?

8 Which laws in the Torah? 

and...

Somebody still has to show me where Paul taught trinity. Paul started many letters with "Grace and peace from God our Father, and, Our Lord Christ Jesus". If/when you find a translation that removed the "and" (NIV) consider the translation as heretical. The "and" doesn't even note a duality. Trinity wan't even a notion.

Couple of questions left, but I hope it helps. 

[Ashvazdanghe]

5.It is reported that Imam 'Ali ('a) said, “The Messenger of Allah called me and said, 'O 'Ali! Verily, there is a similarity between you and Jesus the son of Mary ('a). The Christians love him so much that they put him in a position that was not for him; and the Jews hate him so much that they even slandered his mother.' And 'Ali ('a) said, 'Two [groups of] men will be ruined because of me, he who goes to extremes in love of me for what I do not have and he who hates me with a hatred that makes him slander me.”1

• Bihar al-Anwar, vol. 35, pp. 318-319, no. 14

https://www.al-islam.org/al-tawhid/general-al-tawhid/gospel-shia-ali-muhammad-legenhausen/gospel-shiah-ali

On 2/27/2018 at 1:44 PM, Son of Placid said:

Couple of questions left, but I hope it helps. 

[Soldiers and Saffron]

I have been wondering something, if I love Jesus(as) but I do not believe him to be God, will I still get to heaven according to Christianity?

[Son of Placid]

5 hours ago, IbnSina said:

I have been wondering something, if I love Jesus(as) but I do not believe him to be God, will I still get to heaven according to Christianity?

Not a chance Brother. If you don't believe in a trinity you're going to the same hell I am, lol.

[Soldiers and Saffron]

On 2/28/2018 at 1:21 PM, Son of Placid said:

Not a chance Brother. If you don't believe in a trinity you're going to the same hell I am, lol.

Wow, I did not know that, that not believing in trinity, even as a Christian, would send you to hell. Thats news to me.

So a theoretical question, what if you believe in trinity but kill 100 innocent people during your life time but go to a priest and confess this sin, will you go to heaven as compared to a Christian who did not believe in trinity but saved 100 innocent people?

[Son of Placid]

On 3/1/2018 at 3:41 AM, IbnSina said:

Wow, I did not know that, that not believing in trinity, even as a Christian, would send you to hell. Thats news to me.

So a theoretical question, what if you believe in trinity but kill 100 innocent people during your life time but go to a priest and confess this sin, will you go to heaven as compared to a Christian who did not believe in trinity but saved 100 innocent people?

I grew up Baptist. Like most kids I didn't listen much but we had the basics. Life changed at the age of 13 when we moved from small town to big city, two blocks from a Baptist church. They had a young people study group, which, of course, I had to join. It was rather in depth and came with homework. 

A couple years in, the subject of alcohol came up in the church. My Father was nobody in the church, but when he took opportunity to say his piece, they didn't like him anymore. Two deacons left the church. They urged my Father to do so also. I stayed because we had a good young peoples group, I was a leader in the Christian Service Brigade, (Christian boy scouts), busy with the church almost every night.

At around 16 I started squinting at the difference between scripture and the message we were supposed to derive from it. Questions were often deflected by "A deeper meaning that we'll get into later", which never happened ... at 18 I had four elders in my house, and a one on one with a Lieutenant Colonel of the Canadian Forces, military, (known for interrogation), on my back because others were asking my questions.  I had to be a member or lose the brigade, (local rule not CSB rule), which included adapting their beliefs, then was told I was going to the wrong church. I agreed. The church was "saddened" I had turned against them.

My Father was in his church, (of 30 some years) when the subject "Jesus is God" (in your face), came up. My Father told him it's not what the Bible says. The teacher yelled out, "If you don't believe Jesus is God you are going to hell!" They stripped him of his membership and he is no longer allowed to participate in the services or studies. He's still allowed to attend, just can't say anything. No hostilities, other than a few who used to talk to him don't any more. 

That is the main stream belief. If you don't believe it, you will cause trouble. 

Here's the problem as I see it.
If you are building a religion you need rules to be successful. Basic method, get them to agree to a belief in the god you are creating. Use the metaphor of nice peaceful sheep smothered with love often.  Insist there is no other way, as per unique holy instruction. Instill both sadness and disgust in the sheep for those who are outside the fence. Make the sheep prove they belong by providing hoops and ladders then taking their wool. Form doctrines and discipline to keep them in order, back it up with stories from a pedestal everybody thinks is awesome.     I just covered 1600 years of Christianity. Now the trend is to appease the sheep for the wool. 

To answer your theoretical question.

Mainstream Catholic belief, yes, but they have a much nicer way of presenting it. It includes penance and money in the box, but hey, sins all gone. You can go monthly, weekly, daily...       I really don't know much about them.

Protestants are on their own when it comes to repentance but the same applies. Personally, I believe the above concept is somewhat true but not near that simple and it's not what the Bible says. You can't just say "sorry". Everybody in Canada says sorry. For Protestants, Jesus is the mediator. (not that it's confusing...trinity speaking...).

Honestly, sins are between you and God. There's no use looking for a diversion to forgive you for a sin committed against God. You either go to the highest court or you die wondering. If you sin against a man, you go to that man. If you sin against God, you go to God. You either do it right or don't bother. I believe God will be more merciful with those who were honest about their sin habits than those hypocrites who pretended they were absolved. I said merciful, not necessarily forgiving. 

[Soldiers and Saffron]

On 3/1/2018 at 12:38 PM, Son of Placid said:

I grew up Baptist. Like most kids I didn't listen much but we had the basics. Life changed at the age of 13 when we moved from small town to big city, two blocks from a Baptist church. They had a young people study group, which, of course, I had to join. It was rather in depth and came with homework. 

A couple years in, the subject of alcohol came up in the church. My Father was nobody in the church, but when he took opportunity to say his piece, they didn't like him anymore. Two deacons left the church. They urged my Father to do so also. I stayed because we had a good young peoples group, I was a leader in the Christian Service Brigade, (Christian boy scouts), busy with the church almost every night.

At around 16 I started squinting at the difference between scripture and the message we were supposed to derive from it. Questions were often deflected by "A deeper meaning that we'll get into later", which never happened ... at 18 I had four elders in my house, and a one on one with a Lieutenant Colonel of the Canadian Forces, military, (known for interrogation), on my back because others were asking my questions.  I had to be a member or lose the brigade, (local rule not CSB rule), which included adapting their beliefs, then was told I was going to the wrong church. I agreed. The church was "saddened" I had turned against them.

My Father was in his church, (of 30 some years) when the subject "Jesus is God" (in your face), came up. My Father told him it's not what the Bible says. The teacher yelled out, "If you don't believe Jesus is God you are going to hell!" They stripped him of his membership and he is no longer allowed to participate in the services or studies. He's still allowed to attend, just can't say anything. No hostilities, other than a few who used to talk to him don't any more. 

That is the main stream belief. If you don't believe it, you will cause trouble. 

Here's the problem as I see it.
If you are building a religion you need rules to be successful. Basic method, get them to agree to a belief in the god you are creating. Use the metaphor of nice peaceful sheep smothered with love often.  Insist there is no other way, as per unique holy instruction. Instill both sadness and disgust in the sheep for those who are outside the fence. Make the sheep prove they belong by providing hoops and ladders then taking their wool. Form doctrines and discipline to keep them in order, back it up with stories from a pedestal everybody thinks is awesome.     I just covered 1600 years of Christianity. Now the trend is to appease the sheep for the wool. 

To answer your theoretical question.

Mainstream Catholic belief, yes, but they have a much nicer way of presenting it. It includes penance and money in the box, but hey, sins all gone. You can go monthly, weekly, daily...       I really don't know much about them.

Protestants are on their own when it comes to repentance but the same applies. Personally, I believe the above concept is somewhat true but not near that simple and it's not what the Bible says. You can't just say "sorry". Everybody in Canada says sorry. For Protestants, Jesus is the mediator. (not that it's confusing...trinity speaking...).

Honestly, sins are between you and God. There's no use looking for a diversion to forgive you for a sin committed against God. You either go to the highest court or you die wondering. If you sin against a man, you go to that man. If you sin against God, you go to God. You either do it right or don't bother. I believe God will be more merciful with those who were honest about their sin habits than those hypocrites who pretended they were absolved. I said merciful, not necessarily forgiving. 

Thank you for sharing this story, it gave me a nice insight into the matter.

But what would you say defines you as a christian? Given the insight quoted and your view on it.

[Son of Placid]

On 3/2/2018 at 5:50 AM, IbnSina said:

Thank you for sharing this story, it gave me a nice insight into the matter.

But what would you say defines you as a christian? Given the insight quoted and your view on it.

The NT narrates the life of Jesus, and the message He came to give. There are instances where people came and worshiped Him, and He stood them up and questioned them as to why. There are others where the reaction is not recorded, but when it is..."Why do you call me good? There is only one good and that is my Father, who is in Heaven"  The true message of Jesus is not changed because somebody decided He should be God with God and God. 

Not sure if I can explain it, but there is a spiritual relationship between God and man that was passed on to Christians via the Holy Spirit known in English as the Comforter. Not Jesus, not the Holy Spirit, and certainly not Muhammad. I'm actually a little disappointed that Islam does not recognize this. Prophets were led by God, they had real conversations, they had insight whether they understood it or not. When Jesus left earth, he said he would send a comforter and He did. This is what led the Prophets, the difference is, it was now available to the common man.

I have heard a few Muslims tell me of times they felt "led" to do something they didn't really understand, and how only divine intervention could have predicted the outcome, but very few and far between, as with real Christians, I should add. These experiences never leave you and you can't ignore them. Whatever religion you may be in, you will stay...because the belief system you were taught no longer matters. The action of God actually showing you He cares in a way you cannot ignore can leave you on the floor crying for days. You know what's right and you learn what's wrong. The name "Comforter" isn't the best translation because it isn't all that comforting. I haven't found an Islamic explanation for it. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Christian churches often preach of such an awakening but few believe it when they hear of it. 

Overwhelming evidence Jesus died on a cross, even from secular authors. The Qu'ran says the Jews did not kill Jesus, points to believing such as conjecture. I know Islam has spun that into a dividing point, but how can scripture past and present contradict? I believe it's interpretation. The Qu'ran also goes on to say there were those who knew the truth, which would include the disciples who went on to preach a risen saviour. I am finding that the Qu'ran does not teach a new religion, it debunks faulty Christian doctrines and fills in blanks, yet does not always elaborate. There's no use explaining what's unfathomable, but this leaves a gap for imagination and that's what divides us. Religions need that division to survive.

I don't have one verse that backs up my understanding because it runs from the beginning to the end of the NT. The Revelation of John puts a few more things together. The death and resurrection of Jesus carries a lot more weight than what the Gospels show, (from their human perspective). Not sure there's a lot of use going into detail. It's foreign to most Christians let alone Muslims. 

What I'm seeing is that Jesus died for all. Muslims don't have to be Christian to be saved anymore than Gentiles had to become Jews before being saved. These are all man made god laws meant to keep God to themselves. On judgement day these scholars of division will be judged accordingly. 

[Soldiers and Saffron]

On 3/3/2018 at 6:47 PM, Son of Placid said:

The NT narrates the life of Jesus, and the mess.....

Hmm, but the holy spirit is recognized within Islam, its mentioned in the holy Quran as well, such in surah Al-Qadr. Have you researched this concept within Islam in dept?

Also have you heard of the concept of Fitrah in islam? It is like a divinely inspired nature that is unique to human beings, an inner compass, a God given guide but it requires us to listen to it.

Here is a very interesting lecture series on this concept within Islam:

As far as every non muslim going to hell, this might be new and interesting information for you:

Yes, the holy Qur'an came to correct that which has been altered within the Bible and the Christian faith, according to the holy Qur'an the Christans went astray after prophet Jesus(as) and his message got distorted, they started to say that he was God and worshiped him, while he was worshiping his creator. 

Likewise the holy Qur'an says that Christianity came to correct that which has been altered with in the Torah and the Jewish faith, they angered God by their conscious altering of their faith and practices, such as taking interest from loans, etc.

This is what surah Al-Fatihah, the first surah of the holy Qur'an refers to when it is talking about the straight path, not the path of those who have gone astray(Christianity) nor the path of those who have angered you(Judaism).

Your understanding of who God is, is more aligned with the concept of God within Islam and who is God in islam according to Islam? Do you know?

Imam Ali(as) describes who Allahسُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى is:

[Sisterfatima1]

Why is it ignored when Jesus said many times in the bible I am not god 

[Hameedeh]

23 minutes ago, Sisterfatima1 said:

Why is it ignored when Jesus said many times in the bible I am not god 

Can you post the verses, please?

[Hameedeh]

On 2/28/2018 at 1:21 PM, Son of Placid said:

Not a chance Brother. If you don't believe in a trinity you're going to the same hell I am, lol.

It seems that the 'fire and brimstone' is the emphasis of all the Baptist churches. The protestant church (Church of Christ/Church of God) that I attended before I became a Muslim had an emphasis on 'Be baptized or you won't go to Heaven."