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In the Name of God بسم الله
SaniyehZahra

Women in Islam

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Sorry for the spam everyone. Hopefully this one will be short and sweet

......is the whole male looking after female thing. I believe this may have been needed at the time when the quran was revealed, but now, living in the 21st century can a woman not look after herself? While it is nice that islam gives this protection from a male, are women not independant enough to look after themselves? 

I also just can’t understand the whole head covering (now before i get attacked, i wore it too, with my own will). I don’t see how wearing a cloth on your head makes you modest. I also find it a bit unfair that women have to wear it while men don’t. A lot of people have said that it is because a  womans hair and neck is a sign of beauty. But now a days, couldnt we say the same for men as well? 

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3 hours ago, SaniyehZahra said:

Sorry for the spam everyone. Hopefully this one will be short and sweet

......is the whole male looking after female thing. I believe this may have been needed at the time when the quran was revealed, but now, living in the 21st century can a woman not look after herself? While it is nice that islam gives this protection from a male, are women not independant enough to look after themselves? 

I also just can’t understand the whole head covering (now before i get attacked, i wore it too, with my own will). I don’t see how wearing a cloth on your head makes you modest. I also find it a bit unfair that women have to wear it while men don’t. A lot of people have said that it is because a  womans hair and neck is a sign of beauty. But now a days, couldnt we say the same for men as well?

Men are not required to cover or hide away their "beauty", but women are.

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22 hours ago, Sumerian said:

Men are not required to cover or hide away their "beauty", but women are.

Really? The OP definitely sounded like she wasn't aware of that. 

... sense the sarcasm please. 

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On 12/20/2017 at 3:38 PM, SaniyehZahra said:

Sorry for the spam everyone. Hopefully this one will be short and sweet

......is the whole male looking after female thing. I believe this may have been needed at the time when the quran was revealed, but now, living in the 21st century can a woman not look after herself? While it is nice that islam gives this protection from a male, are women not independant enough to look after themselves? 

I also just can’t understand the whole head covering (now before i get attacked, i wore it too, with my own will). I don’t see how wearing a cloth on your head makes you modest. I also find it a bit unfair that women have to wear it while men don’t. A lot of people have said that it is because a  womans hair and neck is a sign of beauty. But now a days, couldnt we say the same for men as well? 

I see a lot of people make that mistake. Religion and life is not limited to the developed world. In the west you may find many women who may not depend on a man, but elsewhere the majority still relies on the income of men. But even in the west, you often need a man to at least help you cover some necessary expenses or help you take care of any children you might share. 

Whenever a scholar speaks of beauty or protection with regards to the hijab, i roll my eyes. I absolutely hate the candy wrapper metaphor. It's degrading. Many women look much better in a hijab, and many women are still hurt regardless of their hijab. I like something my father once pointed out "you wear a hijab before God in prayer." Why do i need to hide my beauty or protect myself from God?... I don't. Becuase (imo) that isn't its purpose. The hijab identifies you as a muslim (like stated in the quran), a woman who has submitted to God. It's a banner you wear. A duty God assigned you, women, not men. 

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Islam doesn't obligate women to be looked after - it obligates fathers and husbands to care for their daughters and wives. It doesn't in any way diminish the capability of women. I'm trying to understand why you take issue with this. Please explain what is the problem with men being obligated to protect and provide for women.

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I recommend you to read this book

its not mainly about Hijab but explains shia Islam view about women by explaining the stories & virtues of Lady Fatima(as) the daughter of Prophet Mohammad (pbu) & wife of Imam Ali(as) & mother of all Imams(as) the true Mother of all [muslim]believers I hope that it will provide you a better Image about Women in Islam.:muslima:

https://www.al-islam.org/fatima-is-fatima-dr-ali-shariati

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3 hours ago, yusur317 said:

I absolutely hate the candy wrapper metaphor. It's degrading. 

I think hijab is definitely about modesty, but I agree with you on that part 

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On 20/12/2017 at 3:38 PM, SaniyehZahra said:

 

I don’t see how wearing a cloth on your head makes you modest. 

This is something that is repeated in Islamic lectures a lot : hijab is not only the clothing on your head. It refers also to behaviour in modesty, "averting your gaze", etc. The same goes for men. They should stop staring at women if they look sexy etc and behave modestly. 

 

On 20/12/2017 at 3:38 PM, SaniyehZahra said:

. A lot of people have said that it is because a  womans hair and neck is a sign of beauty. But now a days, couldnt we say the same for men as well? 

Yes, the parts that need to be covered for women are much more than men. Legs, hair, etc.. But are men really as beautiful? I really don't think i am being biased or showing just one point of view : women are much more beautiful than men. And men are much more [EDIT] as well. 

Hijab seeks to create an environment not related to sex at all, and people are appreciated for being people. Remember again, the Quran first talks to men and tells them to be modest and "avert their gaze" . 

Edited by Hassan-
removed inappropriate comment

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3 hours ago, Mohammed-Mehdi said:

(Does somebody know how to find the original video posted by AhlulBayt TV ? ) 

Salam. There are many videos on AhlulBayt TV about hijab with the host Zahra Alawi. See this list of youtube videos:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ahlulbayt+tv+hijab+Zahra+Alawi

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Salam alaikum, @SaniyehZahra

Sister I can see where you're coming from, but lets put it this way:

I do not judge girls who don't wear scarves and I hate seeing people who judge, but this is my point of view about the Hijab:

The hijab is what defines beauty in a Muslim woman, it protects us and shields us from the lust of men. In Islam, women are more valuable than men. The hijab doesn't degrade women, it puts them on a higher status, higher than men. Its not just about modesty. 

I understood more about the purpose of hijab when I heard one of Muhammad Ali's interviews(may Allah swt grant him jannah al firdous). He said that everything God made valuable in this world He made it hard for people to find such as gold, gems, diamonds etc.. they are deeply covered and buried in the ground and are protected. But we're obviously more valuable than some golds or diamonds, shouldn't we be covered too?

If you're a shia or sunni, wouldn't you want to follow the Rasullulah (sawas)'s daughter Fatima al Zahra(as) and how she would cover, or following the wives of the Prophet?

Fee- amanillah

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23 hours ago, notme said:

Islam doesn't obligate women to be looked after - it obligates fathers and husbands to care for their daughters and wives. It doesn't in any way diminish the capability of women. I'm trying to understand why you take issue with this. Please explain what is the problem with men being obligated to protect and provide for women.

Sister, could you explain why the two things you described are different? Mainly that according to your comment the obligation of women being looked after is not the same thing as men being required to take care of their wives, mothers, and daughters.

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9 minutes ago, Guest Account Ali said:

Sister, could you explain why the two things you described are different? Mainly that according to your comment the obligation of women being looked after is not the same thing as men being required to take care of their wives, mothers, and daughters.

A person being obligated to offer food to the poor does not mean the poor person is obligated to take the food. 

A woman is not required to be cared for. She can be capable of caring for herself and she can choose to use her own resources to meet her needs. 

A man is obligated to care for his wife or daughter, even if she is able to care for herself, unless she says to him "please let me provide for my own needs, as a charity to you."

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On 12/21/2017 at 11:23 PM, 3wliya_maryam said:

Salam alaikum, @SaniyehZahra

Sister I can see where you're coming from, but lets put it this way:

I do not judge girls who don't wear scarves and I hate seeing people who judge, but this is my point of view about the Hijab:

The hijab is what defines beauty in a Muslim woman, it protects us and shields us from the lust of men. In Islam, women are more valuable than men. The hijab doesn't degrade women, it puts them on a higher status, higher than men. Its not just about modesty. 

I understood more about the purpose of hijab when I heard one of Muhammad Ali's interviews(may Allah swt grant him jannah al firdous). He said that everything God made valuable in this world He made it hard for people to find such as gold, gems, diamonds etc.. they are deeply covered and buried in the ground and are protected. But we're obviously more valuable than some golds or diamonds, shouldn't we be covered too?

If you're a shia or sunni, wouldn't you want to follow the Rasullulah (sawas)'s daughter Fatima al Zahra(as) and how she would cover, or following the wives of the Prophet?

Fee- amanillah

Listen. This is everything about judgement. If a Muslim guy was lazy enough to wear tight dress pants then I would judge him in the same capacity to that of a Muslim women who refuses to wear hijab.

I remember a sister once told me that women need to stop being so emotional about the subject of hijab. If a guy judges you, then take it as a means to improve your modesty. If a guy tells you to wear hijab or tells you to wear it properly, then appreciate the good advice and act on it. Even if he says to do so in a not so quite pleasant way. And if you stubbornly refuse to wear hijab then at least acknowledge that you are being sinful but you might perhaps change, instead of demanding that people should be "emotionally sensitive" to your situation. 

Then the same sister told me she would feel offended by guys who did not tell her to wear her hijab properly. Since we as Muslims have a duty to remind each other of Islamic obligations, even if we sometimes may not be the best advice givers. As the old adage goes "look at the message, not the messenger".

Also brother, in one of your paragraphs you managed to be sexist towards men and even managed to fetishize Muslim women. I am not sure about others, but I don't tolerate either attitude. 

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women in the 21st century are paid less than men in the liberal free world!

Women in the 21st century, even in high positions, face harassment and misogyny , in the liberal free world

Women in the 21st century are taken advantage of, selling their body, or scapegoating their social life by being wage slaves, avoiding to marry so she can get higher position and more salary. A state that no man will want. Every man wants to have a family, a social life and reasonable job that pays according to efforts.

A woman in 21st century is target for consumer marketing to products she used to create, more efficiently and more healthy, in her kitchen.

women  in past centuries did work next to the man in farms, in crafts and in trades. It is NOT a character of 21st century. 21st century character is women abandoning to have family ties, making their own families and running after lies, thinking they are smart doing so.

As I said always: women are the greatest enemies to their own gender.

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6 hours ago, notme said:

A person being obligated to offer food to the poor does not mean the poor person is obligated to take the food. 

A woman is not required to be cared for. She can be capable of caring for herself and she can choose to use her own resources to meet her needs. 

A man is obligated to care for his wife or daughter, even if she is able to care for herself, unless she says to him "please let me provide for my own needs, as a charity to you."

Concerning your last paragraph, could you provide for me something from a scholar saying it is okay for a wife to do that towards her husband? A mother towards her husband or son? A daughter towards her father? 

And your first and second paragraph is more or less obvious. Even if you say that Muslim women must be cared for it does not mean she is incapable of being autonomous. Sort of like how an elderly grandmother can insist to high heaven she is capable of taking care of herself fully. And she may be able to. But does that mean she ought to be left alone then? That on some level in this case there is a hidden obligation to take care of this elderly grandmother despite her ability to be autonomous? 

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@Guest Account Ali nothing I've said was intended to imply that men are not obligated to care for their wives and daughters under all circumstances. 

If a woman has her own wealth, through whatever means, she is allowed to use it to support her family if she wishes. She is not obligated, ever, even if her husband is poor. If she chooses to, it is an act of charity on her part. 

I really don't see any disagreement between your point of view and mine in this topic, and I'm baffled as to why you are arguing with me. 

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4 hours ago, notme said:

@Guest Account Ali nothing I've said was intended to imply that men are not obligated to care for their wives and daughters under all circumstances. 

If a woman has her own wealth, through whatever means, she is allowed to use it to support her family if she wishes. She is not obligated, ever, even if her husband is poor. If she chooses to, it is an act of charity on her part. 

I really don't see any disagreement between your point of view and mine in this topic, and I'm baffled as to why you are arguing with me. 

Sister, I asked you a question. Since you stated "A man is obligated to care for his wife or daughter, even if she is able to care for herself, unless she says to him "please let me provide for my own needs, as a charity to you."

I ain't no grammarian, but from what I can tell you are implying there are some situations she can forego being maintained. So I was curious to know what these situatioins are concerning various subjects. Mainly that of a mother, daughter, and wife. 

Again sister, my reply has nothing to do with disputing a woman's ability to support. But I was merely curious why you seem to make such a stark contrast between two similar ideas. Since you said "Islam doesn't obligate women to be looked after - it obligates fathers and husbands to care for their daughters and wives. It doesn't in any way diminish the capability of women. I'm trying to understand why you take issue with this. Please explain what is the problem with men being obligated to protect and provide for women". And I am trying to explain to you that the concept of a person needing to be looked after is the same thing as the responsibility of the caretaker or maintainer towards this same person. And I was attempting to explain this to you. 

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1 minute ago, Guest Account Ali said:

And I am trying to explain to you that the concept of a person needing to be looked after is the same thing as the responsibility of the caretaker or maintainer towards this same person. And I was attempting to explain this to you. 

I was simply pointing out that a man's obligation to maintain his wife or daughter requires nothing of her. Even if she chooses to use her wealth to maintain her family it is allowed. This obligation is on a man, not on a woman. 

The OP was concerned about "the whole male looking after female thing" and I told her to not worry about it, it's not an issue for her to concern herself over. 

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On 22/12/2017 at 7:25 AM, yusur317 said:

Whenever a scholar speaks of beauty or protection with regards to the hijab, i roll my eyes. I absolutely hate the candy wrapper metaphor. It's degrading. Many women look much better in a hijab, and many women are still hurt regardless of their hijab. I like something my father once pointed out "you wear a hijab before God in prayer." Why do i need to hide my beauty or protect myself from God?... I don't. Becuase (imo) that isn't its purpose. The hijab identifies you as a muslim (like stated in the quran), a woman who has submitted to God. It's a banner you wear. A duty God assigned you, women, not men. 

O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.

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"Within many cultures, women may feel obligated to complete household tasks themselves, working a 'second-shift' at home, even when they can afford to pay someone to help," the study authors wrote. "In recent decades, women have made gains, such as improved access to education, but their life satisfaction has declined; increasing uptake of timesaving services may provide a pathway toward reducing the harmful effects of women’s second-shift."

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/spending-money-save-time-may-increase-life-satisfaction-194804934--abc-news-wellness.html

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6 hours ago, Guest Account Ali said:

Listen. This is everything about judgement. If a Muslim guy was lazy enough to wear tight dress pants then I would judge him in the same capacity to that of a Muslim women who refuses to wear hijab.

I remember a sister once told me that women need to stop being so emotional about the subject of hijab. If a guy judges you, then take it as a means to improve your modesty. If a guy tells you to wear hijab or tells you to wear it properly, then appreciate the good advice and act on it. Even if he says to do so in a not so quite pleasant way. And if you stubbornly refuse to wear hijab then at least acknowledge that you are being sinful but you might perhaps change, instead of demanding that people should be "emotionally sensitive" to your situation. 

Then the same sister told me she would feel offended by guys who did not tell her to wear her hijab properly. Since we as Muslims have a duty to remind each other of Islamic obligations, even if we sometimes may not be the best advice givers. As the old adage goes "look at the message, not the messenger".

Also brother, in one of your paragraphs you managed to be sexist towards men and even managed to fetishize Muslim women. I am not sure about others, but I don't tolerate either attitude. 

Salam,

Firstly, I am a female

Secondly, I'm only stating my opinion about the hijab not judging

Thirdly, I apologize; I didn't mean to be sexist; in Islam women and males are meant to be treated equally. But that interview of Muhammad Ali really made me understood the meaning of hijab

Jazakallah khair

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19 hours ago, Sumerian said:

O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.

يٰۤـاَيُّهَا النَّبِىُّ قُلْ لِّاَزۡوَاجِكَ وَبَنٰتِكَ وَنِسَآءِ الۡمُؤۡمِنِيۡنَ يُدۡنِيۡنَ عَلَيۡهِنَّ مِنۡ جَلَابِيۡبِهِنَّ ؕ ذٰ لِكَ اَدۡنٰٓى اَنۡ يُّعۡرَفۡنَ فَلَا يُؤۡذَيۡنَ ؕ وَكَانَ اللّٰهُ غَفُوۡرًا رَّحِيۡمًا‏

The translation you mentioned refers to the act of distinguishing a muslim woman from a slave woman specifically, rather than any non-muslim woman (as explained by many scholars- e.g. muhammad ibn jarir al-tabari). This would mean, the prophet and our God forbid the abuse of muslim women but expressed no opposition to the abuse and molestation of slave women (at the time this verse was revealed). This would cause a vulnerable people further susceptibility and harm. Does it seem like something our God would encourage? The only crime most slaves committed was/is being born. So does it sound just to be exposed to extended abuse? With the uncertainity of consequences- at the very least- men are more likely to hesitate. "If this is a free woman and I'm caught, my life is on the line. I can't tell, is she free?" This verse was not meant to make molestation/abuse easier for perverts to commit. I liked Fakhr al-Din al-Razi's understanding "so that men do not seek illicit relations with free muslim women". God blessed us with logic and a rationale. To me, this tafsir makes more sense. 

It is true, if you'r in a hijab, non-muslim men are (only) less likely to approach you. But you're still approached by muslim men; men without good intentions. 

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@yusur317 Salam both free & slave women protected by Islam in same manner but for slave women consider lesser punishments because in many situations had to obey their masters but free women get rewards & punishments  justicly but women of prophet had double Rewards &punishments for their actions.

 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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