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In the Name of God بسم الله

Bible as tafsir for Quran?

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There is no one here who believes it wise to interprent the parts of the wise reading which need clarification by using the teachings of Isa (a.s). My argument is that the the teachings and sunnah of Isa the one strenghtened with the Holy Spirit has been better preserved then the sunnah of the praised merciful last Prophet. I think hadith were written after 100 years while Bible after 30 years.

Lets debate in sanity, understanding, with compassion in the name of the most forgiving

Could you explain the question a little more clearly? I'm having a little trouble understanding what your argument is. salam

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Salam dear Jafar

Muslim use ahadith to understand for example what it means to be moderate in everything. I find it good to use the Bible to explain what moderation in everything is because it was recorded early in relation to ahadith.

May God give you whatever you need most

:salam:

Well technically since the bible is not fully authentic we should better not use it.

However it can in some cases explain us some Quranic anecdotes (first that comes to my mind is Al Manna wal Salwa which I would never have understood without the Bible).

By the way, why limit this approach to the teachings of Jesus and New Testament only ?

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Correct both use of ahadith and Bible is wiser. Ahadith are not fully authenthic still we use them but not if they go against the Quran.

:salam:

Well if you are going to use the Bible that way, I think it would be foolhardy to just use the New Testament alone as a tafsir for the Qur'an. Then again, I wouldn't even use the Bible as tafsir anyway, seeing as it had books taken out of it and has been translated through numerous languages. Plus there are numerous translations of the Bible in English, so the question now is which Bible? If I were you, I'd stick with the Islamic sources to be on the safe side

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I would most like to understand the Quran based on itself and use only other sources to explain things like how to perform salah. Its just everyone tells me read tafsir first. The Christians told me they have found Bibles in greek from around 40 years after Isa (a.s) death. I feel smarter after talking.

May God love you when you feel undeserving of his love

:ws: 

Oh, I assumed you have already read the Qur'an. Whatever you do, don't read tafsir first. Either read the Qur'an first or read the Qur'an along with tafsir like I did. Really, any sources for the claim about the Bible? Because I don't think I recall hearing about that in the news recently. Tafsir is for a more in-depth understanding of the ayahs in relation to salah, zakat, Hajj, tawhid and sawm. It will be no good to you if you haven't read the Qur'an. It will be like driving a race car without learning how to drive

May Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى guide to us to the Straight Path.

P.S. What is this Messianic Islam?   

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There is a thread in Christian/Islam forum called can Christians prove the Bible has not been changed. There they give sources. I think they are experts at their own history and muslims at their own. 

Tafsir I find good for serious students those who are big leaders. Messianic Islam is just that you believe Jesus (a.s) was sinfree, had the best intentions of all men and that therefore his name title Messiah (King) means he is the best of all prophets and humans. It means also that his mission was especially reserved for saving people from shirk therefore the name Messiah (saviour). 

May God give us judgement free of shirk and mercy towards the ignorant

I can not edit old post so I post this new one. Messianic Islam is also that you interprent the verses of Quran who say you did not kill Messiah instead God exalted him by raising him up to himself by interprenting the word kill as intention to severely humilate Jesus (a.s) also that he is alive since he is in Heaven. The Jews wanted to humiliate Jesus (a.s) by crucifing him and they tought he will die like all other humans.

May God protect us from intemperance

Ok, I see but isn't this already a belief of ours? That Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى raised Isa (as) into the heavens and put him in the ghaybah until Isa's (as) awaited return is decreed while the Jews thought they killed him but they didn't kill him? I'm afraid I still don't quite understand what Messianic Islam is exactly?

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I think the biggest difference is that he is the best prophet therefore King spiritually also belief that he died on the cross as a martyr but this did not humilate him or make him dead instead this exalted him since he died a martyr and is now in heaven. 

God bless you and may the Angels praise Allah in your presence

you are perhaps the most interesting person i've ever seen on this site. Messianic Islam sounds very interesting but I had no idea it was actually a thing, I might just look into it and see where it's derivatives may come from, 

may God keep you on the right path and show you continuous guidance in all sectors. 

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There is no one here who believes it wise to interprent the parts of the wise reading which need clarification by using the teachings of Isa (a.s). My argument is that the the teachings and sunnah of Isa the one strenghtened with the Holy Spirit has been better preserved then the sunnah of the praised merciful last Prophet. I think hadith were written after 100 years while Bible after 30 years.

Lets debate in sanity, understanding, with compassion in the name of the most forgiving

Sorry but to compare the hadith to the Christian New Testament is absurd.  The gospels were written by unknown authors with a theological bent not eyewitnesses, contradict themselves at every step, and the authenticity is dubious at best.  Compared to the Bible, the body of hadith is vast and we have a  complex system for tracing the chain of narration and verifying the authenticity of the hadith.

Moreover the Islamic tradition is far richer and full of wisdom.  While I respect the Bible, its moral teachings are rather simple and uninspiring.  There's nothing really revolutionary in the gospels. 

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This discussion is going on, and nobody is caring about this part of OP's basic argument:

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I think hadith were written after 100 years while Bible after 30 years.

Who said that our hadiths were written after 100 years?! The sunni hadiths, of course, were written 90 years after the holy prophet, and  with the help of Jews and greedy storytellers!

Shi'i hadith, on the other hand, was nothing like that. Imam Ali (a) and Lady Fatima (s) had books. Imam Ali's was a complete tafseer, with all the hadiths of Holy Prophet, the reasons of revelation, the order of revelation, and related laws explained by the Holy Prophet. It was handed over through generations of Ahlulbayt. Imams would read from this book to their followers. Imam Ali's followers were writing hadith in private. Imam Ali (a) himself told them not only to write, but also how to write. He taught them calligraphy and basics of Arabic grammar (sciences that were completely new and strange back then). Actually, the first person to work on Arabic grammar also known as "Sarf & Nahw" was Abu al-Aswad al-Du'ali  who was one of the students of Imam Ali and did this because of Imam's order. 

Even in the times of Imam Baqir (a) and Imam Sadiq (a), when Shia was free to write and learn hadiths, our Imams would frequently connect their chain of transmitters to the Holy Prophet (s). Therefore we have numerous hadiths from the Sunnah of the Holy Prophet (s). 

I wonder how our sunni brothers would claim that their Sunnah and hadiths are authentic, and they are hardly accepting the hadiths from Imam Sadiq (a) and Imam Baqir (a).

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:salam:

The tafseer Nazm al-Durar fi Tanasub al-Ayaat wa al-Suwar (نظم الدرر في تناسب الآيات والسور) of al-Biqa'i, uses the Bible heavily - one of the few tafseer books to do so. He even wrote a treatise titled al-Aqwal al-qawimah fi hukm al-naql min al-kutub al-qadimah, defending his usage of using old scriptures in his tafseer.

Some works one can read in English on his tafseer are: A Fifteenth-Century Muslim Hebraist: Al-Biqa'i and His Defense of Using the Bible to Interpret the Qur'an and the book In Defense of the Bible by Walid Saleh.

Wassalam

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I find it most humble beneficent and merciful to never preach about my interpretation of Islam. I pray to God to hinder me from ever making this sin again. Forgive me dear readers. Allways remember that I allways have been a habitual big sinner and still am.

May God makes us righteous and merciful towards those we love most

Salam,

So you want to use books that were written before the Quran as a tafsir about the Quran?

I think I lost you.

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Also the past years I have been almost unable to cry over anything and Napoleon Hill said a human demon can not cry. 

For me it is much easier to be gentle over the internet then real life so I would treat you differently if you met me in person.

Same here, except once when I was thinking about Fatima Zahra (sa) and her dearh, I almost did cry but I didn't because everyone was asleep and I didn't want to wake anybody up. You just need to get in touch with yourself and develop yourself spiritually. When you do that, your feelings will become more tune in. 

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On 5/24/2016 at 5:17 PM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Plus there are numerous translations of the Bible in English, so the question now is which Bible?

All Bibles, regardless of language and translation, agree that Jesus taught us to love God and love others, including our enemies.  They all demonstrate that Jesus died for our sins and rose from the dead to give us evidence that he was who he claimed to be.  If I read the Quran in a different recitation or translation, will the message be different?  

 

On 5/26/2016 at 4:28 PM, Faruk said:

So you want to use books that were written before the Quran as a tafsir about the Quran?

The Quran says for Christians to judge by the Gospel (5:47).  Surely there's a reason the people at the time of Muhammad were supposed to do this.

 

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