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In the Name of God بسم الله

[Closed/Review]What is everyone’s problem with homosexuality?

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I will not be replying back to the OP, all of the brothers and sisters have already done that. 

But what i will say is gosh... what is the state of our children and young ones that they even ask such a question. Whose fault is it? I think unfortunately the world has really drifted into a state where many parents speak not of religion to their children, or intellectual and wisdom from Quran, rather it is just some half ass rituals and customs, children may or may not be involved - and that's it. 

I don't think it's her fault, the plain fact that she is asking is this a sin, and why, makes me think did her parents ever talk to her about religion and the issues? 

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A 1990 study published by the U.S National Institute of Health showed that male victims of male rape often question their own sexual identity as a result of the traumatic experience. https://www.ncbi.

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Salam Sister, you remind me a lot of my little sister. I have had countless arguments with her regarding homosexuality, and they end up going nowhere lol. This is my take on homosexuality: (

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2 hours ago, yasahebalzaman.313 said:

First of all you Need to calm down. I know laayla in person, she's the Sweetest person you can ever meet. And she could never disrespect or offend someone. I have read her posts and she didn't say anything disrespectful. It is you who is projecting her emotions, exaggerating and seeking drama attention. So stop embarrassing yourself.

I apologize for causing drama, and i was a bit emotionally charged last night. Laayle might be sweet in person but the way she words certain things makes her sound VERY judgemental. And i believe i am not the only person here that believes this, Also I’m not seeking attention. That is just your assumption. If i was i would have said WAY worse.

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19 hours ago, Laayla said:

Pick up the dust covered Quran in your home and read it.

@yasahebalzaman.313 did you see this? Now she might have said it with the best if intentions, but when read it sounds extremely rude,arrogant and judgemental

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2 hours ago, yasahebalzaman.313 said:

Sayed sistani ordered once in one of his rulings that the gays should be executed.

As for this i question whether this is 100 percent true. That is absolutely horrible. How can anyone have a right to execute anyone. Of course, homosexuality is a great sin,but who is anyone to KILL them.

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15 minutes ago, Afsaneh14 said:

As for this i question whether this is 100 percent true. That is absolutely horrible. How can anyone have a right to execute anyone. Of course, homosexuality is a great sin,but who is anyone to KILL them.

That is the reason of sister @Laayla comment.

How can anyone have a right to execute anyone? That is a great question indeed. You need to see its answer in Holy Book, if you're a Muslim.

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25 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

That is the reason of sister @Laayla comment.

How can anyone have a right to execute anyone? That is a great question indeed. You need to see its answer in Holy Book, if you're a Muslim.

I understant in Islam execution is permissible in certain contexts, for example war. I am a very ignorant person when it comes to the Quran, and my Allah forgive me for this. But i have never come across anything in the quran which mentions killing ALL gay people. Arent there better ways? Like trying to guide thoe people back, or speak to them? 

I am not completely sure on this, but didn’t prophet Lut offer his daughters to the homosexuals? If all gays were meant to be killed, i’m assuming he wouldn’t want his daughters to marry them

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2 hours ago, yasahebalzaman.313 said:

the gays were 80-90% spreading in society, and after the enforcement of the rule they got to 5-10%.

But how do you know gays were just lying andhiding (like some sort of gay taqiya) and the statistics obviously can’t show this.

I also question the authenticity of gay being completely natural. I think not all cases of homosexuality are genuine, but surely by enforcing such radical rules, you are just suppressing gay feelings. Not curing them

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2 hours ago, Afsaneh14 said:

I understant in Islam execution is permissible in certain contexts, for example war. I am a very ignorant person when it comes to the Quran, and my Allah forgive me for this. But i have never come across anything in the quran which mentions killing ALL gay people. Arent there better ways? Like trying to guide thoe people back, or speak to them? 

I am not completely sure on this, but didn’t prophet Lut offer his daughters to the homosexuals? If all gays were meant to be killed, i’m assuming he wouldn’t want his daughters to marry them

https://www.al-islam.org/greater-sins-volume-1-ayatullah-sayyid-abdul-husayn-dastghaib-shirazi/eleventh-greater-sin-sodomy

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People with even a basic sense of humanity will have a problem understanding and easily accepting the extreme punishments for homosexuality, especially since we probably know functioning, contributing people in our lives somewhere, who are gay.  It is something that is real to us, not an unrealizable story used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson.

Punishment for Homosexuality:

Since sodomy is a greater crime than adultery and its evils are worse, the punishment for sodomy is also more severe than that of adultery according to the Islamic law. Islam prescribes capital punishment for the active as well as the passive partner in the crime. If both are major and sane, both of them have to be killed. The active partner is beheaded with the sword or killed by stoning or burnt alive or thrown from a height with the hands and the legs tied. These are the ways prescribed for punishing the criminal, but it is at the discretion of the Judge to determine the method. Similarly, the method adopted for the death of the passive partner is also determined by the Qazi. https://www.al-islam.org/greater-sins-volume-1-ayatullah-sayyid-abdul-husayn-dastghaib-shirazi/eleventh-greater-sin-sodomy

According to Amir ul-Mu’minīn ‘Ali (a.s.), a person who has committed this sin must also be burnt after being killed.

It is natural for someone to question this; there would be something wrong with someone who would not seek further explanation.  It is important to question and critique anything in our world, including Islam, that appears to be cruel.  Trying to shut someone up who is confused by this by implying or stating that they are less of a Muslim will make things worse. By demeaning that person and talking about them in a harmful way, we have created our own sin. If teachings about homosexuality practice and punishment are clearly just with a complete explanation, why the animosity towards someone questioning this?  

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Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum 

The majority of muslims have little to no knowledge of fiqh, aqeeda, or their marja's risala.  

How many muslim families left their home countries seeking a better life, with aspirations to live in the west and not following up with their children with their deen?  This has resulted in loss of faith and becoming agnostics.  How many parents know that their migration is HARAM if they know this will result their children to be non beleivers?  I know of a hundred cases.  Worldwide it is in the millions.   

It will be no shock where a percentage of shias will be against Imam Mahdi because of issues like we are discussing now.  Some only ask for return of Imam as mere lip service and do not do so from the bottom of their hearts.  There is a lot of work to be done from jihad al nafis, to our families, and the community.

Thank you sister @yasahebalzaman.313  for your kind words.  God bless you sister, Insh'Allah I live up to what you think of me.  

I wish no harm onto anyone.  As you already know, practicing our faith before the appearance of Imam is more valuable to Allah then after Imam's appearance.  It is everyone's responsibility to give some effort to learn about their religion and not be consumed in hub al dunya, the love of this world. I encourage people to read, ask, and research.  It just upsets me when muslims are critical of the punishments God established on those who practice sin openly and cause corruption on earth. This is the lowest of iman.  When I address this issue and point it out, I'm doing my obligation.  I will not glamorize nor will I come to acceptance of the greater sin of homosexuality.  

Allah guides who He wills.

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah 

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1 hour ago, Laayla said:

will not glamorize nor will I come to acceptance of the greater sin of homosexuality.  

NO ONE is asking you to glamorize ir accept it. Again,the OP has asked a question, and most people are trying their hardest to answer it in a fair and peaceful way, NOT straight on generalizing an entire group of people. Somehow, you have gone from generalising all homosexuals to basically generalising the god knows how many millions of muslims that live in the west. Hats off!

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4 hours ago, YAli said:

I don't think it's her fault, the plain fact that she is asking is this a sin, and why, makes me think did her parents ever talk to her about religion and the issues? 

First of all, yes my parents did talk about such issues. They condemned them greatly. The word gay itself was considered a cuss word when i was growing up.

secondly, does Islam not let us ask questions?

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Consider it from a social perspective.

Gayness is desire, nothing else.

Hetrosexual is desire BUT allows a future. AKA babies for the next generation of hamsters.

Ladies, I am sure you have your chores to attend to, stop arguing, it does not prove anything, not even thine faith.:pushup:

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Just to clarify, I am trying my absolute hardest to be as rational as possible.

i agree with points made that it is against family structure. It makes sense, as of course to raise children a man and woman are needed etc. I understand this argument

I also know that of course “born this way” isnt the only factor. There is hardly ever just ine factor contributing to complex issues like homosexuality.

I do have an idea now of why it is frowned upon, from both an islamic and secular perspective. However I am more than disgusted at the barbarity that certain muslims have incited towards homosexuals. Again, it takes me back to my initial question. Why is it a greater sin, and not just a normal one

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A lot of people compare homosexuality to paedophilia. However, I am referring to consented homosexual relations: a relationship in which both parties of the same sex, who are both of a mature age, have feelings for one another. It is different to paedophilia. 

The one argument I accept is the comparison with incest. But with incest, children tend to be incredibly deformed physically and mentally. But with homosexuality, there aren’t even any children, so it’s kind of a win-win situation i guess:pushup2:

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12 minutes ago, monad said:

Gayness is desire, nothing else.

Hetrosexual is desire BUT allows a future. AKA babies for the next generation of hamsters.

Living in the 21st century, and that too on an incredibly overpopulated planet, is reproduction REALLY still a main priority? Of course, i understand from an islamic perspective having children is important etc

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23 minutes ago, monad said:

Consider it from a social perspective.

Gayness is desire, nothing else.

Hetrosexual is desire BUT allows a future. AKA babies for the next generation of hamsters.

Ladies, I am sure you have your chores to attend to, stop arguing, it does not prove anything, not even thine faith.:pushup:

No chores, just a video to share.  Goodnight brother.  

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah 

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Hadith about lesbians

It is narrated from the narrator of the previous Hadith from his father from Ali ibn al-Qasim from Ja'far ibn Muhammad from al- Husayn ibn Ziyad from Ya'qub ibn Ja'far who has said the following:
 



"Once, a man asked abu 'Abd Allah, or abu Ibrahim, 'Alayhim al-Salam, about women who practice  
women homosexuality (lesbianism). He (the Imam) was leaning, he sat straight and said, 'They are  
condemned, the one on her as well underneath her until she moves out of her clothes, the rider as well  
as the one being rode. Allah, most Blessed, most High, the angels and those who possess divine  
authority condemned them, as well as I and all remaining in the backs of men and wombs of women  
condemned them. It by Allah is greater fornication. No, by Allah there is no repentance for them. May  
Allah destroy Laqis, daughter of Satan who brought it.' The man said that it has come from people of  
Iraq. He (the Imam) said, 'No, by Allah, it was in the time of the Messenger of Allah, O Allah, grant  
compensation to Muhammad and his family worthy of their services to Your cause, before Iraq was  




there and about them the Messenger of Allah has said, 'Allah has condemned transvestites (men who  
pretend to be like women and women who pretend to be like men).'"  


 

Share... Chapter: 188, Hadith: 10173, Number: 4 
 

http://www.fourshiabooks.com/hadith/al-kafi/19/188/4

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Why is bestiality wrong? What is everyone's problem with it?

"And do not approach unlawful sexual intercourse. Indeed, it is ever a corruption and is evil as a way." (17:32)

"And leave what your Lord has created for you as mates? But you are a people transgressing."(25:166)

Sex was not mean to be between two people of the same sex. This act is a form of rebellion against God/His Will. It is a corruption, a perversion, people are abandoning the natural function, and going the opposite way.

As to why it is seen as such a great sin that it is considered a crime : 

The people of Lot were not punished because some people practiced homosexuality,  but the whole city were indulged in those deviant acts, even trying to rape the Prophet. Now,you see the sharia, which demands for witnesses for someone to be guilty, which is really not possible unless people are out [EDIT] in the streets. All this leads to the conclusion that homosexuality is so condemned only because it damages society as a whole rather than the individual himself ; it is a crime if it goes open or public, we want people to keep their sins in private.

The problem that you see is the punishment of hudud which apparently tells to throw people off of buildings. First of all, Quran says that it is a crime, but it does not assign any punishment, especially something ridiculous as killing. While i doubt that the hadith from which this conclusion came is true, you should note the fact that the punishments of hudud are mostly deterrents for potential criminals, when there was no law enforcement or prison to keep criminals. This has changed in the modern era, and I think the crimes remain the same, we should follow the policy of the Prophet(s.a.w) : "Ward off the hudud from the Muslims as much as you all can...For it is better for the authority to err in mercy than to err in punishment."

Rather than killing people like maniacs, we need to offer help to people like them. 

As for the barbarians, they are ignorant and narrow minded, with no sense of sympathy or shame, or humanity at all. They are even random people that act self-righteous and think they should shoot gay people in the west, those are just plain retarded psychopaths.

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Of course there are "bigger issues", but one cannot be apathetic to any form of evil, big or small. Remember the story of the people of the Sabbath. There were those who desecrated it, those who didn't care, and those who condemned it; only the third group was saved. Homosexuality is one of those things that you need to at least reject in your heart, at least because Allah hates it.

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9 hours ago, yasahebalzaman.313 said:

Sister, you have brought many points in your post that are debatable.

The very reason why homosexuality is attacked in islam because it is a social Disease, and if you don't treat a disease it will spread. Sayed sistani ordered once in one of his rulings that the gays should be executed. Before this ruling came out, the gays were 80-90% spreading in society, and after the enforcement of the rule they got to 5-10%.

Why do you think westerners pay billions of dollars on TV-shows, commercials, movies, advertisement in order to spread this one message? Because they know the truth just like us they know that is it spreadable.

If you place a heterosexual among gays for a year, there is a 99% chance for them to become gay. I've seen it many times before.

Now if you want to know whether this Mental problem is natural or nurtured that is another discussion entirely. But you can say that it is both, and if it's natural it Doesn't mean that the causes of it is God, not at all.

أَنَّ لِكُلِّ نَفْس مَا كَسَبَتْ , وَعَلَيْهَا مَا اكْتَسَبَتْ

''It will have [the consequence of] what [good] it has gained, and it will bear [the consequence of] what [evil] it has earned''

إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يَظْلِمُ النَّاسَ شَيْئًا وَلَٰكِنَّ النَّاسَ أَنفُسَهُمْ يَظْلِمُونَ

''Indeed, Allah does not wrong the people at all, but it is the people who are wronging themselves.''

 

1 - That specific ruling had to be removed from the website because death squads started to prosecute gays (or people who were suspected to be gays). People were indiscriminately killed under suspicion by those "divine", "righteous" and "just" commandments, also known as hatred. It is not Islam nor the intention of the ayatollah for this death squads to appear, it is homophobia. I haven't seen any death squads chasing the thieves that keep ruining the country. Moreover, according to narrations in Al Kafi (Vol5, chapter on Male Homosexuality) where a group of friends report one of their friends for being gay, no prosecution took place nor was ordered by the prophet. It was said it is NOT a disease because the person can still choose whether to act on it or not (meaning you don't forcibly rape men our of your control, something for which you wouldn't be judged if it was true).

2 - Yes, historically the social strategy to spread the acceptance of homosexuality has started in TV and Hollywood. Today, even though this strategy is still apparent, homosexuality has visibility because it is also accepted, as any other social minority (keeping in mind there are 2%-5% of population who identify as homosexual), and thus apparent in society. I see many gay couples in the streets that aren't next to any TV camera. It is just reality, and this also happens in arabic and muslim countries in a more discrete manner. Even according to historical records, there were gays and transsexual groups in early islamic societies (during the time of the prophet) who were never prosecuted. It was actually normal in al Andalus, where male harems where commonly found in luxurious houses. It is just truth, and those societies never ended up being devoured by homosexuality, because it just had place in privacy and they suffered no prosecution.

3 - If you place a homosexual among heterosexuals, he doesn't change. "Curing" homosexuality is still a mystery without solution, and I wish it was as simple as living with heterosexuals. Gay people are not walking spreadable diseases the same way heterosexuals aren't the "cure".

And Allah knows best.

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http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=if04g01

This is a secular argument for why it should be discouraged.

Quote

1. Children hunger for their biological parents.

Homosexual couples using in vitro fertilization (IVF) or surrogate mothers deliberately create a class of children who will live apart from their mother or father. Yale Child Study Center psychiatrist Kyle Pruett reports that children of IVF often ask their single or lesbian mothers about their fathers, asking their mothers questions like the following:"Mommy, what did you do with my daddy?" "Can I write him a letter?" "Has he ever seen me?" "Didn't you like him? Didn't he like me?" Elizabeth Marquardt reports that children of divorce often report similar feelings about their non-custodial parent, usually the father.

Kyle Pruett, Fatherneed (Broadway Books, 2001) 204.

Elizabeth Marquardt, The Moral and Spiritual Lives of Children of Divorce. Forthcoming.

2. Children need fathers.

If same-sex civil marriage becomes common, most same-sex couples with children would be lesbian couples. This would mean that we would have yet more children being raised apart from fathers. Among other things, we know that fathers excel in reducing antisocial behavior and delinquency in boys and sexual activity in girls.

What is fascinating is that fathers exercise a unique social and biological influence on their children. For instance, a recent study of father absence on girls found that girls who grew up apart from their biological father were much more likely to experience early puberty and a teen pregnancy than girls who spent their entire childhood in an intact family. This study, along with David Popenoe's work, suggests that a father's pheromones influence the biological development of his daughter, that a strong marriage provides a model for girls of what to look for in a man, and gives them the confidence to resist the sexual entreaties of their boyfriends.

* Ellis, Bruce J., et al., "Does Father Absence Place Daughters at Special Risk for Early Sexual Activity and Teenage Pregnancy?" Child Development, 74:801-821.

* David Popenoe, Life Without Father (Boston: Harvard University Press, 1999).

3. Children need mothers.

Although homosexual men are less likely to have children than lesbians, homosexual men are and will be raising children. There will be even more if homosexual civil marriage is legalized. These households deny children a mother. Among other things, mothers excel in providing children with emotional security and in reading the physical and emotional cues of infants. Obviously, they also give their daughters unique counsel as they confront the physical, emotional, and social challenges associated with puberty and adolescence. Stanford psychologist Eleanor MacCoby summarizes much of this literature in her book, The Two Sexes. See also Steven Rhoads' book, Taking Sex Differences Seriously.

Eleanor MacCoby, The Two Sexes: Growing Up Apart, Coming Together (Boston: Harvard, 1998).

Steven Rhoads, Taking Sex Differences Seriously (Encounter Books, 2004).

4. Evidence on parenting by same-sex couples is inadequate.

A number of leading professional associations have asserted that there are "no differences" between children raised by homosexuals and those raised by heterosexuals. But the research in this area is quite preliminary; most of the studies are done by advocates and most suffer from serious methodological problems. Sociologist Steven Nock of the University of Virginia, who is agnostic on the issue of same-sex civil marriage, offered this review of the literature on gay parenting as an expert witness for a Canadian court considering legalization of same-sex civil marriage:

Through this analysis I draw my conclusions that 1) all of the articles I reviewed contained at least one fatal flaw of design or execution; and 2) not a single one of those studies was conducted according to general accepted standards of scientific research.

This is not exactly the kind of social scientific evidence you would want to launch a major family experiment.

Steven Nock, affidavit to the Ontario Superior Court of Justice regarding Hedy Halpern et al. University of Virginia Sociology Department (2001).

5. Evidence suggests children raised by homosexuals are more likely to experience gender and sexual disorders.

Although the evidence on child outcomes is sketchy, it does suggest that children raised by lesbians or homosexual men are more likely to experience gender and sexual disorders. Judith Stacey-- a sociologist and an advocate for same-sex civil marriage--reviewed the literature on child outcomes and found the following: "lesbian parenting may free daughters and sons from a broad but uneven range of traditional gender prescriptions." Her conclusion here is based on studies that show that sons of lesbians are less masculine and that daughters of lesbians are more masculine.

She also found that a "significantly greater proportion of young adult children raised by lesbian mothers than those raised by heterosexual mothers ... reported having a homoerotic relationship." Stacey also observes that children of lesbians are more likely to report homoerotic attractions.

Her review must be viewed judiciously, given the methodological flaws detailed by Professor Nock in the literature as a whole. Nevertheless, theses studies give some credence to conservative concerns about the effects of homosexual parenting.

Judith Stacey and Timothy Biblarz, "(How) Does the Sexual Orientation of Parents Matter?" American Sociological Review66: 159-183. See especially 168-171.

6. Same-sex "marriage" would undercut the norm of sexual fidelity within marriage.

One of the biggest threats that same-sex "marriage" poses to marriage is that it would probably undercut the norm of sexual fidelity in marriage. In the first edition of his book in defense of same-sex marriage, Virtually Normal, homosexual commentator Andrew Sullivan wrote: "There is more likely to be greater understanding of the need for extramarital outlets between two men than between a man and a woman." Of course, this line of thinking--were it incorporated into marriage and telegraphed to the public in sitcoms, magazines, and other mass media--would do enormous harm to the norm of sexual fidelity in marriage.

One recent study of civil unions and marriages in Vermont suggests this is a very real concern. More than 79 percent of heterosexual married men and women, along with lesbians in civil unions, reported that they strongly valued sexual fidelity. Only about 50 percent of gay men in civil unions valued sexual fidelity.

Esther Rothblum and Sondra Solomon, Civil Unions in the State of Vermont: A Report on the First Year. University of Vermont Department of Psychology, 2003.

David McWhirter and Andrew Mattison, The Male Couple (Prentice Hall, 1984) 252.

7. Same-sex "marriage" would further isolate marriage from its procreative purpose.

Traditionally, marriage and procreation have been tightly connected to one another. Indeed, from a sociological perspective, the primary purpose that marriage serves is to secure a mother and father for each child who is born into a society. Now, however, many Westerners see marriage in primarily emotional terms.

Among other things, the danger with this mentality is that it fosters an anti-natalist mindset that fuels population decline, which in turn puts tremendous social, political, and economic strains on the larger society. Same-sex marriage would only further undercut the procreative norm long associated with marriage insofar as it establishes that there is no necessary link between procreation and marriage.

This was spelled out in the Goodridge decision in Massachusetts, where the majority opinion dismissed the procreative meaning of marriage. It is no accident that the countries that have legalized or are considering legalizing same-sex marriage have some of the lowest fertility rates in the world. For instance, the Netherlands, Sweden, and Canada have birthrates that hover around 1.6 children per woman--well below the replacement fertility rate of 2.1.

For national fertility rates, see: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/sw.html

For more on the growing disconnect between marriage and procreation, see: http://marriage.rutgers.edu/Publications/SOOU/SOOU2003.pdf

8. Same-sex "marriage" would further diminish the expectation of paternal commitment.

The divorce and sexual revolutions of the last four decades have seriously undercut the norm that couples should get and stay married if they intend to have children, are expecting a child, or already have children. Political scientist James Q. Wilson reports that the introduction of no-fault divorce further destabilized marriage by weakening the legal and cultural meaning of the marriage contract. George Akerlof, a Nobel laureate and an economist, found that the widespread availability of contraception and abortion in the 1960s and 1970s, and the sexual revolution they enabled, made it easier for men to abandon women they got pregnant, since they could always blame their girlfriends for not using contraception or procuring an abortion.

It is plausible to suspect that legal recognition of homosexual civil marriage would have similar consequences for the institution of marriage; that is, it would further destabilize the norm that adults should sacrifice to get and stay married for the sake of their children. Why? Same-sex civil marriage would institutionalize the idea that children do not need both their mother and their father.

This would be particularly important for men, who are more likely to abandon their children. Homosexual civil marriage would make it even easier than it already is for men to rationalize their abandonment of their children. After all, they could tell themselves, our society, which affirms lesbian couples raising children, believes that children do not need a father. So, they might tell themselves, I do not need to marry or stay married to the mother of my children.

James Q. Wilson, The Marriage Problem. (Perennial, 2003) 175-177.

George A. Akerlof, Janet L. Yellen, and Michael L. Katz, "An Analysis of Out-of-Wedlock Childbearing in the United States." Quarterly Journal of Economics CXI: 277-317.

9. Marriages thrive when spouses specialize in gender-typical roles.

If same-sex civil marriage is institutionalized, our society would take yet another step down the road of de-gendering marriage. There would be more use of gender-neutral language like "partners" and--more importantly--more social and cultural pressures to neuter our thinking and our behaviors in marriage.

But marriages typically thrive when spouses specialize in gender-typical ways and are attentive to the gendered needs and aspirations of their husband or wife. For instance, women are happier when their husband earns the lion's share of the household income. Likewise, couples are less likely to divorce when the wife concentrates on childrearing and the husband concentrates on breadwinning, as University of Virginia psychologist Mavis Hetherington admits.

E. Mavis Hetherington and John Kelly, For Better or For Worse. (W.W. Norton and Co., 2002) 31.

Steven Rhoads, Taking Sex Differences Seriously (Encounter Books, 2004).

10. Women and marriage domesticate men.

Men who are married earn more, work harder, drink less, live longer, spend more time attending religious services, and are more sexually faithful. They also see their testosterone levels drop, especially when they have children in the home.

If the distinctive sexual patterns of "committed" gay couples are any indication (see above), it is unlikely that homosexual marriage would domesticate men in the way that heterosexual marriage does. It is also extremely unlikely that the biological effects of heterosexual marriage on men would also be found in homosexual marriage. Thus, gay activists who argue that same-sex civil marriage will domesticate gay men are, in all likelihood, clinging to a foolish hope. This foolish hope does not justify yet another effort to meddle with marriage.

 

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3 hours ago, SaniyehZahra said:

A lot of people compare homosexuality to paedophilia. However, I am referring to consented homosexual relations: a relationship in which both parties of the same sex, who are both of a mature age, have feelings for one another. It is different to paedophilia. 

The one argument I accept is the comparison with incest. But with incest, children tend to be incredibly deformed physically and mentally. But with homosexuality, there aren’t even any children, so it’s kind of a win-win situation i guess:pushup2:

The issue is that when Homosexual couples have children, (Adopt) the children aren't raised properly. Children need a biological father and mother, and serious mental problems can be attributed to children of same sex couples.

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By the way, I tend to reply more to arguments against homosexuality because these tend to be extremely judgemental.

Now, to reply to the OP: What is wrong with homosexuality? As a muslim facing these desires in first person, and after talking with other homosexuals (atheists, christians and muslims), I would bring the next points:

- Health problems caused by anal sex (even when both partners are clean and healthy).

- Mental impact of anal sex, commonly described as a humiliating yet addicting experience. Around 20% of gay couples don't practice it.

- Man to man relationships end up growing confusion, even affecting the way you understand your gender identity by the roles adopted in a couple, as well as affecting the possible children adopted by the couple.

- Addiction to anal sex provokes a dehumanization of sex itself. Promiscuity becomes rampant in gays, affecting the way they relate with anyone negatively. In our narrations it is said that God puts the desire of women in those men who allow to be mounted by others (referring to the increasing desire).

From my perspective, the main problem with homosexuality is anal sex and adoption. The rest heavily relies in education. I believe it is up to the people to decide whether to hold themselves and follow islamic teachings, sin and still follow islamic teachings, or leave Islam for these circumstances.

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8 minutes ago, Bakir said:

By the way, I tend to reply more to arguments against homosexuality because these tend to be extremely judgemental.

Now, to reply to the OP: What is wrong with homosexuality? As a muslim facing these desires in first person, and after talking with other homosexuals (atheists, christians and muslims), I would bring the next points:

- Health problems caused by anal sex (even when both partners are clean and healthy).

- Mental impact of anal sex, commonly described as a humiliating yet addicting experience. Around 20% of gay couples don't practice it.

- Man to man relationships end up growing confusion, even affecting the way you understand your gender identity by the roles adopted in a couple, as well as affecting the possible children adopted by the couple.

- Addiction to anal sex provokes a dehumanization of sex itself. Promiscuity becomes rampant in gays, affecting the way they relate with anyone negatively. In our narrations it is said that God puts the desire of women in those men who allow to be mounted by others (referring to the increasing desire).

From my perspective, the main problem with homosexuality is anal sex and adoption. The rest heavily relies in education. I believe it is up to the people to decide whether to hold themselves and follow islamic teachings, sin and still follow islamic teachings, or leave Islam for these circumstances.

Thank you! A secular argument for why it is bad.

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4 hours ago, SaniyehZahra said:

A lot of people compare homosexuality to paedophilia. However, I am referring to consented homosexual relations: a relationship in which both parties of the same sex, who are both of a mature age, have feelings for one another. It is different to paedophilia. 

The one argument I accept is the comparison with incest. But with incest, children tend to be incredibly deformed physically and mentally. But with homosexuality, there aren’t even any children, so it’s kind of a win-win situation i guess:pushup2:

Ok, so if the only issue against incest is deformed children, then should it be illegal for a brother and a brother, or two sisters, to engage in incest?

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9 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

Ok, so if the only issue against incest is deformed children, then should it be illegal for a brother and a brother, or two sisters, to engage in incest?

Not really.  I have not come across any strong arguments as to why incest is always immoral (Ignoring the severe birth defects).  Against homosexuality the arguments are even weaker. 

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4 hours ago, gandabacha7241 said:

Why is bestiality wrong? What is everyone's problem with it?

"And do not approach unlawful sexual intercourse. Indeed, it is ever a corruption and is evil as a way." (17:32)

"And leave what your Lord has created for you as mates? But you are a people transgressing."(25:166)

Sex was not mean to be between two people of the same sex. This act is a form of rebellion against God/His Will. It is a corruption, a perversion, people are abandoning the natural function, and going the opposite way.

As to why it is seen as such a great sin that it is considered a crime : 

The people of Lot were not punished because some people practiced homosexuality,  but the whole city were indulged in those deviant acts, even trying to rape the Prophet. Now,you see the sharia, which demands for witnesses for someone to be guilty, which is really not possible unless people are out banging in the streets. All this leads to the conclusion that homosexuality is so condemned only because it damages society as a whole rather than the individual himself ; it is a crime if it goes open or public, we want people to keep their sex in bed.

The problem that you see is the punishment of hudud which apparently tells to throw people off of buildings. While i doubt that the hadith from which this conclusion came is true, you should note the fact that the punishments of hudud are mostly deterrents for potential criminals, when there was no law enforcement or prison to keep criminals. This has changed in the modern era, and I think the crimes remain the same, we should follow the policy of the Prophet(s.a.w) : "Ward off the hudud from the Muslims as much as you all can...For it is better for the authority to err in mercy than to err in punishment."

Do these punishments not just cause people to simply just practise in hiding then?

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3 hours ago, It's me hello said:

http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=if04g01

This is a secular argument for why it should be discouraged.

 

Thank you very much. I think these arguments have been the most convincing. It took 3 posts to get to this :clap:

Edited by SaniyehZahra
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1 hour ago, Abu Hadi said:

like some European countries and the United States and the UK. What you also see in these countries is that the vast majority of the families are broken apart. Kids don't respect their parents, and parents (most not all) don't take care of their children properly, they don't teach them or attempt to bring them up with good morals and values. You won't find a society where homosexuality is common without also finding a society where families are broken apart and other sins such as adultery are also common. 

I agree western societies do tend to have many broken families and disrespectful children. But I am sure Islamic societies have just as many. Either that, we will simply never know because of the way some islamic countries run with extremely strict laws, preventing women from even having a voice

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2 hours ago, Sumerian said:

Ok, so if the only issue against incest is deformed children, then should it be illegal for a brother and a brother, or two sisters, to engage in incest?

Incest is a particular attraction to a family member, while homosexuality is an orientation. Denying the unhealthy attraction to one family member is understandable because of the literally billions of other options out there. Denying a homosexual (who cannot feel attraction towards the opposite sex) their orientation is cruel because it denies them of the whole opportunity

Edited by SaniyehZahra
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3 hours ago, Bakir said:

From my perspective, the main problem with homosexuality is anal sex and adoption.

I agree 98 percent with this. The arguments against gay adoption do make sense, and there is a bigger aids epidemic within the gay community then anywhere else. So, yes,it is much more harmful then normal unprotected sex. But if health is the only problem with this, then is it ok if it is protected? i might be wrong with this one, but I’m sure lesbians can’t really develop aids between themselves because there isn’t.... you know...

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