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In the Name of God بسم الله
Ron_Burgundy

Issues with Islam

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3 minutes ago, SaniyehZahra said:

So 2:282 is also dating back to the time of revelation. Now women obviously do have knowledge of these issues, so it takes me back to my first question. How is the quran still relevant

my first response would be that it is relevant. but all of it doesnt have to be relevant today. and that the main issues are still relevant. the parts about stories of different prophets and their people. the parts about the unseen. the parts about how to worship. those parts of the rulings which are independent of time. like for example, no matter how advanced we get, the sun will keep rising and setting. so the prayers have to be offered 5 times a day in their prescribed times. fasting has to be done in the month of ramadan. no matter how advanced we get. there are two things. ibaadaat(worship) and muaamlaat(interactions). how we worship will never change. but interactions MIGHT change. for example, we have advanced technology today so instead of witnesses, we can use camera footage as evidence against someone. but these kinds of things is not the purpose of the quran. the purpose is to lay down a general guide. the details can change over time. 

the verses which could potentially be called "outdated", and i would not call them outdated/irrelevant for reasons below, are very few in number. 

lets take this scenario of 2:282. what follows may not be the general understanding of others here and they may disagree with me. women should not have such knowledge. women, generally speaking(generally being the key word), should not be working. they have a much much more important task. raising children. children are the future of humanity and if they are not taught and brought up correctly, we will end up in a society which claims there are more than 60 genders. there are certain professions women SHOULD go for, such as teaching and medicine, where it would be better for the "customers" to avail the services from the same gender as themselves. i wouldnt want a female family member to go to a male gynecologist for example. there are other exceptions(important to keep this in mind) as well. but the main role of a woman is that of a mother. and that role can not be over stressed. so, instead of getting knowledge about business, a woman should be focusing on raising children in the correct manner(the whole concept of babysitters is also quite dangerous in my opinion. to leave ones children in someone else's care for hours at end is something i will never approve of. all of this has been adopted in our society from the west). once we do that, a woman, generally speaking, would not have the knowledge of business/finances. we have to look at islam in its entirety. everything supports the other.

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1 hour ago, just a muslim said:

so, instead of getting knowledge about business, a woman should be focusing on raising children in the correct manner(the whole concept of babysitters is also quite dangerous in my opinion. to leave ones children in someone else's care for hours at end is something i will never approve of. all of this has been adopted in our society from the west).

What about women who are unable to raise children? If the main role of a woman is, as you say, to be a mother, and by Allah's will that ability is gone, what is her role then? Not looking to start an argument or discussion, I'm just curious as to what your perspective is on this.

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56 minutes ago, asaravastu said:

What about women who are unable to raise children? If the main role of a woman is, as you say, to be a mother, and by Allah's will that ability is gone, what is her role then? Not looking to start an argument or discussion, I'm just curious as to what your perspective is on this.

marry a man with children, and raise them. the man may be divorced or widowed, or she may choose to be a second wife. but the former is more logical. she may also, if she is financially able to, adopt a child and raise it. 

you asked me what her role is then. her wants or likes(possibly of marrying an unmarried/single man) are not taken into consideration in my response above.

edit: also, rules are always general. the rule may not necessarily be applied to an exceptional case.

Edited by just a muslim

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12 hours ago, SaniyehZahra said:

Well it is very difficult to begin.

like i said, i do believe in a creator. But i question whether God is omnibevolent, omnipotent and omniscient, reasons which will take ages to explain

I am not really certain that the quran is the authentic word kf God. Also, i believe as many seemingly violent quotes in the quran always have a context linking bck to the time it was written, why do muslims still take EVERYTHING from the quran

similarly, i dont one hundred percent agree with islam’s justice for women, but again i admit i am an ignorant person on this

You think too much with your mind, it will never give you rest.

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3 hours ago, just a muslim said:

my first response would be that it is relevant. but all of it doesnt have to be relevant today. and that the main issues are still relevant. the parts about stories of different prophets and their people. the parts about the unseen. the parts about how to worship. those parts of the rulings which are independent of time. like for example, no matter how advanced we get, the sun will keep rising and setting. so the prayers have to be offered 5 times a day in their prescribed times. fasting has to be done in the month of ramadan. no matter how advanced we get. there are two things. ibaadaat(worship) and muaamlaat(interactions). how we worship will never change. but interactions MIGHT change. for example, we have advanced technology today so instead of witnesses, we can use camera footage as evidence against someone. but these kinds of things is not the purpose of the quran. the purpose is to lay down a general guide. the details can change over time. 

the verses which could potentially be called "outdated", and i would not call them outdated/irrelevant for reasons below, are very few in number. 

lets take this scenario of 2:282. what follows may not be the general understanding of others here and they may disagree with me. women should not have such knowledge. women, generally speaking(generally being the key word), should not be working. they have a much much more important task. raising children. children are the future of humanity and if they are not taught and brought up correctly, we will end up in a society which claims there are more than 60 genders. there are certain professions women SHOULD go for, such as teaching and medicine, where it would be better for the "customers" to avail the services from the same gender as themselves. i wouldnt want a female family member to go to a male gynecologist for example. there are other exceptions(important to keep this in mind) as well. but the main role of a woman is that of a mother. and that role can not be over stressed. so, instead of getting knowledge about business, a woman should be focusing on raising children in the correct manner(the whole concept of babysitters is also quite dangerous in my opinion. to leave ones children in someone else's care for hours at end is something i will never approve of. all of this has been adopted in our society from the west). once we do that, a woman, generally speaking, would not have the knowledge of business/finances. we have to look at islam in its entirety. everything supports the other.

If you say this, what is your view on working women? So many working women have revolutionised the world, like marie curie for example

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Someone else mentioned that of course, we need the ahlulbayt just as much as the quran. But how do we know what the ahlulbayt actually said? If i am correct, only the quran is considered authentic, so from which sources can we trust the ahlulbayt? If the ahlulbayt were given that much importance, why did they not compile a book or some form of physical proof, like the quran, so there wont be any misconceptions.

 

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Just now, SaniyehZahra said:

What else are you meant to think with :blush:

but you are right, my mind is slightly psychopathic and obsessive. 

Even if someone gives you a logical and acceptable answer to your concern, there is always someone else who can criticize it and make you doubtful. It is a never ending process.

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Just now, Dhulfikar said:

Even if someone gives you a logical and acceptable answer to your concern, there is always someone else who can criticize it and make you doubtful. It is a never ending process.

True. Accept there isn’t usually a someone else. It is my own messed up mind. But yeah, safe to say it does seem like a never ending process. 

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I am going to ask my question on hijab again:

I understand that due to the difference in the biology of male and female, we have different needs. However the thing that i do not understand is why women have tocover the hair and neck, while men do not; of course, i understand men have awrah and hijab obligation too, but why do they not have to cover their hair? Isn’t a man’s hair also taken as a sign of beauty, now a days?

to be fair, someone did say men don’t have to cover their beauty. But isn’t that slightly unfair, by telling women you must cover up your beauty just because you are a woman and certain people have an evil gaze.

edit: before anyone gets offended, i used to wear hijab too, and i also wore it at my own will, so i’m not asking this because i am mad at hijab. I do also disagree with the western feminist idea that women should be allowed to basically walk around naked. That is also not right. But then again, men should need to cover up just as much as us

Edited by SaniyehZahra

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31 minutes ago, SaniyehZahra said:

If you say this, what is your view on working women? So many working women have revolutionised the world, like marie curie for example

hmm. i would have to think about that. will get back to you on this. 

28 minutes ago, SaniyehZahra said:

I know this is also off topic, but in islam if a man wants a second wife but his first wife doesn’t want him to, is he still allowed to remarry?

bring every question/issue you have. no such thing as off topic as long as we are talking about islam.

if a woman does not want the man to have a second wife and wishes to be the only wife, she can demand that as a condition in the marriage contract. before marriage. 

10 minutes ago, SaniyehZahra said:

I am going to ask my question on hijab again:

I understand that due to the difference in the biology of male and female, we have different needs. However the thing that i do not understand is why women have tocover the hair and neck, while men do not; of course, i understand men have awrah and hijab obligation too, but why do they not have to cover their hair? Isn’t a man’s hair also taken as a sign of beauty, now a days?

to be fair, someone did say men don’t have to cover their beauty. But isn’t that slightly unfair, by telling women you must cover up your beauty just because you are a woman and certain people have an evil gaze.

edit: before anyone gets offended, i used to wear hijab too, and i also wore it at my own will, so i’m not asking this because i am mad at hijab. I do also disagree with the western feminist idea that women should be allowed to basically walk around naked. That is also not right. But then again, men should need to cover up just as much as us

1. there is no war going on in islam between men and women. i say this because we all try to help each other be better people. and in doing so, women observe hijab so as to avoid being seen by their brothers in religion. (read point 3)

2. men are more easily sexually attracted as compared to women and have relatively little control. so if a woman looks at a man, she wont feel anything, but the other way around will be a different scenario. 

3. the concept of fair and unfair would be true, if this world was it and there was no afterlife. islam teaches there is an after life. so even if this hijab thing was unfair, women would be rewarded that much more in the afterlife.

4. women are told to cover themselves. but you see, men and women are both told to lower their gaze. but men are told to do it first. so, the point that women cover up because of men, is on some levels, pointless. 

what is important to understand is that men and women are not equal. they are equal in terms of deeds and in the sight of Allah based on piety. but in terms of practical laws and this world, they are not. so to ask for the same laws for both of them is not correct. 

also, one more reason for hijab is that women tend to like dressing up, in all senses of the word, which can cause arrogance. so, hijab sort of serves as a reminder that we need to be humble and not show off and be proud of the way we look. men usually are carefree and would go out in their trousers for all they care. 

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